Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
It's more of a bad sign for the senior developers who will now be tasked by management to watch the juniors even more closely during their probationary periods

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

oliveoil posted:

Funnily enough, I no longer have to:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abq1158

The top 50% of competitive coders are probably way better at passing coding interviews than than the top 50% of successful candidates.

AI can now code at a level close to good enough to get a junior job. No telling how close that is to being able to actually do a junior job but it ain't a good sign for juniors.
All low-level jobs can be automated. The problem comes when you start to layer these outsourced accountabilities, and you build multiple levels of indirection that obfuscate the path to recourse or remedy for a mistake. When you lose the ability to correct the issues introduced by the AI, you have effectively put your entire business process in the hands of a vendor, or possibly even an open-source model/project. Any trivial change that you need to make has to be made on their schedule, and in alignment with their product and growth strategy. And they're probably using the same AI tech to help determine what exactly that is.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Passing a coding interview is pretty different from doing the job, even at a junior level.

Blinkz0rz
May 27, 2001

MY CONTEMPT FOR MY OWN EMPLOYEES IS ONLY MATCHED BY MY LOVE FOR TOM BRADY'S SWEATY MAGA BALLS

oliveoil posted:

Funnily enough, I no longer have to:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abq1158

The top 50% of competitive coders are probably way better at passing coding interviews than than the top 50% of successful candidates.

AI can now code at a level close to good enough to get a junior job. No telling how close that is to being able to actually do a junior job but it ain't a good sign for juniors.

You seem to have this weird focus on the trappings of software engineering without any idea of how building software actually works.

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem
Gee, I wonder what part of "being good at coding competitions" makes one good at passing interviews.

Is it the intuitive understanding of code needed to quickly translate a problem into correct code? Is it the ability to remain focused under time pressure? Is it the fact that they've repeatedly practiced solving this form of problem quickly?

No, it must be the code artifact they produced that makes them so good. Anyone able to produce a similar code artifact quickly, even if it's just by copying a Discord message someone else sent them, will also be just as successful in passing an interview. For a clown job, at the circus.

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
Looking for advice on a career transition into a data analyst / business intelligence position. Not sure where to start and looking for resources on what's required - I know on a technical level these jobs rely heavily on SQL and (maybe?) some knowledge of scripting languages (python). Any advice appreciated!

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



if you're starting from nothing, a coursera course or similar is likely to be your best bet. you're probably rich enough to just hire a private tutor, though. i wish you success but don't give up on acting!

Wandering Orange
Sep 8, 2012

What are you transitioning from, if you don't mind? I only ask because I'm a semantic rear end in a top hat and there's two sides to business intelligence - the 'intelligence' part which I usually call the SQL/Python/R/DAX side of things, and the 'business' part of how businesses actually operate, make/spend money, etc. If you're transitioning from anything even mildly business related then you can leverage that really hard, agreeing with Achmed Jones on the acting part.

General courses on SQL, python/R, and a reporting tool like Power BI or Tableau would be a good idea to start with. Not sure what your timeline is but start with the free stuff if you can.

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
It's not for myself, asking for a friend - they're coming from a completely non technical position (office admin stuff).

Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012
Please give me free quality professional advice so I can be a baby about it and insult you
6 month-long hiring loop. Many rescheduled remote onsites and recruiter swaps due to hiring freezes, only for them to go with another candidate in the end

marumaru
May 20, 2013



trying to find a remote midlevel frontend (react) position for a friend in latam. it's been shockingly difficult for them - openings dried up overnight and the few that remain not only have extreme levels of competition (think 500-1000 applicants per posting) and are almost exclusively senior level.
it sucks. pretty bad time to be job hunting

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
i used to get like 2-3 recruiter spam/day inbound, half midlevel and half senior, and now it's turned into 1-2 recruiter spam/day, every single one senior. Junior stuff evidently dried up a few months ago and it looks like midlevel stuff dried up, at least for inbound stuff for me. I guess in a few months senior stuff will dry up too, although the tc levels they say up front seems to be holding - keynes wuz right i guess

Mantle
May 15, 2004

marumaru posted:

trying to find a remote midlevel frontend (react) position for a friend in latam. it's been shockingly difficult for them - openings dried up overnight and the few that remain not only have extreme levels of competition (think 500-1000 applicants per posting) and are almost exclusively senior level.
it sucks. pretty bad time to be job hunting

I have a friend in LATAM working for a Canadian consultancy getting paid in USD. I can make an intro if you DM me a LinkedIn profile. The clients are American and Canadian so his English would have to be good.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

bob dobbs is dead posted:

i used to get like 2-3 recruiter spam/day inbound, half midlevel and half senior, and now it's turned into 1-2 recruiter spam/day, every single one senior. Junior stuff evidently dried up a few months ago and it looks like midlevel stuff dried up, at least for inbound stuff for me. I guess in a few months senior stuff will dry up too, although the tc levels they say up front seems to be holding - keynes wuz right i guess

Yep, as a mid (5-6 years) I atleast used to be guaranteed an interview when I try for a relevant assignment, but now there's like 70 people applying and the gig goes to someone with 15 years of experience. Not seen a junior gig in over 6 months.

