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Mister Speaker posted:Is Horner's score entirely original or are some of the motifs and cadences borrowed from other composers? I'm familiar with composition for film enough to know that it's a pretty common thing that music gets re-used a lot. James Horner scored Enemy at the Gates lol. He was "notorious" for reusing his themes from film to film, but many other composers do the same. You can hear some of Horner's Aliens score, Troy/Enemy at the Gates score, etc., in several of Avatar's tracks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAIIdW62Cjk As an example of other composers "self-plagiarizing" here are tracks where Junkie XL/Tom Holkenborg basically took the cues he put together for Alita's theme and modified it to be the theme for Zack Snyder's Justice League, which are booth rooted from his work on the Fury Road score. Timestamped each video where the similarities start to be more obvious: Starts 2m32s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K_CzTLFpAA&t=152s Starts 2m14s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUY0_TZ0jdU&t=134s Starts 1m35s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4S5BlPrPNA&t=95s I personally refer to this as a composer's style put on display, but everyone is different. teagone fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Dec 24, 2022 |
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Dec 24, 2022 04:35
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teagone posted:James Horner scored Enemy at the Gates lol. He was "notorious" for reusing his themes from film to film, but many other composers do the same. Oh lol of course, idk why I didn't think of that first. Thanks!
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Dec 24, 2022 04:45
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With regard to frame rate and people debating 48fps, Jim if you're listening, stop loving around and do the next movie in straight up 120fps and melt everyones eyeballs.
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Dec 24, 2022 04:50
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Mister Speaker posted:Oh lol of course, idk why I didn't think of that first. Thanks! Yeah some people are/were bothered by Horner's explicit reusing of his themes across however many films, but to me it's no different that being able to recognize certain similar directorial trappings from guys like Spielberg or Tarantino that you can pick out from any film in their portfolio.
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Dec 24, 2022 04:52
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Mister Speaker posted:How is converting a film from the 90s that was shot in 24fps to a higher frame rate... any different from turning on the TruMotion setting on your TV? It's frame interpolation, isn't that exactly the same? Doing it offline means being able to draw from image data temporally in both directions rather than only previous frames and allowing for tweaking by hand to remove obvious artifacts.
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Dec 24, 2022 04:56
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SCheeseman posted:Doing it offline means being able to draw from image data temporally in both directions rather than only previous frames and allowing for tweaking by hand to remove obvious artifacts. That also makes a lot of sense, thanks. Is that a big part of the reason TruMotion looks so lovely, because it's only drawing information from the previous frame?
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Dec 24, 2022 05:14
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The thing is, "motion appearing smoother" does not equal "picture looking better." HFR can create to a sharper image because there's less motion blur, but sharpness isn't automatically better either. When it comes to photography, soft focus is often more pleasing than perfect focus
Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Dec 24, 2022 |
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Dec 24, 2022 05:31
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That synth voice at 1:19 in Titanic sounds so bad to me. They could have afforded some real voices.
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Dec 24, 2022 06:08
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teagone posted:What do you think if maybe Cameron had limited the HFR content to ONLY underwater sequences? I think that would have been the way to go for variable. Or do full sequences in HFR, not shot by shot. I saw it again in normal 3D and I really missed the underwater in HFR but I also enjoyed just being able to flow with the movie not go "oh drat" everytime they dropped out of HFR or "woah" everytime they cut back into it. I feel like there was never enough time unless it was an underwater sequence to soak in how wild HFR looks with this level of CGI.
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Dec 24, 2022 06:36
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I haven't seen this yet, looking forward to it. Cameron is interesting. Just wanted to say I appreciate the Duke Nukem reference in the thread title, and Duke Nukem is a great hero and legend.
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Dec 24, 2022 06:56
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Mister Speaker posted:That also makes a lot of sense, thanks. Is that a big part of the reason TruMotion looks so lovely, because it's only drawing information from the previous frame? It can look lovely for a lot of reasons, but that it's done in real time with limited data doesn't help.
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Dec 24, 2022 06:57
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Re: James Horner brass trills, if it's what I'm thinking of (after rewatching Avatar 1), he nailed that early, when some guys making a 1982 space movie asked him to avoid synth and write in some Hornblower style nautical flair. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoit0OdKt-I
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Dec 24, 2022 20:02
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Yep that's the motif! I think it sounds better in a different mode, the way it's used in Enemy at the Gates sounds particularly nefarious; in TWOW it's more sorrowful. drat I really should have checked Horner's credits on IMDB, he's way more storied than I thought. I've been meaning to rewatch (some of) the old Trek movies. Mostly I just want to show some friends The One With The Whales, but it's rare that friends want to do movie nights with me anymore.
