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RareAcumen posted:Oh mostly just being a shorter pyro sword-instead of greatsword- character with a charge attack instead of it being a combo so different in every way except being pyro??? ninjoatse.cx posted:There was! Bennett's skill applies 2 Units of pyro which chong could melt on all 4 hits of his ult. It was a pretty good early game blitz that was easy to set up, even when you didn't have access to 5 star artifacts. that's a totally different thing, and it was part of the original "national team" before chong got replaced by sucrose in the playerbase's consciousness there were also some niche bennett-carry teams where benny himself stayed on field and did the majority of the team's damage, either melting his E every 2 seconds or (for maximum meme power) using the Thundering Fury set to reduce his E cd to 1s and spam the hell out of it. sadly TF bennett only works against fat stuff that won't get knocked out of your circle by the overload spam RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Dec 23, 2022 |
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Dec 23, 2022 07:35
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Yeah I was thinking of the on-field Bennett one that used the cryo field to set up melts, rinse and repeat.
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Dec 23, 2022 07:43
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:so different in every way except being pyro??? Yeah fair. Shenhe and Rosaria attack much more similarly with different secondary effects.
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Dec 23, 2022 08:07
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I feel like Bennett really WAS meant to be some sort of Diluc-ish character when they were designing him. If you look at his trial it's all about how you can hold his skill for various amounts of time to unleash stronger attacks. Just a whole lotta stuff relating to his skill, very little about his burst. Kinda feels like Benny and Noelle were designed as "healer+attacker hybrids" without taking into consideration that, like, other characters could stand on benny's circle too, and that it would become his primary use case. The first time they saw someone play OG national must have been horrifying lmao. Like, oops, guess now we gotta balance the entire rest of the game around this sort of thing. Forever.
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Dec 23, 2022 09:15
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that's why they're releasing so many characters that scale off weird stats like hp or def now they're afraid of benny's pyro archon dominance
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Dec 23, 2022 09:18
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the initial launch of the game seems like they had no idea what people would be doing. see mona's charge attack constellations. some skills also seem like they were designed for co-op instead of quickswapping, and bennet's definitely feels like an example of that.
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Dec 23, 2022 09:28
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The general player skill and understanding is also something that literally no way Mihoyo could've forsaw. Going super hard on fixing Xiangling's energy problem by just giving her an ER sands and using Fav spear because 20% damage reduction is easily worth 100% burst uptime. XQ is also another character that got solved easily by just giving him Sac sword. Which leads to the unfortunate super kneejerk design reaction to make certain characters near useless to some modern 4 stars like Faruzan or Sara without c6. Fischl is also another character that doesn't get as much talk on how busted she was, mostly because electro=bad was such a strong stigma for years. She and Xiangling are the main reasons why upcoming characters like Yaoyao or currently Collei have horrific ICD.
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Dec 23, 2022 09:39
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With their relatively novel combat system and complete unwillingness to rebalance anything after launch, I'm just impressed the game isn't more broken.
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Dec 23, 2022 09:55
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FractalSandwich posted:complete unwillingness to rebalance anything after launch At least let the launch healers who aren't Jean or Bennett generate their own energy, jeez mhy Say what you will about them hamstringing a lot of new 4*s, but they haven't released anyone with 0 particle generation
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Dec 23, 2022 10:18
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RareAcumen posted:Yeah fair. Shenhe and Rosaria attack much more similarly with different secondary effects. Yes, Rosaria is a solid Shenhe replacement in Ayaka freeze teams.
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Dec 23, 2022 12:37
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Turns out it's pretty difficult to maintain a steady playing routine during the all out full blown chaos that we call the Christmas Season. Especially this week.
