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To be clear, it's not a huge issue it just always throws me for a loop. I could give ballpark figures, but costs fluctuate a lot over a year. I guess maybe I'm a moron for not knowing the exact yen per gram of Saaz hops ordered on a given date but I don't have that kind of memory. It's never a huge issue but it's odd to me that there's this reaction of disbelief that I don't have exact numbers memorized without consulting paperwork or receipts.
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Dec 31, 2022 17:19
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Escape From Noise posted:To be clear, it's not a huge issue it just always throws me for a loop. I could give ballpark figures, but costs fluctuate a lot over a year. I guess maybe I'm a moron for not knowing the exact yen per gram of Saaz hops ordered on a given date but I don't have that kind of memory. It's never a huge issue but it's odd to me that there's this reaction of disbelief that I don't have exact numbers memorized without consulting paperwork or receipts. Maybe he doesn't need exact, maybe he's just looking for ballpark figures? Maybe it's expected that when you finish a brew you know how much it cost or the price per finished/saleable liter? You should ask! None of these are unreasonable requests. He's probably very confused as to how you don't know this. It's basic business and the kind of thing anyone who is selling something they produce needs to know to control costs and set prices. It might even be tax related and a super big deal. Who knows? You could. But you'd have to have that conversation. You're not just a brewer here: you're the brewing business unit. So this all falls to you.
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Dec 31, 2022 17:47
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He's asking for exact figures.
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Dec 31, 2022 17:58
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madeintaipei posted:Alright. Next meeting, y'all sit down over a shift meal and lead with, "Mmm. This is excellent! How much did it cost/gram?" Raise one, and only one, eyebrow while staring into RM's eyes. Slowly slide a calculator watch across the table. Proceed as if nothing happened. I take it you've never worked in a well functioning restaurant. Someone there is responsible for knowing this and they absolutely do know what things cost per portion and perhaps per gram based on that. Again, basic business. If you don't know what your product costs how do choose a sale price? How do you evaluate if that sale price is still appropriate? Whether you should still carry a product or if it's simply too expensive to sell enough of and a substitute product would generate more margin? Do you think successful businesses just guess at whether they're making a profit or not? These are the very unglorious jobs that need to get done to run a business well. It's all of that poo poo the Canada wannabe restauranteur fail child couldn't be bothered to do and there were entirely predictable results from that.
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Dec 31, 2022 18:23
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He's literally asking me point blank and acts shocked if I have to consult orders and receipts which I provide through an email chain but keep sucking his balls I guess.
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Dec 31, 2022 18:26
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Escape From Noise posted:He's literally asking me point blank and acts shocked if I have to consult orders and receipts which I provide through an email chain but keep sucking his balls I guess. In your narrative here everyone you work around and everywhere you've worked are the problem. Think about that. Think about the commonality between all of these situations and the likelihood that it's everyone else.
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Dec 31, 2022 18:28
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Motronic posted:In your narrative here everyone you work around and everywhere you've worked are the problem. Think about that. Think about the commonality between all of these situations and the likelihood that it's everyone else. Yeah. Two people equal everyone around me. Nailed it.
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Dec 31, 2022 18:31
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How do you create a product to sell and not have a spreadsheet somewhere that tracks or breaks down cost per unit? That's some stupid poo poo your work does.
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Dec 31, 2022 18:32
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Isn't the restaurant manager the one who constantly misses out on large keg sales because he never reads his e-mails? I think the point Escape from Noise is trying to make is that this information is freely accessible without asking him. This is the, "per my last e-mail," of this exchange, but it also sounds like, "per the e-mail receipt from the order you placed..."
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Dec 31, 2022 18:35
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That's my thing, I'm fine with helping with getting the information, but if you ask me the price of a given malt or hop per kg point blank I just don't have that memorized. I always CC the relevant parties in all of my ordering emails. I can tell you the volume of materials used per batch if asked. I may have to consult my records, but I have the numbers. Text me on my day off about that and well, I may not have the information readily available.
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Dec 31, 2022 18:39
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Either way, happy new year you fuckin' buttholes! Hope it's a good one!
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Dec 31, 2022 18:41
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Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:Isn't the restaurant manager the one who constantly misses out on large keg sales because he never reads his e-mails? I think the point Escape from Noise is trying to make is that this information is freely accessible without asking him. This is the, "per my last e-mail," of this exchange, but it also sounds like, "per the e-mail receipt from the order you placed..." maybe there is some connection between the restaurant manager not being given cost info and not bothering to push the beers in the restaurant or make keg sales?
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Dec 31, 2022 18:55
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Motronic is making the point in his very particular way, but he is right. If every month or quarter or whatever he comes to you with this question and every time he does you give him a blank stare then there’s some disconnect here. Maybe it’s worth keeping a spreadsheet in Google docs and giving him access to it or something, or maybe you should be forwarding those invoices to him so he can fill out whatever paperwork without bothering you. I think you may be letting his general ineptitude color your perception of a reasonable request a little bit, and stepping back and thinking on what you can do to anticipate that request would make life easier for both of you. That being said this is also the Dumb poo poo your work does thread, not the “boring minutiae of my day-to-day business interactions” so the chance that we’re all missing some sort of additional context is high.