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Dec 24, 2022 20:39
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This movie was exhaustingly long but god drat it ruled. Taking what felt like the first hour just to leave the forest and introduce it to the new location of the movie was wild. The world design and water effects were great. Then you have you flex shot of rain scenes on the ocean. loving hell what a film. I love how it wasted no time introducing so much insane shot and just ran with it. There’s a na’vi Jedi now.??????
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Dec 24, 2022 21:49
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:There’s a na’vi Jedi now.?????? She has mastered spirit-bending and waterbending. Now she just needs to master fire-bending and earth-bending before she becomes The Avatar- The Legend of Kiri. Vir fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 24, 2022 23:57
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Oh by way forgot to mention my favorite scene and it wasn’t a close contest: the outcast whale pumping itself into a frenzy before attacking. “Oh they got my friend? Well gently caress you gently caress this gently caress this rock in particular congratulations I am about to BREAK SOME poo poo”
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Dec 25, 2022 00:07
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I thought part of what was happening there was the turtlewhale muddying and disturbing the water to make it harder for the enemy mini-subs to track him.
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Dec 25, 2022 00:16
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Oh by way forgot to mention my favorite scene and it wasn’t a close contest: the outcast whale pumping itself into a frenzy before attacking. “Oh they got my friend? Well gently caress you gently caress this gently caress this rock in particular congratulations I am about to BREAK SOME poo poo” cameron leaning into the true message of the movie, pacifism is for idiots and righteous violence will save the day
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Dec 25, 2022 00:55
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Oh by way forgot to mention my favorite scene and it wasn’t a close contest: the outcast whale pumping itself into a frenzy before attacking. “Oh they got my friend? Well gently caress you gently caress this gently caress this rock in particular congratulations I am about to BREAK SOME poo poo” Yeah, same. By far the best staged "gently caress yeah" moment in the film for me, personally. Payakan is so cool  Both of Neytiri's action beats are right up there though, but I just love Payakan so much  Vir posted:I thought part of what was happening there was the turtlewhale muddying and disturbing the water to make it harder for the enemy mini-subs to track him. I read it as either 1) Payakan was making room for himself to gain enough momentum so he could leap out of the water and bodyslam the ship, or 2) he was psyching himself up by smashing reef rocks and kicking up sand to go and gently caress up all them bitches who were threatening the life of his soul bro. But could be what you mentioned too I guess, lol.
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Dec 25, 2022 01:03
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xiw posted:cameron leaning into the true message of the movie, pacifism is for idiots and righteous violence will save the day Yeah, The whales are pure pacifists and Payakan is an outcast forever for the crime of fighting back. He tells Lo'ak he knows he was wrong to and he would never do it again, but then as soon as his spirit bro and friends lives are being threatened he's pure  and saves the day. That philosophy might have guided them for thousands of years on holistic pandora, but the empty pacifism was unable to deal with a rise of fascism that is explicitly out to murder them and their children and can't be reasoned with or avoided. The only hero whale is the one who learns to adapt and recognize pacifism can't fight fascists, but murder can. Even at the very end, the message Jake takes away is "I can't save my family by avoiding a fight and hiding".
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Dec 25, 2022 04:51
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I cannot believe that Box Office Jim went so far in on the Hate Amerikkka Beat that he put in the literal Phoenix Program and had them torching villages like they're in Quảng Trị He even has Quartrich wearing a Phoenix Project patch on his tactical vest goddamn this movie rules
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Dec 25, 2022 05:20
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Wow had no idea that patch was a reference!
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Dec 25, 2022 06:35
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Yeah I thought it was just a clever name for Quaritch's unit/operation/whatever considering the whole "rebirth" context, but that it has a deeper reference is neat. Especially with how it's specifically tied to the villains, lol. Cameron owns.
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Dec 25, 2022 07:00
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AccountSupervisor posted:I think that would have been the way to go for variable. Or do full sequences in HFR, not shot by shot. Just saw it tonight in regular 3D HFR and this is exactly how I felt. I liked the HFR in the last two-thirds of the movie, but the switch between 24 and 48fps felt really random in a bunch of parts, especially in the first third. Like I noticed in some sequences there'd be 5 seconds of HFR, then a few seconds of low frame rate, then like 10 seconds of HFR, then another few seconds of low frame rate, and there was no immediately obvious explanation as to why. In future, I'd be all for offering a 100% HFR option, rather than the variable, as I felt it worked.
