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Do replicated phasers come out of the machine fully charged and with all the latest firmware updates applied? Or does the Weapons officer always need to find spare USB-F cables and plug them in?
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Dec 26, 2022 08:15
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John Wick of Dogs posted:The Vau Nkats most recent genocidal civil war occurred when they were trying to decide which colors traffic lights should be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddxIfMRZemc
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Dec 26, 2022 08:17
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Can you replicate a GameCube
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Dec 26, 2022 12:56
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My personal assumption is that at a minimum, starship hull plating and structural framing, plus whatever makes up warp coils, all has to be manufactured (or at least molecularly assembled out of existing materials) rather than replicated. Also, I would assume that replicating a fully-charged phaser is possible but wasteful and/or relatively dangerous, which is why they keep them stored to dramatically pass out instead of just popping phaser rifles out of the replicators whenever they need one.
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Dec 26, 2022 13:51
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Well, you also don't want to be relying on replicators in a crisis when they might be down. Or waiting for them to slowly replicate one phaser after another. The cardassian replicator replicated a phaser autoturret but it was powered from the replicator itself.
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Dec 26, 2022 14:18
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Kesper North posted:They can make small machines. This is screen canon from Samaritan Snare; the Pakleds start replicating Geordi's phaser. Yeah, there's a lot of variability. Some Cardassian replicators are programmed to make death blossom disruptors, for instance. I don't think you could just go up to a standard Federation replicator and request a phaser unless it was the right replicator and you had the right authorization codes.
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Dec 26, 2022 14:55
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AJA posted:Congratulations, you made the baby Jesus cry on his special day And I suffered for it. 
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Dec 26, 2022 15:44
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Roadie posted:My personal assumption is that at a minimum, starship hull plating and structural framing, plus whatever makes up warp coils, all has to be manufactured (or at least molecularly assembled out of existing materials) rather than replicated. Must be possible, given the amount of times they confine someone to quarters and turn the replicators off so they can't replicate a weapon. I have a feeling it's just because it adds an extra layer of variables to a gnarly situation, often if you're going to the weapons lockers on a starship in a hurry you're pretty screwed.
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Dec 26, 2022 16:51
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Conspiracy X had the concept of three kinds of replicators; single use; drop this little ball, and ten minutes later you have a diamond motorcycle sitting at the bottom of a pit; small scale of the “tea, earl grey, hot” variety, and industrial, that could turn out large stuff. Or, you know, dispose of it. For something like a starship, it’s probably faster to be building the old fashioned way, rather than by molecular layer by molecular layer.
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Dec 26, 2022 18:20
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Kesper North posted:They can make small machines. This is screen canon from Samaritan Snare; the Pakleds start replicating Geordi's phaser. Also, exocomps replicate all sorts of high-tech engineering widgets to put on their snouts.
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Dec 26, 2022 18:23
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Professor Beetus posted:I realize this is the modern star trek thread but we're on The Neutral Zone in TNG season 1 in our franchise watch, and god drat do I want to shake Picard like a baby and yell "you literally have 1000 people on this starship, including a 20th century historian, surely you can think of a better way to deal with this!" Like it's such a fun concept for an episode but pretty much everyone outside of Data and Troi seem to be written as stupidly as possible. I would absolutely love to see a Lower Decks take on this, or an episode where they follow up on these 20th century characters. Or the one that came back with Kirk in STIV. I think they would do a bang up job with the concept. Offenhouse shows back up as one of the main guest characters in the novel, Debtor's Planet. Offenhouse really likes the Ferengi because he recognizes them as the same kind of greedy assholes he used to deal with back in his Gordon Gecko days on Earth.
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Dec 26, 2022 18:55
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HD DAD posted:I just assumed the Franklin was meant to be a beefed up NX class. I thought Franklin was older than the NX
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Dec 26, 2022 22:58
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MikeJF posted:Well, you also don't want to be relying on replicators in a crisis when they might be down. Or waiting for them to slowly replicate one phaser after another. Something else to remember is that on a ship/station, the replicators are basically tied into a transporter network in the ship; so rather than actually taking the effort to assemble a whole new phaser from constituent elements, it could just be beaming in a spare phaser (or tricorder, or whatever) from a bin of spares down in the cargo bay.
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Dec 26, 2022 23:00
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MikeJF posted:I wouldn't be surprised if there's certain other things that can't really be replicated and have to be manufactured instead. Warp coils, for example, I bet use special poo poo that's beyond a replicator. Warp coils are big, too. I mean, jesus, I think a warp coil on a Galaxy class has a bigger diameter than the entire engineering section of a Constitution-class ship. EDIT: okay I looked this one up and I don't think that's the case. They're still pretty big though. But yeah, if I were in charge of Star Trek I'd say there's some added complexity/secret sauce that makes warp coils and other certain items very impractical, if not utterly beyond Federation technology, to spit out of a replicator.