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Dec 31, 2022 19:00
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no, for some people this is very much the 'bitch about boring unrelatable minutia at your job' thread
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Dec 31, 2022 19:03
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Motronic posted:In your narrative here everyone you work around and everywhere you've worked are the problem. Think about that. Think about the commonality between all of these situations and the likelihood that it's everyone else. Man, you must really love gargling your boss's balls.
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Dec 31, 2022 19:03
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Again, I can retrieve the info if needed. I just can't remember it on demand. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of the running prices of a given material. I know where to find it. I can't just give you the price of a kilo of Crisp Best Ale Malt as soon as I'm asked.
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Dec 31, 2022 19:06
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McGavin posted:Man, you must really love gargling your boss's balls. I'm not even quite sure how to respond to this. But I'm not in a position where I require income from working. Let's try it that way. So no, there is no reason for me to kiss anyones rear end for any reason. it's simply not necessary.
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Dec 31, 2022 19:07
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Motronic posted:I'm not even quite sure how to respond to this. But I'm not in a position where I require income from working. Let's try it that way. lmao of course are you a landlord too?
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Dec 31, 2022 19:12
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Look, they're just very much above it. Can't you plebs understand?
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Dec 31, 2022 19:13
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How do you design a beer without knowing cost of sales?
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Dec 31, 2022 19:15
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COPE 27 posted:How do you design a beer without knowing cost of sales? Very carefully
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Dec 31, 2022 19:16
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Bitching about your boss asking how much it costs to make something so they can figure out profit each quarter is something stupid your work does, but maybe not in the way you think it is.
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Dec 31, 2022 19:17
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I don't recall EFN ever saying anything other than "I don't know exact price for this ingredient for this batch off-hand" and I'm having difficulty understanding why some people are having difficulty parsing this
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Dec 31, 2022 19:19
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Escape From Noise posted:That's my thing, I'm fine with helping with getting the information, but if you ask me the price of a given malt or hop per kg point blank I just don't have that memorized. I always CC the relevant parties in all of my ordering emails. I can tell you the volume of materials used per batch if asked. I may have to consult my records, but I have the numbers. Text me on my day off about that and well, I may not have the information readily available. This is an entirely acceptable response to the request. Anyone who expects you to have photographic memory of individual purchase orders can go piss up a rope.
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Dec 31, 2022 19:26
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Dance Officer posted:I don't recall EFN ever saying anything other than "I don't know exact price for this ingredient for this batch off-hand" and I'm having difficulty understanding why some people are having difficulty parsing this It's goons. Everyone is talking past each other. EFN has all the numbers and data, written down and documented, but half the goons here decided on a narrative of them not having the numbers at all. The problem EFN is having us a lack of instant recall when asked, and that the asker is upset they have to look it up.
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Dec 31, 2022 19:43
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tak posted:lmao of course The stupid poo poo my work did was pay me well and enter into the IPO lottery. You aren't going to find me apologizing for learning how to win at the system I was thrown into. And no, I don't think being a small time landlord is a particularly good investment. It's the kind of thing people who find themselves with capital and don't know much about anything do because the day to day part of it is understandable to them even if they don't understand the concentrated risk part. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 31, 2022 21:14
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At this point we're just lucky we haven't had a "how to build the spreadsheet" derail. Because that would be Smart poo poo Your Work Does.
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Jan 1, 2023 02:27
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He actually does have a spreadsheet he plugs the numbers into. I really just found it really odd that he expected me to know exact prices offhand. It didn't really upset me or anything. I guess it really upset some people ITT though.
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Jan 1, 2023 07:09
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If you just tell him, he’ll never learn to look at those emails he is cc’d on and record the information when he is reading them
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Jan 1, 2023 08:02
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The Gillman posted:If you just tell him, he’ll never learn to look at those emails he is cc’d on and record the information when he is reading them That's generally what happens anyway. He'll look up from the computer or text me asking what the price of something is, I say I don't know, he acts befuddled, then a little while later he contacts me again to let me know that he found the email with the prices. Rinse and repeat. Escape From Noise fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Jan 1, 2023 |
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Jan 1, 2023 08:47
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Sounds like a weird flex
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Jan 1, 2023 10:12
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mllaneza posted:At this point we're just lucky we haven't had a "how to build the spreadsheet" derail. Because that would be Smart poo poo Your Work Does. Last job I had in the graphics industry: one manager introduced a simple, easy to use and readily accessible Google docs list to show all the jobs in the house and show their level of completion/what dept they were currently in, when they were due and which jobs needed to be done first. It was really basic but quite handy since anyone could access it from anywhere in the shop and get info on a project, update its status or add notes to it and poo poo. They brought some dude in from another company who was one of those people who simply Likes To Be In Charge, whether his decisions make any sense or not. You probably know the type. He decided to get rid of the Google Docs and print out a big dry erase white board to hang in in the production area. This meant that I/we had to go to ONE spot in a big facility and manually write down or erase the same information we had before that we could use from any PC in the shop. No one could see it, you had to stop what you were doing and walk away from your work to update or look at it and we moved our production meetings from the conference room to the factory area next to big stupid board where there were no chairs, no CPU access and it was quite loud. It was just less efficient all the way around and only existed because John had an idea for a Big White Board. He had a lot of ideas like that, almost all of which were just to demonstrate visibly that He Was In Charge. Take something that's working fine and change it into something worse just to "Make A Management Decision"; and with zero feedback from the workers actually doing things. I spoke up a few times when I saw something stupid that would make our jobs harder and got fired for my trouble. I'd worked there for 11 years and was never asked for my input on anything.
