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Strange that the obvious flaw (and counterflaw) isn't mentioned: if the traitors intend to use PRAYing to get people killed, all they have to do is not vote as assigned. However, that should theoretically then provide a clue as to which group the traitor is in. (I say strange it wasn't mentioned because it was brought up as a reason not to have everyone just vote 'no one')
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Jan 3, 2023 02:13
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You don't even really get info doing this because there are 2 traitors, so getting any useful information requires them both to act, while the votes at 4x a round give them plenty of leeway to fake compliance for a round or 4 and let the other traitor and high round count work for them. Ox and dragon basically just volunteered to risk being the first victim to no gain. The rules as written basically demand a game of mafia, because shooting for a tie is just handing complete control to the traitors.
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Jan 3, 2023 04:40
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This is bad. Traitors can disrupt any attempts to force a tie, either by flipping their vote or by disrupting someone else from voting (e.g., being in the same room as them, going on the usual killing spree, etc.). Jurors won't have enough time to search, coordinate prayer votes, and piece things together since the prayer frequency is too high. There are enough prayer rounds for Bunny and Dog to take out everyone before the end of the race. If they manage to cooperate, they're safe at the final 4 (vote against the other two) or final 2 (vote against each other), though it then comes down to whether Bunny has the actions to reach the finish line. Alternatively, a group may decide to form a voting bloc after this first vote goes awry. The side on the majority can try to trust each other and form a final 6 alliance. This seems plausible, so I predict that Dog flips, eliminating Ox. In turn, he and his entire team become targets, and they get whittled down by the majority group. At final 6, Bunny will try to form a Victorious 4 group to bounce to the end, so it'll be up to Mouse to figure out how to save 5 people instead of 4. ---------------------- Is there a better vote split solution? I don't think there's a perfectly reliable way, but Ox's proposal is weak. A known 6 on Ox and a known 6 on Dragon allows traitors to flip their vote and cause execution. It'd be better if the traitors do not know who the targets are beforehand and if there are more than 2 targets involved in the tie so that vote removal becomes less of a threat. Is 3 targets enough? 4-4-4 is decent defense against a single traitor, but there are two traitors. If both flip, 4-3-3-1-1 is still fatal. A 4 group split can be 3-3-3-3 and eliminates the threat of vote removal. Targets should be determined randomly by each group w/o any contact with other groups. The only way for the traitors to win is to push the vote count to 4 or higher in a group, giving them about a 3/9 = 1/3 shot of identifying someone in a different group. Such attempts are risky since they'll be in a group of size 3; there's nowhere to hide.
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Jan 3, 2023 04:55
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The only saving grace is that neither of the traitors know who the other traitor are (unlike Mafia/Resistance/etc.). There are a few possible outcomes from the first vote: Traitors are in opposite groups, both betray - vote count ties Traitors are in opposite groups, one betrays - one person gets 7 votes, and we know that at least one traitor is among the group of 5. Start offering up sacrifices from the group of 5 until the betrayal stops. Traitors are in opposite groups, neither betrays - vote count ties Traitors are in same group, both betray - one person gets 8 votes, and we know that both traitors are among the group of 4. Offer up sacrifices from the group of 4 until the betrayal stops Traitors are in same group, one betrays - one person gets 7 votes, and we know that at least one traitor is among the group of 5. Start offering up sacrifices from the group of 5 until the betrayal stops. Traitors are in same group, neither betrays - vote count ties Regardless, it's going to be a bloodbath. The above also assumes that the non-traitors coordinate, which is a tricky thing when their lives are literally on the line. Add to that that the prayer happens 3 times a round, and it's going to be nearly impossible for proper coordination to happen. And then god knows what happens if people start getting weapons.
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Jan 3, 2023 06:07
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Thinking about it more, the best way is to have a 12-way tie where all votes are decided beforehand. Whoever failed to cast the expected vote is revealed as a traitor. Being revealed instantly makes it extremely unfavorable to betray the group.