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Dec 23, 2022 15:07
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Kale posted:Turns out it's pretty difficult to maintain a steady playing routine during the all out full blown chaos that we call the Christmas Season. Especially this week. yeah that's why I rushed to get my Raiden prefarming done last week now i'm ready to welcome her next week
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Dec 23, 2022 15:11
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:that's why they're releasing so many characters that scale off weird stats like hp or def now murata better die or be non-playable by the time natlan comes around because, boy oh boy, is the fallout over them being weaker than bennett and hu tao going to be glorious otherwise 
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Dec 23, 2022 15:28
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MNSNTZR posted:murata better die or be non-playable by the time natlan comes around because, boy oh boy, is the fallout over them being weaker than bennett and hu tao going to be glorious otherwise
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Dec 23, 2022 15:40
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Endorph posted:the initial launch of the game seems like they had no idea what people would be doing. see mona's charge attack constellations. some skills also seem like they were designed for co-op instead of quickswapping, and bennet's definitely feels like an example of that. if they want to design characters for co-op they should give us co-op abyss 
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Dec 23, 2022 17:33
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FractalSandwich posted:She can just be Pyro Xingqiu and nobody will be able to complain. given all the “dendro keqing” out there, i don’t know hoyo really likes backing themselves into corners and making weird rear end decisions to try and subvert it. even when people were touting that there was something as innocuous as animation creep with cyno, nilou and nahida, they walked it back by turning al haitham into a clownshow top to bottom they’re going to run into the same impasse in fontaine too, given the high number of meta hydro units for both dps and support i’m really interested to see how they put the anti-powercreep into both of these regions wrt their archons
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Dec 23, 2022 17:50
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Archons feel like exceptions, Nahida is a monster. Al didn't need the nerfs since he doesn't work with Fischl who is really the one making Keqing viable. I have no idea what they are thinking with him.
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Dec 23, 2022 18:22
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They were thinking that any amount of steady dendro application has an immense damage floor, due to the nature of: -Catalyze, whose damage amp favors raw number of elemental application, over individual move values. -Hyperbloom, whose damage output is high enough that a favonius dingus with a 4 star support set could be a top tier driver as long as they made enough cores -the fact that you can use both reactions simultaneously. I'm sure they accepted this to be true when they were making him. What they did NOT expect/want was for him to be such a strong speedrunning character, with an immensly powerful frontloaded burst with such a small damage window. Hoyo's stance right now seems to be that high sustained damage over time is fine, and high overall dps with sharp spikes in damage is also fine. But being able to do both, is not  That's why I was worried they were gonna find "dendro ayaka" before launch and kneecap him. But thankfully he still looks fine, and even the "dendro ayaka" mode doesn't seem THAT bad. 
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Dec 23, 2022 18:59
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The content is so low powered the meta is almost completely meaningless, so they probably just don't care. If they did, they would probably just powercreep the game like they do in Honkai. I don't think Bennett or XQ are nearly as hosed up as Pardo is, but she'll eventually fall out of favor since the numbers must go up.
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Dec 23, 2022 19:09
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Maxwell Adams posted:You should probably include a hyperbloom team, you've got the characters for it. Oooh. This is all amazing information. Thank you. This sounds like a super interesting team comp. I do have SacSword (I think it is like R3 at this point). With that in mind, I think Xingqiu probably would make more sense than Yelan? I haven't even started looking into building Yelan, she's currently sitting at like level 20 and I haven't even gone over and assessed which weapons I have. Raiden and Kuki are both unleveled and without weapons as well, but as you mentioned, the current event gives a good Kuki weapon? So I guess that would look like Collei/Kuki/Xingqiu and then either Beidou/DendroMC/Zhongli. Funny side thing I noticed - I never even unlocked Electro Traveler.
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Dec 23, 2022 19:32
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you can use yelan as your fourth in a hyperbloom team too if you want, but idk how exactly it compares to the other options despite being "5 star xingqiu" she actually pairs really well with xq, kinda like yae and fischl. although unlike yae she also works on her own without a dedicated battery
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Dec 23, 2022 19:54
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Tae posted:The general player skill and understanding is also something that literally no way Mihoyo could've forsaw. Going super hard on fixing Xiangling's energy problem by just giving her an ER sands and using Fav spear because 20% damage reduction is easily worth 100% burst uptime. I literally just did this, replacing her EM sands with ER% sands (that at least have 49EM as a substat). Definitely worth it, because her burst uptime wasn't remotely consistent before that. I have her using that one spear that gives extra burst damage for the total energy cost of the party's bursts, though; her ER% is currently ~200% which is hopefully good enough. My one issue with teams with people like her or Yelan is that they just do too much damage on their own; it's hard to really enjoy using whoever the new character you're playing around with is (in my case Wanderer, who has a team of Wanderer/Yelan/Xiangling/Bennett right now). Btw, another thing that makes Yelan's C1 so ridiculous - since the second charge of her Skill recharges while you're using the first charge, if you use her Skill to zoom around you're only left with <3s downtime between each use of both charges. So you can zoom around almost non-stop. This detail (the fact that the second charge recharges while the first is being used) is really important and makes her C1 much better than it appears at first glance. It effectively just lets you double-up on its use.
