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Natural 20 posted:Coolio. Prowler posted:Here are a few tips that carried me in the game: ...man I'm really bad at this game for not realizing some of this sooner (I did learn recently about ice reducing move but a 2 TP cost felt a bit steep). And I did know about Erador Provoke but I always felt it came a bit short because of the low range. You know what? Gonna go back to the save before the decision, finish buying spices on the merchant for more uses of Medina's Quick and redeem myself on that fight on Normal (it should be easier since I can drop Geela and Benedict for more offensive pressure or Erador. That said please give me a medal soon). Edit: Oh yeah, forgor some stuff, like how Frederica's TP on kill is actually a forge skill I can access now, I realize after the battle  which would make her an amazing finisher, letting Julio go give TP to someone else.Also, who would be the best first tier 3? For what I saw Ice Mage would benefit a lot since he's get TP+ on Ice, again making him TP neutral most of the time and letting me feed TP to someone else. GiantRockFromSpace fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Jan 3, 2023 |
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Jan 3, 2023 16:22
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Cackling that I struggled my way through this game ignoring Medina completely (never once used her) and didn't get Corentin. Sounds like I could have had a much easier time! Still looking forward to a NG+ someday but I have too many games on the backlog at the moment, so I'll probably forget all the Pro Strats by the time I do.
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Jan 3, 2023 16:54
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fwiw Corentin is much worse on New Game than Rudolph. Traps end entire maps and early Rudolph hits like a truck. But yeah, Corentin gets the most out of tier 3 of basically anyone in the game.
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Jan 3, 2023 17:04
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I LOVE Rudolph, he was in pretty much every one of my active parties. Plus his insane "HA HA ha ha HA HA ha ha" when leveling up never failed to make us lose it.
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Jan 3, 2023 17:13
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Poque posted:I LOVE Rudolph, he was in pretty much every one of my active parties. Plus his insane "HA HA ha ha HA HA ha ha" when leveling up never failed to make us lose it. Sounds awesome but he'll sadly have to wait until the NG+ where I choose the opposite choices before the NG++ for the True Ending (unless there's some jumping accross chapters allowed or smth).
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Jan 3, 2023 17:34
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Sounds awesome but he'll sadly have to wait until the NG+ where I choose the opposite choices before the NG++ for the True Ending (unless there's some jumping accross chapters allowed or smth). There are four endings and you can (theoretically) get all of the characters by doing four playthroughs. I did it but I lucked out on my first run because I happened to pick choices other than the ones required for the golden ending so I could pick those on run #4. The golden ending doesn’t require you to have all 30 characters but you split your characters into three squads of ten so if you are missing characters you will be short-handed. After you beat the game once and can see your full decision timeline it makes planning a lot easier. The hardest character to get is probably Travis because his conditions are counter-intuitive. You have to give up the Roselle from the village but then go back to the village when given the choice later. Really stupid but I did it the run I sided with Hyzante because it seemed thematically appropriate.
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Jan 3, 2023 17:53
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:There are four endings and you can (theoretically) get all of the characters by doing four playthroughs. I did it but I lucked out on my first run because I happened to pick choices other than the ones required for the golden ending so I could pick those on run #4. ...okay, that made me try to check out recruit conditions trying to avoid spoilers, and I'd really like one clarification. Does that choice lock you into an ending? Cause from what I've seen you get another different character if you protect the Roselle and also do that, but a different choice is needed for the true ending and I wouldn't want to miss out on either an ending or a character.
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Jan 3, 2023 18:30
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:...okay, that made me try to check out recruit conditions trying to avoid spoilers, and I'd really like one clarification. That choice locks you out of the golden ending, since that requires you to protect the Roselle, but visit your dad instead of the Roselle later. You get a different character if you choose to protect the Roselle and then visit them later. You get Trish instead who is really good. But the ending you get is based on the final three-way vote which you can pretty much sway whichever way you want if your convictions are high enough. Maybe not on your first playthrough, but on subsequent ones you should be able to force through whichever choices you want. For the golden ending, if the conditions are right you get the choice to bypass that final vote and forge your own path.
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Jan 3, 2023 18:46
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:That choice locks you out of the golden ending, since that requires you to protect the Roselle, but visit your dad instead of the Roselle later. You get a different character if you choose to protect the Roselle and then visit them later. You get Trish instead who is really good. Oh, okay, perfect. I guess I will visit the Roselle both times having protected or evicted them for both of them and lwave visiting dad for the golden route attempt.
