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It's still vague, but that's still cool.
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Jan 4, 2023 04:52
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I’m a little surprised that proning is happening, that's not typical in cardiac arrests but who knows, he could’ve had a severe aspiration episode and now he’s got ARDS.
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Jan 4, 2023 04:56
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Why do they have to wait to do neurological testing? Can't they measure his brain activity now?
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Jan 4, 2023 05:03
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IANAD but maybe the drugs they have them in to keep him sedated would interfere in some way? Or maybe they are doing testing and it's inconclusive or the family doesn't want any info passed on at this point?
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Jan 4, 2023 05:09
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I don't want to make this about me or anyone other than Hamlin, but I'm getting flashbacks to the pandemic. At one point I had multiple family members and friends in hospitals, fighting for their life. They all survived (some with lung damage) but its the waiting that can be so brutal for loved ones. We're waiting for a binary update when the truth is that the body is still so complex that modern medicine can only tell us so much.
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Jan 4, 2023 05:10
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Come on
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Jan 4, 2023 05:13
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Narcissus1916 posted:I don't want to make this about me or anyone other than Hamlin, but I'm getting flashbacks to the pandemic. At one point I had multiple family members and friends in hospitals, fighting for their life. They all survived (some with lung damage) but its the waiting that can be so brutal for loved ones. We're waiting for a binary update when the truth is that the body is still so complex that modern medicine can only tell us so much. Waiting is hell. My dad battled esophageal cancer for 5+ years. He had numerous surgeries for metastisized tumors, complications, etc. He spent 2 1/2 months in the hospital recovering from sepsis. He had dozens of emergency trips to the hospital. We often had to wait for news, and it was hell. I sympathize with the family. Time has to be crawling by right now.
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Jan 4, 2023 05:14
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:At the risk of not being cynical enough I refuse to imagine that the Pagula's wouldn't cover whatever the hell medical and care of life bills he has going forward indefinitely. Yeah even in the hellscape that is American healthcare I have to imagine he gets basically a blank check for a long time if not life on all expenses from some combination of the Bills and the NFL. Hanging him out to dry would be thermonuclear PR. Although it's not like the NFL is a stranger to such things. Docjowles fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Jan 4, 2023 |
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Jan 4, 2023 05:27
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:I guess it was because of all the insane crashes we've seen where someone walked away, and a seemingly minor wreck was deadly. I still don't understand what Star Trek engineering prevented Grosjean from being literally vaporized
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Jan 4, 2023 05:32
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I mean the team / league will cover him for a long while. But there's a whole lot of former players who have had massive struggles post retirement with health issues that you think the league would be taking better care of but aren't.
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Jan 4, 2023 05:34
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Docjowles posted:Yeah even in the hellscape that is American healthcare I have to imagine he gets basically a blank check for life on all expenses from some combination of the Bills and the NFL. Hanging him out to dry would be thermonuclear PR. Although it's not like the NFL is a stranger to such things. More to the point, Hamlin has future MVP-guaranteed friends all over the NFL. The class of '21 is going to be remembered as making waves. If Hamlin isn't covered for life, sight unseen, for anything and everything concerning this incident for the rest of his life, those guys are going to dynamite the whole league. Like down to the foundations. Down to the level of encouraging college-level kids to get out of programs. If the NFL fucks this up it will likely deal crippling damage to the sport for at least a full generation. The NFL rarely misses a chance to gently caress things up in order to make a buck now, but I suspect even the owners realize this has to be handled delicately or real damage is going to be done to The Brand. Kalli posted:I mean the team / league will cover him for a long while. But there's a whole lot of former players who have had massive struggles post retirement with health issues that you think the league would be taking better care of but aren't. Those guys didn't appear to Literally Fall Over Dead on ESPN while Joe Buck lost his mind over the tragedy of it. It's harsh, but the way Hamlin went down will matter a lot in this case.
