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SeXReX posted:https://twitter.com/dtraitor1/status/1603900971633020930?t=EqbYtfA3SGfxOzZsc7lmBw&s=19 Quickly becoming ArfPilled
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Dec 24, 2022 23:19
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https://twitter.com/Dr4gonBlitz/status/1608344084631912448 I love that people are still finding weird poo poo in old games
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Dec 29, 2022 17:36
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"huge timesaver" is that just going to be allowed? i thought they typically didn't let you abuse outright cheats like that
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Dec 29, 2022 18:33
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iPodschun posted:https://twitter.com/Dr4gonBlitz/status/1608344084631912448 that's pretty cool, is there anything else that can be done with controller 2 inputs in SotN?
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Dec 29, 2022 18:37
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Zamujasa posted:"huge timesaver" is that just going to be allowed? i thought they typically didn't let you abuse outright cheats like that It may not be allowed, it depends on what the speed runners agree to. Or it may as its something easily doable to everyone. Take Silent Hill 3 atm. All SH3 runs are recorded by the ingame timer. This can differ from the real time due to the set up you have, differing consoles load things quicker. But the ingame timer starts and stops when it loads stuff. So the ingame timer is the 'true' time of the run. It was only found out recently that if you spam the map key, it causes it to halt the ingame timer by 1 frame. 1 frame being 1/30th of a second, meaning you can spam it the whole game and the ingame timer will show a fraction what it should be. So they are now debating in the community what to do, allow it, or use some software check/disable solution.
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Dec 29, 2022 18:59
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Zamujasa posted:"huge timesaver" is that just going to be allowed? i thought they typically didn't let you abuse outright cheats like that it always depends on the runners and the categories, but I think 'accidentally included dev inputs' is well in the grey area. I could see it going either way, but I'd personally lean towards the argument of it being a cheat code
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Dec 29, 2022 19:00
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Zamujasa posted:"huge timesaver" is that just going to be allowed? i thought they typically didn't let you abuse outright cheats like that There's a blurry line between cheat and glitch that is ultimately decided by the community. I'd imagine that since it's only a 20s time save this one will be fine. poo poo left in by developers that wasn't intended to be accessible is a pretty common genre of "glitch" though.
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Dec 29, 2022 19:03
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They can use it all they want they just have to take a different glitch out to get below the two glitch maximum enforced on all speedruns
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Dec 29, 2022 23:51
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I enjoy speedruns of all types but I will say glitch speedruns tend to grab my attention. The spectacle of them is something I appreciate.
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Dec 30, 2022 02:41
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Glitched speedruns are only acceptable when the glitches are dumb as gently caress.
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Dec 30, 2022 04:06
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Glitches rule
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Dec 30, 2022 04:42
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I draw the line at glitches that are just time consuming to pull off, like the Gale Shrine skip in Okami that's just several minutes of frame perfect inputs to jump from the start of the dungeon to the end.
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Dec 30, 2022 04:49
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Imo it all depends on the community, what it does to the run, and if it's interesting. Boshy has a boss with a leftover debug command. You can mash a button and it stays in place, doing nothing. Is it interesting? A little bit, and the boss itself isn't that interesting, and adds obnoxious randomness to the run. The runners agreed they could use it, the dev hasn't patched it out, and now no one ever has to fight Ganon normally again. But there's a reason that like, HL2 runners don't just load the map in the console. This SOTN debug command is really unique, and if they don't care what it skips then hell yeah more power to them.
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Dec 30, 2022 09:20
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An example of a non-fun non-interesting glitch would be a race game where you can technically get a time of 0.00.00 by pause buffering every frame (and there may exist a real instance of this, but I can't recall exactly). It obviously wouldn't make for good viewing or good competition. A few of OneShortEye's videos talk about the glitch / platform discussion (often relating to Dosbox / SCUMM VM) in a few cases where disagreement and performance differences exist. I feel that communities will eventually migrate to whatever way is more fun most of the time. And if it's actually fun to do something different that's what categories and category extensions are for.
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Dec 30, 2022 11:15
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a good example of a real instance of that would be the silent hill thing mentioned a few posts up
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Dec 30, 2022 13:03
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Or zipping in elden ring, which was hardware dependent and totally destroyed all gameplay and ended up quarantined to its own little unrestricted category instead of regular any%.
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Dec 30, 2022 14:51
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ZeusCannon posted:I enjoy speedruns of all types but I will say glitch speedruns tend to grab my attention. Especially true if the glitched run primarily revolves around one or two super overpowered glitches that just get repeated - watching you glitch Out of Bounds and skip a level might interest me the first time when you're explaining the tech, but it loses luster for me real quick. Different strokes/different folks and all I guess.
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Dec 30, 2022 15:23
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it's kinda cool when there's a super overpowered glitch to totally skip a level, but the setup for it is also really long, so it's only actually worth using like once or twice in the run.
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Dec 30, 2022 15:32
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I like em both in different contexts, I think. On one hand a good Mario 64 120 star run is absolute poetry in motion- no downtime, no pauses, just an hour and a half of Italian plumber acrobatics. On the other hand, every year or so they discovered something new and hideous in the Ocarina of Time code and use it for dark magics. First it's things like using bottles to manipulate ram, then you're warping into cutscenes, next you name Link something stupid and that lets you start doing criminal acts to the game's code.
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Dec 30, 2022 15:35
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It's not a glitch but Final Fantasy 10 is a good example of runners optimizing the rules for fun, they collectively decided that it should be allowed to hack the game to skip most of the cutscenes. This reduces WR pace from ~10 hours to ~3 hours.
