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Tosk posted:Maybe I'm crazy but I prefer Persona 3 FES to P3P. I like the fem MC more but I enjoy navigating 3d environments more than the visual novel style approach. I like the dopey way the character models emote in the PS2 cutscenes too.
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Dec 19, 2022 18:39
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A small hitch that I noticed in the sequence is after the cutscene where 'Joker' dies and the news is shown over the TV, Ryuji is all like 'heh, got them'. Then you hear the plan - and in retrospect he wouldn't have known if the plan worked or not. Both the failure and success would be reported in the same way, that was the whole point!
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Dec 19, 2022 19:11
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mmkay posted:A small hitch that I noticed in the sequence is after the cutscene where 'Joker' dies and the news is shown over the TV, Ryuji is all like 'heh, got them'. Then you hear the plan - and in retrospect he wouldn't have known if the plan worked or not. Both the failure and success would be reported in the same way, that was the whole point! I mean, it's part of Ryuji's character to trust on blind faith that Joker pulled it off.
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Dec 19, 2022 19:23
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Ryuji is wrong often. So him being wrong about when to be confident is in character.
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Dec 19, 2022 19:23
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Smiling Knight posted:Having just gotten to the part above, the actual plot itself was well-done. It incorporated a bunch of facts about the Metaverse in a cool and satisfying way. But then yeah, they overexplain everything like they weren’t confident in the players and/or the script. Yeah, I'm with you there. I think the way they planned to get one over on him was actually a pretty cool plan and executed in an interesting way, it's just so incredibly over explained that it sorta saps itself of it's own big triumphant plan coming together energy. It's very satisfyingly heist movie if it was a shorter sequence though
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Dec 19, 2022 19:24
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Look it's very simple - every time something happens in these games that doesn't make sense, a persona did it
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Dec 19, 2022 19:36
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the sex ghost posted:Look it's very simple - every time something happens in these games that doesn't make sense,
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Dec 19, 2022 20:01
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*pretending to be someone who never looks under spoiler tags* hey pancakes sound like a good idea
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Dec 19, 2022 20:08
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Big massive endgame spoilers: The Akechi who takes Joker's place in prison on Christmas, later gets released and joins up with you to stop Maruki is virtually 100% confirmed to be a cognitive Akechi created by Maruki. This is more or less confirmed by both Akechi and Maruki, and the fact that everything reverting to its non-Maruki state after you beat him undoes Akechi stepping in to save Joker from prison. However, the real Akechi who you last see in Shido's palace is never 100% confirmed dead or alive. Per the devs, Maruki is not omniscient or aware of Akechi's true fate: he just looked inside Joker's heart using his power to try and grant his wish, saw Akechi's "sacrifice", and concluded that Akechi was dead. It is possible though that the "real" Akechi managed to survive and was just lying low during all the Maruki stuff, and is the person who walks past Joker's train in the final cutscene. It was left ambiguous intentionally, and we're probably never getting a definative answer one way or the other unless we get Persona 5: 2 (or really Persona 5: 3 since Strikers is essentially a canon sequel, albeit to the vanilla version of the story, not Royal.)
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Dec 20, 2022 00:45
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IMO (P5 spoilers) Akechi being dead is just much more satisfying and seems to give more weight to the events of the third semester, even if it's technically ambiguous. Though there is one thing that bugs me. Can't Maruki read the hearts of everyone with his Palace/powers (and in doing so wouldn't he be able to tell if Akechi actually still lived)? Normally I'd assume the answer is "he can't read the hearts of Persona-users," but doesn't he read Joker's? HootTheOwl posted:the one in your party for the third semester isn't real because he only has one persona even though we know he has at least two but maruki doesn't know you and him had the same powers IIRC it's explicitly mentioned that Akechi doesn't have anything aside from Loki/Robin Hood, due to him not forming connections with others or whatever.
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Dec 20, 2022 01:08
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I uh.. may have done a little too much fighting in mementos. After killing the reaper yesterday I killed it twice more because it wouldn't drop the accessory. That plus having 200% xp put me at 72, which is enough to instant kill everything I can fight currently. This in turn made killing things insanely fast for like 5k xp a pop so I just drove around while I was doing something else and competing everything that's currently open and now I'm 79 going into the 7th palace Whoops 
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Dec 20, 2022 04:12
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Oh so if you don't have Shiki Ouji or some other bulletproof persona and a big stack of sleep inflictors for the Palace 3 boss fight on Merciless then you can just get hosed basically I did happen to have those two things but I'd have been pretty upset if I didn't.