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Dec 25, 2022 07:28
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Zikan posted:I cannot believe that Box Office Jim went so far in on the Hate Amerikkka Beat that he put in the literal Phoenix Program and had them torching villages like they're in Quảng Trị drat I didn't know this either. Really puts the scene where he's trying to pry information from the Na'vi villagers in an even darker light. Straight up Barnes from Platoon poo poo. I was kind of hoping Jemaine Clement's character would have a stronger self-redemption. He sits there looking uncomfortably pensive and shooting sorry glances at Spider in just about every scene, but I don't recall him really doing much in the end other than ignore some of the captain's orders and sit back and embrace being killed by the whale. Is there something I missed here?
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Dec 25, 2022 08:23
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Mister Speaker posted:drat I didn't know this either. Really puts the scene where he's trying to pry information from the Na'vi villagers in an even darker light. Straight up Barnes from Platoon poo poo. We don't know that any of those guys are actually dead because they basically disappeared from the story just like the Metkayina did. We saw some of their boats crash and get destroyed. We certainly didn't see this for all the subs, we didn't see this for a lot of the inflatable boats they evidently had, we don't see them die. We didn't even see the whaler captain actually die, we just saw the high tension cable amputation so he could conceivably be back with a grudge. We just don't know how all that resolved. SadisTech fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 25, 2022 08:27
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I figure that character’s lack of a redemption paints him as someone self conscious to the cause but never woke up and did anything about it. A guilty conscience doesn’t help anybody if you don’t do anything to fight it. Like what if Sigourney Weaver never put her foot down? There’s a few ‘bad guys’ in this film whose characters parallel ‘good guys’ from the original. It’s really interesting bc these characters are given the same choices but the bad guys always choose the profit motive, while the good guys choose to prioritize Pandora.
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Dec 25, 2022 08:36
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SadisTech posted:We don't know that any of those guys are actually dead Oh poo poo, are we gonna get a Captain Ahab but with a futuristic peg arm instead?
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Dec 25, 2022 08:44
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What a waste of time that was. Evil colonialist soldiers fight against nature loving Maoris which are pure and good, if a bit territorial. The soldiers are very busy proving their vile character by threatening, torturing and shooting everyone (we really can't tell otherwise), while authoritarian father smurf, who prefers his sons to address him as sir, tries to keep the family together. The movie constantly reminds you of its simple morals with its banal, weak dialogues and good/bad dichotomy. The whole thing took itself too seriously. Can we please stop the trend to have torture in every action movie? The stupid smurfs with their serious expressions never worked for me as characters. I was close to burst out laughing when they gravely spoke about their nature-related new-age mysticism that comes about 30 years too late to be fashionable. Also there is rarely any quiet in that jungle or ocean, as there was always some howling, squeaking or grunting, as we needed to know exactly how all of its inhabitants felt. The action and those other creature designs were well done, but everything else, I don't know. Far too long for what it was about. This could have been told in 90 minutes and it would have been a more concise story. This was not for me, sorry.
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Dec 25, 2022 09:42
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Mister Speaker posted:drat I didn't know this either. Really puts the scene where he's trying to pry information from the Na'vi villagers in an even darker light. Straight up Barnes from Platoon poo poo. Jemaine's character was perfect for what he was representing. Those that know what they are involved in - or are actively furthering - is wrong, but because of The System are forced or find it easier to participate. Many people IRL participate in industries they find abhorrent, but because of capitalism it's either that or their families starve. I thought it showed Jim perfectly understands the problem lays with the system itself, and all the good-hearted people in it amount to squat if they continue to participate. His character reminded me of two novels; Mother Night, and The Golden Spruce.
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Dec 25, 2022 10:45
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lllllllllllllllllll posted:What a waste of time that was. Evil colonialist soldiers fight against nature loving Maoris which are pure and good, if a bit territorial. The soldiers are very busy proving their vile character by threatening, torturing and shooting everyone (we really can't tell otherwise), while authoritarian father smurf, who prefers his sons to address him as sir, tries to keep the family together. The movie constantly reminds you of its simple morals with its banal, weak dialogues and good/bad dichotomy. The whole thing took itself too seriously. Can we please stop the trend to have torture in every action movie? The stupid smurfs with their serious expressions never worked for me as characters. I was close to burst out laughing when they gravely spoke about their nature-related new-age mysticism that comes about 30 years too late to be fashionable. Also there is rarely any quiet in that jungle or ocean, as there was always some howling, squeaking or grunting, as we needed to know exactly how all of its inhabitants felt. The action and those other creature designs were well done, but everything else, I don't know. Far too long for what it was about. This could have been told in 90 minutes and it would have been a more concise story. This was not for me, sorry. Huh, I just realised I hadn't heard anyone make the Na'Vi = Smurf joke at all so far. Everyone was saying that back in 2009. Sort of makes me nostalgic.
