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Irony Be My Shield posted:I don't find it hard to believe that the 50 staff could prepare the mansion to run on its own for a weekend. Neither do I but if they needed a line to explain it then even the scriptwriters thought something was off. They just papered over it instead of fine tuning. Maybe they were in too deep to rethink the location. It's a line from the same proud lineage as "The Moon's gravitational field obscured our warp signature. The Vulcans did not detect us." So yeah, the script isn't very tight. There are attempts at a message in there but it's muddled and confused. It's like a seam in the wallpaper. If you like the pattern enough you can look past it.
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Dec 27, 2022 15:19
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I didn't like this as much as Knives Out, but I think that's due to me personally enjoying the cast of Knives Out a lot more. I enjoyed the mystery, the characters, and Benoit seemed like a much more fun and fleshed out character to me this time around. No real complaints at all, it was a super fun movie. That said, the Ben Shapiro online meltdown has elevated this one to an all-time great film, I practically consider it a post-credit scene.
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Dec 27, 2022 15:49
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MikeJF posted:I'm kinda disappointed Serena didn't end up witnessing and given them a key piece of information. It’s lucky happenstance. Miles says he planned for all the lights to go out at 10:00 as part of his murder mystery. He realizes in the moment the auspicious timing of the black out and goes to put Blanc’s “shoot someone in the dark” plan in motion.
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Dec 27, 2022 15:53
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Marx Headroom posted:Neither do I but if they needed a line to explain it then even the scriptwriters thought something was off. They just papered over it instead of fine tuning. Maybe they were in too deep to rethink the location. It's a line from the same proud lineage as "The Moon's gravitational field obscured our warp signature. The Vulcans did not detect us." It’s extremely straight-forward and self-explanatory, my dude
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Dec 27, 2022 15:53
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I feel like the cast in the end turning on Miles comes out of nowhere. The entire film tells us these people are loser coward parasites, and ten minutes before they turn in him they are still loser coward parasites who refuse to stand against him. It makes way more thematic sense in terms of everything we know about them and the world this movie is presenting - and then they all have a change of heart? Feels very weak to me.
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Dec 27, 2022 16:13
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Calico Heart posted:I feel like the cast in the end turning on Miles comes out of nowhere. The entire film tells us these people are loser coward parasites, and ten minutes before they turn in him they are still loser coward parasites who refuse to stand against him. It makes way more thematic sense in terms of everything we know about them and the world this movie is presenting - and then they all have a change of heart? Feels very weak to me. BUt again, it's pretty clearly spelled out: yes they still absolutely are loser coward parasites it's just that the big fish they were latching onto just lost all his loving clout. The failure of Klear puts him on the outs with the board of directors of his company as well as all the corporate/country heads who he was teasing with big news. The destruction of the Mona Lisa pisses off the international community and tanks his credibility in everyone else's eyes. He sank a bunch of his company's money into R&D for Klear and now it's a total dud, he has no more trump cards to play so the loser parasites just realized they are better off abandoning the sinking ship like rats.
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Dec 27, 2022 16:22
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Yeah, the film is overt that Bron's coterie are horrible people in their own right and remain so after the climax. All that's different is Bron can't dangle their meal ticket any longer, so they're happy to turn on him. No real change of heart is necessary.
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Dec 27, 2022 16:55
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precision posted:Everyone talking about Bron being Elon or Jobs and I'm more tickled that we got Batista as Alex Jones Alex Jones/Andrew Tate I think. The shitbag "prime male" influencer that seems super popular lately yet keeps getting in legal trouble constantly. I remember like the day after I heard who Andrew Tate even was from somebody was when he originally got banned just about everywhere. I also Instantly knew based on the persons description of his channel before even asking that he was insanely popular with a certain crowd. The scene that killed me with him in it the most was when he gets done some big male power speech on his channel and then yelle at his mom and she slaps him and makes him apologize sheepishly after trying to pull his channel antics on her cause you almost just know that's how it is with some of these types when the camers arent on. Kale fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Dec 27, 2022 |
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Dec 27, 2022 17:22
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QuoProQuid posted:It’s lucky happenstance. Nah, Bron was lying about having it planned for the murder mystery. He could have set it while everyone was dealing with Duke dying so he can use the gun to kill "Andi". It fits more with him getting the whole idea from Benoit and acting before thinking.