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Jan 4, 2023 05:36
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Yeah regarding the issue of the percent oxygen he's breathing, to summarize (and some have already posted some of the relevant info): -The normal air that you breathe is 21 percent oxygen, the rest mostly nitrogen, otherwise known as "room air" (room air = 21% O2) -During a resuscitation/code scenario the patient usually receives 100% oxygen because the goal at that time is to maximize the amount of oxygen delivered -If someone has to be on a ventilator for a longer time, like days, after the immediate resuscitation then one of the earliest goals is to decrease the percentage of oxygen they are receiving to the lowest percentage compatible with good oxygen delivery, preferably down to 50 percent or less. The reason for this is that at higher concentrations the oxygen itself can be toxic to the lungs and cause some scarring and long term damage. So the goal is to support adequate oxygen delivery with the lowest percentage of oxygen compatible with that goal. If the person's lungs are real bad and they have to be at a high concentration or even 100% oxygen in order for them to get an adequate amount of oxygen into their blood, then so be it, it has to be done. But it's normal to dial down the oxygen concentration as quickly and as much as can be tolerated. -It's probably a reasonable conjecture that his lungs were in excellent condition right up to the cardiac arrest (even if he had, say, a little damage from a bout of covid), anything else would probably not be compatible with him being a starting DB on an NFL team. The things that could have happened in the setting of a cardiac arrest and resuscitation: 1. Aspiration. He's not fasted like a person scheduled for a planned surgery and anesthesia so any stomach contents he had could have been inhaled, when you are in a coma such as in a cardiac arrest (no brain function) the normal reflexes that help you cough that stuff away from your lungs aren't functional. The acidity of stomach contents can cause a little or a lot of damage to the lungs or even be lethal. 2. Trauma from CPR such as broken ribs causing lung punctures 3. Physical damage from being on a ventilator. Normally you suck air in. When it's being pumped in as from a ventilator or someone doing resuscitation if the pressures are high it can cause damage or even blow out parts of the lung (pneumothorax). This usually only happens if someone's lungs are so bad that they have to be ventilated at high pressures in order to get enough oxygen delivered. 4. Damage caused by high oxygen concentration as mentioned above. Having said all that I suspect lung issues are most likely to be manageable and probably not the biggest threat to his survival or quality of life (unless he had a massive aspiration of stomach contents). Usually in a situation like this, the biggest issue by far is whatever brain injury he may or may not have suffered while he had no pulse or was limited to what circulation CPR provides (usually you only pump about 25-30 percent as much blood with chest compressions as normal heart beating provides, but it's still vital and saves lives and is much better than zero percent). People who are not as young and in worse shape sometimes do very well after similar code scenarios so there is some reason for optimism. Since we are limited to whatever information the family chooses to release it's difficult to read the tea leaves from what little we've been told and get an accurate picture of what's happening.
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Jan 4, 2023 05:38
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I want to believe in the hope that the uncle is sharing but I also understand that literally anything that they hear can and will be interpreted in the most positive way possible and I think that, as much as we want to believe, it's also probably mentally healthy to not allow ourselves to emotionally swing with whatever bits and pieces we get without getting a clearer picture from medical professionals. C'mon Damar! 
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Jan 4, 2023 05:48
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Top story on Yahoo Sports tonight is about the GFM. It's pushing toward $6m: https://sports.yahoo.com/bills-damar-hamlin-wanted-to-help-his-community-now-nfl-fans-are-doing-it-in-his-honor-070416950.htmlquote:Just over two years later, Hamlin’s GoFundMe page became a way for NFL fans to express support for him after he collapsed during the first quarter of a Monday Night Football game between the Bills and the Cincinnati Bengals. The GoFundMe’s initial goal was to raise $2,500. At 9:30 ET on Monday night, fans had donated about $30,000. Only four hours later, that tally had reached a staggering $3 million. By early evening on Tuesday the total had grown to over $5 million, with donations continuing to roll in.
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Jan 4, 2023 05:58
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FizFashizzle posted:The breathing being 50% doesn't necessarily mean anything and I wouldn't take it as a good thing or bad. That's coming from a family member who is in an incredibly stressful situation learning about things are are incredibly complex and relaying something he might not have understood. I'm not saying he's too stupid to understand it or anything, it's just not useful right now. Plus the people reporting on it don't understand it either.  "It took her idiot non-doctor son who works with cardiac-related medical equipment (me) to explain that it was actually potentially a good thing. I mean, I guess you could just give less info and resort to a thumbs up/down system.