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Dec 20, 2022 07:36
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Ytlaya posted:Though there is one thing that bugs me. Can't Maruki read the hearts of everyone with his Palace/powers (and in doing so wouldn't he be able to tell if Akechi actually still lived)? Normally I'd assume the answer is "he can't read the hearts of Persona-users," but doesn't he read Joker's? It's kind of ambiguous, but my take is that Maruki can't read any person's heart whenever he wants: he has to coax them into letting him doing it, or at least letting their cognition let him do it. We see this with the general public where he has his palace burrow in to Mementos and then let in the cognitions of the masses, whose hearts he then reads in his palace as part of his psych exam. He similarly was able to read the hearts of the thieves because they went through actual psych exams with him in the form of their therapy sessions, which opened their hearts to him. Akechi however was never counseled by Maruki, and wasn't part of the cognitive masses in Mementos by virtue of having a persona, so Maruki wasn't able to read his heart.
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Dec 20, 2022 08:01
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Sapozhnik posted:Oh so if you don't have Shiki Ouji or some other bulletproof persona and a big stack of sleep inflictors for the Palace 3 boss fight on Merciless then you can just get hosed basically I mean, you're choosing to play on the highest difficulty setting, and failing a boss fight in order to learn what Persona/equipment/items to bring is completely fair for any jRPG on any difficulty setting in my opinion. Then again, I admit making the boss battles more "cinamatographic" with so many dialogues and cutscenes in the middle of them makes them a lot more annoying to redo than in a standard jRPG, I had the same problem with Q2.
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Dec 20, 2022 13:25
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Sapozhnik posted:Unless I'm misremembering things there's still a glaring plot hole in the middle of it because they never explain how they yanked Akechi back out of the metaverse without him noticing I was actually replaying today and when you first enter madarames palace it's made clear that even Morgana doesn't know when you slip in or out of the metaverse
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Dec 21, 2022 03:35
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Petiso posted:I mean, you're choosing to play on the highest difficulty setting, and failing a boss fight in order to learn what Persona/equipment/items to bring is completely fair for any jRPG on any difficulty setting in my opinion. Much more than 5, Persona 3 was the worst in the series about this though... with the way save points worked meaning that if you failed any story boss you would need to start the whole Full Moon day with tons of cutscenes and a mini dungeon and so on. Just they balanced it so all the big important-feeling story bosses were almost all complete pushovers that you could always beat on the first try and the actual hardest bosses in the game were like, a palette swapped table on a random floor of Tartarus
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Dec 21, 2022 04:42
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Palace 2 boss was an absolute pushover though, the random Amenouzume in that palace were a bigger threat. That boss in particular really got done dirty by Royal because it was so much harder and more satisfying in the original, it was probably my favorite of the lot. The tuning for Royal's bosses was kind of all over the place in general.
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Dec 21, 2022 05:21
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Weird Pumpkin posted:I uh.. may have done a little too much fighting in mementos. After killing the reaper yesterday I killed it twice more because it wouldn't drop the accessory. That plus having 200% xp put me at 72, which is enough to instant kill everything I can fight currently. This in turn made killing things insanely fast for like 5k xp a pop so I just drove around while I was doing something else and competing everything that's currently open and now I'm 79 going into the 7th palace You'll fairly naturally end up in the low-to-mid-90s for the third semester and that's if you don't grind.
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Dec 21, 2022 05:39
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So it's been long enough since my last run (honestly can't remember) that this game has become interesting again. I just finished up August. Going for the "inappropriate harem run" - dating all the adults. Kawakami, Takemi, Chihaya and Ohya. Good times, tho. Also: why did I sleep so much on items my first 2 runs? No idea why it took until this run for it to dawn on me that they are useful for just like quickly hitting a weakness to get a knock down?
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Dec 21, 2022 15:51
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Sapozhnik posted:Palace 2 boss was an absolute pushover though, the random Amenouzume in that palace were a bigger threat. Royal Palace 2's boss is a good case for difficulty scalings not being linear, especially if you have multiple game modes (the way Hard and Merciless basically are) - and is for practical purposes the second tutorial boss who, with a complete re-write would switch places with Palace 1.If you go into Palace 2 on normal without playing with types and try to beat it with stats and big attacks you're going to have a very bad time. But if you go in and play it smart, baton passing (or even learning to in that fight) he is incredibly easy and in many ways the tutorial boss for the new Okumura.
