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It totally isn't though. I'm bronze 5 ( ) and I main him, and let me tell you, if the enemy Ana is even half awake, or if orisa knows how to use more than 1 cool down at a time, or even if the enemy team is even kind of put together (all by bronze standards of course) he can be easily dealt with. In bronze. I will probably get 1 or 2 of your supports/DPS, but if the rest just avoid me in different directions, I have to stay on one person to keep the ult up, because I can't guarantee my support will keep me alive. But if the enemy team panics and all back away in the same general direction, I'll kill everyone. (I've even wiped the enemy team in just regular Big mode, but again, bronze so...) Ram is super dependent upon support healing to be really effective. I've dove in by myself and got shut down immediately by Kiriko headshots and a casual Ana vial.
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Jan 1, 2023 17:26
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Also a B5 support, and if you can shove a Kiriko up Rammtra's rear end he becomes an unstoppable tyrant down here. Suzu counters his major weaknesses, Fox makes him terrifyingly fast, and her healing output is enough to keep him up in either form as long as he's stingy with his shield to protect himself in caster form. Unfortunately, finding a reasonably competent Kiriko AND Ram in the same match has been extremely rare so far.
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Jan 1, 2023 19:31
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Yeah the whole "just cc him" falls flat when there's a character who can wake him up on cd.
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Jan 1, 2023 19:43
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dogstile posted:Yeah the whole "just cc him" falls flat when there's a character who can wake him up on cd. I'd say that's true of most tanks. He's a poke/brawler and most people don't really play to his strengths. Just last night I had one ult from that window that's above the first checkpoint on junkertown and I was playing junkrat. As he jumped down out of the window, I hit him with the claymore and just bounced him up in the air twice while the rest of my team just shot him to death. Never touched the ground alive. Again I'm playing in bronze 5 so I'm sure he's a lot easier to deal with down here, but I've definitely been taken out due to lack of support, or someone simply being better than me, which is most players. Also his block only works from the front, so if you can see my butt, you can definitely shove a ton of things up there to shut me down  But he definitely can go the gently caress off in any mode regardless of ult if your team plays around him. He builds ult so fast from his Lclick I can usually get 3-4 in a match.
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Jan 1, 2023 23:09
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SadisTech posted:fuuuuuuck they have to nerf ramattra's ult somehow. Like give him a boost on something else in his kit, by all means. The ult is dumb as gently caress, it's a guaranteed team fight win. If you say "no it isn't" that tells me a lot about the teams that you're up against. if u are supp go zen and keep him perma discorded its nuts how much that wrecks him
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Jan 1, 2023 23:47
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Ramattra is tied for I think the 3rd lowest ult charge requirement in the game, not counting baby D.va. I wouldn't cry at that cost going up significantly, or a reduction in its radius or capping its duration after a certain point, like 15 seconds. That said, Ram also has like zero peel and if you're aggressive with his backline there's not a lot he can do in either form. I'd like to see his E get buffed a bit either with a reduced cooldown or taller column of effect. Things that work great against Ram in general: Stuns/CC (Sleep, Javelin, Hook, etc - also turns off block and the Ram player may fumble around after the CC wears off) Antiheal Discord Aggressive play (Dive tank, flankers) Mei Wall, Ult (Wall can cut him off from his healers, no mobility so can't escape that nor Mei ult) Sure, Kiriko can cleanse but Suzu has something like a 14 second cooldown while Ana's nades have an 8 second cooldown. Even if one Antiheal gets cleansed you have time to purple Ram again or otherwise hit with another big effect or CC ult.
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Jan 2, 2023 01:53
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Ramattras E should become a 30 degree cone that sucks fliers into its ground center. I have never seen a flier sucked down by the current anemic 'anti-flier' field.
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Jan 2, 2023 03:08
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The slow seems to be its primary function, and it's pretty good for that.
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Jan 2, 2023 03:29
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Cpt_Obvious posted:The slow seems to be its primary function, and it's pretty good for that. That's what it ended up being, but it was hyped as an anti-flyer field. Turns out that 3d triangulating a small circle under a flying target is pretty hard to do. Other way it could work is, if it targeted a hero instead of ground. With some added auto-aim tracking like kiriko's heals, so you can actually hit the fliers.
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Jan 2, 2023 04:11
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Issaries posted:Ramattras E should become a 30 degree cone that sucks fliers into its ground center. I don't use it to try to bring flyers down to the ground I use it to prevent them from flying. Or I just throw it anyways just to slow people down from running away from me.
