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Is anyone here running GZDoom/WAD's on Steam Deck? Is there a dummy's guide on how to get things going?
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Dec 15, 2022 10:39
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Bumhead posted:Is anyone here running GZDoom/WAD's on Steam Deck? Yep. You need to install ZDL to make life easier but once you have that set up, it's easy peasy. Most of the setup needs to be done in desktop mode but then you can set a steam shortcut to ZDL and it'll launch GZDoom for you with selected mods/wads in game mode. Some stuff doesn't work great on deck, specifically audio. I think some of the mods use audio formats that the deck can't play. It's a bit of a crapshoot tbh but a lot of WADs run great. I played through all of ancient aliens on deck and loved it.
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Dec 15, 2022 11:43
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Quantum of Phallus posted:Yep. You need to install ZDL to make life easier but once you have that set up, it's easy peasy. Most of the setup needs to be done in desktop mode but then you can set a steam shortcut to ZDL and it'll launch GZDoom for you with selected mods/wads in game mode. Some stuff doesn't work great on deck, specifically audio. I think some of the mods use audio formats that the deck can't play. It's a bit of a crapshoot tbh but a lot of WADs run great. I played through all of ancient aliens on deck and loved it. Sweet, thank you. That sounds reasonably straight forward. I'm an extreme Linux noob and haven't done anything with my Deck much more complex than running Steam games on it yet (installing the Deck Cleaner script is as much as I've used Desktop mode for), but that sounds easy enough.
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Dec 15, 2022 11:55
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Quantum of Phallus posted:Yep. You need to install ZDL to make life easier but once you have that set up, it's easy peasy. Most of the setup needs to be done in desktop mode but then you can set a steam shortcut to ZDL and it'll launch GZDoom for you with selected mods/wads in game mode. Some stuff doesn't work great on deck, specifically audio. I think some of the mods use audio formats that the deck can't play. It's a bit of a crapshoot tbh but a lot of WADs run great. I played through all of ancient aliens on deck and loved it.  
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Dec 15, 2022 12:20
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Cat Machine posted:I can confirm my wad works fine on Steam Deck Hell yes, played through both versions on Deck and loved it!
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Dec 15, 2022 12:47
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A.o.D. posted:Nirvana can easily soft lock, and has broken sectors and textures. It's really bad from a technical stand point, and man, is it ugly.   An Actual Princess posted:waste tunnels is easily the worst. kills all my momentum every time i play through doom 2 Good soup! posted:Another vote for Waste Tunnels as the worst, it sucks out all the momentum from a solid beginning Prophet of Nixon posted:Same. I like a lot of the other maps that everyone dislikes, but will frequently stop playing at Waste Tunnels.  If I ever make it past The Waste Tunnels when messing around, then The Pit invariably kills whatever drive I have left.
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Dec 15, 2022 13:08
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Exactly! There's so much wrong with that room. What is tag 999 even doing?? Here's my version of that exact location:  which... is still a mess, but it's a functional mess. It only occurs to me now that I could have done the exit from the room a lot more elegantly.
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Dec 15, 2022 13:16
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A.o.D. posted:Exactly! There's so much wrong with that room. What is tag 999 even doing?? Speaking of messy, just look how far away the area of MAP21 is from the 0,0 co-ordinates:  I know it ultimately means nothing in regards to how the map functions and plays (potential "blockmap bug" stuff aside) but isn't 0,0 usually the starting/focus point for any map editor when opening a new map? A.o.D. posted:Here's my version of that exact location:  I'll have to try your remake out now. The original Nirvana was always one of those "oh, this place" maps, with brevity being its saving grace.
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Dec 15, 2022 13:57
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The tools they had to work with were extremely primitive in a lot of ways so I wouldn't necessarily even blame Sandy for that sector issue. DoomEd didn't even have the concept of sectors in its map format and map designers had to use a flood fill tool to fill in the shapes with the information that would later be used to generate the sector information. The issue is that a couple of the lines of that sector had a different ceiling height than the rest of the lines, causing it to generate two different (unclosed) sectors on export, which is something that isn't even really possible with modern tools. I doubt Sandy would have had an easy way to even tell if anything was wrong unless it looked wrong in game. You can see the original "source code" of the map here: https://github.com/chocolatiers/RomeroDoomDump/blob/master/doom-maps/doom2map/map21.dwd ZogrimAteMyHamster posted:I know it ultimately means nothing in regards to how the map functions and plays (potential "blockmap bug" stuff aside) but isn't 0,0 usually the starting/focus point for any map editor when opening a new map?  
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Dec 15, 2022 14:33
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If any of you ever seriously complete this, I'll give you a free nutshot on me if we ever meet, because I'll have earned it. This is one of the most assholeish things I've ever done in my entire life. For reference, the map start is JUST off the bottom of the screen.
