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Cleretic posted:They weren't the only developer to make that mistake, although they were probably the loudest. To be fair, Tomonobu Itagaki was super hardcore into that sort of thing and they were just trying to follow in his footsteps after he left (because he wanted to do EDGY poo poo only, ironically) and well, it backfired. Kchama has a new favorite as of 09:17 on Dec 12, 2022 |
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Dec 12, 2022 07:27
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The entire 360/PS3-era was really bad when it came to japanese devs trying to 'westernize' their franchise. Turns out that cultural idiosyncrasies are a thing most players actually like, and wrangling your franchise into the mold of a generic western game will just get you...a generic game. Ironically, I think the most influential title of that generation was Dark Souls, a game made by a developer who did not compromise on their ideas in the slightest and found a niche that happened to perfectly overlap with both Japanese fantasy like Berserk and western knights- and-wizards stories. It's almost like compromising your vision to cater to imagined and over-generalized cultural conceptions is a Bad Idea.
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Dec 12, 2022 16:43
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Sobatchja Morda posted:The entire 360/PS3-era was really bad when it came to japanese devs trying to 'westernize' their franchise. Turns out that cultural idiosyncrasies are a thing most players actually like, and wrangling your franchise into the mold of a generic western game will just get you...a generic game. Dark Souls is funny as it was heavily inspired by Western fantasy literature, as the creator was inspired by all of the Western fantasy novels he could barely read. JRPGs on the whole are based on Western CRPGs (Wizardry, almost entirely) but evolved their own flavor. Of course, this is probably why most JRPG devs see no need to 'westernize', because the core is a Western franchise (that ironically became a Japanese franchise almost entirely in the end).
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Dec 12, 2022 16:48
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Kchama posted:DmC was very weird overall because Capcom literally shopped out to people like that, and even refused to actually let them make it more like the original games when they started to feel like being backwards, edgy, and misanthropic was a really bad fit for DMC. All because Inafune convinced Capcom that 'everybody hates Japanese games' (maybe he talked to Phil Fish?) and that they had to go EDGY and hire western devs to do all their games for them to survive. It was also completely redeemed by giving Dante a cowboy hat as a weapon in dmc5
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Dec 12, 2022 18:18
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Kchama posted:Dark Souls is funny as it was heavily inspired by Western fantasy literature, as the creator was inspired by all of the Western fantasy novels he could barely read. IIRC when Demon Souls was first under development the idea was to create an Oblivion-alike.
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Dec 12, 2022 18:41
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muscles like this! posted:IIRC when Demon Souls was first under development the idea was to create an Oblivion-alike. Sony literally approached From Soft and told them "we don't have Oblivion on the PS3, make us Oblivion on PS3" and Hidetaka Miyazaki heard that order and said "third person King's Field game, got it"
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Dec 12, 2022 18:46
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Sobatchja Morda posted:The entire 360/PS3-era was really bad when it came to japanese devs trying to 'westernize' their franchise. Turns out that cultural idiosyncrasies are a thing most players actually like, and wrangling your franchise into the mold of a generic western game will just get you...a generic game.
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Dec 12, 2022 23:06
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muscles like this! posted:IIRC when Demon Souls was first under development the idea was to create an Oblivion-alike. It's stuff like this that makes me wonder how much of running a professional game studio is about trying to figure out how to make the game you actually want to make while still complying with the publisher contract. Like sure they're both games where you kill demons with a sword, but there's no way you intentionally try to make an Oblivion clone and end up making Demons Souls instead Acute Grill has a new favorite as of 23:15 on Dec 12, 2022 |
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Dec 12, 2022 23:12
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Kchama posted:Dark Souls is funny as it was heavily inspired by Western fantasy literature, as the creator was inspired by all of the Western fantasy novels he could barely read. I thought it wasn't even novels, but like tabletop RPG source books and poo poo. The games definitely have a vibe.
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Dec 13, 2022 03:04
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Acute Grill posted:It's stuff like this that makes me wonder how much of running a professional game studio is about trying to figure out how to make the game you actually want to make while still complying with the publisher contract. Yeah, it definitely wasn't intentional on that part. The general way that part of the development went was that the 'Oblivion clone' plan was an almost-immediate non-starter, but then Hidetaka Miyazaki, fresh off some Armored Core games, took control because he could tell he could just mold it into what he thought would work. The higher-up outlook was that they were going to cancel it eventually, but couldn't get around to it until after it was too far along to can. Matt McMuscles has a great video about its development, a HUGE amount of it involved just straight-up lying to Sony and honestly it's a miracle it even got released. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ3_I10FXIY
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Dec 13, 2022 03:20
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That Italian Guy posted:It's core feature - the difficulty, how punishing the gameplay was - is also in stark contrast with most games of that generation until then, Demon Souls more so that the follow ups. Which is definitely due to the producers not meddling with the game making, in this case. Yeah, given games of that era basically try to drag you to the credits by any means necessary- achievements broke the brains of publishers for a good few years apparently- the difficulty was refreshing, and then the runaway success of Dark Souls apparently threw devs for quite a loop. Acute Grill posted:It's stuff like this that makes me wonder how much of running a professional game studio is about trying to figure out how to make the game you actually want to make while still complying with the publisher contract. There's that and also a good chunk of figuring out what actually works given the technical and time constraints you're working under. And it's also often very interesting when Japanese developers do their take on a Western genre and what comes out of it between the cultural filter, development environment, and design priorities. Like Breath of the Wild clearly is basically Nintendo's take on the Ubisoft-style sandbox complete with the goddamn tablet and towers, but was hugely refreshing as a sandbox that wasn't desperately dragging you to every single setpiece in terror that you might miss something that precious development budget was put into. And Elden Ring clearly picked up on that, taking the Dark Souls formula that was already pretty open-ended and going nuts with it to the point where you have a game very few people experience the same way.
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Dec 13, 2022 03:39
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The Moon Monster posted:I thought it wasn't even novels, but like tabletop RPG source books and poo poo. The games definitely have a vibe. It was a mixture. One of them was even GRRM's books, which probably explains why they went to him to write Elden Ring's backstory. The Dragonpass boardgame and the tabletop setting it was based on is what Demon Souls was initially based off of, which makes a LOT of sense if you know anything about it. carrionman posted:It was also completely redeemed by giving Dante a cowboy hat as a weapon in dmc5 That's a fair point. muscles like this! posted:IIRC when Demon Souls was first under development the idea was to create an Oblivion-alike. As someone else said, it was a long, funny road how it became Demon Souls.
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Dec 13, 2022 04:05
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Ghost Leviathan posted:And it's also often very interesting when Japanese developers do their take on a Western genre and what comes out of it between the cultural filter, development environment, and design priorities. This is what happens when you take "Dale Cooper's coffee appreciation" and you paint it over with "Japanese game direction", for example:  https://www.pastemagazine.com/games/the-7-most-striking-similarities-between-twin-peak/ That Italian Guy has a new favorite as of 09:53 on Dec 13, 2022 |
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Dec 13, 2022 09:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-41YUSZ9VAg
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Dec 13, 2022 10:34
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Mr Volcott. Your embedded link was not displaying the video. So says, Mr Stewart.
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Dec 13, 2022 11:12
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That Italian Guy posted:Not really something that hasn't aged well, but that was weird from the get go: Japan's game industry fascination with Twin Peaks. Its Americana was already weird and out of time, so it was doubly so when filtered through the "Bob Dugnutt" filter - Mizzurna Falls and Deadly Premonition being the two most notorious ones. Fun fact: It was actually a Twin Peaks game until pretty late in development. They lost the license so they redid it as Off-Brand Twin Peaks which still was really good.
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Dec 14, 2022 11:47
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That Italian Guy posted:Mr Volcott. Mr Guy, Next time you must take a bit more time. Please remember you have to rhyme. So says, Mr Stewart
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Dec 14, 2022 12:49
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Kchama posted:Fun fact: It was actually a Twin Peaks game until pretty late in development. They lost the license so they redid it as Off-Brand Twin Peaks which still was really good. It was never an official Twin Peaks game, it was a lot more obviously Twin Peaks inspired until the developers got sued and retooled the game.