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Jan 4, 2023 06:03
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Kalli posted:I mean the team / league will cover him for a long while. But there's a whole lot of former players who have had massive struggles post retirement with health issues that you think the league would be taking better care of but aren't. Yeah I hear this but feel like Damar is a special case. This is the biggest story in sports right now and the country is watching. If/when he recovers they can't just say "lol get hosed rookie idiot". They will be buried alive. They also should be doing more for all those random O linemen and linebackers with brain disease or chronic pain that leads to chronic opioid abuse or whatever, but that's a separate topic.
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Jan 4, 2023 06:16
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Sash! posted:What's odd to me is that Dale didn't affect me at all.
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Jan 4, 2023 06:24
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Kalli posted:I mean the team / league will cover him for a long while. But there's a whole lot of former players who have had massive struggles post retirement with health issues that you think the league would be taking better care of but aren't. Veterans getting the shaft on healthcare as they age is a universal truth in America.
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Jan 4, 2023 06:45
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I don't think any non-Snyder owner would gently caress him over in the short term, but who knows in a couple of years.
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Jan 4, 2023 07:03
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The GoFundMe is about $65K shy of $6M. Almost 200,000 people have donated. This is amazing.
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Jan 4, 2023 07:17
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Proteus Jones posted:The GoFundMe is about $65K shy of $6M. Almost 200,000 people have donated. It's crazy to think that it has almost 10x'd just from the time that some of us found it...after it had already 300x'd.
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Jan 4, 2023 07:23
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Vando posted:If it's that, I would honestly expect them to continue as normal unless they are able to identify anything specific regarding equipment or expertise that should have been in place that wasn't. With Phil Hughes, the ultimate conclusion was that sometimes poo poo just happens even if you're doing something hundreds of people do all the time without it happening before, and there's nothing more you can reasonably do. Even the new helmet neck guards they mandated afterwards would likely not have helped him, by all accounts. This post really confused me until I figured out you meant Chuck Hughes and not the Yankees pitcher.
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Jan 4, 2023 08:19
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YOLOsubmarine posted:I’d rather be ignored than have the doctor actively harm me based on woo woo bullshit. In my experience 80% of chiropractors are woo idiots or just want you to come in twice a week for an adjustment indefinitely. These are the guys that will paralyze you by loving up a neck adjustment. The other 20% know how your bones are supposed to fit together, and why your muscles are in extreme pain when they don't. They mix massage therapy, physical therapy, radiology, and other specialists to figure out why you're in pain and fix it. If the NFL hired the 1 in 5, the players are in good hands. If not, and this is far, far more likely, it's wasted effort at best.
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Jan 4, 2023 08:33
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atomicdream posted:I just checked the GFM, and not only is it over $5M, but someone (Jason Hanold) donated $20,000. I don't follow football nearly enough to know if that's another player, coach, whatever - but I am just floored by it and how much the community has donated in general. Chris Jericho donated $5000, realized he typoed his name (“Chrus Jericho”) and donated another $5000 under the correct name. I donated $50 and bought a jersey after I saw they’re donating proceeds to the charity because it’s the closest thing to feeling like I can do something for him.
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Jan 4, 2023 08:43
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mllaneza posted:In my experience 80% of chiropractors are woo idiots or just want you to come in twice a week for an adjustment indefinitely. These are the guys that will paralyze you by loving up a neck adjustment. The other 20% know how your bones are supposed to fit together, and why your muscles are in extreme pain when they don't. They mix massage therapy, physical therapy, radiology, and other specialists to figure out why you're in pain and fix it. I was always skeptical of the profession as well, having had the former. Then I had an ex who got in a ski accident, could barely walk, the doctor's answers were painkillers and back surgery, and she met a chiro thru a friend of a friend that was the latter. Now she walks pain free and doesn't have to go in anymore either for "maintenance" or whatever other term they use to try and get you in all the time.
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Jan 4, 2023 09:40
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There are actual back specialists and physiotherapists who will do all the stuff a non-quack chiropractor does. Athletes are definitely not immune to woo bullshit - remember when every golfer was wearing a magnetic bracelet to align their blood flow?