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Dec 16, 2022 03:09
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Volte posted:The tools they had to work with were extremely primitive in a lot of ways so I wouldn't necessarily even blame Sandy for that sector issue. DoomEd didn't even have the concept of sectors in its map format and map designers had to use a flood fill tool to fill in the shapes with the information that would later be used to generate the sector information. The issue is that a couple of the lines of that sector had a different ceiling height than the rest of the lines, causing it to generate two different (unclosed) sectors on export, which is something that isn't even really possible with modern tools. I doubt Sandy would have had an easy way to even tell if anything was wrong unless it looked wrong in game. You can see the original "source code" of the map here: Fair point, and stuff like that makes a lot more sense when you consider how the WAD file format (or at least the stuff related to maps) changed during Doom's development. Sandy's approach to building that stairway was still really weird and messy though  (In his defence however I will state that getting regular stairways to build properly in the vanilla format is not exactly intuitive, even in modern editors.) Volte posted:Nah there are lots of maps in the IWAD like that, even Romero's MAP17. Map development in the id Software offices c.1994 was certainly a mysterious thing:  1.666  1.9 A.o.D. posted:If any of you ever seriously complete this, I'll give you a free nutshot on me if we ever meet, because I'll have earned it.  Maybe I'm just being a thicko but I'm not seeing anything horrible here. Unless you're trying to get too many lines to show at once in vanilla/choco
ZogrimAteMyHamster fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 16, 2022 18:13
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ZogrimAteMyHamster posted:I've just remembered that in later revisions of the IWAD, in addition to MAP02: Underhalls having those silver bars removed the entire thing was also shifted closer to 0,0 compared to the original 1.666 version. Now I'm wondering if stuff like moving everything in such a way was some weird counter-piracy nonsense (by preventing players with pirated versions of the IWAD from connecting to MP games, etc.) or whatever, even though the removal of the bars alone in MAP02's case would have been enough to cause a problem.
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Dec 16, 2022 18:36
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ZogrimAteMyHamster posted:]Now I'm wondering if stuff like moving everything in such a way was some weird counter-piracy nonsense (by preventing players with pirated versions of the IWAD from connecting to MP games, etc.) or whatever, even though the removal of the bars alone in MAP02's case would have been enough to cause a problem. I'm not sure which IWAD would've been most commonly pirated, but released versions of DOOM II had no copy protection and update patches were hosted in the idgames FTP repo as early as 1995 for anyone who had an Internet connection.
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Dec 16, 2022 18:46
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ExcessBLarg! posted:That's definitely a reach for an explanation. If it was so, they would've done it with more maps than just MAP02.  Volte posted:My wild guess is that it was to fudge the BSP node builder to fix a slime trail or other weird issue. Maybe Romero would know.
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Dec 16, 2022 19:03
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ZogrimAteMyHamster posted:Fair point, and stuff like that makes a lot more sense when you consider how the WAD file format (or at least the stuff related to maps) changed during Doom's development. Sandy's approach to building that stairway was still really weird and messy though Those are all glides. In lieu of playing the map normally you can glide through a bunch of bars that would otherwise raise. However, some of the gaps between bars is 31 units instead of 32. Also, I used high entropy flat and side textures to make aligning the player more difficult, and to make it more difficult to discern which gaps are which. You have to make a total of 15 glides in order to exit, and those glides are in each of the cardinal directions. It might be faster to just play the map.
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Dec 17, 2022 00:42
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Volte posted:My wild guess is that it was to fudge the BSP node builder to fix a slime trail or other weird issue. Maybe Romero would know. I vaguely remember Romero addressing this when asked on twitter ages ago but I couldn't even run doom with the amount of usable memory my brain is working with so and not to distract from map chat but I gotta go on record saying Jimmy's The Godhood Suite.mid is a masterpiece, all 43 minutes of it. I've never even finished the last episode of Eviternity but I listen to that track when I'm in the zone at work to ascend beyond the physical realm. Within Reach is his best track though, imo. I need recommendations for more stellar MIDI composers. I've got all of Stuart Rynn and Sarah Mancuso's stuff already but need more punchy doom music of a similar caliber. Being on bandcamp is a bonus.
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Dec 17, 2022 01:45
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A.o.D. posted:Those are all glides. In lieu of playing the map normally you can glide through a bunch of bars that would otherwise raise. However, some of the gaps between bars is 31 units instead of 32. Also, I used high entropy flat and side textures to make aligning the player more difficult, and to make it more difficult to discern which gaps are which. You have to make a total of 15 glides in order to exit, and those glides are in each of the cardinal directions. It might be faster to just play the map. Cardinal directions?!?! You fiend! Doom can't do accurate NESW movement!