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Dec 27, 2022 17:26
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Kale posted:The scene that killed me with him in it the most was when he gets done some big male power speech on his channel and then yelle at his mom and she slaps him and makes him apologize sheepishly after trying to pull his channel antics on her cause you almost just know that's how it is with some of these types when the camers arent on. Also just the fun of the way she's obviously far, far smarter than him or indeed any of the disruptors.
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Dec 27, 2022 17:32
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Kale posted:Alex Jones/Andrew Tate I think. The shitbag "prime male" influencer that seems super popular lately yet keeps getting in legal trouble constantly. I remember like the day after I heard who Andrew Tate even was from somebody was when he originally got banned just about everywhere. I also Instantly knew based on the persons description of his channel before even asking that he was insanely popular with a certain crowd. He's also got a bit of a "jock gamer" energy to him, someone like Dr. Disrespect. He is probably a pastiche of several different breeds of influencers tbh, none of the characters (even Bron) are probably supposed to be direct parodies of specific people, more like archetypes. There's also a bunch of weird alt-right fuckers who started as gaming streamers/youtubers who transformed due to Gamergate into just alt-right madmen, but he doesn't fit these idiots visually, even if thematically he fits quite well.
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Dec 27, 2022 17:59
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Yeah, I do kind of agree that the Bron being a 1:1 Musk analogue is really contextual. He's a huge influence, but it's not like his biography is 1:1 or anything. It's just one part of the movie REALLY resonates. Duke is more about vibes than anything else. The breastification of men is painfully on point though. One weird thing I read is that people are somewhat pissed about the film taking place during COVID, seeing it as unnecessary. Which is weird as a bunch of plot elements kinda of require it and Blanc's whole story starts with him struggling in lockdown.
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Dec 27, 2022 18:19
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MikeJF posted:Also just the fun of the way she's obviously far, far smarter than him or indeed any of the disruptors. Yeah I liked how the only one that was even kind of contributing was The chemist guy Lionel who seemed like the only one of the group with even half a brain and the others just happened to be lucky to enough to have curious people that actually drat well know anything around them to contribute clues or solution. Then Helen realizing the whole thing is just made of wood and plastic just smashes the box actually "solvingn" it fastest That whole sequence was a great send up of fail upward culture
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Dec 27, 2022 18:23
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SpiritOfLenin posted:He's also got a bit of a "jock gamer" energy to him, someone like Dr. Disrespect. He is probably a pastiche of several different breeds of influencers tbh, none of the characters (even Bron) are probably supposed to be direct parodies of specific people, more like archetypes. There's also a bunch of weird alt-right fuckers who started as gaming streamers/youtubers who transformed due to Gamergate into just alt-right madmen, but he doesn't fit these idiots visually, even if thematically he fits quite well. He's got a bunch of nerd tattoos on his fingers (KOTOR, Superman, Trek, Avengers, etc; they're apparently Bautista's, but Johnson chose to make them very deliberately visible so they likely inform Duke's backstory too), so he's probably out of nerd fandom, being a gamer then gamergater fits. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Dec 27, 2022 |
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Dec 27, 2022 18:24
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Helen mentions he was doing video game tournaments. Whether that was mainly as a competitor, promoter, commentator, or tech support isn't clear but a lot of the time in that scene everyone wears a lot of hats.
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Dec 27, 2022 18:26
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Kale posted:The scene that killed me with him in it the most was when he gets done some big male power speech on his channel and then yelle at his mom and she slaps him and makes him apologize sheepishly after trying to pull his channel antics on her cause you almost just know that's how it is with some of these types when the camers arent on. I dunno, "rear end in a top hat who acts tough actually lives in his mother's basement" felt like a pretty tired joke.