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Jan 4, 2023 09:47
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Luigi Thirty posted:This post really confused me until I figured out you meant Chuck Hughes and not the Yankees pitcher. Phil Hughes not Chuck Hughes
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Jan 4, 2023 10:00
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Chamale posted:There are actual back specialists and physiotherapists who will do all the stuff a non-quack chiropractor does. Athletes are definitely not immune to woo bullshit - remember when every golfer was wearing a magnetic bracelet to align their blood flow? poo poo remember when all the swimmers at the Olympics were using cupping "therapy"?
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Jan 4, 2023 10:32
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What is it with being called Hughes and dying on the field
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Jan 4, 2023 11:04
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I hate this a lot. Right before this all happened I was boundlessly upset about the Vikings getting bitchslapped by the Packers, a whole welter of bad feelings, angry, frustrated, sad. Getting made fun of by Packers fans. Already not able to do anything about that. Then this happened, and it doesn't make all those feelings GO AWAY, but instead it just also makes me feel like that poo poo is pointless and small while not actually stopping the feelings I had before. Double-decker sadness, great! Also have a nice big dose of mortality anxiety for myself and also my loved ones. I hate all this poo poo that makes me feel powerless.
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Jan 4, 2023 11:36
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:Why do they have to wait to do neurological testing? Can't they measure his brain activity now? Diminished/no reflexes under anesthesia And you’re not gonna decrease his o2 to see what his respiration drive is like, especially if they’re already hyper oxygenating and proning him.
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Jan 4, 2023 11:59
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Redeye Flight posted:Also have a nice big dose of mortality anxiety for myself and also my loved ones. I hate all this poo poo that makes me feel powerless. I definitely feel this. I don’t want to tell you what to do or think of course but if it’s any help, consider the things you can control. Lean into them, don’t suffer in your imagination if there are productive ways to spend your time in the present making the life and health of you and your loved ones better. It helps me quite a bit when I feel like everything could fall apart at any moment. Easier said than done no doubt, but I think it’s worth the effort.
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Jan 4, 2023 11:59
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MJeff posted:Skip was inserting himself into the subject and saying something to provoke a response while also giving himself plausible deniability that he wasn't actually being callous. It wasn't poorly worded, he didn't fail to read the room, he did exactly what he set out to do and got exactly what he wanted: taking something and making it about Skip Bayless.
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Jan 4, 2023 12:08
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FizFashizzle posted:Diminished/no reflexes under anesthesia ? When we proned people we’d often decrease the fio2 delivered to see how well their p/f ratio would hold. The p/f ratio being our guiding principle for ARDs. But yeah can’t do neuro testing because generally a patient in ARDs will be paralyzed to ensure max compliance with the ventilator. Some doctors choose not to use paralytics so you just use the same large doses of sedatives. Until their lungs look better you generally won’t reduce the sedation. Had he NOT gotten a lung injury you’d nearly always be dropping the sedation now to see how the respond. Best response is always following commands or making eye contact. If that doesn’t happen you’re looking for things like responds to voice or painful stim or breathing above the ventilator. A lot of that is dependent on ventilator’s setting.
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Jan 4, 2023 12:55
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Weebly posted:? This is (potentially) ards on top of everything else, including possible neuro injury. They won’t be doing anything for a while.
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Jan 4, 2023 13:02
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Zwabu posted:Yeah regarding the issue of the percent oxygen he's breathing, to summarize (and some have already posted some of the relevant info): Just an aside to oxygen chat, oxygen is a terrible thing for us to need to survive, it's an incredibly corrosive element that we evolved to breathe. Like rust/oxidization is all from oxygen. Inhaling pure oxygen long-term isn't great for bodies.
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Jan 4, 2023 15:09
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Wonder what the reaction would have been had this happened in practice and not on MNF.
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Jan 4, 2023 15:19
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Wonder what the reaction would have been had this happened in practice and not on MNF. It would have been quietly reported in sports media and we'd all have forgotten it by the next week.
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Jan 4, 2023 15:21
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How much did the media talk about Korey Stringer?
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Jan 4, 2023 15:25
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Quite a bit, but the situation was different though because the coaching staff caused his death. It wasn't an unpreventable freak medical occurrence.
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Jan 4, 2023 15:28
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