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Dec 17, 2022 12:53
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ZogrimAteMyHamster posted:Cardinal directions?!?! You fiend! Doom can't do accurate NESW movement! That's what makes glides so hard. Bar Glides can only be done in the cardinal directions since Doom uses square bounding boxes for all collisions. Also, due to quirks in the movement system, all glides are not the same. Depending on whether you're going north, east, south, or west, glides are arbitrarily easier or harder to perform. of course, there are other types of glides, and those tend to prefer diagonals because they rely on high player speed while bar glides want minimum player speed.
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Dec 17, 2022 13:00
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spending the morning beating the fire boss on Elementalism, don't want to give too much away but it's a fun ol time. Some fire patterns require LOTS of moving, other deceptively little. But I've had more than one "kill the boss then die simultaneously watching its death animation" moments actually i hate this. it's so fast ok done. what a treat so far, lots of eye candy and somewhat familiar but slightly differently tuned alternate beasts. looking forward to the next 2 elements Brolander fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Dec 17, 2022 |
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Dec 17, 2022 17:23
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No idea how this is done but very cool indeed https://twitter.com/mengo329/status/1605330195304615938?s=46&t=OdqLqoPPVAcqpV1e1fRhfQ
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Dec 22, 2022 14:41
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Cat Machine posted:No idea how this is done but very cool indeed It's really easy to set something like that working on a basic level (Linetype 237 and Thingtype 9073 in Hexen format/UDMF maps), but it's immensely time-consuming if you want to get anything good or worthwhile out of it; a buddy of mine started a project with fixed cameras as far back as in late 2008 but lost motivation before long because of the tedium involved. Getting the camera positions/angles and line placements in just the right place to not have the constant camera-switching gently caress around with spacial awareness and come across as horribly jarring is headache-inducing. Edit: And the blind spots. Good lord the blind spots. Here, have a lovely demo to fiddle with. ZogrimAteMyHamster fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Dec 22, 2022 |
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Dec 22, 2022 16:57
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Awesome, thanks for sharing! I have only built stuff for Boom compatibility and below, so all this stuff is magic to me. I feel like 2023 would be a good time to start looking at what UDMF/GZD can offer for a new project.
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Dec 22, 2022 21:17
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UDMF can appear incredibly overwhelming at first because any and every thing/line/sector has a seemingly ungodly number of flags and options to deal with, but it's really not that complex. Once you get a grasp on the flexibility of it all everything becomes so easy to do, and can be done exactly as you intend. No more Voodoo Doll bullshit or will-it/won't-it conveyor belt crap. One of my favourite QoL improvements? Independent upper, middle & lower texture offsets! 
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Dec 23, 2022 03:37
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ZogrimAteMyHamster posted:UDMF can appear incredibly overwhelming at first because any and every thing/line/sector has a seemingly ungodly number of flags and options to deal with, but it's really not that complex. Once you get a grasp on the flexibility of it all everything becomes so easy to do, and can be done exactly as you intend. No more Voodoo Doll bullshit or will-it/won't-it conveyor belt crap. The absolute texture control is the UDMF format's greatest feature.
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Dec 23, 2022 03:59
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ZogrimAteMyHamster posted:One of my favourite QoL improvements? Independent upper, middle & lower texture offsets!
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Dec 23, 2022 15:59
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Cat Machine posted:Alright, I’m sold You can also flip and invert textures, scale textures, apply brightness levels independent of the sector's light level, apply colors, and swap flats and side textures without having to redefine them in the wad. If there was a Boom compatible source port that had UDMF texture control I wouldn't need anything else.
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Dec 23, 2022 17:26
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https://www.doomworld.com/cacowards/2022/ It's that time of the year again.
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Dec 25, 2022 05:25
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Einwand posted:https://www.doomworld.com/cacowards/2022/ It's that time of the year again. It was that time of the year a pair of weeks ago. Every year is on Dec 10 :P. In any case, Merry Christmas!
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Dec 25, 2022 13:00
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Love me some Cacowards.