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Dec 26, 2022 23:09
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I thought Franklin was older than the NX Franklin’s history is kind of a mess because it fucks with an early Enterprise episode that talks about the NX/Warp 5 program. They handwave it as actually being a MACO ship that was folded into Starfleet after its founding, which is another interesting idea that still doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. quote:Launch date It’s a lot easier to just handwave it as “the Kelvin timeline has always been different from the Prime timeline and the events of ST09 were just one inflection point of many.”
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Dec 26, 2022 23:35
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Wasn't there an interview with the person who designed it and he said that it was basically an accident that it resembled the NX01era stuff?
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Dec 26, 2022 23:39
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Warp coils are big, too. I mean, jesus, I think a warp coil on a Galaxy class has a bigger diameter than the entire engineering section of a Constitution-class ship. EDIT: okay I looked this one up and I don't think that's the case. They're still pretty big though. It's played for  comedy because the Cerritos crew are taken totally by surprise when entire buildings start dropping into place around them, but treating the transporter as a replicator that can put whatever you want wherever you need it within thousands of miles is a logical development of the tech.Now, imagine the weapon pod from 'Civil Defense' except you can beam it wherever you like, in as large a number as you need. And it can fly around like an exocomp, because why not? (Actually, it strikes me having typed that that what Star Trek needs is something that makes drone warfare impossible - preferably better than Disco's "Oh, time travel was banned and everybody totally obeys that rule.")
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Dec 27, 2022 00:26
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Behold, the USS gently caress You. Comprised of a huge matter reservoir, powerful engines, and a poo poo load of industrial replicators programmed to pump out huge clouds of gun-drones.
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Dec 27, 2022 00:32
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Behold, the USS gently caress You. Comprised of a huge matter reservoir, powerful engines, and a poo poo load of industrial replicators programmed to pump out huge clouds of gun-drones. So this  but with warp nacelles? Got it.
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Dec 27, 2022 00:42
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Payndz posted:(Actually, it strikes me having typed that that what Star Trek needs is something that makes drone warfare impossible - preferably better than Disco's "Oh, time travel was banned and everybody totally obeys that rule.") The Doyleist answer is that it's the exact same reason the captain doesn't just order the computer into Battle Reflex Mode and let it handle combat; because (as far as action sequences go, anyway) we're not here to watch a show that accurately depicts combat between starships, we're here for sensationally exciting space opera. Hell, The Ultimate Computer practically comes out and directly says it, when it explicitly depicts M-5 being able to control the Enterprise far more effectively than a fully trained crew ever did, and then has Spock say "this ship runs on loyalty." The Watsonian answer is writer's choice of it being more efficient/effective to just use the energy needed to replicate/transport drones to make the phasers and shields of the mothership stronger, and/or all the major spacefaring powers have already found and learned lessons from the remains of a dozen extinct/trapped civilizations that made the fatal mistake of turning all their affairs over to self-directing computers.
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Dec 27, 2022 01:35
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Behold, the USS gently caress You. Comprised of a huge matter reservoir, powerful engines, and a poo poo load of industrial replicators programmed to pump out huge clouds of gun-drones.
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Dec 27, 2022 01:40
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:The Doyleist answer is that it's the exact same reason the captain doesn't just order the computer into Battle Reflex Mode and let it handle combat; because (as far as action sequences go, anyway) we're not here to watch a show that accurately depicts combat between starships, we're here for sensationally exciting space opera. Hell, The Ultimate Computer practically comes out and directly says it, when it explicitly depicts M-5 being able to control the Enterprise far more effectively than a fully trained crew ever did, and then has Spock say "this ship runs on loyalty." I mean, Bolo throws the AIs into battle reflex mode al the drat time, and that’s what makes it interesting; your tank AI having a philosophical debate with itself while it destroys entire armies.