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Jan 3, 2023 07:34
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NeoRonTheNeuron posted:Thinking about it more, the best way is to have a 12-way tie where all votes are decided beforehand. Whoever failed to cast the expected vote is revealed as a traitor. Being revealed instantly makes it extremely unfavorable to betray the group. Yeah, the obvious strategy is "everyone votes for the animal above/below you on the board" for a 12-way tie, and then a traitor would out themself after a single kill. Also I'm assuming this is a typo/writing error: quote:The votes will be anonymous, but it will be revealed how many people voted for the participant. If everyone selects 'no one' or if multiple people receive an equal amount of votes, no one will be executed. "multiple people receive an equal amount of votes" will happen in literally every voting configuration. It's not possible for anyone to be killed under these rules, as written.
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Jan 3, 2023 09:21
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King of Bleh posted:"multiple people receive an equal amount of votes" will happen in literally every voting configuration. It's not possible for anyone to be killed under these rules, as written. It depends on how much formal logic you want to apply. For example, if you define the set "multiple people who received an equal amount of votes" as "People who received votes and the amount of votes is equal", well, no problem there, since any 0s are automatically ignored. Which is clearly what's intended.
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Jan 3, 2023 11:24
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The "what if both traitors were in the same group?" line made me chuckle. Poor Mouse. Don't have much to say except that someone's super dead here, everyone above already went through the logic better than I could.
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Jan 3, 2023 12:51
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I instantly knew it would turn really bad when Dog explains that the votes would be anonymous. No way the traitors will actually follow the plan outlined within the group.NeoRonTheNeuron posted:Thinking about it more, the best way is to have a 12-way tie where all votes are decided beforehand. Whoever failed to cast the expected vote is revealed as a traitor. Being revealed instantly makes it extremely unfavorable to betray the group. This is probably the most simple way to handle the situation. I'm surprised they didn't think of that, but then again they were probably a little too panicked to think of it. I'm also quite suspicious of Bunny. I'm 100% sure he saw the last digit, and because of that he could have easily entered the last one while someone else would have to go through each number. But then again, that's assuming he's the traitor.
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Jan 3, 2023 17:43
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Sketchie posted:I'm also quite suspicious of Bunny. I'm 100% sure he saw the last digit, and because of that he could have easily entered the last one while someone else would have to go through each number. But then again, that's assuming he's the traitor. We know he's the traitor. We saw who the Defeated and Victorious personalities were on the Dog route. So welp, Mouse is in the group with both traitors.
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Jan 3, 2023 17:47
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King of Bleh posted:Yeah, the obvious strategy is "everyone votes for the animal above/below you on the board" for a 12-way tie, and then a traitor would out themself after a single kill. This has a similar problem as everyone choosing not to vote though: it puts everyone one vote from being executed, and people are going to panic and vote differently so they don't die, even knowing they'll be outed. Also, while the characters don't know this, WE already know that Dog has the Defeated personality and Bunny has the Victorious personality from Dog's route (and thus far there's been no sign that the personalities assigned change between routes, just which ones are activated). The real question is if that makes this Bunny's route, or another person is going to steal the spotlight, seeing as we've had two routes where the person in question wasn't (initially) one of the activated personalities.
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Jan 3, 2023 17:49
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Regallion posted:It depends on how much formal logic you want to apply. For example, if you define the set "multiple people who received an equal amount of votes" as "People who received votes and the amount of votes is equal", well, no problem there, since any 0s are automatically ignored. Which is clearly what's intended. Even if you give the benefit of the doubt and omit zeros from this rule, it still means a tie for second-place (or third, or...) would prevent execution. There's no stipulation on which ties are or are not relevant, at all. Again, this seems quite likely to just be a writing error, but it's an egregiously large loophole in the rules of the game if taken at face value.
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Jan 3, 2023 19:50
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Yeah I assume they meant if there's a tie for most votes.
