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Everyone posted:Compare it to other space sci-fi TV stuff. Star Wars? The galaxy at large is fighting some big-rear end civil war which leads to the cartoonishly evil Empire and then yet another galaxy-wide civil war. Followed by 30ish years of "peace" and then the destruction of the New Republic and another war because the New Republic apparently decided "Eh, gently caress it. Let the fascists have power again. What's the worst that could happen?" It's even part of the whole DNA of the franchise. The universe is scary and difficult, and it's easy to fall back to cynicism and tribalism and just looking out for yourself. But by working together and embracing cooperation and friendship the Federation is stunningly successful.
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Dec 31, 2022 04:44
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Mellonoious wormis Is thy taxonomic nomenclature Translucent, fuscia, morphogenic by nature Your rubbery, mass energy, and shape changing defenses Contribute to your fighting skills and help you to defend us. I find myself intrigued by your lipsyncing oscillations A singular development of sing song imitations And though you are not sapient Murph And cannot comprehend I nonetheless consider you a true and special friend
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Dec 31, 2022 04:53
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Speaking of sapient life - does Star Trek have any sort of Precursers like the Stargate series does? In that series lots of sentient beings look like humans is because humans look exactly like the 65+ million year old Anchients/Ancestors/Alterans who nudged life to look like them in multiple galaxies. I know in Discovery they point to some sort of panspermia with the Mycelial Network putting up mushrooms across the galaxy, but is there an in-universe explination of why so many aliens look so similar to humans?
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Dec 31, 2022 04:56
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Twincityhacker posted:Speaking of sapient life - does Star Trek have any sort of Precursers like the Stargate series does? In that series lots of sentient beings look like humans is because humans look exactly like the 65+ million year old Anchients/Ancestors/Alterans who nudged life to look like them in multiple galaxies. Season 6, Episode 20 of TNG: "The Chase"
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Dec 31, 2022 04:56
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A.o.D. posted:Season 6, Episode 20 of TNG: "The Chase" ...can I get a summery? I've only seen TOS and Discovery.
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Dec 31, 2022 04:59
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Twincityhacker posted:...can I get a summery? I've only seen TOS and Discovery. There's a precursor race. Not a whole lot important happens in the episode, but there's a nice character moment at the end involving the Romulans. If you can handle TOS and Discovery, you can definitely enjoy TNG. The first season is dire, but there are a few genuinely great eps in Season 2, and Season 3+4 have a bunch of all time great eps. There's a long tail towards the end, but there are still very good to great episodes sprinkled all the way throughout.
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Dec 31, 2022 05:05
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Twincityhacker posted:...can I get a summery? I've only seen TOS and Discovery. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Chase_(episode) The precursor race evolved and found no other sapient life in the galaxy. They were all alone and didn't like it so they seeded genetic material. Later, some species find that there is part of a message hidden in their DNA. No species has the whole thing though, so they are racing around trying to collect all the pieces of the message. Maybe it's schematics for a weapon for some reason??? Nope it's just a letter from your long extinct sad sack common ancestors.
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Dec 31, 2022 05:05
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Twincityhacker posted:...can I get a summery? I've only seen TOS and Discovery. Captain Picard hears from this scientist he knows who's been doing archeological research (and I think also on comparative genetics, i think) and thinks he's on the verge of discovering something wonderful. I believe he's killed, although I'm not sure, and Picard and the Enterprise take over his work. As they do it, these alien species (Klingons, Romulans, etc), start getting suspicious and decide to join in on the hunt. After gathering all the material, they get to this planet, where the genetic material creates a hologram, played by Salome Jens. She tells them that her race was called the Precursors, and that they seeded various planets in the galaxy with their DNA so that some part of them would survive after they were gone. The Klingon is upset it's not a weapon, but Picard talks to the Romulan, who's overwhelmed that humans and Romulans (and other sentients) share a common genetic heritage and they agree that maybe someday, their people can be friends.
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Dec 31, 2022 05:13
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Epicurius posted:Captain Picard hears from this scientist he knows who's been doing archeological research (and I think also on comparative genetics, i think) and thinks he's on the verge of discovering something wonderful. I believe he's killed, although I'm not sure, and Picard and the Enterprise take over his work. As they do it, these alien species (Klingons, Romulans, etc), start getting suspicious and decide to join in on the hunt. After gathering all the material, they get to this planet, where the genetic material creates a hologram, played by Salome Jens. She tells them that her race was called the Precursors, and that they seeded various planets in the galaxy with their DNA so that some part of them would survive after they were gone. The Klingon is upset it's not a weapon, but Picard talks to the Romulan, who's overwhelmed that humans and Romulans (and other sentients) share a common genetic heritage and they agree that maybe someday, their people can be friends. I always forget that she was portrayed by same actress as Changeleader! But yeah, it's sort of an explanation for why all the aliens look like humans with stuff glued on.
