PawParole posted:

There’s no tragedy in the death of the deviationists but Hoxiaism was ideologically correct and yet it collapsed as well.

Slavvy posted:

Denouncing Stalin is what ultimately destroyed the USSR and I will never be convinced otherwise.

A Russian troll farm posted:

I'm not going to say that Stalin did nothing wrong. Like anyone else, he was flawed, and he made mistakes. But his heart was in the right place and he never gave up on his dreams

Slavvy posted:

That crisis of faith is what I'm referring to. They could've said 'he did what he had to, made mistakes, but it's ultimately how we got here and we can't forget that because it's our history' like the ccp did with mao afaict. But if you insist everything to do with him was bad and wrong and the capitalists might not actually be evil incarnate, then you put yourself in the situation of asking wtf we're all actually doing here and why and suddenly you start thinking bourgeois consumerism is aspirational and a couple decades later you've got gorby. Imo the ccp haven't fully dodged this bullet even now.

Vomik posted:

imo I think the rise of neo nazism is probably because the nazis were never actually removed from power they just slid into NATO and the us government.

or I guess maybe a country that collapsed 30 years ago and had/has been looted and sabotaged by the west is to blame for the problems in the west

Slavvy posted:

That crisis of faith is what I'm referring to. They could've said 'he did what he had to, made mistakes, but it's ultimately how we got here and we can't forget that because it's our history' like the ccp did with mao afaict. But if you insist everything to do with him was bad and wrong and the capitalists might not actually be evil incarnate, then you put yourself in the situation of asking wtf we're all actually doing here and why and suddenly you start thinking bourgeois consumerism is aspirational and a couple decades later you've got gorby. Imo the ccp haven't fully dodged this bullet even now.

Tankbuster posted:

The catholic church pretends that calcutta was an open sewer that was stopped from imploding by mother teresa running around with a corpse cart.

Ardennes posted:

More than in a jokey sense, do you really actually think the world is in a better place with the collapse of the Soviet Union? I mean really deep down?

Time for a study on GBS syndrome: it's origins, symptoms, and prognosis

Frosted Flake posted:

Missionaries of Charity were applying Maoist vanguard theory.

evilmiera posted:

if it keeps endorsing and cheering on mass-murderers and power-hungry narcissists, or if that endorsement was the only thing keeping it afloat,

evilmiera posted:

Much like the US, if it keeps endorsing and cheering on mass-murderers and power-hungry narcissists, or if that endorsement was the only thing keeping it afloat, then maybe there's something structurally wrong about it and it needs to either change or be replaced by something else.

fits my needs posted:

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1605832022341160960?s=20&t=CzqPlkQGW2zez4XhwypSQQ

gradenko_2000 posted:

the USSR specifically stopped doing that

evilmiera posted:

I was responding to the people who said the USSR collapsed because it denounced Stalin

evilmiera posted:

I was responding to the people who said the USSR collapsed because it denounced Stalin

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

stalinism/hoxhaism were destined to "collapse" one way or another. i agree with what isaac deutscher wrote about stalinism in that it represented a contradiction in the soviet union at the time, which was a marxist party taking power in a backwards country that was still pre-industrial in a lot of places, and that this party both accelerated the society while also constructing a political regime that had characteristics of a lower-stage of civilization with the magical god-emperor of the sun being the lord of everything. the serfs were only emancipated in russia in 1865 and stalin wasn't born long after that.

marxism is highly logical within the context of an industrialized society, which the communist party of the soviet union tasked itself with creating, but as it was doing this, stalin became the leader of a quasi-religion centered around his person, which was not "logical" and certainly "grotesque" to see. there were a lot of educated party members who had a cynical attitude about this too. but it "made sense" as socialism adapting itself to its environment, but then the material conditions of the society punched into the atomic age in 25 years which took centuries in britain, which also paradoxically created the conditions for stalinism to "whither away." i think there's also an analogy to napoleon inheriting the revolution and spreading it beyond its borders but also reviving some elements of the "ancien regime."

lobotomy molo posted:

the USSR collapsed because the richest industrial capitalist nation considered its survival an existential thread, wanted to carve it up and plunder it. certain revisionist dipshits (kruschev, gorbachov) thought appeasing the west by denouncing stalin and past soviet actions, giving concessions and not backing revolutionary movements in other countries, etc. would restore good relations with the US. they were wrong, and instead the aggressive unilateral US siege of the USSR continued until it collapsed.

just for comparison, the american empire has killed far more people than stalin, just like the british empire before it. try reading the jakarta method or killing hope to learn more.

Frosted Flake posted:

Where have I heard this before?

That crisis of faith is what I'm referring to. They could've said 'we made mistakes, but it's ultimately how we got here and we can't forget that because it's our history' like the Catholic Church did in addressing its scandals. But if you insist everything to do with the Church was bad and wrong, then you put yourself in the situation of asking what we're all actually doing here and why and suddenly you start thinking that leaving the Church is aspirational. It will take a long time for the Church to fully recover from the damage that has been done, and it may never fully dodge this bullet.

gradenko_2000 posted:

tristeham posted:

i hope it never recovers you stupid bitch

Frosted Flake posted:

Okay, so I have not had the chance to read these books before with the exception of the Return of the Ancestral Gods, which was pretty much "Azov: The Book!". From skimming them and jotting down notes in the bookstore, It is more clear to me than ever, that "Ukrainian Nationalism" as it exists today grew out of the group of Galician Catholics that had previously identified themselves as "Rusyn" or "Ruthenian". This is a bit funny to me, because I had previously joked about "Why the Ukrainians and not the Kashubians?" but it seems like what's transpired is more-or-less what would have happened if the Kashubians had been able to define "Polish" nationalism. Specifically, a small group without a state, chafing against their neighbours, found themselves empowered in 1941 and 2014 because they were virulently anti-Russian and anti-Communist, then traded in the limited and geographically restricted identity of "Rusyn" or "Ruthenian" for defining "Ukrainian" as a whole. How they became "Ukrainian" in the first place was ironically because when the USSR assumed Galicia from Austria-Hungary, they lumped them in with people they had previously never shared a nation with. This rather clumsy effort at integrating Galicia into the Soviet Union backfired as the vengeful bumpkins never let it go. This was later used against Russia by groups who were happy to enable the Galicians in their myriad projects of revenge.

Orange Devil posted:

I started playing some online boardgames with a Ukrainian fella in Kiev this year, which is a little weird given uhh, you know, everything. But uhh anyway he told me just this week that starting this year Ukraine will be celebrating Christmas following the Gregorian calendar, so Dec 24th and 25th rather than January 7th.

I had to think about this poo poo instantly. These Galician Catholics are reshaping the whole country in their image.

tristeham posted:

i hope it never recovers you stupid bitch

crepeface posted:

https://i.imgur.com/I9ACT3k.mp4

gradenko_2000 posted:

reddit atheist moment

gradenko_2000 posted:

reddit atheist moment

tristeham posted:

no i'm just really tired of the epic papist nato troop