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Dec 27, 2022 18:57
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The Ninth Layer posted:As an aside I think what makes a lot of these sequences hard to process for me is, if this story happened irl there would be about 300 steps of reparation between a Miles type billionaire and anyone a guy like that would want killed or dead. Why would you ever go to Andi's house to kill her when you could instead pay someone to pay someone to do it for you. If that was an option available to him in the movie it would be super dumb for him to do these killings personally. Obviously that wouldn't make for an interesting movie but it was unclear to me whether Miles (for example) had the ability to call in security and neutralize his guests if they did decide to turn him in. Sio I kept thinking why would you do this in your island, how do you see yourself getting out of this any way short of killing all of your guests to ensure their silence. Those things aren't really fair for the movie to consider but they did affect how I reacted to the story. Why would Miles know who to pay to pay someone to kill someone? He's not a guy who runs the Umbrella Corporation or some other thing that has ruthless mercenaries on speed-dial. If Miles had had a few weeks or so, maybe he could have figured something out, but he didn't. He had to try to get rid of Andi right the gently caress then. Ditto Duke.
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Dec 27, 2022 18:59
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I liked Knives Out a lot better. This felt really tedious to watch and like Rian Johnson just couldn't stop telling instead of showing. I really hated the whole Twin trope. Did laugh pretty good at the sweat shop joke and Benoit solving the murder mystery instantly. Felt like the cast other than Craig and Monae was really wasted and not given all that much to do. 6.5/10
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Dec 27, 2022 19:24
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A Fancy Hat posted:I didn't like this as much as Knives Out, but I think that's due to me personally enjoying the cast of Knives Out a lot more. I enjoyed the mystery, the characters, and Benoit seemed like a much more fun and fleshed out character to me this time around. No real complaints at all, it was a super fun movie. yea i loved this movie, made me laugh a lot. very much enjoyed Benoit getting more fleshed out. I still prefer the last one if only bc I preferred the setting & characters of the first one more. Jamie Lee Curtis  I love these movies though, please give me more of them. Just more absurd Benoit Blanc mysteries, Rian.
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Dec 27, 2022 19:46
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Marx Headroom posted:Neither do I but if they needed a line to explain it then even the scriptwriters thought something was off. They just papered over it instead of fine tuning. Maybe they were in too deep to rethink the location. It's a line from the same proud lineage as "The Moon's gravitational field obscured our warp signature. The Vulcans did not detect us." There's nothing weird about a movie taking place during a rich people party saying "the help are home for the weekend, go nuts!" It's not unusual for a location like that to have people working it, it's not unusual for an event like that to have them sent away for the duration, and it let Miles brag a little more about the place. Calico Heart posted:I feel like the cast in the end turning on Miles comes out of nowhere. The entire film tells us these people are loser coward parasites, and ten minutes before they turn in him they are still loser coward parasites who refuse to stand against him. It makes way more thematic sense in terms of everything we know about them and the world this movie is presenting - and then they all have a change of heart? Feels very weak to me. There was no change of heart. They stuck by Miles when it looked like he could still make them money (the murders could be covered up), they ran from him when it became clear he no longer could (the catastrophic failure of his energy source and destruction of a beloved work of art due to it could not be covered up). We've seen this time and time again with powerful people's downfalls, where they'll be surrounded by defenders up until the moment when they're suddenly alone and tossed to the wolves.
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Dec 27, 2022 21:16
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Does this film spoil the first one? I've seen the first one, but I thought it may be fun to watch the second with my girlfriend (who hasn't seen the first) so we both don't know what's happening.