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Jan 3, 2023 20:45
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King of Bleh posted:Also I'm assuming this is a typo/writing error: It's specifically in regards to whoever got the most votes. Dog's reading from a sheet, so what he's reading is: "At the end of a 'Pray' cycle, the participant whose name was entered by the most people will receive holy judgment, and will be executed. The votes will be anonymous, but it will be revealed how many people voted for the participant. If everyone selects 'no one' or if multiple people receive an equal amount of votes, no one will be executed." Therefore, the discussion around "equal amount of votes" is in regards to "who has the most votes"- if they're tied with someone else with the same amount. It doesn't matter if there's a tie for second place or third or whatever, if someone has the most votes, and have the most votes alone, that person will die.
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Jan 3, 2023 20:46
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Additionally, I feel like if somebody (Snake) tried to argue that point with Brian, they would find themselves executed shortly after.
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Jan 3, 2023 22:09
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Doubtless yes, enforcement/fidelity to the rules is pretty arbitrary anyway as we've seen on the Dog route already, it's an amusing mistake though.
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Jan 3, 2023 22:15
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Marluxia posted:We know he's the traitor. We saw who the Defeated and Victorious personalities were on the Dog route. So welp, Mouse is in the group with both traitors. No one confirmed it by reading the note, not even Bunny. So it's plausible.
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Jan 4, 2023 02:01
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King of Bleh posted:Doubtless yes, enforcement/fidelity to the rules is pretty arbitrary anyway as we've seen on the Dog route already, it's an amusing mistake though. Was there a discrepancy on Dog's route though? I recall that the one game where the exact rules of a Taming Whip use weren't followed was subtly because the Taming Whip hadn't actually been used. In the game where Snake challenged Dog, there was no announcement that the Taming Whip had been invoked, and Dog used the heat of the moment to lead everything along as though it was a Taming attempt, which is why the Taming rules weren't actually in effect. Even looking back on the update, Snake never formally went into a room to invoke the Whip, merely instead just stepping forward and saying "I'll do it."
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Jan 4, 2023 03:11
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Sketchie posted:You know, it does make me wonder... did Dog potentially lie about how the Prayer Statue works? Not necessarily the entire thing, but maybe he added, changed or omitted something important so he could take advantage of it. It was stated that the rules were read out loud, presumably the same way they were for butcher's knife.
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Jan 4, 2023 11:24
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 [BGM: Silence]  Whatever. I couldn't linger on bad feelings. I had to keep up forward momentum. I returned to the cafeteria. By the time everyone returned, the 15 minute cycle was almost up. We ignored that, and talked about searching strategy.   After we confirm that everything worked out fine, we'll gather back up in the groups we were in and resume our search. The important thing is to stay focused. If we rush and miss a Trinket, then mark a room as searched, we can be really screwing ourselves in the long run. We need 10 Minor Trinkets, no matter what. 12 of course would be ideal, but-Ox was interrupted by an announcement that played on our tablets.' [BGM: Mousetrap]   With a total of 6 prayers, the great Draconic Gods have heeded the group's wishes and strike down Ox. Dam-Ox couldn't even get out a curse before starting to choke.  Ox! Wh-what's wrong with him?! The execution process. It's begun. No![BGM: A True Foal]  But Snake was right. Ox's face had begun to turn a strange color, and he clawed at his own throat. Drips of blood had started to come down from under the collar. The knives must've already been in his throat. He thrashed and swayed in a delirious, horrifying dance. Eventually, it was too much for him. His knees buckled to the floor. His body followed shortly after. And a corpse now lay in the cafeteria.  AAAAAAGH! Ox... no... Damnit, damnit, damnit!! What the hell?! Brian, you bastard! gently caress you! gently caress you and all you stand for, you loving murderer! Piece of poo poo! Mouse, calm down! Excuse me? I know you have the right to be angry, but we need to think about what this means rationally if we don't want more to follow him. …I hated it, but Bunny was right. My rage was just supplanting my sorrow. I didn't know Ox for long, but he seemed really nice. We woke up in the same room, so I felt like I knew him the best. He was a leader of the group. And to end up like this? No. Both anger and sadness were out of place. [BGM: Bullfighter]  I needed to once again bottle up my emotions. Because though I screamed at him, Brian wasn't the one who caused Ox to die. It was someone in this room.  