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Dec 15, 2022 19:02
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ookiimarukochan posted:It was never an official Twin Peaks game, it was a lot more obviously Twin Peaks inspired until the developers got sued and retooled the game.  Even though they had to change the game to be less of a Twin Peaks ripoff, they still managed to sneak in Laura Palmer's homecoming photo in Not Laura Palmer's bedroom in the final game: 
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Dec 15, 2022 20:21
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My favorite theory/explanation is that SWERY genuinely has never seen Twin Peaks. No, rather he's a fan of Georgia Coffee. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3acm7j9k_1w CJacobs has a new favorite as of 20:32 on Dec 15, 2022 |
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Dec 15, 2022 20:29
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Deadly Premonition felt less like Twin Peaks and more like someone who had heard or read about Twin Peaks and seen a few pictures but maybe that's just me.
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Dec 15, 2022 21:00
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Nobody said it feels like a game a person who understood Twin Peaks made, just one who got excited by the aesthetic.
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Dec 15, 2022 21:06
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By popular demand posted:person who understood Twin Peaks How many people could this be?
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Dec 15, 2022 21:58
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Twin Peaks is a story about how everyone who fucks dies so it's just sexless townies who didn't get to hang out in the mind palace left.
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Dec 15, 2022 22:20
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Volcott posted:Twin Peaks is a story about how everyone who fucks dies so it's just sexless townies who didn't get to hang out in the mind palace left. That is canonically false, we know that the sheriff's dispatch officer and the deputy hosed, and they lived a long and happy marriage. Everyone else though, yeah, they're all dead.
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Dec 15, 2022 22:24
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Speaking of twin peaks, did anything ever come of that secret david lynch project for netflix that everyone assumed was going to be another twin peaks?
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Dec 15, 2022 22:30
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Randalor posted:That is canonically false, we know that the sheriff's dispatch officer and the deputy hosed, and they lived a long and happy marriage. There are a couple characters now wandering around in our universe, so that's fun!
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Dec 15, 2022 22:39
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christmas boots posted:Deadly Premonition felt less like Twin Peaks and more like someone who had heard or read about Twin Peaks and seen a few pictures but maybe that's just me. I think he understood it just fine, considering he nailed it. This is even true if he had only seen a few pictures and heard vaguely about it. Also as far as I understand, 'lost the license' is less correct and more 'was refused it'. They were never sued or anything. It was more like Warcraft and Warhammer where they built a game and showed it off to get the license and got denied, so they just retooled it.
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Dec 16, 2022 20:31
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I love Twin Peaks as much as any other goth white lady but I'll go on record saying I unironically enjoy the storytelling of Deadly Premonition more. Most likely because there's one less James and one more Goku.
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Dec 16, 2022 22:40
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I was watching the NYE Twilight Zone marathon and one thing that jumped out at me was how much the poor women actresses were just constantly manhandled on camera. Grabbed at the wrists and yanked around, dramatically shaken by the shoulders while some man says “can’t you seeeee Delores” I’m assuming this is how all people interacted back in the 60s.
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Jan 1, 2023 11:19
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exquisite tea posted:I was watching the NYE Twilight Zone marathon and one thing that jumped out at me was how much the poor women actresses were just constantly manhandled on camera. Grabbed at the wrists and yanked around, dramatically shaken by the shoulders while some man says “can’t you seeeee Delores” I’m assuming this is how all people interacted back in the 60s. * slap * get a hold of yourself.
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Jan 1, 2023 13:30
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Fingerless Gloves posted:Mr Guy, So says who? And don't call me Mr Stewart.