Steve French
Sep 8, 2003

bob dobbs is dead posted:

i used to get like 2-3 recruiter spam/day inbound, half midlevel and half senior, and now it's turned into 1-2 recruiter spam/day, every single one senior. Junior stuff evidently dried up a few months ago and it looks like midlevel stuff dried up, at least for inbound stuff for me. I guess in a few months senior stuff will dry up too, although the tc levels they say up front seems to be holding - keynes wuz right i guess

Oddly my inbound recruiter spam volume jumped up a bit recently. I think probably due to my employer being one of the ones that have done layoffs

awesomeolion
Nov 5, 2007

"Hi, I'm awesomeolion."

I want to say for the record that I watched mkbhd's tesla video and self driving is currently dogshit and thread was right and I'm dumb thank you <3

Mega Comrade
Apr 22, 2004

Listen buddy, we all got problems!
My linkedIn and email spam is slightly down, but it often is this time of the year. Speaking for my own company, we have projects we ARE going to do, but the markets have made getting a budget in writing more difficult, so things are on hold until the financial new year. I wouldn't be surprised if this is true for a lot of other companies too. I think there is a downturn, but its not quite as bad as it first appears.

awesomeolion posted:

I want to say for the record that I watched mkbhd's tesla video and self driving is currently dogshit and thread was right and I'm dumb thank you <3

So I don't watch MKBHDs stuff usually. I don't care about phones and that is his bread and butter. and him historically being an Elon fan boy put me off too. But watching his commute was interesting, he looks terrified almost the entire time, like a Dad taking his kid out to drive for the first time ever.

I've said it before, if tesla had just sold 'auto pilot' as a driver lane assist for use on high/motorways, like every other car company has, it would have dodged so much criticism. They could even claim "we have the best lane assist in the industry!" but sadly they have a child as a CEO and he has to embellish everything.

AI Addict is a decent channel to follow if you want FSD demo videos. He does lots of videos in San Jose which has trams and bollards which the tesla struggles with and has time stamps in the description of all notable events. He was a tesla employee but they fired him for posting FSD videos.

His most famous videos is probably this one where it turns into a bollard and crashes, despite it making that turn fine across multiple other videos and FSD versions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbSDsbDQjSU

In that one video it also thinks a wells fargo sign is a stop sign, it runs a red light and also tries to ram some bollards two more times.

Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Dec 15, 2022

Rocko Bonaparte
Mar 12, 2002

Every day is Friday!
I don't know what to think about this switch to senior positions or whatever because they all demand lots of very specific skills and experience that nobody has.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
interviewing is just sales. you wouldn't look at a request for proposal and actually believe anything thats written on there, right? (and you wouldn't gauge your chances of winning an rfp seriously if you didn't get that rfp written in the first place, right?)

just start cosplaying a salespeep in your mind

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED

Rocko Bonaparte posted:

I don't know what to think about this switch to senior positions or whatever because they all demand lots of very specific skills and experience that nobody has.

Most senior jobs don't actually demand anywhere close to what they list on the posting. Yeah sometimes algorithms will gently caress you over; I recommend putting a bunch of keywords on an "other skills" kind of section at the end of the resume for the robots to read, just tell something approaching the truth if a human asks you about a specific one. But I can also tell you that I've had better experiences with recruiters as a senior candidate than I did as a junior.

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

Che Delilas posted:

Most senior jobs don't actually demand anywhere close to what they list on the posting. Yeah sometimes algorithms will gently caress you over; I recommend putting a bunch of keywords on an "other skills" kind of section at the end of the resume for the robots to read, just tell something approaching the truth if a human asks you about a specific one. But I can also tell you that I've had better experiences with recruiters as a senior candidate than I did as a junior.

OTOH, some senior jobs are definitely "Baby come back, I know we can make things work out"

Crazyweasel
Oct 29, 2006
lazy

Hi programming friends, a question from someone kind of new to the SW world - 6 months ago I jumped from a proj. mgr. role on Defense products to a Tech. Prog. Mgr. for Device SW at a Consumer-facing “Tech” company. My portfolio is all MCU driven stuff (running bare metal or an RTOS).

I can see the belt tightening, so I’m thinking about options if I’m laid off in ‘23 or if the company spirals. My fear is that I’m blocked out of more secure/higher paying TPM jobs since I’m not getting any exposure to SoCs/Android/higher level stack stuff.