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Dec 21, 2022 16:44
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right i went and spent a bit of time of the past few days and finished the minimal confidant run, lot of spoilers obv. these are pretty rough notes so any questions on the part of the game no one really touches or explains properly just ask who texts you to check if you're alive after 11/18: Kawakami (Optional), Mishima last day you can fight the twins: 12/22 (kept as main save so i've been to mementos optionally once pre-12/24 and only at the entrance) and those questions i had about 12/24: you get dumped into Qimranut Area 1 if it's your first time into mementos proper since the introduction there isn't a difference if you head in on 12/22... except you get the 2x goho-ms and exploring mementos tutorial as far as requests go they all (15, 9 of which are ID'ed) turn to Unknown as progress, and the only one you're forced to do is Beware the Clingy Ex-boyfriend! Jose appears for his introduction cutscene at Aiyatsbus Area 1, reaper tutorial still pops up meeting Jose gives you the 8 rings if you grabbed all the will seeds. this includes 3rd semester's from last playthrough too - Ring of Sorrow that grants 8% HP & SP recovery after a fight, and a skill: Guiding Tendil (20SP, Knockdown attack on all goes (only usable during an Ambush)) ... this doesn't work on the reaper btw when you get the stamp book nothing's allocated you have to do that, lucky the Jose tutorial spawns him in this area took me 38 minutes to get to the new 12/24 area from the start of mementos, Jose appeared a ton and i had pretty good luck with Futaba scanning the area to immediately jump down during the merge only Sae has something to say during the quarantine cell/velvet room situation all your party members are there regardless of whether they're a confidant during yald's fight you get rooted on by the brown-haired young man. then it cuts to sojiro talking to mishima, then sae and that's it ...and Akechi turns out to talk to Sae so onto 3rd semester i go, honestly i expected there to be some party member requirement with this unlock before 3rd semester here's where i am: confidants the game forces on you: Fool (max), Magician (max), Hierophant (1), Lovers (1), Chariot (1), Justice (1), Hermit (1), Moon (2), Judgment (Max), Faith (1), Councillor (2) extra ranks/confidants i got. to either activate 3rd semester, or to activate their ng+ item for more night slots/easier mementos/palaces: Chariot (7 - need 5 for gym, 7 gets you insta-kill), Justice (max, 3rd semester), Strength (1, for ng+ options), Temperance (1, to use ng+ item for massages) Faith (5/max, for 3rd semester), Councillor (max, for 3rd semester) 3rd semester: - still have to walk around and visit a party member every day for the first week - naturally you get morgana's 11th rank on 1/10 - all the requests are there, but the doors are still open with no one guarding them. i have 8 targets in Da'at so looks like they all move there - you can just continue confidants or start new ones, yes this means Ann will tell you she just visited Shiho in hospital as she's walking around - need to get a route to the treasure before you can fight Lavenza, really the crit part of this puzzle boss is the toughest given the game caps crit chance. beating her gets you the Omnipotent Orb (accessory, Skill: Zenith Defense, Nullifies all magical attacks except Almighty. Desc: An orb with almost godlike power.), and the Intricate Bookmark (Key item, does nothing, A bookmark with two woven colored bands used by Lavenza.) - Only ranks i got in 3rd semester were the rest of Sumire's so i can check a romance event flag later, and Rank 11 of Justice so after you deal with the palace and fallout you get to ask Lavenza a question. you know velvet room attendant, gives you the omnipotent orb if you beat them up, etc. anyway she looks sad that things will revert back: What happens to Akechi? Everything will return to how it should be... Everything. There are no exceptions. then it's whether you have regrets and that this path wasn't taken lightly, everyone looking off to the side going "...". you know regular talk for when a person's still alive in the world and only a cognitive version of them stopped existing i mentioned checking a romance event flag: on 3/14 when getting flowers the game does account for you never working in the flower shop, and morgana somehow pays for them and on 3/19 i get to say goodbye to Sae and... well morgana technically. then on 3/20 we get the one of the more awkward stingers just to keep the fandom active. honestly i don't care that much over it all but while i'm at this section of the game may as well add this to the thread my first long completionist playthrough ended at 97:07, this ends at 122:37 so i'm not getting any speedrun times for this but it went much faster than i expected given i wasn't going to bed every day, and there's a lot of idling around there too. 2420 p-coins for all the awards, going in is when i see Jose and vaguely recall a rewards for doing all of this and it's back in the cardboard box. loading up a save i get: Invisible veil (accessory, Skill: Not Found by Enemy. Prevents discovery by foes roaming the Metaverse. Desc: A veil that shields you from the weak-willed.) and Letter from Royalty (Key item, A document that enables one to summon a Persona for free.) really it's kind of odd that the all awards key items do this. i didn't really except any changes to the dialogue or events for minimal confidants, but if i wanted to see what the ng+ fights look like i may as well tackle both of those i had questions at once. i spent as much time as possible on jazz club on Ann and Ryuji, and by the end they were both almost as powerful as Makoto after a month of jazz club from the first playthrough.. almost