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Jan 2, 2023 18:42
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exquisite tea posted:I was watching the NYE Twilight Zone marathon and one thing that jumped out at me was how much the poor women actresses were just constantly manhandled on camera. Grabbed at the wrists and yanked around, dramatically shaken by the shoulders while some man says “can’t you seeeee Delores” I’m assuming this is how all people interacted back in the 60s. https://jezebel.com/i-dont-know-whether-to-kiss-you-or-spank-you-a-half-ce-1769140132
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Jan 2, 2023 20:19
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I’m not going to say aspects of twilight zone aren’t dated, but I’d say over all it holds up pretty well.— though the one episode that really raised eyebrows I saw was when the two soldiers are the only people left on earth and they don’t speak the same language and the man kind of forces the woman soldier to fall in love with him. Given the time it could be worse, but definitely kind of icky.
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Jan 4, 2023 20:05
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exquisite tea posted:I was watching the NYE Twilight Zone marathon and one thing that jumped out at me was how much the poor women actresses were just constantly manhandled on camera. Grabbed at the wrists and yanked around, dramatically shaken by the shoulders while some man says “can’t you seeeee Delores” I’m assuming this is how all people interacted back in the 60s. God this was me last summer trying to watch clips from old Elvis movies from around the same time period. He's super rough with basically every love interest but I think it was supposed to come off as "romantic": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnRVEbL4UBg I just love how one of the top comments is calling him "a very charming man" here when he basically just brute forced Nancy Sinatra into giving him a shot, lol
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Jan 4, 2023 20:29
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Ambitious Spider posted:I’m not going to say aspects of twilight zone aren’t dated, but I’d say over all it holds up pretty well.— though the one episode that really raised eyebrows I saw was when the two soldiers are the only people left on earth and they don’t speak the same language and the man kind of forces the woman soldier to fall in love with him. The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street still slaps.
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Jan 4, 2023 20:42
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Blood Nightmaster posted:God this was me last summer trying to watch clips from old Elvis movies from around the same time period. He's super rough with basically every love interest but I think it was supposed to come off as "romantic": Watching that clip reminds me of one of the most influential notes I have received from a director. I was in a Gilbert & Sullivan production back in 2017 and I went into rehearsals with the idea that my character, a British Colonel, would be a little gruff and physical. I knew to not actually hit or pull anyone but I still ended up doing similar things as to what Elvis is doing in that clip and continued until our director gave me this note after one of our stumble-throughs: "STOP PAWING AT THE LADIES!! I get it and I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong, but you are going to have to stop grabbing the girls' arms because it reads like you might be an abuser to the audience" I mention this because it also made me stop and think and realise that, again, the only reason I was doing what I did was because it seemed "appropriate" for the scenes. That kind of behaviour had been normalized, in fact no one else in the production told me it felt inappropriate quite the opposite since I immediately asked my scene partners if I had gone too far that day and they were just as surprised by the sudden need to change it. However, it was a great thing for me because it made me realise that a lot of toxic behaviours are normalized and especially in film & theatre, so we end up perpetuating them without really realising that we can accomplish the same goals and not look as violent or angry. Though honestly, watching old movies can always be a trip, I recall watching Mr. Smith Goes to Washington for the first time and thinking "wait a minute, we just had a montage dedicated to him finding every journalist that badmouthed him and he punches them, and he's not being charged with assault and battery?! Was that just something people could do in the 30s?"
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Jan 4, 2023 23:52
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I recently watched some episodes of New Girl and I forgot how annoying it was that Jess clearly doesn't have lenses in her glasses, even when other characters do. Which I guess isn't an example of media not aging well.
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Jan 5, 2023 02:28
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grittyreboot posted:I recently watched some episodes of New Girl and I forgot how annoying it was that Jess clearly doesn't have lenses in her glasses, even when other characters do. Which I guess isn't an example of media not aging well. Was there a character reason for that? I didn't stick with the show for more than a few episodes, and now I can't remember anything specific about it. When I had my senior portraits taken, the photographer had me wear frames with no lenses so he didn't have to account for the reflections when we were shooting outside with natural light, but like...that's a single cam sitcom, it can't be a technical issue.
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Jan 5, 2023 02:33
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It’s never acknowledged that she’s not wearing real glasses. I assume it was just a filming issue.
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Jan 5, 2023 02:46
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