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Dec 23, 2022 20:16
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Is Wanderer actually good or is he only fun to use? I'm 115 wishes deep but questioning if I really want Scara because I have no desire to farm the new artifact domain for his set. (Also I have c5 Heizou.) How viable are alternative artifact sets for Wanderer? Shimenawa would mean running trash artifacts with only 2 useful substats. I can always run 15% anemo / 18% atk but how gimped would Wanderer be with that set? The genshin community character build suggests: 1. Desert Pavillion Chronicles (4) 2. Shimenawa's Reminiscence (4) 3. Echoes of an Offering (4)* 4. +15% Anemo DMG Set (2) +15% Anemo DMG Set (2) +18% ATK Set (2) +18% ATK Set (2) [Choose Two] 5. Blizzard Strayer (4)* 6. Lavawalkers (4)* 7. Viridescent Venerer (4)*
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Dec 23, 2022 20:19
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2+2 artifacts should be fine assuming you already have some with good substats as far as "good", he's not meta. he is a serviceable hypercarry like itto or xiao, like if you roll him you can make him work easily enough but you do that by building a team around him and not by using him to improve an existing team, so he doesn't add a lot of 'value' to your account and probably isn't a big upgrade from what you can already do. so he is a character you would roll for fun reasons or Big Hat reasons. if you care about meta you are probably best off waiting for the raiden banner in 5 days, or maybe al haitham after that since dendro is pretty cracked atm
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Dec 23, 2022 20:42
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He's a decent hyper carry, and he has a unique playstyle in the "fly in circles while DBZ blasting the enemy". He plays decently well with lots of different catalysts, which is also nice. He also pairs decently well any other two member team combo, but he really like having a shielder. Not always, but when fighting anything that can stun lock you (like his artifact domain, of all places) it's really nice not to have to worry about his fragileness. I've tried to take him to level 12 on the abyss, but being an anemo element damage carry is getting his rear end kicked by shields and teams that can make use of fast swaps better. I have both him and his signature rating, but not his artifact set. I'd give him an A rating, but definitely not the S ranking of Kazuha, Hu Tao, Ayaka, or Yelan. I don't have Xiao or Itto, so I'm not sure how well he'd compare against them. He has a 6 second cooldown on his skill, which means even when things go pear shaped, it's not difficult to get him back in his groove, unlike teams that depend on a character's burst
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Dec 23, 2022 21:31
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He's really nice for exploration and does good damage, though I'd say he's not a huge step up from Heizou, especially a C6 Heizou in terms of damage and you really need a shielder with him for tougher content because he gets his rear end knocked around while in the air super easily and it sucks. Faruzan is good to have in his team too which means double Anemo and if you have Lost Prayer on him he zip zooms around like a motherfucker. Coupled with his skill he provides the best mobility in the game.
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Dec 23, 2022 21:50
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I've been having fun playing as Wanderer but after figuring out how you make those anemo arrows on his back launch at people, I feel like they don't give you nearly enough flight points to really feel like you're using his skill for an appreciable amount of time.
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Dec 23, 2022 22:46
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I got 0 copies of Faruzan, how much is she needed for Wanderer? She keeps getting compared to an anemo Gorou, is the comparison just because her niche is strictly Wanderer's pocket buddy, or does he get the dip in quality Itto suffers without his pocket dogboy?
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Dec 23, 2022 22:57
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Gorou is better as far as hr doesnt need c6 to function because he doesnt have absurd energy needs.
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Dec 23, 2022 23:01
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I guess Wanderer doesn't so much need Faruzan as much as she's really, really good to have in his teams. Her energy needs are high but you don't need to build her for damage anyway and there are a lot of ER bows around to choose from, a Favonius bow works on her very well. She also naturally gives Anemo shred which means you won't need Viridescent Venerer on anyone in the party and can put a full Noblesse set on her and the new set on Wanderer.
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Dec 23, 2022 23:18
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Sanctum posted:Is Wanderer actually good or is he only fun to use? I'm 115 wishes deep but questioning if I really want Scara because I have no desire to farm the new artifact domain for his set. (Also I have c5 Heizou.) i run that exact atk/anemo setup on my c3 wanderer and he’s a peach, especially if you don’t ignore his burst. i’ve got him doing 700k/burst in my vv faruzan, noblesse bennett team so far. shimenawa performs about the same but i obviously don’t burst as much as i’d like my dp artifacts are loving terrible, but his NA still does around 10k unbuffed/20-30k buffed and 40-50k buffed CAs with it. roundabout the same as my glad/vv setup — but you also get more NAs with that set. so it honestly just depends on what rolls better and what you want to prioritize
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Dec 23, 2022 23:22
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Coolness Averted posted:I got 0 copies of Faruzan, how much is she needed for Wanderer? She keeps getting compared to an anemo Gorou, is the comparison just because her niche is strictly Wanderer's pocket buddy, or does he get the dip in quality Itto suffers without his pocket dogboy? She's really good. There are a few other anemo shreds in the game, but wanderer really benefit from her bonuses. Without her, he still does decent damage, but it feel like playing non-vape childe. Respectable numbers, but not great. He reminds me of playing tartaglia without his vape team. He still shreds everything, but he's not getting the one shots other 5 stars get. Tae posted:Gorou is better as far as hr doesnt need c6 to function because he doesnt have absurd energy needs. It's not difficult to get her to burst every rotation with a fav bow and and an ER sands. I have her C1, though.
