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RenegadeStyle1 posted:I'm watching through old Raws and I'm in the mid 97. I just don't like the Hart foundation thing. I know it was super hot but to me it just feels like an extremely extended thing that wrestlers do for cheap heat where they just say "wow city sports team really sucked last night!" Has there ever been a storyline was was universally beloved that you guys didn't enjoy? Just a general question to everyone. Contemporaneously? Rock/Austin X7. Beyond the My Way Video, I wasn't really into it, especially since I think the greatest hits for Rock Austin build where between Rock/Austin IC Title and Rock/Austin XV. NWO as well, never really got into it.
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Dec 18, 2022 05:04
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davidbix posted:So basically. Do they call that pulling a Night of the Living Dead when you forget to show the copyright notice?
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Dec 18, 2022 15:59
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davidbix posted:So basically. The upshot is that because of this, I saw $500 per punch and McMemphis
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Dec 18, 2022 16:55
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The Rock vs Steve Austin feud in 2001 was pretty boring (and seemed to revolve around Debra being Rock's manager) but the match itself was a scorcher. There wasn't much else needed other than "I have returned from injury, won the Royal Rumble and am coming back for my title. I will do anything to prove that I am the best once more". Which, to be fair, is the story they told during the sit down interviews and in the match itself.
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Dec 19, 2022 10:26
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Can anyone pin point when the NWO started losing steam for the wider audience? or did no one care it was basically the same booking as hogan was doing in 95 except he was doing it to faces instead of heels and it was hot til like late 99?
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Dec 19, 2022 20:33
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Defenestrategy posted:Can anyone pin point when the NWO started losing steam for the wider audience? or did no one care it was basically the same booking as hogan was doing in 95 except he was doing it to faces instead of heels and it was hot til like late 99? Right after Starrcade 97. The Sting/Hogan rematch at Superbrawl did a fraction of what the Starrcade match. Their business was still great in 1998, and their audience grew, but that was because of Goldberg not the nWo.
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Dec 19, 2022 20:37
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MassRafTer posted:Right after Starrcade 97. The Sting/Hogan rematch at Superbrawl did a fraction of what the Starrcade match. Their business was still great in 1998, and their audience grew, but that was because of Goldberg not the nWo. Yeah, I would say that the mess surrounding Starrcade 97 was a huge road bump for the nWo concept, but they recovered by branching into the Wolfpac storyline. Taking the "cool heels" storyline and evolving it into "cool heels vs. cool tweeners offshoot" was a natural progression that people seemed to get behind. So completely undoing that with the Fingerpoke and going back to the status quo (while hurting Goldberg's momentum) was the point of no return.
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Dec 19, 2022 21:00
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There were a couple of prior warning signs. The January 1997 nWo-branded PPV didn't sell well (because they basically told people they were in charge and were gonna rig everything to go their way), and apparently ratings for the nWo takeover of Nitro weren't great.
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Dec 19, 2022 21:05
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If only they'd done a simple Wolfpac vs Hollywood Wargames in 98 with a "losing faction must disband" stipulation.
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Dec 20, 2022 01:14
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Maxwell Lord posted:There were a couple of prior warning signs. The January 1997 nWo-branded PPV didn't sell well (because they basically told people they were in charge and were gonna rig everything to go their way), and apparently ratings for the nWo takeover of Nitro weren't great. Really, I think the main thing that killed the nWo wasn't all the members or even that they won too much, but how powerful they were depicted as an entity. Namely how powerful Bischoff was as their leader. Vince and most of his copycats at least felt like they played by a set of rules where the faces could succeed. If you became champion, Vince would have to find some way to stack the odds against you, but at least accept that you are champion. If somebody got one over on the nWo, Bischoff could just walk out the next night, tell them to give the title back and we'd be at square one. Getting a real win over the nWo felt impossible. So of course, when they did shows that wallowed in their superiority, people tuned out.
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Dec 20, 2022 03:11
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Even when Vince did stack things against the face, like having his cronies take all the ringside authority roles of ref, timekeeper, announcer, etc., his character still followed the rules and if the face won, they won. Sure he's not gonna give up and might strip the title the next night but in his hubris he'll get sucked into a deal where the next time the face wins, he can't slime his way out of it. Bischoff, Hogan, and the nWo always just won, or the losses were just swerves, at least as much as I can remember.