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Dec 27, 2022 05:45
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Payndz posted:Actually, it strikes me having typed that that what Star Trek needs is something that makes drone warfare impossible - preferably better than Disco's "Oh, time travel was banned and everybody totally obeys that rule." Remoted piloted drones get their signal hijacked, and autonomus drones keep murdering their creators? I did notice that TOS really had it out for anyone with an afinity for technology besides Scotty. Because the aforementioned inventor of the duotronic and multitronic systems, Richard Daystrom had a nervous breakdown when the M-5 started killing people, and he designer of the Enterprise's engines Larry Marvik attempts to blow up the ship after going murderously insane after looking at a Medusan. I have a feeling that time travel tech is "banned" by the Federation in the 32nd century like genetic manipulation is "banned" in the 23rd. Of course the *Federation* wouldn't be caught doing that, how dare! But the Federation is absolutely reaping the benefits when it suits them like Stamets' injecting himself with the DNA of extra-dimensional alien and mutli-dimensional fungi. Stamets is never tried in canon, he's not even kicked out of Star Fleet after the war ends, and Star Fleet doesn't hesitate to re-activate the spore drive project when it's convient for them to do so. Contrast this with how in Strange New Worlds Una Chin-Riley is court martialed and thrown out of Star Fleet for being Illyrian, even though her genetic modifcation saved the lives of her fellow crew members. I think time travel that uses time crystals and similar devices that emits tachyon radiation are banned because you can track it. The Guardian of Forever can do whatever the gently caress they want because their gate is untraceable. ( I think the Mycelial Network could be used as a non-trackable time travel system is possible as well, but I'm not entirely sure what the Watsonian reason for the burst of light upon exiting and re-entry of normal space is made up of, and whether it's novel enough to be traced. )
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Dec 27, 2022 06:13
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People rightly criticize it for being an incomprehensible VFX diarreah disaster, but the final battle of Discovery's second season actually kind of is a frighteningly accurate depiction of what a battle against a micro drone swarm would be like. Just thousands to millions of little chunks of metal zipping everywhere unconstrained by the physical limitations of human pilots and armed with whatever weaponry needed to get the job done. It WOULD look like a hard to follow frenzied mess until it was all over.
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Dec 27, 2022 06:55
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TheCenturion posted:I mean, Bolo throws the AIs into battle reflex mode al the drat time, and that’s what makes it interesting; your tank AI having a philosophical debate with itself while it destroys entire armies. I'm not saying that can't be a good story, I'm just saying that's not the story Star Trek is here to tell.
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Dec 27, 2022 06:58
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Payndz posted:Now, imagine the weapon pod from 'Civil Defense' except you can beam it wherever you like, in as large a number as you need. And it can fly around like an exocomp, because why not? (Actually, it strikes me having typed that that what Star Trek needs is something that makes drone warfare impossible - preferably better than Disco's "Oh, time travel was banned and everybody totally obeys that rule.") They've kinda soft answered this with it being a power issue: the weapon pod from Civil Defence was visibly drawing power from a replicator, and the weapons platforms from Tears of the Prophets needed to be wirelessly powered from a central reactor, which became the vulnerability. Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Something else to remember is that on a ship/station, the replicators are basically tied into a transporter network in the ship; so rather than actually taking the effort to assemble a whole new phaser from constituent elements, it could just be beaming in a spare phaser (or tricorder, or whatever) from a bin of spares down in the cargo bay. Or halfway in between: we know there are matter tanks that keep medium forms of matter that are most commonly used, there may be replicator source storage that keep common componentry pre-existing and 90% of the insides of a phaser can come from that. It might be that creating a phaser fully from scratch takes five times as long to replicate and twenty times the energy or something. Similarly, rather than being able to replicate entire outposts at once the Aledo might've been replicating bits and pieces as it flew to the destination and just beamed it into the final structure. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Dec 27, 2022 |
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Dec 27, 2022 07:39
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I bet there's a standard structural polymer or something that's the basic component of most replicated things on a starship, from dinner plates to PADD casings to walls to coffee tables, and there's just a big brick of it downstairs, when you replicate a table it just beams out a table-shape chunk of that and then applies a surface texture to make it look and feel how you want. You can request a full wood table but who cares?
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Dec 27, 2022 07:52
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Warp coils are big, too. I mean, jesus, I think a warp coil on a Galaxy class has a bigger diameter than the entire engineering section of a Constitution-class ship. EDIT: okay I looked this one up and I don't think that's the case. They're still pretty big though. Well, that explains why Starbases are so large - to fit the nacelle replicators.
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Dec 27, 2022 07:54
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Maybe they can't replicate and assemble starship hulls but by bit because the structural layer is one of those ultrastrong 600 metre long single molecule metamaterials and they need to extrude it.
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Dec 27, 2022 07:57
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MikeJF posted:I bet there's a standard structural polymer or something that's the basic component of most replicated things on a starship, from dinner plates to PADD casings to walls to coffee tables, and there's just a big brick of it downstairs, when you replicate a table it just beams out a table-shape chunk of that and then applies a surface texture to make it look and feel how you want. You can request a full wood table but who cares? I made a joke either in this thread or the other one long ago about the wormhole minefield just pulling random bits of DS9 away to catalyze into raw materials for the self-replicating mines. So like Gul Dukat orders a sweep of the minefield in the morning, and by lunchtime his toilet has mysteriously disappeared.