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Dec 27, 2022 21:28
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Hiro Protagonist posted:Does this film spoil the first one? I've seen the first one, but I thought it may be fun to watch the second with my girlfriend (who hasn't seen the first) so we both don't know what's happening. They are entirely unrelated, the only common thread is Daniel Craig is a private investigator
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Dec 27, 2022 21:32
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Thundercracker posted:Why would you build a tunnel for cars that instantly grinds to a halt if any car has a malfunction? Except that we're repeatedly told that Klear being put into people's homes is a real danger that Andi/Helen is righteously trying to prevent. The Boring Company has built one tech demo in Las Vegas where cars drive slowly through a tunnel. It's not actually dangerous, just stupid. The submarine was never made or going to be made. It wasn't actually dangerous, just stupid. As you suggest, Musk hyped them to bolster his image as a techno-genius. That's a poor match to all the shrieking about the Hindenburg and how Klear needs to be stopped. Nor did Musk bet his fortune on The Boring Company or that submarine, because that doesn't fit with something being a gimmick to pump stock price on hype. Klear is a lousy analogy for real-world tech hype. Which is fine, Glass Onion is a comedy-thriller and does that well; it isn't trying to be anything more than the most surface-level satire in the interest of some jokes. But trying to draw these sorts of specific connections is silly.
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Dec 27, 2022 22:18
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I think it's a pretty decent stand-in for the ways that galaxy-brained tech weirdos are bad for society ("move fast and break
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Dec 27, 2022 22:23
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Yeah the target isn’t so much Musk all by his lonesome as the entire “disruptor” mindset which, as Miles explains it (despite some mangled words), essentially has no regard for ethical or moral boundaries. It’s just that Musk has become the most prominent example of it, especially over the last few months.
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Dec 27, 2022 22:31
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Yeah, he's meant to be an archetype that even Bezos or Bronson or even Jack fit into, but there's so much more Musk that's present because of how open Musk is about being a rich tech idiot and his recent foibles on Twitter. Klear is just a tech themed macguffin that mostly just exists as set dressing that needs less explanation. It could've been some kind of conductive metal or an app or w/e, but it ultimately serves as another tool of his own unmaking that he put into motion.
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Dec 27, 2022 22:32
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Sir Kodiak posted:The Boring Company has built one tech demo in Las Vegas where cars drive slowly through a tunnel. It's not actually dangerous, just stupid. The submarine was never made or going to be made. It wasn't actually dangerous, just stupid. As you suggest, Musk hyped them to bolster his image as a techno-genius. That's a poor match to all the shrieking about the Hindenburg and how Klear needs to be stopped.  Anyway FSD is probably a better analogue for “unsafe technology being hyped by lies and pushed on the public as revolutionary to pad his profits.” But none of this matters. It doesn’t need to represent an exact real world situation, there are plenty of instances of businesses ignoring safety concerns to push unsafe products to market that end up causing injury or death. It has verisimilitude.
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Dec 27, 2022 22:39
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Yeah, but like, Facebook works. It's damaging to society, but it doesn't have some technical flaw that makes it dangerous. It's dangerous when working as designed. YouTube is able to radicalize people because its recommendation system successfully fulfills the goal of addicting people to video content and it turns out hateful rhetoric is a potent drug. But that's not it failing to work as designed; that's it working too well. Klear is a seemingly bad product that we're meant to understand is unfit for its intended purpose. It isn't so good at what it does that it unintentionally wrecks things. It just explodes. A better satire of that sort of thing is, say, Alien, where Mother is willing to sacrifice the crew to capture an evil bug because it was the logical way to maximize profit if you don't have delusions of morality. Nobody intended her to do that; it was the unanticipated outcome of the system working as designed. That's moving fast and breaking things. Again, this only matters if you want to argue Glass Onion is a good satire, as some do. It doesn't impact the comedy-thriller aspect.
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Dec 27, 2022 22:40
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YOLOsubmarine posted:
Again, The Boring Company is a gimmick to keep Musk in the news. There is no danger of them being built across America and killing folks the way we're told to worry about Klear making people's homes go Hindenburg. Nor did Musk bet his fortune on building tunnels. So, yes, dangerous products exist. Overhyped products exist. Klear neither matches any of them well nor makes sense on its own terms. Which is fine, because the movie isn't about Klear. It's overthinking it to try to match it to real-world problems.