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Dec 20, 2022 03:27
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Kosmo Gallion posted:If only they'd done a simple Wolfpac vs Hollywood Wargames in 98 with a "losing faction must disband" stipulation. StarrCade 97 should've been a definitive end to Hogan's title reign - if it had to go 15 minutes or whatever, then have Sting start hot, battering Hogan from pillar to post, Hogan takes control via outside interference, Horsemen, Steiners, Luger and DDP run in to batter the interfering nWo members and send them scurrying, Sting then OVERCOMES THE ODDS, KING and the presence of the Horsemen, Steiners, Luger and DDP on the outside forces Nick Patrick to make the count legit. If they needed to stretch out the nWo from there, then take it to Bash at the Beach 98, where the Horsemen (Flair, Benoit and Malenko, IIRC) team up with two former members (Sting and Luger) against the nWo (Hogan, Savage, Outsiders, Hennig), and have it ended definitively by, I dunno, Savage and Hennig acting as moles for WCW and the Horsemen respectively. Like, Hogan and the Outsiders looking baffled and bewildered, as Hennig does the Horsemen hand signal, and Savage finishes off Hogan with a top rope elbow. Something like that. Yes, I know, WCW and Hogan and politics.
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Dec 20, 2022 08:55
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Even when Vince did stack things against the face, like having his cronies take all the ringside authority roles of ref, timekeeper, announcer, etc., his character still followed the rules and if the face won, they won. Sure he's not gonna give up and might strip the title the next night but in his hubris he'll get sucked into a deal where the next time the face wins, he can't slime his way out of it. Yep, like during Austin vs McMahon, both gave as good as they got, and plenty of episodes ended with Austin standing triumphant while McMahon had a rage-induced conniption. Meanwhile, far too often, Nitro episodes ended with sweaty, leathery men gurning into the camera while shoving each other out of the way, while making noises like that guy from Deliverance made while he was bumming Ned Beatty, while the faces were beaten down and humiliated. And when that happens week-in week-out, why bother? I already saw this ending last week. And the week before that. And the week before that. And the week before that. Why would I give a poo poo?
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Dec 20, 2022 08:58
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I didn't like the nWo because they never actually felt like a stable competing with other stables. This might sound weird, but if they wanted "WCW vs. nWo," they actually didn't go far enough to establish what that looked like and what the consequences would be for one side winning. They had these ideas, like the Nitro takeover, nWo PPV, and the idea that wrestling was "gang war" and the referees would be calling matches based on what side came out on top without regard for the formal rules. But it was all inconsistent and confusing, even when they spent a lot of money on it. So while the nWo was beating everyone, expanding, and creating spinoff stables, the nature of the conflict was unclear to me. The nWo didn't feel like a stable, it felt like some kind of conglomerate that was gradually swallowing up WCW like Fox buying up TV stations or whatever. In practice, it felt like every goddamned match turned into an overbooked clusterfuck of run-ins. Then every other stable did the same thing and it suuucked. The nWo was way too dominant, but it wasn't just that they beat everyone, but that it rarely felt like a team beating another team. Who are these people, and why are they fighting, and for what? You know, the most basic thing in wrestling.
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Dec 20, 2022 15:47
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edogawa rando posted:StarrCade 97 should've been a definitive end to Hogan's title reign - if it had to go 15 minutes or whatever, then have Sting start hot, battering Hogan from pillar to post, Hogan takes control via outside interference, Horsemen, Steiners, Luger and DDP run in to batter the interfering nWo members and send them scurrying, Sting then OVERCOMES THE ODDS, KING and the presence of the Horsemen, Steiners, Luger and DDP on the outside forces Nick Patrick to make the count legit. I'd still do the Wolfpac vs Hollywood split. Just keep Hogan/Nash/Savage contained in the NWOverse. Have Sting, Flair, Bret, DDP, Goldberg, Booker T, Benoit, wrestle for the title while the NWO is concerned with devouring itself.