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Dec 30, 2022 15:37
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YggiDee posted:I like em both in different contexts, I think. On one hand a good Mario 64 120 star run is absolute poetry in motion- no downtime, no pauses, just an hour and a half of Italian plumber acrobatics. On the other hand, every year or so they discovered something new and hideous in the Ocarina of Time code and use it for dark magics. First it's things like using bottles to manipulate ram, then you're warping into cutscenes, next you name Link something stupid and that lets you start doing criminal acts to the game's code.
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Dec 30, 2022 16:27
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repiv posted:It's not a glitch but Final Fantasy 10 is a good example of runners optimizing the rules for fun, they collectively decided that it should be allowed to hack the game to skip most of the cutscenes. This reduces WR pace from ~10 hours to ~3 hours. They do something similar (though less drastic) in Super Mario Sunshine, using a hacked save file to skip the five and a half minutes of normally-unskippable cutscenes at the beginning of every run, and they just add the length of the cutscenes to the run time.
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Dec 30, 2022 17:48
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It's always interesting to me, when a speed run that used to have technically demanding cutscene skips has a ruleset change that obviates those skips. I don't think it's always a bad thing and it's really up to the game's community. But it just goes to show how every community decides for itself what skills are valued in its competitive environment.
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Dec 30, 2022 17:58
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Do HL2 runners still have to do that one thing where they hit npcs on the head with props to make them move to their next location faster
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Dec 30, 2022 18:52
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FirstAidKite posted:Do HL2 runners still have to do that one thing where they hit npcs on the head with props to make them move to their next location faster I believe so? That's all in-engine and seems like it'd be almost impossible to excise anyways.
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Dec 30, 2022 19:03
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given how many ingame exposition parts there are it'd be impossible to not have them. it's an in-engine failsafe to help prevent softlocks and they're just using that to their advantage
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Dec 30, 2022 19:17
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TACD posted:Speedruns exist on a spectrum with “optimal gameplay” at one end and “computer programming” at the other Close, but it's actually this 
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Dec 30, 2022 19:38
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repiv posted:It's not a glitch but Final Fantasy 10 is a good example of runners optimizing the rules for fun, they collectively decided that it should be allowed to hack the game to skip most of the cutscenes. This reduces WR pace from ~10 hours to ~3 hours. ffx speedruns ftw
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Dec 30, 2022 19:47
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TACD posted:Speedruns exist on a spectrum with “optimal gameplay” at one end and “computer programming” at the other And I'm not even sure what Paper Mario Stop 'n' Swop percent counts as. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMkH3XFDQDM
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Dec 30, 2022 20:49
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neonchameleon posted:And I'm not even sure what Paper Mario Stop 'n' Swop percent counts as. 
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Dec 30, 2022 20:54
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My favorite unsolved problems in computer science run is Hack n' Slash. The game is already about unsolved problems in computer science and you play by reprogramming game assets. It's supposed to have checks in place that prevent you from making it load the end of the game early but you can bypass them by setting your file name to be the location of the room in the games files and then calling the $name string in your code.
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Dec 30, 2022 22:08
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I should go back and play that game again; I tried to be too clever and overwrote the fonts for the glyphs with the plain-text ones and I think that kinda spoiled a lot of it.
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Dec 30, 2022 22:12
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I think the weird glitch runs like elden ring slide stuff and whatever the gently caress Ocarina of Time is are neat but ultimately do not enjoy them at all because you're skipping all of the actual gameplay. Games like Doom 2016 where you get some crazy skips and glitches but also some completely perfect game execution are a perfect middle ground for me.
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Dec 31, 2022 04:01
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Tism the Dragon Tickler posted:I think the weird glitch runs like elden ring slide stuff and whatever the gently caress Ocarina of Time is are neat but ultimately do not enjoy them at all because you're skipping all of the actual gameplay. Games like Doom 2016 where you get some crazy skips and glitches but also some completely perfect game execution are a perfect middle ground for me. Exactly the reason why No Major Glitches runs are popular. I wanna see the game played quickly but not completely skipped. A great example is Zelda LTTP where you have the Exploration Glitch that allows you to beat the game in 2-3 minutes, but that's boring to watch.
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Dec 31, 2022 05:25
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SeXReX posted:Close, but it's actually this
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Dec 31, 2022 09:47
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TACD posted:Out of curiosity, what speedrun would people put in each of the extreme corners? I’m thinking Super Mario Bros. for “x-games” and that TAS where they reprogrammed Super Mario World to play Snake and Pong for “unsolved problems”, not sure about “math olympiad” though i'm thinking the fallout 3 run where a dude provided an actual physical prop to describe the hosed up seventh-dimensional geometry of the skip he was about to do
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Dec 31, 2022 10:45
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TACD posted:Out of curiosity, what speedrun would people put in each of the extreme corners? I’m thinking Super Mario Bros. for “x-games” and that TAS where they reprogrammed Super Mario World to play Snake and Pong for “unsolved problems”, not sure about “math olympiad” though Tetris or Doom for xgames. Probably one of the heavy RNG manipulation RPGs for maths olympiad, like chrono trigger, final fantasy or pokemon
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Dec 31, 2022 11:49
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Dragon Warrior any% is basically just an optimal path problem at this point with the RNG being fully manipulated.
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Dec 31, 2022 14:26
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TACD posted:Out of curiosity, what speedrun would people put in each of the extreme corners? I’m thinking Super Mario Bros. for “x-games” and that TAS where they reprogrammed Super Mario World to play Snake and Pong for “unsolved problems”, not sure about “math olympiad” though
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Dec 31, 2022 14:56
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The SM64 ABC is deffo over in "unsolved problems" when you consider the multiple years of bruteforcing being thrown at Bowser in the Fire Sea.
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Dec 31, 2022 15:24
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