Is that a reasonable concern? Is there a meaningful delineation between those skill sets/roles in the Commercial world? My hope is that as a TPM my core skills are the same and the lack of domain knowledge wouldn’t be that big of a deal, but I’m still trying to understand the ins and outs of the Tech industry.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

Crazyweasel posted:

Hi programming friends, a question from someone kind of new to the SW world - 6 months ago I jumped from a proj. mgr. role on Defense products to a Tech. Prog. Mgr. for Device SW at a Consumer-facing “Tech” company. My portfolio is all MCU driven stuff (running bare metal or an RTOS).

I can see the belt tightening, so I’m thinking about options if I’m laid off in ‘23 or if the company spirals. My fear is that I’m blocked out of more secure/higher paying TPM jobs since I’m not getting any exposure to SoCs/Android/higher level stack stuff.

Is that a reasonable concern? Is there a meaningful delineation between those skill sets/roles in the Commercial world? My hope is that as a TPM my core skills are the same and the lack of domain knowledge wouldn’t be that big of a deal, but I’m still trying to understand the ins and outs of the Tech industry.

there's a kind of TPM job where they'll put you through domain-specific technical wringers all the time (or they expect you to code half-time competently or something like that - dont do this lol) and there's a kind of TPM job where it's exactly the same as the nontechnical PM job in every way shape and form except you have a different set of buzzwords sometimes. if you're feeling up to the wringers, then go for a TPM role in another place sometime in a reasonable time (reasonable time is 18-36 months in techland, which is a fuckton shorter than defense-land). otherwise, just go for a PM role in another place. often there is a bigger difference between project and product management ("it's like non-mission command and mission command" - but I've heard both of them put forth as the mission command-equivalent one lol)

basically, there's no overall standard for this poo poo, even the putative standards aren't really standards, and you have to be able to smell out dog-poo poo companies and companies you aren't suitable for yourself. peeps are never really blocked from a job title, they are very often blocked out from a job title at a specific place where it actually means a specific thing

there's also a better thread for this, a product/project management thread somewhere in bfc, i think. or general corporate thread

bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Dec 20, 2022

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


I don't think there's a specific product management thread, but there is a general career path thread that might be a better place to ask. We're pretty specialized here.

Feral Integral
Jun 6, 2006

YOSPOS

Is there a good primer for aws, as far as what's expected for interviews that say they want in those skills? https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ is a lot of information

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!

Feral Integral posted:

Is there a good primer for aws, as far as what's expected for interviews that say they want in those skills? https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ is a lot of information

Pretty much everyone with something to say on this will have more cloud experience than me. I've been learning by doing, and what I've learned is that there's an absolute shitload of separate services, each of which do wildly different things, so your question is a bit like asking if there's a primer on Python Libraries. The main connective tissue is IAM, which sets up permissions for users and services.

It might be good for you to try doing a basic project on your own, like setting up a database in DynamoDB (or whatever), and a local script so you can read/write to it, and then make it more complicated by having a Lambda function that automatically adds a timestamp when a database element has been changed (this will probably involve IAM as well, but I haven't thought it all through). By that point you'll have your feet under you and you can start either looking into more relevant services, or play around with stuff like Terraform or other deployment tools, which is how organizations actually manage their cloud systems.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
given that, there is still a radical inequality between aws services and their usages. the actual histogram is proprietary to aws, i think, but it has to be the case that ec2, s3, iam stuff, sqs, ebs, cloudfront, elb, rds, cloudwatch, sns, route53, ses, redshift, cloudformation are pretty dominant and quantum compute, omics, satellites, private 5g, panorama, stuff like that is rare and idiosyncratic

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
this third-party thing says that lambdas, kinesis, glacier, beanstalk, dynamodb, sagemaker and lightsail are up there too, which makes sense to me

https://allcode.com/top-aws-services/

the acronym and name spam does suck, i recommend spaced repetition flashcards like anki

(note that there are so fuckin many of these things acronyms collide: ebs is blockstore and beanstalk lol)

bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Dec 21, 2022

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Frederick P. Brooks Jr., Computer Design Innovator, Dies at 91

oliveoil
Apr 22, 2016

bob dobbs is dead posted:

the acronym and name spam does suck, i recommend spaced repetition flashcards like anki

Man I thought GCP's names were unpleasant with everything seemingly having "Cloud" in its name but at least they're somewhat descriptive so you know roughly what domain of problems each tool falls under.

What the gently caress is a beanstalk lightsail?

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

oliveoil posted:

Man I thought GCP's names were unpleasant with everything seemingly having "Cloud" in its name but at least they're somewhat descriptive so you know roughly what domain of problems each tool falls under.

What the gently caress is a beanstalk lightsail?

when you're hosed from an outage of one or by a poor implementation of one, or if you do a project using one for everything its got, you'll remember the name

i learned those names that way, but it sorta took 8 years

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

oliveoil posted:

Man I thought GCP's names were unpleasant with everything seemingly having "Cloud" in its name but at least they're somewhat descriptive so you know roughly what domain of problems each tool falls under.