What on earth was that about? I thought Dragon was supposed to get 6 votes too! Dragon, the hell is this about? Why are you looking at me? I did what I was supposed to. I was one of Ox's 6 votes. If you're looking to blame anyone, look at the people who were supposed to vote for me, because one of them didn't hold up their end of the bargain! Excluding Ox... that's five people. Tiger, Snake, Rooster, Horse, and Dog. So does that mean the person who used the Major Trinket is one of them? Unfortunately, it's not that easy. Huh? God, this seems like a big pain, but it looks like I'm gonna have to really do some work today, huh? Let's assume that all non-traitors were completely loyal and fearless and did what they were told to with no ulterior motives. Say we buy that. I do. We're still left with the problem that we're not dealing with only one traitor. There's two people who didn't out their personalities. poo poo. You're right, Dog. Even if one person started this 'prayer' nonsense, now that it's active, there's two people who benefit from people dying. That means that, even though the two don't know who the other person is, those with abnormal personalities are basically partners who both benefit from using this system to kill others. We can guess that at least one of the traitors are in that list, but it's going to be a big pain narrowing it down from there. Even if we attempted this 'tying' shtick five or six more times, it'd still be a struggle to know for sure who's the traitor.  So what you're saying is that the tying plan won't work, and that we're totally doomed?! Didn't say that. Just said what I said. Still, the traitors certainly got lucky. After all, if the two were voting for different people, and both decided to switch their vote, not only would there be a tie, but we'd know two people tried to betray the group. Snake, that's it! Oh? I know how we can beat the traitors. Uh, sorta.  Actually, this might be a really dumb idea, so I shouldn't... Just say it.[BGM: Stampede of Truth]  Okay, so the two traitors don't know each other, right? So it would be difficult for them to plan. Right. I think instead of us making a big tie, we should make a little tie. You mean like a '1 vote each' type of tie? I'll be honest, I haven't totally 100 percent exactly been paying too much attention, so I might be off base in saying this, but wouldn't that make it easier for someone to get voted out, not harder? If we knew how the tie would go, it would. B-but what if we made it so the traitors didn't know who would be voted? Two of us will be the designated voters, and the rest of us will choose to vote 'no one'. The two voters will then each vote someone separately, but the rest of us won't know which two people they vote. That way, the traitors won't know who's getting a vote, so they'll have to randomly guess who to choose. Even if both of them guess, it'll usually end with four people getting one vote each. Not to be dismissive, but doesn't this plan have a fairly glaring flaw? If one of the traitors votes the same person that one of our designated 'voters' chooses, that person will die. That's why I said the system was flawed. It leaves things to chance, and it has the possibility of going wrong. Eh. It still seems like our best bet. Not like I'm seeing a better plan to go with. We could also use this to help figure out who the traitors are! If it says that we have a four-way tie, we'll know that the two 'designated voters' are both definitely innocent! Are you sure about that? Hm? I don't think it said that they'd announce who was voted in the case of a tie. You're right, they didn't. But they might do that, I don't know. I think it's unclear at the moment. I see a problem with this plan. Another one? If one of the 'designated voters' is a traitor, they'll know who their partner is voting, and can copy that vote. The odds that at least one of our 'designated voters' is a traitor is 2/11, which isn't that low. The two designated voters could just not tell each other who they planned to vote. That's better, but then we're risking the designated voters choosing the same person. I know!  