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Dec 21, 2022 21:28
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Namnesor posted:You'll fairly naturally end up in the low-to-mid-90s for the third semester and that's if you don't grind. Ah ok, I ended up like 3 shotting most of the bosses forms for the palace, but sounds like the game might scale up a little more to catch back up by the end I think I ended my first playthrough in the base game around 90, but that's because it was just sort of fun to use despair to make the reaper auto die and it was fast enough that there was very little reason not to
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Dec 22, 2022 03:44
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This was very interesting, thanks. I've always thought of doing a P3FES run where you try to BREAK as many social links as possible, although that one seems a bit harder to plan. Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:- you can just continue confidants or start new ones, yes this means Ann will tell you she just visited Shiho in hospital as she's walking around Ha, I never thought about this situation. I think Haru's confidant also involve talking about meetings that happen during the course of her confidant regarding her father's death and her ex-fiance that shouldn't be possible in Maruki's world.
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Dec 22, 2022 13:37
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You know - it occurred to me on this playthrough how awful the writing for Makoto's story is. I dunno if they couldn't figure out a better way to get to her awakening or what, but if her primary character trait is "the smart one" then you probably shouldn't have nearly all her actions leading up to her awakening be so amazingly stupid that even stupid people would go "bruh". All of it gets handwaved away with a line about "sorry. I was just trying to stop being the person who always does what the adults tell me to do" - which is fine, but that's not really an excuse, and everything she did was dumb enough that I definitely don't want her as an advisor. But yes, let's take the person who- after growing up the daughter of a cop, and the sister of a prosecutor (and by extension, presumably knows something about how crime, and gangs and mafias work)- decides, as a teenage girl, to just get in a car with 2 random mafia members in order to confront their mafia boss, in one of his own clubs- and make her the smart one who advises the group. I dunno. Just seems dumb. Like Ryuji has poor impulse control, but his are like "get expelled" stupid, or "get kicked off the track team" stupid. Makoto was like "get yourself killed/sold into sex trafficking" stupid.
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Dec 22, 2022 14:31
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Fully agree. I think Makoto suffers from the devs’ desire to add her to the group early but unwillingness to actually confront the authority figure in her life, Sae at that point. So we end up with a pointless villain and contrived plot.
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Dec 22, 2022 15:45
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Huh, I’m also replaying that part and think it’s a lot more reasonable on a second playthrough. Makoto's flaw is that she believes the system will protect the vulnerable, despite being surrounded by examples to the contrary, and also that she has no value, thanks to the aforementioned examples. She's book smart but naïve, and thinks she is safe because she is a minor with a clean record and the “backing” of the principal and a hot shot prosecutor. She's also desperate to prove herself because after she blows Joker's cover, he still unflinchingly steps in to save her rear end, making her realize that the people she's currently blackmailing care more about her well-being than the adults in her life. She's just had her worldview shattered and overcorrects, which is something that happens to smart, inexperienced people all too often. Plus her actual plan is to sacrifice herself and put her faith in someone who deserves it for once. The latter pays off with dividends, not only do the Phantom Thieves save her and stop Kaneshiro, she also gets her sister to spend an afternoon with Joker, shattering her illusion that there’s such a thing as a good cop, which is priceless. She grossly underestimated what the sacrifice would entail, but again, that’s more naïve than stupid. Advisor is exactly the role she should have; she gets to puzzle out game mechanics and suggest a path of action, but she also gets to be overruled by the sensible folks like Yusuke when it comes to critical matters.