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Jan 2, 2023 04:28
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Yeah it's okay at keeping enemies from running away but that's about it. For it being a skillshot with a slow arcing projectile, long windup, and on a fairly long cooldown, there isn't much nuance or fun ways to express skill using it.
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Jan 2, 2023 05:17
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For sure. I can't figure out why they made it bounce either. I'd much rather it was sticky or something. It would be pretty fun to have it stick to enemies but still keep the aoe slow antifly/jump. That would make mercy's fly ability a detriment to use on that player, and curb the pharmercy combo a bit. I'm pretty optimistic about the new heroes. Most of the heroes are fun to play in one way or another. It'll be neat to see what they come up with. On another note, I'm playing like total garbage tonight.  I'm not good anyways, but I'm playing way worse for some reason. Not sure how to get out of it. I'm taking brakes every couple of matches hoping that works.
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Jan 2, 2023 05:39
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I went 0-7 today and decided to hang it up after my dailies were done. It's rough in the salt mines during the holidays.
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Jan 2, 2023 06:34
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I've been practising a bit of Widow in quick play and I'm noticing that people hate Widow so, so much that it almost doesn't matter if you're getting mad elims... as long as you stay alive and harrass them and plink a couple of heads they will focus on you to the exclusion of everything else and your team gets a free ride. I'm sure it will be different in real games but it's definitely a thing.
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Jan 3, 2023 09:21
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 Christ...
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Jan 3, 2023 09:40
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SadisTech posted:I've been practising a bit of Widow in quick play and I'm noticing that people hate Widow so, so much that it almost doesn't matter if you're getting mad elims... as long as you stay alive and harrass them and plink a couple of heads they will focus on you to the exclusion of everything else and your team gets a free ride. I'm sure it will be different in real games but it's definitely a thing. Widow can carry at all levels, and her ult is amazing if people use it. OK now that that is out of the way , I hate having a widow on my team. She just isn't where you need her to be. She has no capability to control an objective, even through area denial it is easy to LOS her and still control an objective. If she doesn't get the first kill and early, she is a usually detriment. She has no utility outside of her ult, which is hard to use once combat is engaged. If she needs heals, she taking a lot of potential away from her supports by putting them out of position or looking the wrong direction. If the widow on my team is getting 2 early kills before dying, I'm happy. If they get one kill per fight, and it's not the opening kill, then they would be better off playing any other character. The only other exception I'll mention is if they are able to change the enemy behavior and force them to make bad decisions, that is a positive. If a widow one trick is not climbing and playing at their rank, there is a good chance that it feels bad for everyone except the widow. Part of the reason for this is map related. They might have a 70% win rate on some maps and a 30% win rate on other maps. headcase fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Jan 3, 2023 |
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Jan 3, 2023 16:48
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I'm starting to think that playing Moira in lower ranks is a terrible idea. Yes, she does have the highest healing output but it's not worth keeping most of these idiots alive. It seems like you get better results by denying the other team plays instead with Kiriko or Ana.
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Jan 3, 2023 17:50
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Jack Trades posted:I'm starting to think that playing Moira in lower ranks is a terrible idea. Pretty sure DPS Moira is the only highly effective way to play her. It's just not nearly as effective as a decent Kiriko, or Lucio, or Ana, or Mercy in most cases. It's no accident that the very very few Moira OTPs you do see in the top 500 are heavily DPS oriented. Most famously Nolan back in OW1 did a Bronze to GM stream series titled "No Left Click" where the only healing he did was orbs to heal himself. Moira's only outstanding characteristic is her ability to exist for ages in a back line and constantly harass support and DPS back there. Otherwise you're just a dumb heal bot that relies on 4 other people to actually do something. Meanwhile any other support can do that but also do something else at the same time, from more traditional support positions etc. The problem is its very easy to gently caress up the backline DPS Moira gameplay and just be really bad period, and the eventual top level is still worse than Kiriko and Lucio and Mercy so almost nobody bothers to get good enough to actually do it. ML7 has a pretty recent vid up where he had a pretty much strictly DPS Moira on his team in a top 500 match (and also doing it clearly as a bit of a meme since he called out that he was a TikTok Moira in voice chat at the start of the match), and at first he's skeptical but after the Moira kills 2 supports and then takes out Kraggie (I believe still the #1 ranked DPS on EU), he shifts to just cover the support duties vacated by the DPS Moira and they stomp pretty hard on the enemy. He breaks down the things that the backline DPS Moira does do for your team by analyzing the replay afterward. Again, it's not the best support at all, and the process of learning to do it well will probably involve hours of just being a terrible detriment to your win rate and teams, but, I think truly if you want to climb and succeed in Moira you have to at least focus more on DPS than healing as often as is possible.