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Dec 20, 2022 15:49
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Halloween Jack posted:I didn't like the nWo because they never actually felt like a stable competing with other stables. This might sound weird, but if they wanted "WCW vs. nWo," they actually didn't go far enough to establish what that looked like and what the consequences would be for one side winning. This was my problem with it at the time and a gigantic flaw in many faction storylines since then: what tangible thing is at stake. "Honour" grudges and titles can only drive something so far. It was a problem with ic vs pinnacle, and it is with jas vs bcc.
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Dec 20, 2022 17:24
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What are some underrated debuts? I've been thinking about Nigel McGuiness in TNA. Turns up and beats Kurt Angle half to death with a chair and threatens to break his neck. Angle wins their first match (which was really good) by outwrestling McGuiness and catching him in a triangle choke, which McGuinness quickly taps out to because he's clever and knows he can't escape. It was really cool and instantly made me a fan of McGuinness.
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Dec 22, 2022 09:15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyOLGlScL0w Cringe. Thank god the Peacemaker made everyone love John Cena until he decided to wrestle for Vince again next week
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Dec 22, 2022 17:12
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Hirez posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyOLGlScL0w Shoutout to Kurt's odd inflected pronunciation of YOU-U.
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Dec 22, 2022 20:02
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Tbf, I was like 12 at the time and I thought this new guy was pretty cool.
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Dec 23, 2022 04:37
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I like how he shakes as he says "RUTHLESS... AGGRESSION!" like he's trying to brute force his way out of being constipated.
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Dec 23, 2022 07:11
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He 100% watched Vince say it like that when trying to convey the attitude he wanted out of him in the promo and just went “well, all right” and mimicked him exactly.
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Dec 23, 2022 07:33
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that story is the one I'm going to be telling as the truth from now on because thats exactly how vince would do it
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Dec 23, 2022 08:06
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Has there ever been a reigning champion who would steal signature moves from opponents they defended against? Not using the moves against them but like "I beat Jericho last week, so I'm going to put my opponent in the Liontamer next defense." Seems like it could be cool if done well. Or maybe this has been done a hundred times, what do I know.
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Dec 24, 2022 17:18
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apophenium posted:Has there ever been a reigning champion who would steal signature moves from opponents they defended against? Not using the moves against them but like "I beat Jericho last week, so I'm going to put my opponent in the Liontamer next defense."
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Dec 24, 2022 18:13
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jesus WEP posted:i think kenny did something a bit like this when he took over the bullet club, he started using devitt's bloody sunday and styles' styles clash. so not people he had beaten but people he had usurped. Kenny's G1 win had this and he even used the Phoenix Splash from Ibushi too
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Dec 24, 2022 18:24
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apophenium posted:Has there ever been a reigning champion who would steal signature moves from opponents they defended against? Not using the moves against them but like "I beat Jericho last week, so I'm going to put my opponent in the Liontamer next defense." Wrestling Mega Man is a gimmick I never knew I wanted. 
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Dec 25, 2022 08:31
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I feel like it's happened somewhere, like Memphis or thereabouts. Edit: I just realised I was thinking of someone literally dressing up as Mega Man to wrestle. edogawa rando fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 25, 2022 08:32
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I want to say Velveteen Dream did it in the lead up to his first Aleister match, but I’m probably misremembering.
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Dec 25, 2022 09:40
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I've seen a lot of highlight matches on youtube, but I've wanted to get into NJPW. Is there a "golden age", or some of the best storylines to follow? Or rather, where the hell do I even start with actually watching NJPW (and where can I watch it?). Interested in kinda watching the best of it rather than just starting to follow it from now on, but I wanna watch storylines more than just highlight matches.
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Dec 25, 2022 11:03
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Kvlt! posted:I've seen a lot of highlight matches on youtube, but I've wanted to get into NJPW. Is there a "golden age", or some of the best storylines to follow? Or rather, where the hell do I even start with actually watching NJPW (and where can I watch it?). Interested in kinda watching the best of it rather than just starting to follow it from now on, but I wanna watch storylines more than just highlight matches. Two possible approaches: 1) start with a big tournament. The G1 is always a good one for storytelling and is a bunch of shows that follow on from each other with great wrestling. 2) jump in with a Wrestle Kingdom. Biggest show of the year. Follow it with New Year's Dash, where they reset and restart storylines. Best place to watch is New Japan World. 999 yen a month for all shows.