We can have a system where the voters write all 11 of our names on sheets of paper, then fold them up. Then they can choose a different sheet of paper, look at who they need to vote, then throw their sheets away. And afterwards they'll also throw the rest of the paper away. That way, they're definitely voting for different people, but they don't know who the other person is voting. That sounds like a great compromise! If that all works for everyone, I suggest we get a move on. These 15 minute cycles are far less forgiving than the 45 minute round cycles. In an effort to keep things moving, I'll volunteer to be one designated voter. Then I'll be the other. Great teamwork and choosing efficiency, guys![BGM: Silence]  Yeah, yeah, just split up and vote. And also put in your moves for Round 5 while we're at it, we don't know when we'll have another chance. And break!Once again, we split into different rooms, this time with a better plan. However, there was a sense of deja vu. This was the same feeling I had when we split off last time. I was trying not to think about how that turned out. We had also spent two thirds of this round simply dealing with this prayer business instead of finding Minor Trinkets. It wasn't exactly a hopeful situation. Still, there wasn't much to do. I chose to RUN for Round 5, and I chose to pray against no one. Then, we met up in the cafeteria. This time, however, the group was silent. There were only seconds left until the end of the prayer cycle. The success or failure of our plan would be determined. We all held our breaths, waiting to hear the outcome. Then, we heard it. [BGM: Mousetrap]  With a total of 2 prayers, the great Draconic Gods have heeded the group's wishes and strike down Tiger.NO! This can't be-Similar to Ox, Tiger's last words were cut off. I couldn't watch again. I had to turn away. I wasn't the only one. In Tiger's final, thrashing, painful moments, all but three had their backs to her. Was this disrespectful? I didn't care. Watching someone as positive as Tiger die painfully like that would break my psyche. I just couldn't handle it.
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Jan 4, 2023 16:43
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Oof the body count on this route is something else.
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Jan 4, 2023 16:46
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Well, as soon as Dog volunteered to be one of the designated voters this plan was doomed.
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Jan 4, 2023 18:55
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I'm kind of surprised no one nominated dragon on account of her voluntarily wearing the "please kill me" shirt round 1.
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Jan 4, 2023 19:00
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Is there a set of voting rules that would guarantee a traitor is revealed? The vote is anonymous and they don't say how many votes other people got? Because as I'm seeing it right now, I don't really see a compelling reason for Bunny and Dog to not continue to kill people via voting? I can only think of a realistic way, if they kept the only two people votes, and then ensure no one except the voters is ever alone, so they can't vote. This wouldn't stop the run round, but it would slow down the rate of killing. Marluxia fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Jan 4, 2023 |
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Jan 4, 2023 19:46
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On reflection, since only the vote count for the dying player is revealed, I think it's impossible for any voting system to give enough information to reveal a traitor. It seems un-gameable in that sense. You can see where "extra" votes are added, but not their source.
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Jan 4, 2023 19:49
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Yeah, if only the max vote is revealed, attempting ties and identifying missing votes isn't going to work reliably. IMO, Dog is being a bit too obvious, but for the Tiger vote, Bunny could still have been the one to bump up the vote count to 2. I hope a voting bloc emerges soon.
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Jan 4, 2023 21:23
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NeoRonTheNeuron posted:Yeah, if only the max vote is revealed, attempting ties and identifying missing votes isn't going to work reliably. IMO, Dog is being a bit too obvious, but for the Tiger vote, Bunny could still have been the one to bump up the vote count to 2. I hope a voting bloc emerges soon. Unless Bunny got extremely lucky, that would mean Dog and Bunny identified each other earlier and Dog got a chance offscreen to tell Bunny who to vote for. I think it's more likely Dog marked the slips of paper and was able to tell which one Monkey picked. Then again, we've already had Dog's route so this has to be Bunny's.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:44
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"We're pretty sure the first round traitor is Tiger, Snake, Rooster, Horse, or Dog. Dog, you're in charge of the second round."
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Jan 4, 2023 23:31
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That tight time pressure makes it hard to plan or think straight.
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Jan 4, 2023 23:49
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Oof, this is going to turn ugly (well, uglier) real fast unless Mouse figures out who the tratior(s) are.