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Jan 3, 2023 17:59
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Moira is a character that particularly rewards good game sense. if you know what you're doing, you can finish off targets your DPS and tank have been working on and be back to dump healing on teammates that need it. or if you're bad at it, you die in their backline and have everyone get mad at you
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Jan 3, 2023 19:16
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Moira works really well on a lot of the maps that have tight corridors or a slow moving cart or robot, because she can flick her healing ball at the point and keep it bouncing around herself/any team that is actually contesting the point (....oof). At that point, she can focus mainly on damage, just based around the idea that she is also healing. The key to Widow, I have decided, is playing slightly better than normal, but not tooooo much so. If I aim poorly, I lose. If I can't miss, I will also suffer. There's a sweet spot of being a nuisance and hitting supports and maybe a DPS here or there, where the other team won't switch their entire comp to spite gently caress you, but will still be slowly pushed over. For someone wanting to actually climb, the key is also switching after a while. Even if you are red hot, you basically have to assume your team is too incompetent to follow up and hold points. That's the real killer. Your teammates are cowards and never want to fight on/near the point. Widow is only truly useful on offense because if you clear the point, you can push it, but you can't defend it without it pushing. You have to keep this fact in mind. It should inform how every character plays. If you can't fight in the guts of the entire enemy team, you're not suited for that character on defense. You will do nothing but give ground.
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Jan 3, 2023 20:12
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Trailer for the next event, "Battle For Olympus" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbI57nJsAkU Starts on the 5th.
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Jan 3, 2023 23:40
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They put Greek theming around 1 abusive dad vs.11 angry kids?
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Jan 4, 2023 00:44
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Look, he did the best he could considering his father literally tried to murder him and his brothers.
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Jan 4, 2023 00:57
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SadisTech posted:I've been practising a bit of Widow in quick play and I'm noticing that people hate Widow so, so much that it almost doesn't matter if you're getting mad elims... as long as you stay alive and harrass them and plink a couple of heads they will focus on you to the exclusion of everything else and your team gets a free ride. I'm sure it will be different in real games but it's definitely a thing. They're afraid you're going to pop off and dominate so they try to kill/harass you. People who play her either control the board, or they don't. There isn't a mid tier widow. She either needs to be dealt with immediately, or basically ignored or poked for funsies. I love trying to outsnipe widow on every character I can. Kiriko says "Gee, I thought you were the sniper?" If you dome her from a certain distance. headcase posted:Widow can carry at all levels, and her ult is amazing if people use it. OK now that that is out of the way , I hate having a widow on my team. I feel the exact same way about her. Though it is nice having her in the way back so I always have a Kiriko tp point I don't have to worry about. I've tpd into too many ults/bad situations accidentally. Moira chat: I really think she's viable anyway you play her, but I would think that she's a DPS first heal second type of support character, whereas somebody like kiriko would be heal first DPS second. The biggest problem is a lot of the people that play this game that haven't played OverWatch 1 (and maybe even some that have), will have very hard opinions on how the game should be played, and what brings value and what doesn't. If you don't agree with these things, then you're flat out wrong. This thread seems to be on the same page for the most part, but literally anywhere else is people just screaming at each other about this or that with the kind of confidence that implies they are privy to some definitive proof. The general consensus pretty much everywhere, is that the only thing you need to do to rank is win consecutively, and have a high kdr. DPS just needs a high kdr, support needs a high healing number, and tanks need a high mitigation number. If somebody's playing Pharah, someone should absolutely be pocketing with Mercy. No matter what the other team makeup is everyone is expected to switch off to hard counters or else anything else you're doing is literally throwing. Doesn't matter how new you are to the game, it doesn't matter how good you are with whatever character, if you're not doing what the YouTubers are telling you, then you're basically throwing and should uninstall the game and probably kill yourself. The general heresay hive mind of OverWatch players is absolutely astounding. So if you do something like play your Moira as a DPS, then you're basically throwing the game and they're going to report you. If you're not hard countering with whatever they deem the perfect hard counter for whatever character is, you're throwing. If you're not playing optimally on your character you're throwing. It's like they don't even understand what the term means yet it's getting thrown around with such vitriol that it makes even reading about the game elsewhere exhausting.