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Dec 25, 2022 11:20
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Kvlt! posted:I've seen a lot of highlight matches on youtube, but I've wanted to get into NJPW. Is there a "golden age", or some of the best storylines to follow? Or rather, where the hell do I even start with actually watching NJPW (and where can I watch it?). Interested in kinda watching the best of it rather than just starting to follow it from now on, but I wanna watch storylines more than just highlight matches. The Showbuckle pack on archive.org is always a great place to start for guides to the big stoylines: https://archive.org/details/showbuckle-pack. Check out the Golden Lovers vid especially. NJPW is available at https://njpwworld.com/. It bills when you sign up and at the start of the month so it might be worth waiting for Wrestle Kingdom to actually start subscribing. The most recent golden age of NJPW was the Bushiroad golden age where Gedo became booker, Bushiroad provides real money, and most of the hit factions like Bullet Club, Suzuki-gun and LIJ were formed. It's a slow recovery from the Puro dark age of the 00s/Inokism and covers esentially ~2010 to the pandemic. The Voices of Wrestling New Japan year books are a great guide to the height of the period. https://www.voicesofwrestling.com/books/ The G1 tournaments have their own contained storylines and are entirely composed of great matches. So picking a G1 from the last 10 years and following that might be a good place to get into NJPW stories. They are exhausting though, skip the preview tag matches. fez_machine fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 25, 2022 11:22
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Lamuella posted:Two possible approaches:  but don’t sign up to NJPW world until the 1st of the month because they don’t rebill based on your sign up, they just do it on the 1st of the month so you’ll wind up paying a whole month for just a few days access before they charge you again
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Dec 25, 2022 11:35
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A big problem for someone coming over from American style wrestling, at least as I see it, is that New Japan doesn't do nearly as many promo segments per show. It's pretty much the winner of the main event each show gets to say "thanks for coming, here's when we'll be back to this town, here's when my next big match is". The real juice comes from backstage, pretty much everyone on the show gets a postmatch interview which goes up with subtitles a day or two afterwards. This is where we get the weird character stuff like KENTA being in love with Yoshi-Hashi's bo staff, ZSJ whinging about the Boris Johnson government or Kota Ibushi not knowing how to be a human anymore once he beat his idols and became a god. It's all great stuff for falling in love with the roster but it requires seeking out to get the full context on the matches happening The Showbuckle stuff is a great shout. fez_machine already highlighted the Golden Lovers video, but the Okada/Tanahashi, Shibata and Naito vids are fantastic ways for condense what was years of matches into 20 minute cliffnotes so if you decide to watch the full matches you can do so with more context
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Dec 25, 2022 11:48
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A question inspired by the raw vs smackdown game I owned on ps2: Who was Rico and what was their deal
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Dec 25, 2022 14:47
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Activate posted:A question inspired by the raw vs smackdown game I owned on ps2: Who was Rico and what was their deal In storyline, Rico was the hairstylist for Chuck and Billy, a gay gimmick done with all the taste and sensitivity you'd expect from Vince. He was around for a couple of years, was part of an odd couple team with Rikishi and won the belts but turned on Rikishi so Chuck and Billy could win them. Got a weird upset victory over Flair. According to Wikipedia he got really popular right before he was let go.
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Dec 25, 2022 14:56
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Rico Costantino(?) was a fake gay hairdresser that started as fake gay tag team Billy & Chuck’s manager if I’m not mistaken. Biggest thing I can remember is that there’s a clip of him in a match standing on the top rope screaming “Get the gently caress over here Jeff!” because Hardy was clearly on something, wandering around the ring missing his spots.
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Dec 25, 2022 14:58
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Activate posted:A question inspired by the raw vs smackdown game I owned on ps2: Who was Rico and what was their deal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rico_Constantino
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Dec 25, 2022 15:02
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Up until like a month ago I thought Rico was the same guy as Lodi but when I started watching old Nitros I figured out they weren't.
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Dec 25, 2022 15:05
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Activate posted:A question inspired by the raw vs smackdown game I owned on ps2: Who was Rico and what was their deal On top of everything else that was said he was a really hyped prospect in OVW but was much older than fans realized (he's 60+ now.) This wasn't something he was hiding from the company like the Boogeyman tried just something people watching didn't realize.
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Dec 25, 2022 16:18
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