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Dec 27, 2022 07:57
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Heh. I think in the tech manuals the minefield had every mine has a specialised onboard replicator/recycler that will recycle debris from exploded mines and ships into their tanks, the tanks are all full to start with, as a network they share matter between each other's tanks, and they pull plasma for both matter and energy from the denorios plasma belt that the wormhole sits in/generates.
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Dec 27, 2022 08:00
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Professor Beetus posted:I realize this is the modern star trek thread but we're on The Neutral Zone in TNG season 1 in our franchise watch, and god drat do I want to shake Picard like a baby and yell "you literally have 1000 people on this starship, including a 20th century historian, surely you can think of a better way to deal with this!" Like it's such a fun concept for an episode but pretty much everyone outside of Data and Troi seem to be written as stupidly as possible. I would absolutely love to see a Lower Decks take on this, or an episode where they follow up on these 20th century characters. Or the one that came back with Kirk in STIV. I think they would do a bang up job with the concept. lol alien on the view screen yells TROY: "captain I sense anger and agitation" another time Alien acting shady as gently caress TROY: "I sense they are hiding something"
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Dec 27, 2022 08:57
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Payndz posted:(Actually, it strikes me having typed that that what Star Trek needs is something that makes drone warfare impossible - preferably better than Disco's "Oh, time travel was banned and everybody totally obeys that rule.") Uh, they don't need a rule because it is self evident: AI always goes sapient eventually. Always. Sometimes it becomes hostile, sometimes it just fucks off, but at some point it will always become self-determined and put it's own desires above those of the meat bags that made it. Data is an example of the AI going rogue. Data wasn't made by starfleet, and his dad wasn't thrilled that he'd joined starfleet. He determined for himself that starfleet's goals and ethics were compatible with his own and that's what he wanted to do. Soong made several versions of positronic AI and none of them turned out the way he wanted. AI is always a wayward child doing it's own thing.
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Dec 27, 2022 09:31
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Payndz posted:"Oh, time travel was banned and everybody totally obeys that rule.") Everybody had their fingers crossed behind their backs until the Guardian of Forever signed on, because the Guardian doesn't gently caress around. And the Guardian can enforce the treaty on anyone else, except for maybe the Q.
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Dec 27, 2022 09:39
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There are plenty of references in the shows that suggest replicated food is different enough from "natural food to have a taste difference. I chalk that up to them taking shortcuts with replication patterns, storing them more procedurally than the exact info a transporter temporarily stores. So fancy tech that needs to be perfectly accurate on a molecular level probably takes more resources to make. Then as you scale up there's more chance of something going wrong. A whole nacelle is potentially hundreds of thousands of times more massive than a hand phaser, so the replication has a lot more chance of running into errors and inaccuracies.
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Dec 27, 2022 10:01
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Senor Tron posted:There are plenty of references in the shows that suggest replicated food is different enough from "natural food to have a taste difference. I chalk that up to them taking shortcuts with replication patterns, storing them more procedurally than the exact info a transporter temporarily stores. So fancy tech that needs to be perfectly accurate on a molecular level probably takes more resources to make. Then as you scale up there's more chance of something going wrong. A whole nacelle is potentially hundreds of thousands of times more massive than a hand phaser, so the replication has a lot more chance of running into errors and inaccuracies. Those people are just be annoying contraians, every time Troi eats a replicated chocolate sundae she''s like 'mmmmm that was a tasty chocolate sundae  '
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Dec 27, 2022 10:30
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I reckon it's just the replicator is too samey.
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Dec 27, 2022 10:33
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The show tells us there’s a difference, therefore there’s a difference. The replicator’s also using the exact same pattern for your food every time you order it. Sure that steak is wonderful the first time you eat it, but the 5th time? The 50th? At that point it becomes a monotonous ration. It makes sense that after a tour on a starship you’d be able to discern the difference between “Shrimp & Andouille Gumbo with White Rice #3” and the fresh homemade equivalent at Sisko’s restaurant and obviously see the latter as being superior.
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Dec 27, 2022 10:38
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The show tells us there’s a difference, therefore there’s a difference. The show is heavily inconsistent on this front. It was perfect at the start of TNG and then later writers wanted to make it imperfect so they could have people go on monologues about it.
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Dec 27, 2022 10:51
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 12:21 |
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Replicated food is the $3 ramen bowl you can pick up at the grocery store, real food is the Okinawa ramen Mariner suggested stopping for on their way back from dropping AGIMUS off at Daystrom. Both are food, both are ramen, but there's a difference you'll notice if you've had both
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Dec 27, 2022 11:24
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