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Jan 5, 2023 00:26
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gegi posted:That tight time pressure makes it hard to plan or think straight. Yeah, it's what, 15 mins between each prayer? And they still have to go find minor trinkets to not die anyway. With the only information being the number of votes the "winner" gets, even having everyone vote for one other person isn't going to work. You don't know who wasn't voted for, so it's trivial to game the system. There is one other potential wrinkle - can votes be cast for dead people? That would be the ideal case, but even without external information, we can be almost certain that both traitors are alive, and the group is already down to 8 vs 2. And, of course, nothing stops a traitor from just shooting/stabbing/etc. someone else, as weapons are a thing.
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Jan 6, 2023 03:16
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Well, let's break it down a bit: Everyone has to vote for someone alive or for no one at all. At the end of the round the winner and the number of votes for them is announced. Now, there are 2 possibilities: A: the traitors are colluding B: the traitors are independent (they don't know who the other traitor is) For possibility B, simply ask everyone to vote randomly. Give them a die or something so they can avoid the bias. It doesn't matter if traitors are biased in this case, since well, everyone else is voting randomly, presumably rerolling if they voted themselves. This gives us a pretty decent chance of the match ending with several 2-way draws and the traitors have no way of breaking this. Works better if you are in a larger group. For possibility A, you need some additional precautions. Ensure 2 things: only one person goes to vote at a time with everyone else standing outside the room AND everyone always votes is the same but different room. (so if Dog votes in the male toilet, he always votes in the male toilet). This ensures no communication can take place between traitors, by hidden message or otherwise. If someone tries to stall, simple assume they are the traitor and execute them. It does not appear there is any surefire way to prevent deaths, but at least you can eliminate the traitor's interference.
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Jan 6, 2023 18:18
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 [BGM: Mousetrap]  I heard Pig nervously pacing in circles. Pig, are you alright? Oh, me? Just fine, super fine, only having a mental breakdown over here, nothing to worry about. Seriously, what the HELL was that about?!  For the record, Tiger wasn't my designated vote. Dog? Wasn't mine. Are you saying that both traitors voted her independently? How likely is that? Very much not so. In all likelihood, this means the two have somehow managed to contact each other. If they can vote together, this plan is essentially dead in the water. No... This is all my fault! That's not true! It was a good plan. Just not good enough.[BGM: A Bite That Persists]   So what are we to do now? We've spent all this time talking about what we must do, but on both occasions we've utterly failed to counter the traitors. Gotta say guys, this is a real D plus effort right now. Shut the hell up! God, you're so annoying, things are always better when you're silent. Rooster, you've contributed the least here, so you've little ground to stand on. Uh, my lack of speech is a contribution. Dragon herself just said that things are better when I'm silent. So you're welcome. … Rooster's right, we need a new plan. So, uh, the new plan is, um, right, no plan. Huh? Plans suck! Plans aren't useful at all! Plans are what killed Tiger and Ox. If we just sit around and say exactly what we're going to do, the traitors will be able to completely read our moves! And, all this time, we haven't found any Trinkets whatsoever! So now our plan is to not have a plan. Okay but what does that mean? I don't know. Vote no one. Vote someone random. Find a partner and both of you vote the same person. Be completely random, untrackable. Then maybe, I mean may be, we'll stumble into a tie vote. This sounds like a horrible idea. Nah, let's do this. Pig's right. This obsession with plans has completely killed our searches, and they've been seen through twice. Everyone, split up and don't be predictable!Dragon shouted this and immediately stormed off in a random direction. Pig followed suit, and before I knew it, the group was mostly split up. I was sort of with Snake. Just completely abandoning logic and leaving things to chance seemed like a really bad idea. But the die was already cast, as it were. It was best to accept things and look for Trinkets. I went into a nearby classroom and did the typical search. At this point, I was starting to feel like a professional school inspector. ...A school inspector who didnt end up with a lot of results. Even though I was able to search through it relatively quickly, no