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Jan 4, 2023 02:05
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it's like that in every team based game since people hate losing, they dont want to feel responsible for losing, so absolutely meaningless stats and backseating are a great proxy to find blame. there is not so much obsessive focus on in-game stats in 1v1 games like chess or fighting games b/c the shortcomings are painfully obvious and you can't find a teammate to blame.
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Jan 4, 2023 02:24
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you could probably stick the best professional widow player in the entire world into a ladder game anonymously with a viable team comp and map and you will have at least one of the teammates still blame the widow if they lose
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Jan 4, 2023 02:29
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comedyblissoption posted:you could probably stick the best professional widow player in the entire world into a ladder game anonymously with a viable team comp and map and you will have at least one of the teammates still blame the widow if they lose Ever seen TheRealKenzo on Youtube? He has like an 85% Widow win rate and hits an absolutely world class % of shots, and he routinely has people shouting "WIDOW SWAP NOW UR THORWING"
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Jan 4, 2023 02:41
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Had an Ilios quick play match where I went 29-3 on Widow and we lost 2-0 because the rest of my team had less than 10 elims between them, including our tank who sat on Dva the whole match. The enemy team also had very low elims except their tank, who was Orisa. The 2nd round I got a 4K as my team pushed the point for the last fight on ruins and then my team all died 4v1 to their symmetra. So yeah, not having a point presence as Widow can be problematic.
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Jan 4, 2023 02:42
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It's true the only thing I hate more then a widow on my team is a tank, is back in OW1 was being like Rein and having a ball as my secondary, then getting my rear end beat 2v1 while he's rolling around the middle of nowhere doing god knows what.
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Jan 4, 2023 02:44
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Just had the weirdest glitch, the drat doors didn't open :| thought it locked me in but I could get out of a tiny sliver at the top. Anyone experience that?
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Jan 4, 2023 02:49
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Widow is innocent until proven guilty. After we lose 2 team fights, it's possible we need more spam pressure or flank. Maybe we do need to compensate for a bad tank, but that still something that the widow one trick could help with by switching. Maybe the team's just trying to brawl it out. Come with us and don't distract the Moira or lucio.
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Jan 4, 2023 02:58
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I just won a game of ilios ruins where I convinced my entire team to stop peeking widow when we had control of the point and instead just sit in cover. Every time they got close to peeking i said "no, you have ult, no peeking. Stop it. Stop doing that." but in a fairly funsie voice. They stopped doing it. From 40% to 100%, then we just dumped 5 ults on point when the enemy team finally realised they should probably push. This is still in masters. Lmao.
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Jan 4, 2023 02:58
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Did anyone do the winter event challenges? I'm curious to know how many did them. I didn't bother. I didn't find any of those modes fun.
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Jan 4, 2023 02:59
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Jimbot posted:Did anyone do the winter event challenges? I'm curious to know how many did them. I did just enough of them to get the skin but didn't bother with the really crap ones for the ornament sprays. Luckily most of the modes had people not actually wanting to play so you'd load in 2/3 of the time and it'd be "want to farm challenges?" "yeah cool"
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Jan 4, 2023 03:02
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The Mei snowball fight one is a blast but it's my first year with it and I could see it getting old I guess.
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Jan 4, 2023 03:07
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Thanks for telling me those exist. I just did 4 of them since you posted.
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Jan 4, 2023 03:34
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a common theme of my games tonight: 1. The enemy comes in with a team-wiping ult like blossom or shatter 2. I cancel the ult through rock or javelin or the like 3. As a result, we somehow lose harder than I'd imagine we would if I hadn't cancelled the ult at all
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Jan 4, 2023 03:41
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Pattonesque posted:a common theme of my games tonight: those are some great times
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Jan 4, 2023 03:49
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verbal enema posted:those are some great times I'll never forget a game I had where I timed a nanoed Rein's shatter *perfectly* and slept it before it landed and then all my teammates just immediately died anyway
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Jan 4, 2023 04:22
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Trailer for the next event, "Battle For Olympus" Looks very lazy. It's just deathmatch with different abilities? I thought it was gonna be some PvE event thing, lol.
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Jan 4, 2023 05:02
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