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Jan 1, 2023 16:18
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As soon as you have to scroll more than one direction on a spreadsheet, it's ruined. You will not change my mind.
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Jan 1, 2023 16:36
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Samuel L. Hacksaw posted:As soon as you have to scroll more than one direction on a spreadsheet, it's ruined. You will not change my mind. Does it still count if you make the cells so narrow they are unreadable? Or how about the boomers that need the resolution of their monitor at 600x800 to be able to read anything and can only have a spreadsheet like 6 cells wide?
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Jan 1, 2023 16:44
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What I'm getting from the Escape from Noise's posts is he just wants to do the brewing part and none of the business poo poo, which is totally fair but yes it likely means he'll just be brewing in obscurity because there's clearly no one handling the business portion as well as they should. It seems clear he thinks it should be someone else's job from the business side to take all those purchases and put them in a spreadsheet to track costs, which is why he keeps sending the receipts along, so someone else can track this stuff. But what's also clear is that tactic of intentionally passive-aggresively dropping the ball so someone else picks it up isn't working, so eventually you have to decide between one of two paths: 1) You decide that you want to maintain the boundaries you have set with work and the level of responsibility you've taken on, and don't want to take on any more, which means you have to be willing to accept much of your labor will likely get wasted in the current system and you have to learn to just be ok with that because at least you get to keep doing what's in your purview and keep it manageable. Basically, the 'keep your head down' strategy of working 2) You realize no one else is gonna do this poo poo to make it better just bc you are eschewing it, and you realize you're actually just making your own experience at work worse so you do it just to spare your own sanity, even if it's kinda bullshit that you gotta be the one doing it. In this case that would be sure, building the spreadsheet, but also taking a more active role in having the manager push sales on the beer that is brewed in-house, and communicating more of your ideas and possibly even leading marketing projects related to those ideas. Which yeah would be a lot of work but could be fulfilling, if you feel passionately about any portion of it, whether that be the brew, or the restaurant or locals, or whathaveyou. Option 1) only works if you can truly divorce yourself from your job, Let That poo poo Go, and stop letting it bother you. But if you're going to choose option 1) and still complain when you feel poo poo is done wrong, yeh it gets old fast. Then it's like, bro just DO something, or get a therapist. StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jan 1, 2023 |
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Jan 1, 2023 16:52
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Samuel L. Hacksaw posted:As soon as you have to scroll more than one direction on a spreadsheet, it's ruined. You will not change my mind. If you aren't freezing your first columns/rows in an L-shape for easy browsing, are you even spreadsheeting?
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Jan 1, 2023 16:53
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JFC. I just thought it was weird that the dude expected me to know specific prices for specific malts offhand. If they wanted me to calculate those costs or whatever, I'm fine with doing it, but that responsibility has been given to someone else.
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Jan 1, 2023 17:22
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StrangersInTheNight posted:What I'm getting from the Escape from Noise's posts is he just wants to do the brewing part and none of the business poo poo, which is totally fair but yes it likely means he'll just be brewing in obscurity because there's clearly no one handling the business portion as well as they should. How do you misunderstand something someone wrote so badly that you feel the need to write a dissertation about it?
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Jan 1, 2023 17:43
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Escape From Noise posted:JFC. I just thought it was weird that the dude expected me to know specific prices for specific malts offhand. If they wanted me to calculate those costs or whatever, I'm fine with doing it, but that responsibility has been given to someone else. Yea its a weird flex cultural thing coming from the manager. There is no reason for you to expect yourself to have instant recollection of the price/kilo of an ingredient you used 2 months ago. This is what documentation is for, and thats why you CCd the documentation to everyone who would need that info, as you say you have done. Even if you did maintain a spreadsheet containing all this you still wouldn’t have it top of mind when todays pop quiz happens, so it does not address the issue. The other goons are just being goons about it. Mgr is being a mgr.
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Jan 1, 2023 17:44
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And happy new year
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Jan 1, 2023 17:44
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