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Dec 25, 2022 10:47
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Mister Speaker posted:Oh poo poo, are we gonna get a Captain Ahab but with a futuristic peg arm instead? That's what I'm assuming and I'll be pretty upset if it doesn't happen. Poacher goes full Captain Ahab and Jemaine joins the good guys
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Dec 25, 2022 11:55
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I watched Top Gun Maverick last night. Tom Cruise forced his fellow actors into the *sky*, whilst Jim Movies forced his cast into the *water*, both for the benefit of moviegoers on *earth* It’s like poetry. It rhymes
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Dec 25, 2022 13:45
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stev posted:Huh, I just realised I hadn't heard anyone make the Na'Vi = Smurf joke at all so far. Everyone was saying that back in 2009. Sort of makes me nostalgic. Does that make Jake Sully the Smurfette?
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Dec 25, 2022 15:26
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Saw this last night. Effects and CGI were great, I actually enjoyed the HFR shots, made it feel like I was watching a AAA game at max settings. The only part of the movie that legitimately hurt my eyes was the blurry effect they added when the colonel was waking up from the hospital bed, that poo poo hurts to watch in 3D. Couldn’t care less about the story, I went into it with no expectations and got about what I expected. It was very funny to me at the end when Jake proclaimed that he was now one of the sea people, after he had spent the entirety of the last movie trying to become one of the forest people. I expect each successive avatar movie to be him fleeing and moving from tribe to tribe, becoming one with the desert people, the volcano people, the plains people, etc. until James Cameron runs out of biome ideas to render in CGI
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Dec 25, 2022 16:00
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In avatar 8 he turns back into a human
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Dec 25, 2022 20:00
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Do we know whether Cameron only filmed some parts in HFR because of cost, or because he wanted to emphasize different shots/scenes? If it's the latter, why the inexplicable changes between 24 and 48 fps between shots within the same scene, such as some dialogue scenes? For such a particular director, its use really seemed ill-thought-out or sloppy at times.
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Dec 25, 2022 22:32
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Presumably the HFR is used to avoid jittering during pans and stuff like that?Mister Speaker posted:Oh poo poo, are we gonna get a Captain Ahab but with a futuristic peg arm instead? Kuiperdolin posted:In avatar 8 he turns back into a human
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Dec 25, 2022 23:07
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MeinPanzer posted:Do we know whether Cameron only filmed some parts in HFR because of cost, or because he wanted to emphasize different shots/scenes? If it's the latter, why the inexplicable changes between 24 and 48 fps between shots within the same scene, such as some dialogue scenes? Yeah, no, Cameron was very deliberate with his shot choice for where he'd apply HFR: I think this is the earliest he spoke of his views on HFR (circa 2016): quote:"I think [HFR] is a tool, not a format," Cameron told The Hollywood Reporter. "I think it's something you want to weave in and out and use when it soothes the eyes, especially in 3D during panning, movements that [create] artifacts that I find very bothersome. I want to get rid of that stuff, and you can do it through high frame rates." This was Cameron quoted around the time Gemini Man came out: James Cameron posted:I have a personal philosophy around high frame rate, which is that it is a specific solution to specific problems having to do with 3D. And when you get the strobing and the jutter of certain shots that pan or certain lateral movement across frame, it’s distracting in 3D. And to me, [high frame rate is] just a solution for those shots. I don’t think it’s a format. That’s just me personally. I know Ang sees it that way. I don’t think it’s like the next 70 millimetres or the next big thing. I think it’s a tool to be used to solve problems in 3D projection. I'm assuming he used TrueCut Motion's implementation of HFR in TWOW, using their specific tools, because that's what was implemented on the remasters for Avatar (released back in Sept) and Titanic (will release later next year). teagone fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 25, 2022 23:45
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Merry Christmas to Payakan the Tulkun
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Dec 26, 2022 00:24
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