Trinkets were found in the room I looked in. [BGM: Silence]  I started to look for another room, but as I went down the hallway, I saw something suspicious. Snake was eagerly explaining something to Pig, who was nodding. A bit farther down the hallway, Horse was leading Sheep into the library. Hey, what are you guys doing?Both Snake and Pig looked startled when I called out to them, and Snake hurriedly brought Pig into the library. Wait, wait, wait, what the hell is this?! [BGM: Rabid Rabbit]  I rushed over to the library door and tried to open it, but Horse held the door closed. Looking in, I saw that Bunny, Horse, Pig, Sheep, and Snake were in the same room. What's going on here? Don't look at me like that! Ignore her. What on earth? Apologies, Mouse, but being weak-willed will lead to the worst possible results. To avoid that... drastic measures are needed.In an instant, I realized what was happening. They had decided that the only way to ensure they weren't voted to execution was to form their own majority and vote away everyone else. I cried out as loud as I could. EVERYBODY! GET OVER HERE! THIS GROUP IS TRYING TO KILL THE REST OF US!!Before long, Dragon, Monkey, Rooster, and Dog had ran over to my location. What the hell is this, you assholes?!Dragon yanked on the door handle, but Horse held steady. Get out here! Pig, you traitorous bitch, I thought you said not to make a plan! If I didn't join, they'd get someone else! You know you're going to have to come out sometime! You can't be in the same room when you use your tablet. The library actually has a small separate room inside. Hence why we chose it as a base. poo poo! drat. That was a total of two cycles before we went full Lord of the Flies. I was expecting one cycle, though, so I guess well done us. Dragon slammed on the door again.  Everyone, I would propose our first target should be Dragon. She stands a chance of breaking into our sanctuary. No she doesn't. Guys, quickly. Let's all vote Snake. Mouse? It's now us versus them. We don't have the luxury to be soft. We need to focus our votes all on him. Say no more! I am on it. It's distressing, but if we don't, we may die. Why not? Yeah, I'll show that rear end in a top hat!We had agreed to vote for Snake, so we split up and went to different rooms. After voting for Snake, I returned to outside the library. You better watch yourself Snake! Don't think we're going down without a fight![BGM: Silence]  Did everyone vote Snake? Of course we did! Why wouldn't we?Like clockwork, an announcement played on our tablets. The prayers of the group are conflicted, and so the great Draconic Gods will stay out of it. So, what, does that mean it was a tie? It must be. I guess this isn't too much of a surprise. All five of us voted for Snake, and the five of them voted for Dragon. Tch. They really tried to kill me, eh?Dragon started banging on the door again.  Try it, bastards, and see what happens!Horse held the door firm. My, how interesting. Unintentionally, we have stumbled across the solution we were searching for. What do you mean? By ensuring destruction upon a loss, we have put the traitors in a situation where they can't veer away from a tie. We are currently operating on the very real assumption that if either of our groups gains a 5 to 4 majority, the majority will systematically vote out the minority. With that in mind, no matter which side either traitor is on, not voting for who they said they would will result in their death.[BGM: Dance of the Snakes]  We have achieved an actually stable equilibrium. So... What you're saying is that everything's good now? To put it simply, yes. Once we became willing to murder innocents, our bargaining leverage greatly increased. I wonder... If this was the outcome Snake foresaw, then I must commend his foresight. Don't give that rear end in a top hat that much credit. He tried to save his own skin, and it just-so-happened to end up working out. So while they hold themselves up in there, we've gotta handle the legwork of finding trinkets? Hardly seems fair. But if it's what's needed of me, I guess I'll be off.Dog started to walk away, but before he left, he turned back to us. Vote Snake again. Will do!And like that, he was off. Watch, I'm gonna find a Trinket in no time flat! I'll also join the search. I'll look around here. Eh, I'm gonna stay guard outside here. I don't like the idea of these creeps going off to do whatever they want. Uh, I think that's unnecessary , but whatever you want.Just like that, we broke off again. I looked all around a nearby classroom. I was determined to find a Trinket. We just needed 4 more. 4 more. If I could find one, it'd be a huge help. Unfortunately, time passed, and hints evaded me. I realized the prayer cycle was coming to an end, so I took out my tablet and voted for Snake. For once, I felt confident in how this'd turn out. ...But just in case, I decided to check back in on Dragon and the other group.  