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Dec 31, 2022 05:33
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Mellonoious wormis Too lazy to post the clapping gif, so here you go
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Dec 31, 2022 05:37
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Data's poems were legit good. It's like the writers forgot they were supposed to be insipid.
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Dec 31, 2022 05:51
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bltzn posted:It is up on Crave, I watched it earlier today. I checked again and it still only goes up to 18. Ill check again tomorrow.
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Dec 31, 2022 05:54
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mllaneza posted:No, but they would have had to extensively rewrite a whole bunch of scripts to turn it into Star Trek. I'm going with the theory that it was Star Trek all along, and only looked like Star Wars so kids who only knew Star Wars could start in a familiar environment and then learn about the Federation along with the characters. Why do you assume they would have had to "extensively rewrite a bunch of scripts"? It feels likely that they were in the process of finishing up the pilot of what was going to be a generic "kids find an advanced space ship with a hologram teacher" show when someone From The Network came to them with the opportunity to transform it into a Star Trek show. Re-render a few scenes with some different character models (specifically Janeway, ship exterior shots, and probably edits to Zero), re-record some dialog, edit your script for Episode 2 to reset some plot points and that's about it; the needed changes to add in the "Star Trek bits" to the pilot are overall pretty few and far between. Adding/removing IP licenses in the middle of production (sometimes very late in the process) isn't uncommon in a number of entertainment industries, and if you have the opportunity it's often very much worth it - even poo poo IPs usually guarantee a certain pre-determined viewer/user base and sales, something like Star Trek is a goldmine and you'd be a fool not to move heaven and earth to make it fit. Otherwise, if the license was set from the start, there's zero reason why the main cast wouldn't include some kind of recognizable/iconic Star Trek species; there is no way in hell CBS marketing wouldn't have made sure there was a Ferengi or a Vulcan or a Borg or some kind of character that visibly screams "Hey, this is Star Trek!" when plastered on a cereal box or whatever. Swap out what was likely originally a generic "hologram character" for Janeway, though? Instant Star Trek, and marketable to boot. I'm also willing to bet that the Diviner wasn't supposed to be a recurring character, but they had an opportunity to cast John Noble in the role (likely due to landing the license), and hit the reset button in Ep2 to keep the character around/active.
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Dec 31, 2022 06:07
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My Second Re-Reg posted:Otherwise, if the license was set from the start, there's zero reason why the main cast wouldn't include some kind of recognizable/iconic Star Trek species; there is no way in hell CBS marketing wouldn't have made sure there was a Ferengi or a Vulcan or a Borg or some kind of character that visibly screams "Hey, this is Star Trek!" when plastered on a cereal box or whatever. Swap out what was likely originally a generic "hologram character" for Janeway, though? Instant Star Trek, and marketable to boot. If they could've re-modeled and animated and recast the hologram, they could've changed the species of one of the characters. I'm pretty sure they were always making a Star Trek show and knew that from the start.
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Dec 31, 2022 06:33
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Prodigy was always a Trek show from its very inception.
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Dec 31, 2022 06:39
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LividLiquid posted:I don't follow you here. They would have included a Star Trek race had it been Star Trek, but the actual Star Trek person doesn't count? Neither actor nor character? Consider screen time and value for money; the hologram doesn't have as much screen time or speaking lines as the rest of the cast in the pilot, making it both the easiest switch and for something that's not only recognizable, but an already established character. Doing this would mean they no longer "have" to include a recognizable alien in the main cast from a marketing standpoint.
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Dec 31, 2022 07:28
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quote =! edit
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Dec 31, 2022 07:29
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HD DAD posted:Prodigy was always a Trek show from its very inception. Word is they turned in 40 scripts, two whole season's worth.
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Dec 31, 2022 07:55
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My Second Re-Reg posted:Why do you assume they would have had to "extensively rewrite a bunch of scripts"? Without any background knowledge, my bet is that they knew it was Star Trek from the start but went without the big iconic identities because wouldn't add much. Scenario 1: The Show Does Well With Kids, not well with adults They haven't seen previous Trek anyway for the most part, so they don't benefit from legacy races being front and center. Scenario 2: Show doesn't do well with kids, not well with adults Quietly gets cancelled, is memory holed as a weird side project that didn't get it. Scenario 3: Show does well with Kids, and with adults Yay, people liked the show and it didn't need fan service right from the start. Scenario 4: Kids don't like the show, adults do Can try again with the easy references.