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Dec 22, 2022 15:47
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:by the sensible folks like Yusuke https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W_V42Wiu0M
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Dec 22, 2022 16:07
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Yusuke may be a lot of things, but he never takes his eye off the ball to let things like personal matters or a quest for fame or social reform get in the way of the Phantom Thieves. He's there because they saved him and he wants to pay it forward, and he only ever considers the victims of the current target and the potential consequences of going after them. He's the first to hit the brakes when it's obvious you're being railroaded and only relents when he decides that saving Haru is worth the risk of whatever the villain is planning. Name one time Yusuke has steered anyone wrong (after joining the Phantom Thieves), I dare you.
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Dec 22, 2022 16:40
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Yusuke may be a lot of things, but he never takes his eye off the ball to let things like personal matters or a quest for fame or social reform get in the way of the Phantom Thieves. He's there because they saved him and he wants to pay it forward, and he only ever considers the victims of the current target and the potential consequences of going after them. He's the first to hit the brakes when it's obvious you're being railroaded and only relents when he decides that saving Haru is worth the risk of whatever the villain is planning. at the core its a writing problem though as you never get a sense that there's proper planning going on outside of the casino. the heist and thieves part is scenery dressing, which makes the last few sections of the game where the writers act like the group were thoroughly planning things out seem hollow
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Dec 22, 2022 18:27
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yeah idk what exactly Makoto does as the "brains" it's one of those bits where they say it, but when you look at what happens Futuba is kind of the one who seems to do the most outside Joker, unless reminding Ryuji that school exams exist counts as a "plan" bad writing etc
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Dec 22, 2022 18:41
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makoto is the brains because shes the one who reminds the party of what happened five minutes ago the most
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Dec 22, 2022 18:43
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Feels Villeneuve posted:yeah idk what exactly Makoto does as the "brains" She states the obvious
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Dec 22, 2022 18:49
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I really hope that in future games they condense all of the dialogue down so there is less repeating things that happened five minutes ago. You could easily cut 20 hours from P5 this way.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:00
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DemoneeHo posted:I really hope that in future games they condense all of the dialogue down so there is less repeating things that happened five minutes ago. You could easily cut 20 hours from P5 this way. It's not as bad in the other games. Speaking of which, talk of "the brains of the group" and recaps, Yosuke is clearly the smartest in the IT after Naoto. in the real scenes that matter (unlike gags) such as when they gather to discuss the murders, he's pretty much always in charge and leading the conversation. Chie was the one I remember seeming like she was perpetually lost and confused. In an endearing way, of course. Erin Fitzgerald is great.
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Dec 22, 2022 19:12
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DemoneeHo posted:I really hope that in future games they condense all of the dialogue down so there is less repeating things that happened five minutes ago. You could easily cut 20 hours from P5 this way. 15 hours alone from cutting every text conversation that goes: "guys? do you think it worked this time?" "yeah omg. what if it doesn't work?" "are we sure it worked? what if it didn't work?" "do you think it worked?" "the deadline is getting close! are we gonna be okay? what if it didn't work?"
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Dec 22, 2022 19:46
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honestly i'm surprised there isn't a mod that attempts to do that
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Dec 22, 2022 20:05
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i kinda want to leave everything until the deadline if i ever play it again just to see if anything different gets said
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Dec 22, 2022 20:07
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Advisor is exactly the role she should have; she gets to puzzle out game mechanics and suggest a path of action, but she also gets to be overruled by the sensible folks like Yusuke when it comes to critical matters. And she even does puzzle out game mechanics; her s-link gives Shadow Calculus and Shadow Factorization. She's not the improviser that Joker is. And she's not the planner Futaba, Akechi, or Hifumi are. She's the researcher who brings the tab ring binder and advises on how things are supposed to work, always having the right slide or handout to hand. Which is a decent contribution for an advisor. (I also think that she could make a good backup navigator - but Oracle has the persona for it and Morgana the experience (and Crow the voice acting)).
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Dec 22, 2022 21:11
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a Persona user cannot have a palace unless their Persona was dreamed up by H.P. Lovecraft then it's ok
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Dec 22, 2022 21:23
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| # ? May 25, 2024 06:33 |
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DemoneeHo posted:I really hope that in future games they condense all of the dialogue down so there is less repeating things that happened five minutes ago. You could easily cut 20 hours from P5 this way. i think its just an issue of persona 5's insanely busted development. they rewrote the plot constantly and you can see a ton of elements that had to be awkwardly reused from earlier drafts. the repeating of the plot was probably as much for the writers as for the audience. when the story around it is constantly in flux having the characters reiterate what just happened allows you to keep a scene relatively constant. and then they had a deadline to hit so they couldnt edit that stuff out.
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Dec 22, 2022 21:27
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