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Dec 27, 2022 05:18
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There's this podcast/interview series on Youtube called "An evening with Nirvana" where some dude named Nirvana interviews various figures in the Doom community. So far he's gotten guys like Skillsaw, Cyriak, Sandy Petersen, and Dario Casali. The one thing that surprised me the most was that when Insane Gazeebo made the original Sunder maps back in 2009, he played on ZDoom with default settings, so he played and designed the maps with freelook and crowd surfing enabled. The serious itself mostly covers design philosophy, influences, and for those that aren't credited developers, how they got into Doom. I wouldn't call it the most engrossing subject matter, but it's good background noise. https://www.youtube.com/@NirvanaYoutube
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Dec 28, 2022 10:48
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A.o.D. posted:There's this podcast/interview series on Youtube called "An evening with Nirvana" where some dude named Nirvana interviews various figures in the Doom community. So far he's gotten guys like Skillsaw, Cyriak, Sandy Petersen, and Dario Casali. The one thing that surprised me the most was that when Insane Gazeebo made the original Sunder maps back in 2009, he played on ZDoom with default settings, so he played and designed the maps with freelook and crowd surfing enabled. The serious itself mostly covers design philosophy, influences, and for those that aren't credited developers, how they got into Doom. I wouldn't call it the most engrossing subject matter, but it's good background noise. It's very dependant on the interviewee because Nirvana sounds half asleep most of the time
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Dec 28, 2022 21:53
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on to the giant purple head! I think this was my least favorite Boss, getting used to the homing green stream + the expanding circles was tricky enough without the stupid fog  
Brolander fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Dec 28, 2022 |
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Dec 28, 2022 22:14
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A.o.D. posted:There's this podcast/interview series on Youtube called "An evening with Nirvana" where some dude named Nirvana interviews various figures in the Doom community. So far he's gotten guys like Skillsaw, Cyriak, Sandy Petersen, and Dario Casali. The one thing that surprised me the most was that when Insane Gazeebo made the original Sunder maps back in 2009, he played on ZDoom with default settings, so he played and designed the maps with freelook and crowd surfing enabled. The serious itself mostly covers design philosophy, influences, and for those that aren't credited developers, how they got into Doom. I wouldn't call it the most engrossing subject matter, but it's good background noise. ...crowd surfing?
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Dec 29, 2022 00:07
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Turin Turambar posted:...crowd surfing? Maybe being able to step on top of enemies instead of getting blocked by them? Like if you're standing on a platform with a gaggle of imps below you, you can step off of the platform, on/over the imps, and onto the ground past them?
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Dec 29, 2022 00:13
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Turin Turambar posted:...crowd surfing? I think enemies were treated as having infinite height in the original game.
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Dec 29, 2022 00:20
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Yeah, being able to walk over enemies and walk under cacos is source port wizardry.
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Dec 29, 2022 00:29
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Turin Turambar posted:...crowd surfing? It's been more or less explained already, but here's the complete version: In regular doom, everything with collision has infinite height. Players and monsters cannot travel over or under each other. In source ports like GZDoom, you can select whether monsters and explosions have infinite height, or have a bounding box you can travel over or under. This number isn't chosen at random in those source ports, it uses the height that the various entities use to determine what size rooms they can move in (players, zombies, imps, revenants, and archviles have a height of 56 units, for instance). If you're up against a truly dense carpet of monsters and are on a higher floor than them, you can walk on their heads in certain source ports unless you enable the classic doom collision behavior. In Training posted:Yeah, being able to walk over enemies and walk under cacos is source port wizardry. It's not really source port wizardry. DOS Doom COULD have 3D collision, after all, it uses 3D collision for projectiles. It simply doesn't because it was a way to save precious CPU cycles on the computers of the day.
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Dec 29, 2022 00:48
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The Z-axis behaviour in DOS Doom was something of an oversight (not really many IWAD maps in 1993 that utilised notably tall sectors so it's easy to see why) and as such it's weird and wacky in general. Sound never fades over distance vertically, for one. You can be 10,000 units above something, but the engine doesn't give a poo poo about this at all. Being able to activate switches which are far above/below the player's position is another quirk (as can be seen in Entryway; the switch opening the Green Armour secret can be flipped even after it's sunken into the ground). And then there's fun with projectiles, scaling a climb or descent of any height on Z in the time it takes them to travel whatever the target's distance is on the X/Y plane. poo poo's hosed.
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Dec 29, 2022 06:58
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ZogrimAteMyHamster posted:The Z-axis behaviour in DOS Doom was something of an oversight (not really many IWAD maps in 1993 that utilised notably tall sectors so it's easy to see why) and as such it's weird and wacky in general. Sound never fades over distance vertically, for one. You can be 10,000 units above something, but the engine doesn't give a poo poo about this at all. Being able to activate switches which are far above/below the player's position is another quirk (as can be seen in Entryway; the switch opening the Green Armour secret can be flipped even after it's sunken into the ground). All of that comes down to "what is the least cpu intensive way to accomplish this?" In the switch instance, the engine doesn't check to see if there's collision or vertical range on attempting to activate a switch. Instead, when you press the use key, it casts a short ray in front of the player that checks to see if it crosses with a special linedef and then stops. It doesn't check for height, it doesn't even care if it's a usable linedef. That's how you can block a switch (or even make a switch completely unusable by accident) by placing something as benign as a wall scroll special right in front of a switch linedef. It all boils down to doing whatever it took to make a 3D engine be playable on a 386 even though the target computer was a 486.
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Dec 29, 2022 13:26
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Finished Eviternity on UV. The Annihilator is such a stupidly un-fun enemy, gently caress.
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Dec 29, 2022 20:09
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