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Dec 31, 2022 11:34
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The Hagemans literally pitched a Trek show to Nickelodeon. Full stop.
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Dec 31, 2022 14:18
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They're not as recognisable but Jankom, Zero and Rok are all pre-established races and identified as them within the pilot. The Brikar were quite popular in EU content. Also the process of finalising the Protostar design was two years long, they didn't throw that together in the last minute. They've posted quite a bit of the development material. Unless you think they faked out the dates. 
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Dec 31, 2022 |
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Dec 31, 2022 14:53
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Unironically love the proto-Protostar is apparently commanded by an army of Chris Pines.
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Dec 31, 2022 16:31
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HD DAD posted:Unironically love the proto-Protostar is apparently commanded by an army of Chris Pines. I've had that dream.
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Dec 31, 2022 16:42
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Everyone posted:Compare it to other space sci-fi TV stuff. Star Wars? The galaxy at large is fighting some big-rear end civil war which leads to the cartoonishly evil Empire and then yet another galaxy-wide civil war. Followed by 30ish years of "peace" and then the destruction of the New Republic and another war because the New Republic apparently decided "Eh, gently caress it. Let the fascists have power again. What's the worst that could happen?" Also Star Trek is one of the few (if only) ones that you aspire to want to belong in. Everyone is more advanced than we are now, society has advanced, more intelligent, more inclusive and such. Something you can turn yourself into today.
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Dec 31, 2022 20:06
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My Second Re-Reg posted:Why do you assume they would have had to "extensively rewrite a bunch of scripts"? You know they did make two other Star Trek shows before Prodigy that also felt nothing like Star Trek tonally or aesthetically and easily could have been reskinned properties. One of them was made by and starring Jean Luc Picard. I don't think "doesn't feature recognizable Star Trek imagery in the marketing" is a strong case for that conspiracy theory in the modern era. Drink-Mix Man fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Dec 31, 2022 |
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Dec 31, 2022 22:13
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Drink-Mix Man posted:You know they did make two other Star Trek shows before Prodigy that also felt nothing like Star Trek tonally or aesthetically and easily could have been reskinned properties. One of them was made by and starring Jean Luc Picard. I don't think "doesn't feature recognizable Star Trek imagery in the marketing" is a strong case for that conspiracy theory in the modern era. Oh my god, are we already back on our QAnon, But For Television bullshit already? It's only been three days since the season ended 
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Jan 1, 2023 00:10
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Picard is a compilation of good concepts implemented badly. There are several reason why it is such a mess, but it was Star Trek from the beginning. With Disco, I have a very strong feeling that it was originally either A) Kelvin universe TOS or B) meant to happen some 50 years after TNG, but both ideas got ultimately nixed.
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Jan 1, 2023 00:30
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They should give Ethan Peck his Discovery beard back
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Jan 1, 2023 01:03
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I have a feeling that it was always ment to be set near the TOS era so they could pull from the best known Star Trek ( The Orginal Series ) for charecters and vibes. Discovery may have been, very breifly, Rebootverse, but with how poorly Star Trek: Beyond did in the theaters it was switched to the Prime universe. Though with the carosel of production teams on Discovery, I'm not sure how much beyond season one was planned from the begining. The only thing I know for sure that was plans is that Dr. Culber was always going to come back. For two reasons The first is that his plotline of coming back is only thing that happenes in season one that was foreshadowing something in season two. ( You can see jahSepp!May infect Tilly as they go into the Prime!Universe from the Mirror!Universe. ) The second is that the production team and the actor who plays Dr. Culber said he was coming back after he was killed, because the queer audience was *furious* that it looked like yet another "bury your gays" storyline and were threatening to drop the show. Especially since Culber/Stamets was the first explicity queer charecters - Jazdia Dax was first but there is enough wiggle room in Trill identities that it can be fobbed off as "werid alien stuff."
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Jan 1, 2023 01:07
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Fuller or someone has come out in interviews saying Discovery was supposed to have been a straight TOS prime universe prequel, with characters in the turtlenecks from The Cage and a retro 60's spy movie inspired aesthetic for the sets. The concept was that the Discovery was a spy ship and the saucer could detach so that its big flat body would look like a D7 so they could cross the neutral zone. And there were supposed to be a bunch of weird black ops experiments happening on board.