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Dec 27, 2022 22:52
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Sir Kodiak posted:It's overthinking it to try to match it to real-world problems. Yes, which is why it’s baffling that you’re so hung up on it. It can be suggestive of real world issues without matching any of them 1:1. It’s a product which Bron knows is unsafe but is pushing to release anyway because his future depends on it. That’s fairly relatable if you’ve been alive at some point since the Industrial Revolution.
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Dec 27, 2022 23:01
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Miles Bron is not a parody of Elon Musk specifically, but of dipshit tech billionaires generally. Can we maybe get something like that added to the thread title?
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Dec 27, 2022 23:10
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Yes, which is why it’s baffling that you’re so hung up on it. It can be suggestive of real world issues without matching any of them 1:1. It’s a product which Bron knows is unsafe but is pushing to release anyway because his future depends on it. That’s fairly relatable if you’ve been alive at some point since the Industrial Revolution. There are people suggesting that the details match real-world issues. That's who I'm responding to. I'm "hung up on it" because I'm allowing for the possibility that I'm wrong about the satire being entirely surface-level. Engaging with people who are suggesting it's more than that is how I'd find out that I am.
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Dec 27, 2022 23:12
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Sir Kodiak posted:There are people suggesting that the details match real-world issues. That's who I'm responding to. I'm "hung up on it" because I'm allowing for the possibility that I'm wrong about the satire being entirely surface-level. Engaging with people who are suggesting it's more than that is how I'd find out that I am. I don’t think anyone has suggested that Klear is like some specific real world technology, simply that the ultra rich disruptor types that are the reference point for Bron are not immune to making extremely stupid and/or dangerous products.
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Dec 27, 2022 23:20
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Movie good. The elite and their hangers-on deserve the guillotine. Next one will also be good I hope.
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Dec 27, 2022 23:33
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YOLOsubmarine posted:I don’t think anyone has suggested that Klear is like some specific real world technology, simply that the ultra rich disruptor types that are the reference point for Bron are not immune to making extremely stupid and/or dangerous products. Someone raised a question about why Miles is so die-hard to pipe Klear into people's homes, given that particularly application hardly seems necessary for the product's success. The question asked in response, "Why would you build a tunnel for cars that instantly grinds to a halt if any car has a malfunction?" has an answer, and it's not one that addresses anything about the original question. Obviously no one is suggesting a one-to-one analogy, but there are similarities being drawn to specific real world technologies and they're not particularly compelling.
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Dec 28, 2022 00:39
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Here's an answer worthy of a No-Prize: because somebody figures it will be easier to sell more Klear if there's a form of it that makes use of existing natural gas infrastructure rather than waiting for people to switch to electric heating.
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Dec 28, 2022 00:48
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Because "personally" solving the energy crisis by having his product inside everyone's homes would make him as famous as the Mona Lisa I figure
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Dec 28, 2022 00:48
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Probably the same question: Why did he have it piped all over the living quarters of his island instead of simply being the fuel for a generator system? And the answer is, it's a fictional technology with fictional strengths and weaknesses. Apparently this stuff needs to be piped really close to its point of use, somehow.
Ditocoaf fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Dec 28, 2022 |
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Dec 28, 2022 00:55
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Given that it’s a made up technology my made up explanation is that he doesn’t just want to sell fuel, he wants to sell people the power generation equipment to burn it allowing them to decouple from the grid entirely. Vertical integration and direct to consumer is all the rage. Nobody wants to give money to middlemen.
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Dec 28, 2022 01:12
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The point of asking the question is to learn whether the movie provides an answer. Whether there being an answer to that question expands the scope of the commentary. That you all have different answers suggests that it does not. It's fine that it doesn't, but then there's no reason to make up one. We can just accept that the real answer is that it's because Miles does stupid and dangerous things, full stop.
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Dec 28, 2022 01:13
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