What the gently caress is a beanstalk lightsail?

Get a cloud practitioner cert and Amazon will let you sell their tech stack to your boss.

That won't help with understanding what it's for, because you'll still just repeat words in similar to appropriate context without understanding. But it will help you grift your way through a few more years of employment.

lifg
Dec 4, 2000
<this tag left blank>
Muldoon
My understanding of AWS is within a rounding error of zero, so I refer to this website frequently.

https://expeditedsecurity.com/aws-in-plain-english/

Comb Your Beard
Sep 28, 2007

Chillin' like a villian.
I work mainly with PHP/Laravel and I do enjoy working on it. But I kinda want to diversify and earn more money. Should I learn Go or Python? Have a tiny bit of Python experience writing some AWS Lambda scripts. Earlier in my career was Java, still have a strong foundation there.

I do see purely PHP postings sometimes that are in the mid to high 100's in comp for senior but there are def less of them.

spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer
I found Go to be an easy transition from PHP, but it depends on your PHP habits. If you're using Composer, programming to interfaces, and using static types, you'll feel very much at home.

minato
Jun 7, 2004

cutty cain't hang, say 7-up.
Taco Defender
I much prefer Python over Go for most of my tools. I find Go useful for writing statically-linked self-contained cross-platform binaries. But Python is what I reach for when I need a quick and/or dirty throwaway / prototype. If you're doing system programming, maybe choose Go. Anything else, including webdev, I'd go for Python.

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004

Based on pure popularity alone, Javascript/Typescript is very valuable. Typescript makes using Javascript suck a lot less especially for long-running/large-scale projects. But it's still Javascript at the end of the day with all the warts and bruises that entails.

Similarly, Java is hugely popular and lucrative. It's what most of "big tech" run on, as well as tons of small-medium companies -- as well as old dinosaurs but they're stuck in legacy hell. Modern Java is quite nice compared to the old Java 6 EE days, but still carries baggage. Can still be verbose but the JVM is dead nuts reliable and static typing etc make maintenance and refactoring support so much better than any dynamic language and the flavor of the day isn't changing every few months.

I personally don't love Python all that much, but it is obviously popular too. I tend to see it a lot more in data analytics/ML and system scripting stuff than production web apps. If I were writing a new web backend for a non-startup company I would not choose Python, but plenty of people do.

For me, quick & dirty I'd reach for TS+node, for real making money prod-ready web stuff I'd reach for the latest Java with spring boot (or maybe Kotlin if chasing trends). But I've been Java-pilled ($$$) so ymmv. If you told me five years ago I'd be bullish on Java/JVM langs I'd have laughed at you but here we are.

Guinness fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jan 4, 2023

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Comb Your Beard posted:

I work mainly with PHP/Laravel and I do enjoy working on it. But I kinda want to diversify and earn more money. Should I learn Go or Python? Have a tiny bit of Python experience writing some AWS Lambda scripts. Earlier in my career was Java, still have a strong foundation there.

I do see purely PHP postings sometimes that are in the mid to high 100's in comp for senior but there are def less of them.

the idea of learning a language just because is foreign to me these days, i wouldnt learn either until you have a job or project for which it'd be a good fit

for juniors, sure, learn a little about different programming paradigms or whatever, get more experience, blah blah blah. but you already have experience with plangs and normal languages, neither go nor python is going to teach you anything that meaningful other than the idiosyncrasies of the particular languages in question. youre probably not going to self-study-for-funsies your way to professional competency in either of them unless you're doing a meaningful project in them (in which case you have a 'job or project...' and the above advice holds true)

Comb Your Beard
Sep 28, 2007

Chillin' like a villian.

Achmed Jones posted:

the idea of learning a language just because is foreign to me these days, i wouldnt learn either until you have a job or project for which it'd be a good fit

for juniors, sure, learn a little about different programming paradigms or whatever, get more experience, blah blah blah. but you already have experience with plangs and normal languages, neither go nor python is going to teach you anything that meaningful other than the idiosyncrasies of the particular languages in question. youre probably not going to self-study-for-funsies your way to professional competency in either of them unless you're doing a meaningful project in them (in which case you have a 'job or project...' and the above advice holds true)

Yes that's probably the most realistic answer, thanks! Good food for thought. This thread helped me change jobs Sept 2021, I'm contemplating looking again, but things aren't that bad.

One thing I do miss about Java was the nice debugging.

Comb Your Beard fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Jan 5, 2023

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

Comb Your Beard posted:

Yes that's probably the most realistic answer, thanks! Good food for thought. This thread helped me change jobs Sept 2021, I'm contemplating looking again, but things aren't that bad.

One thing I do miss about Java was the nice debugging.

Always be looking. But say no a lot.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply