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Cowcaster posted:you know, like the armored vehicle that's really hard to defeat, because it can take so much punishment before it's out of commission? is that not what a tank is? That's not the definition of a video game tank, no. Just taking a bunch of punishment does not mean you're a tank in a multiplayer video game, that specifically is in reference to having abilities or stats that allow you to absorb or mitigate damage for your allies. Ogryn doesn't really have that. Enemy damage output is heavy enough that even your big health pool and damage reductions kill you quick. Ogryn with a shield is a tank. Ogryn with anything else is not.
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Dec 18, 2022 06:25
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i think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one
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Dec 18, 2022 06:26
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Cowcaster, the way you're looking at it, the Zealot is almost always a better tank than the Ogryn with their invulnerability and huge amount of self healing they can gain on top of huge toughness damage reductions compared to the ogryn, and an F ability with two charges that regains half your toughness bar.
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Dec 18, 2022 06:27
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S.J. posted:Cowcaster, the way you're looking at it, the Zealot is almost always a better tank than the Ogryn with their invulnerability and huge amount of self healing they can gain on top of huge toughness damage reductions compared to the ogryn, and an F ability with two charges that regains half your toughness bar. i was just trying to put the classes into broad strokes categories that were clearly demarcated from each other, zealot has way more stuff focused on putting out damage, including their weapon loadout. ogryn's got a lot of toughness related stuff, and their weapons focus more on knocking big crowds around and soaking up hits than actually killing things. if this were overwatch or anything like that, that'd make the former a damage guy, and the latter a tank. i'm not talking about pulling aggro or "dodge tanking" or invicibility frames or anything like that.
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Dec 18, 2022 06:32
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Cowcaster posted:you know, like the armored vehicle that's really hard to defeat, because it can take so much punishment before it's out of commission? is that not what a tank is? While I nominally am on your side here thanks to the Ogryn's HP pool, tanks mostly get disabled in one shot in real life. 
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Dec 18, 2022 06:32
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Orv posted:While I nominally am on your side here thanks to the Ogryn's HP pool, tanks mostly get disabled in one shot in real life. hush you
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Dec 18, 2022 06:32
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i'm sorry orv that i lost my temper and told you to hush
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Dec 18, 2022 06:37
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My HP pool serves one purpose: not automatically dying to gunfire in .2 seconds when I can't hide my entire fat rear end to the side in a doorway
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Dec 18, 2022 06:38
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Cowcaster posted:i'm sorry orv that i lost my temper and told you to hush I thought we were pals. 
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Dec 18, 2022 06:38
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S.J. posted:My HP pool serves one purpose: not automatically dying to gunfire in .2 seconds when I can't hide my entire fat rear end to the side in a doorway well i'm told that ogryns require less toughness than veterans since they don't take as much ranged fire
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Dec 18, 2022 06:42
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If an Ogryn says "I'm gonna tank" then he better be using a fuckin shield because brother you are getting lit the gently caress up if you're up front
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Dec 18, 2022 06:44
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Cowcaster posted:well i'm told that ogryns require less toughness than veterans since they don't take as much ranged fire Me, holding up a shield, immobile, taking no damage, unable to help, ugly crying
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Dec 18, 2022 06:45
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Cowcaster posted:well i'm told that ogryns require less toughness than veterans since they don't take as much ranged fire I am not an expert oregano but this seems unlike my experiences.
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Dec 18, 2022 06:45
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Orv posted:I am not an expert oregano it's a shame we just got a new thread title, because this would be another good one
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Dec 18, 2022 06:48
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toasterwarrior posted:If an Ogryn says "I'm gonna tank" then he better be using a fuckin shield because brother you are getting lit the gently caress up if you're up front And even then the only way on higher difficulties you don't get slowly burned through is if you have a bunch of block efficiency if you want to actually be able to move
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Dec 18, 2022 06:49
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I think all classes can "tank" (in as much as they mitigate damage) by dodging, blocking and pushing I think the main thing that separates their function is how strong they are at staggering and damaging enemies, both priority and groups, and in both melee and at range. But this depends on weapon types as well so we can't boil down classes to MMO classes. It's more like a leaning towards something, and you can lean harder by aligning your class with your weapon (like bolter emphasises Veteran's ability to kill priority at medium range, while it mitigates the Zealot being less capable at that) That's why I think 'tide games are so engaging, they have a hidden complexity at higher difficulties where different class and weapon combinations will do better or worse depending on niches not being filled
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Dec 18, 2022 06:50
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i don't know why i'm even arguing that hard about this fine the zealot's the tank and the ogryn's the melee dps whatever
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Dec 18, 2022 06:51
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My steam library entry for this game still says "PRE-ORDER BETA" on the key art and I think it's refreshing to have such an honest developer
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Dec 18, 2022 06:54
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Man my heretic runs have been having massive varying quality. Wonder if all the good people have moved onto the next difficulty. Had that issue in VT2 where champion was harder than legend
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Dec 18, 2022 07:06
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I've been going through to level these classes myself and I've finished Veteran and Psyker so far, and I'm interested in what classes the thread thinks are the best 'put together'. Not the best or the strongest but the ones that clearly set out with a design in mind and nailed it with how the class functions in it's feats and abilities. I have already concluded that Veteran is the best on that score and Psyker is probably the worst though I have enjoyed both, but I haven't gone far enough into Ogryn and Zealot to see where they fall on the scale, thoughts? TheNabster fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Dec 18, 2022 |
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Dec 18, 2022 07:09
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Can't wait for them to release Squats for the 5th class slot
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Dec 18, 2022 07:14
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TheNabster posted:I've been going through to level these classes myself and I've finished Veteran and Psyker so far, and I'm interested in what classes the thread thinks are the best 'put together'. Not the best or the strongest but the ones that clearly set out with a design in mind and nailed it with how the class functions in it's feats and abilities. Its definitely the veteran. The veterans goal is to be the ranged nuker and literally all of their talents work to that end and they get access to all the good poo poo to do that weapon wise. All the other classes have some pitfall in how their talent trees are made that lessen their "put togetherness"
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Dec 18, 2022 07:18
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skaianDestiny posted:That's not the definition of a video game tank, no. Just taking a bunch of punishment does not mean you're a tank in a multiplayer video game,
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Dec 18, 2022 07:22
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Jerkface posted:Its definitely the veteran. Yeah. The Zealot feels like quite literally two completely separate builds with half their options ripped out and then mashed together. The Veteran is definitely the only one that feels complete.
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Dec 18, 2022 07:24
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finally got a force sword that blocks ranged too, a psyker can take a surprising amount of melee hits blocking. slug throwers seem to sap the shield the most. so if I am looking at the skill synergy, a vet throwing a bleed spec 'nade basically just buffs the crap out of anyone specced for that, ogryn or zealot.
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Dec 18, 2022 07:27
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The vets job is to shoot and kill all of the shooters engaged in melee with the zealot, leaving them with no source of toughness and a barrage of shots heading towards them. Once the zealot goes down, the vets job is to then target all the shooters.
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Dec 18, 2022 07:28
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MuffinsAndPie posted:The vets job is to shoot and kill all of the shooters engaged in melee with the zealot, leaving them with no source of toughness and a barrage of shots heading towards them. Once the zealot goes down, the vets job is to then target all the shooters. This is consistent with my experience
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Dec 18, 2022 07:29
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MuffinsAndPie posted:The vets job is to shoot and kill all of the shooters engaged in melee with the zealot, leaving them with no source of toughness and a barrage of shots heading towards them. Once the zealot goes down, the vets job is to then target all the shooters. What if the veteran took the feat that grants toughness to his teammates whose melee opponents the veteran has shot? Just kidding no one takes that one! haha ! One thing I think of all the classes is how they feel in early levels, and Vet feels the best by far. Your ult is really straight forward and you start with one of the best weapons. Zealot starts with autopistol & like an axe? Thats garbage. They should start with a chainsword tbh. Psyker is the second best level 1 character because brain burst is good until you get to higher difficulty, its all the other feats that suck. They should 100% start with a staff. I havent played ogryn yet so maybe the ogryns starter kit is good. Jerkface fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Dec 18, 2022 |
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Dec 18, 2022 07:32
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Jerkface posted:Its definitely the veteran. I think Zealot would work really well as a melee berserker if she didn't get stunned when her toughness runs out
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Dec 18, 2022 07:51
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Jerkface posted:What if the veteran took the feat that grants toughness to his teammates whose melee opponents the veteran has shot? Just kidding no one takes that one! haha ! Ogryn starter melee is fine, it's the club, but it doesn't feel amazing. You also have the stupid one shot shotgun which feels awful even tho it's actually not terrible at the beginning
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Dec 18, 2022 07:54
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S.J. posted:Ogryn starter melee is fine, it's the club, but it doesn't feel amazing. You also have the stupid one shot shotgun which feels awful even tho it's actually not terrible at the beginning Yeah the numbers on the Ogryn Shotgun need to be buffed a whole lot. If I am putting the whole crosshair over an enemy special with a massive shotgun and pulling the trigger and it's not dying in one hit, what's the point?
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Dec 18, 2022 08:11
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The only class that I haven't enjoyed is the Psyker. It just doesn't feel good. A lot of ink has been spilled on why, and it's all true, but I have one to add. With all of the other classes, if someone goes down I feel like I can get them back up. Grenades, charges, etc., but with the Psyker I just kind of go "uhhhhh can someone get them."
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Dec 18, 2022 08:35
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Psyker should be able to help people up at a distance. You know, brain sorcery or whatever.
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Dec 18, 2022 08:38
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Internet Explorer posted:The only class that I haven't enjoyed is the Psyker. It just doesn't feel good. A lot of ink has been spilled on why, and it's all true, but I have one to add. With all of the other classes, if someone goes down I feel like I can get them back up. Grenades, charges, etc., but with the Psyker I just kind of go "uhhhhh can someone get them." The feat where you block with perils makes you the best class in the entire game for picking people up.
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Dec 18, 2022 08:39
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Cease to Hope posted:The feat where you block with perils makes you the best class in the entire game for picking people up. Yeah, but that's also the tier where you have to give up the full walk speed while quelling.
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Dec 18, 2022 08:41
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Internet Explorer posted:Yeah, but that's also the tier where you have to give up the full walk speed while quelling. It's very easy to live without.
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Dec 18, 2022 08:44
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Ive never used that quelling perk and never felt the need to, seems like a pretty weak choice. You can just back dodge if space from enemies is something you really need, it just takes timing.
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Dec 18, 2022 08:45
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There's more than a few feats that need to become default parts of their respective classes, the "Veteran gets a free grenade every minute" and "Ogryn box releases grenades when it hits an armored enemy" are two of these
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Dec 18, 2022 08:46
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You can also turn sideways and mash dodge to the side while quelling (or reloading, for that matter) and you go basically as fast as walking.
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Dec 18, 2022 08:47
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Welp, guess I have to try that feat. Still sucks that you need to use a feat to be able to pick people up when all the other classes have no problems out of the gate.
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Dec 18, 2022 08:47
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