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Dec 23, 2022 23:23
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Tae posted:Gorou is better as far as hr doesnt need c6 to function because he doesnt have absurd energy needs. Yeah Gorou is strictly there for his buff from his skill. Until I got his constellation that makes his burst heal, I didn't even bother taking him out of the 70's since he had 0 scaling on the skill. That was a quality of life thing, not strictly necessarily for my mono geo team, it just means if timing ever gets thrown off and Zhongli's shield goes down I don't need to stuff chicken into Itto or Albedo. Coolness Averted fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Dec 23, 2022 |
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Dec 23, 2022 23:24
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Stare-Out posted:I guess Wanderer doesn't so much need Faruzan as much as she's really, really good to have in his teams. Her energy needs are high but you don't need to build her for damage anyway and there are a lot of ER bows around to choose from, a Favonius bow works on her very well. She also naturally gives Anemo shred which means you won't need Viridescent Venerer on anyone in the party and can put a full Noblesse set on her and the new set on Wanderer. I had her with a 4 piece Noblesse and swapped her to VV so she can shred hydro resist for Yelan at the same time as anemo resist for Wanderer. Worth noting that only the first hit applies the resist debuff for VV as it only works when she's on field.
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Dec 23, 2022 23:28
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ninjoatse.cx posted:I had her with a 4 piece Noblesse and swapped her to VV so she can shred hydro resist for Yelan at the same time as anemo resist for Wanderer. Worth noting that only the first hit applies the resist debuff for VV as it only works when she's on field. Oh right, I forgot that VV gives shred to everything as long as it's swirled and not just Anemo. I run Wanderer and Faruzan with Fischl and Kokomi typically so no Yelan/Xingqiu hydro stuff happening so I figure Noblesse is still all good.
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Dec 23, 2022 23:56
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ninjoatse.cx posted:He also pairs decently well any other two member team combo, but he really like having a shielder. Not always, but when fighting anything that can stun lock you (like his artifact domain, of all places) it's really nice not to have to worry about his fragileness. The way he gets knocked around while flying is also particularly infuriating. It feels like it happens in slow motion, even when mashing dash/jump, and you're already on the timer of his skill. It also seems kind of hard to dodge stuff due to the different angle. Edit: I hope they add another decent shielder at some point that actually goes reasonably well with him. Currently I always rely on either Zhongli or Diona. vvv Unless I'm missing something, I'm pretty sure their attack is also unblockably fast if you're anywhere near them. I've deliberately watched for it, and then it suddenly zooms out faster than I can react. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Dec 24, 2022 |
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Dec 24, 2022 01:24
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Those hydro mushrooms are such pricks, something I didn't know until the new domain. The way they spam their knockback attack is the WORST.
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Dec 24, 2022 01:26
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Yeah it's not entirely undodgeable but if you get hit by it once you're going to take the full attack because you're staggered the whole drat time. It's really a step above the other shroom gimmicks.
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Dec 24, 2022 02:31
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They're also heavy so even though I've got venti and sucroses's ult's both going scara's still getting hit by the water and that earth one's still charging around.
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Dec 24, 2022 02:45
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Ytlaya posted:The way he gets knocked around while flying is also particularly infuriating. It feels like it happens in slow motion, even when mashing dash/jump, and you're already on the timer of his skill. It also seems kind of hard to dodge stuff due to the different angle. I mean, Zhongli's 20% resistance shred applies to Anemo too, right? That probably helps some with damage. And it just occurred to me, you could probably add in Yun Jin for her normal attack buff and Geo Resonance. I haven't really taken Wanderer into any "serious" content, but I've been using Layla with him for overworld, add in a hydro unit and you can get a bunch of freeze and some tiny swirls. Not the most synergistic, but not much is besides his pocket Faruzan, right? (Faruzan, who I did not get. Whatever. Sayu's is more useful for the stuff I actually want wanderer for anyway.)
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Dec 24, 2022 02:52
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