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Jan 1, 2023 02:28
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HD DAD posted:Unironically love the proto-Protostar is apparently commanded by an army of Chris Pines. A forest of Pines even. Warp, Forest, Warp!
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Jan 1, 2023 02:31
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Fuller or someone has come out in interviews saying Discovery was supposed to have been a straight TOS prime universe prequel, with characters in the turtlenecks from The Cage and a retro 60's spy movie inspired aesthetic for the sets. The concept was that the Discovery was a spy ship and the saucer could detach so that its big flat body would look like a D7 so they could cross the neutral zone. And there were supposed to be a bunch of weird black ops experiments happening on board. Man, that dude sucks.
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Jan 1, 2023 02:40
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Fuller or someone has come out in interviews saying Discovery was supposed to have been a straight TOS prime universe prequel, with characters in the turtlenecks from The Cage and a retro 60's spy movie inspired aesthetic for the sets. The concept was that the Discovery was a spy ship and the saucer could detach so that its big flat body would look like a D7 so they could cross the neutral zone. And there were supposed to be a bunch of weird black ops experiments happening on board. Yeah that's the thing with all the production conspiracy theories, the background details aren't secret, it's not hard to look up how things went. At an even earlier point his opening pitch was "an anthology where every season takes place in the times of the previous shows, starting with a prequel" Things like differences in tone, structure or TOS inconsistencies aren't tells that it was a secret Kelvin series or mistakes, they can all be tracked back to Fuller or others openly saying they didn't want to repeat the same tired formula of the old shows that lead to the series decline, or wanting to do new takes on old things
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Jan 1, 2023 02:52
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Seemlar posted:Things like differences in tone, structure or TOS inconsistencies aren't tells that it was a secret Kelvin series or mistakes, they can all be tracked back to Fuller or others openly saying they didn't want to repeat the same tired formula of the old shows that lead to the series decline, or wanting to do new takes on old things Fuller's series would have been much less inconsistent with TOS. It would've used Cage style uniforms and the original design for Discovery was much more TOS-compatible. The war with the Klingons would've been the border skirmishes mentioned in TOS. It became very different in look and with lots of inconsistencies when the producers changed and Fuller was fired and replaced halfway through preproduction, as the new guys preferred a more 'modern' look and were less concerned with canonicity, and probably wouldn't have made a TOS prequel if they'd had a choice, but it was too late in preproduction to change the setting. Fuller was much more of a TOS weeb though.
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Jan 1, 2023 03:02
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Discovery was never going to look exactly like a tv pilot from 1964, hth.
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Jan 1, 2023 03:06
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And instead he ended up making Fuller House
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Jan 1, 2023 03:11
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MikeJF posted:Fuller's series would have been much less inconsistent with TOS. It would've used Cage style uniforms and the original design for Discovery was much more TOS-compatible. The war with the Klingons would've been the border skirmishes mentioned in TOS. It became very different in look and with lots of inconsistencies when the producers changed and Fuller was fired and replaced halfway through preproduction, as the new guys preferred a more 'modern' look and were less concerned with canonicity, and probably wouldn't have made a TOS prequel if they'd had a choice, but it was too late in preproduction to change the setting. Fuller was much more of a TOS weeb though. Except it's completely on record that the (season 1) Discovery Klingons are all Fuller - he was open that he wanted to completely redesign them and thought it was fine to do so since there was no single consistent portrayal of Klingons. Their visual design was explicitly what he requested and was kept when he left.
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Jan 1, 2023 03:13
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Kesper North posted:A forest of Pines even. Warp, Forest, Warp! De Forest of Pines?
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Jan 1, 2023 03:44
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Drink-Mix Man posted:The concept was that the Discovery was a spy ship and the saucer could detach so that its big flat body would look like a D7 so they could cross the neutral zone. "This will fool them unless they look at it." 
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Jan 1, 2023 04:05
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Seemlar posted:Except it's completely on record that the (season 1) Discovery Klingons are all Fuller - he was open that he wanted to completely redesign them and thought it was fine to do so since there was no single consistent portrayal of Klingons. Their visual design was explicitly what he requested and was kept when he left. Fuller! = shakes fist = Of all the things in Discovery I don't like, a lot of it has to do with Klingons. Their look, how the war started, ect.
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Jan 1, 2023 04:43
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