Dog had the same idea as me. Hey Mouse. Any luck finding trinkets? I wish. Heh, loser. What, did you find one?Dog took a token out of his pocket and displayed it proudly. Right on! I guess I've got a nose for this sort of stuff. It's incredibly infuriating that you can find this stuff while seemingly not trying. Why, jealous? A little. Anyways, anything happen with those five, Dragon? Nah. Far as I can tell, these chumps are content holing themselves up like that and voting as a group. I doubt this cycle's result will be much different than last cycle's.As if spurred on by her words, our tablets had another announcement. [BGM: Fire Breath]  With a total of 7 prayers, the great Draconic Gods have heeded the group's wishes and strike down Snake. What?! The hell? That's... unexpected.I raced over to the library's door, and through the window, I saw a cursing Snake lashing out. Sure enough, he was dying. Despite keeping out Dragon before, the group inside the library rushed out in a panic. I guess they didn't want to stay with a dying man. Rooster and Monkey also ran back over here, confused by the announcement.  What the hell?! We had such a good thing going, why would anyone vote against Snake?? Seriously, who did it? Don't you understand all four of us are done for now?? Not me. M-me either! Well it had to be one of you fucks! But that doesn't make much sense. The traitors would know they were signing their own death warrant. 7 prayers? Why would the number be 7 prayers? Were both traitors inside that group? No, even that wouldn't explain it. If you were going to betray that group, you wouldn't actively vote against Snake, you'd just vote for someone other than the group. We should've heard '5 prayers'. But there were two extra. ...Two extra? Suddenly, it all clicked. We're morons. Agreed, but elaborate.Instead of answering, I ran back into the cafeteria. I checked Ox and Tiger's bodies.  Sure enough their tablets were missing. loving goddamn it. What's wrong, Mouse? The traitor stole the goddamn tablets.
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Jan 6, 2023 21:51
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Ohhh that's a very good twist.
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Jan 6, 2023 22:09
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Dog is absolutely responsible for this; he shouted who they should vote for so that either A) Bunny knows who to vote for or B) he has deniability, since if he's acting alone he needs the other team to know who they're all voting for so he has deniability. As for Tiger, the easiest answer there is that Dog lied about not drawing Tiger and communicated that to Bunny. It seems increasingly likely that in this route they're working together, though it's still not certain. This one would be wild to try and figure out if we didn't know who had the relevant personalities already though. ZCKaiser fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jan 6, 2023 |
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Jan 6, 2023 22:37
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Hmmm, Tiger was the one with the voice activated tablet, right? I wonder if that's going to play into this at all
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Jan 6, 2023 22:59
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Ok, so we did the alliance thing! Dog presumably has 3 votes now. Team library can only get to 5 with Snake's. Not good. It's hard to call this Bunny's route since he's been pretty passive and is on the losing side. Maybe it's Dragon's route? The nice thing about this one is that more jurors are participating than usual, so it's not very obvious. With all this tablet swiping, why hasn't someone been caught stashing or concealing spare tablets?
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Jan 6, 2023 23:46
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NeoRonTheNeuron posted:Ok, so we did the alliance thing! Dog presumably has 3 votes now. Team library can only get to 5 with Snake's. Not good. It's hard to say bunny is on the losing side with the extra votes thrown in. If he could have kept the two factions he had the ability to whittle them both down by alternating which side he killed each round, until he outright had the power to outvote the survivors.
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Jan 7, 2023 00:27
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Mix. posted:
Would just like to single out this exchange as Very Good.
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Jan 7, 2023 02:22
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Podima posted:Ohhh that's a very good twist. Agreed. I was pretty down on this game from Dog's route, but this route is largely redeeming it in my eyes. ...which means I might end up buying it. Like I did with Head As/Birth Me Code...and I'm considering for Will: A Wonderful World. (Mix, you gotta stop LPing cool VNs, I'm just gonna keep buying them  )
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Jan 7, 2023 11:32
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