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Jan 3, 2023 19:14
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Yeah I was lucky to have managed to do nothing Golden path quite wanted, so I was able to do it and get every unit in 4 playthroughs, first time I've 100% a game in ages too. Loved the experience and I still revisit some saves to play the best maps over and over.GiantRockFromSpace posted:1) On Normal. Honestly even just getting 99 of the cheapest pellets makes Medina as good a healer as Geela and you can honestly buy 50 and still never run out. You'll have that plus her other utility. She's a very good character. Saving up for the multi-heal pellets makes her the best healer and then there's the TP. I'll say anywhere between 30-50 of any item is probably enough to have without overdoing it. It's grindy... but frankly the ch 10 thing is pretty painless to do especially with what seems to be your souped up Fred. GiantRockFromSpace posted:You know what? Gonna go back to the save before the decision, finish buying spices on the merchant for more uses of Medina's Quick and redeem myself on that fight on Normal (it should be easier since I can drop Geela and Benedict for more offensive pressure or Erador. That said please give me a medal soon). Also on that map, you'll notice you can shove the enemy off the bridge. Abuse the poo poo out of that and then park someone/anyone at the top of the ladder. They'll just wait down there until you're ready to take them out. It's very funny to push one of the twins down there as they impotently watch you mop of their soldiers. They really designed the cast well. Fred's TP on Kill goes super well with the highest magic having mage in the game. It means you can just chain kills and keep her topped off. If you want to use Corentin more then his Tier 3 Skill is a must. I really didn't use mages often because of how much they either monopolize Julio (who is a decent fighter in his own right) and Medina. I was big on archers, tanks, and powerhouses. But with Corentin, it's less about how many he kills but about map control. Map control is the single strongest strategy in the game, look for chokepoints, take the high ground, if you can shove take your pushers. If you can't find a chokepoint, learn to make it using traps and ice-wall. My hard mode run went smoothly due to exploiting AI and just funneling them down death alley. I do think the game is best played on normal. You'll never 1-shot an enemy but eventually your stronger units can 3-shot them sometimes even 2 with good planning and follow-up attacks, and that feels nice as you don't need to turtle quite as much. Blackbelt Bobman posted:You get Trish instead who is really good. I never used the other dude too much so I can't say, but this one was a big let-down for me. I initially thought they were awesome, but they quickly lose their usefulness as the mobility archer when you realize it's not a super useful niche (as we said turtling is the master strategy), plus to get that to activate requires quite a bit of TP and set-up, and while Anna gets Surmount as a Free Action, Leap never ever comes close to making her that useful since it just eats turns. I used a lot of archers in my games and was consistently let down by them. While they can run with the horses, they actually can't do anything once she arrives. Their best use is getting to an untouchable high point and then plinking away at the enemy, but that only applies part of the time and makes their ability kind of moot when Hughette does it better and faster.
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Jan 3, 2023 19:33
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Oh, okay, perfect. I guess I will visit the Roselle both times having protected or evicted them for both of them and lwave visiting dad for the golden route attempt. Yes this is the one thing you must do to get all the characters across four playthroughs.
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Jan 3, 2023 19:46
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Regy Rusty posted:Yes this is the one thing you must do to get all the characters across four playthroughs. Which is a shame because the character saved to last that way is terrific. Though the one you didn't mention is also brilliant and arguably my favorite in their category.
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Jan 3, 2023 22:08
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Cleared the bridge fight on Normal, and without deaths to boot! It turns out my biggest mistakewasn't unit choice or not using Medina... it was going for the bulky knights, letting myself be sniped and blasted by the mages, just to get access to the high elevation. Turns out going for Thale's side meant the physical units couldn't attack me and clearing the mages with Spark let my units live. Also thank god for the push advice, gave me lots of breathing room by pushing the siblings off the bridge... and for fun points, once I dropped a sibling on top of the other! Had a laugh imagining that. I did have to restart from quicksave twice because I killed them accidentally but in the end Frederica got her revenge. On Normal.
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Jan 4, 2023 00:09
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Man I feel the chapter 15 revelations are a bit... unbalanced in terms of shockingness. Frederica: Hyzante has been censoring history and oppressing the Rozelle to validate a fake claim upon salt! Benedict: Your dad was assassinated by the Royalists. Also he's not your dad, you're Roland's half brother. Roland: The Royalists are mean Serenoa But man what a wild ride. Onto chapter 16's battle now but first I gotta take a hand on the new characters! Trish seems a bit meh compared to Hugette and Archivald, Flannagan is a welcome second tank and an awesome design, and the old kung fu lady is also awesome and seems like a better tank than the other old guys?? Third best defense so far and much better mag. defense. Man this game has a lot of old cool guys. And now I have 3 Valor medals and multiple T3 weapon mats and I'm stuck with decision paralysis  . For now I've gotten only Corentin to Class T3 for TP on Ice, and Seranoa/Frederica to WT3 for their skills (I deeply regret it on Serenoa, a 4 TP skill that's 1 TP per unit is just bad when Medina or Julius do that for free).
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Jan 4, 2023 16:31
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How many characters are tied to having a certain amount of conviction points along a given track? I know I've gotten 3 out of morality so far (I feel cheated that the third one mentions having turrets but they must be real deep into their promotions cause all I'm seeing is a trap that is a lot more niche than the other trap character's and some assorted other weird stuff. Though combining both characters for a wall of trap spam is probably a very valid strategy. The enemy cannot hit you if they're constantly stepping on the entire field of rakes you put down). Also, that pellet healer sounds interesting, are they recruited as part of the story or do I need to gun for a specific conviction?
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Jan 4, 2023 17:23
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Outside of the starting eight characters, and the branching chapters with one recruit per branch, all recruitable characters are tied to conviction tracks. Most of them split their requirements across multiple tracks, though. For the character you're asking about, she requires slightly more Morality than Jens, but also a decent chunk of Liberty.
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Jan 4, 2023 17:47
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Man I feel the chapter 15 revelations are a bit... unbalanced in terms of shockingness. The real revelation with Roland is Roland kinda sucks GiantRockFromSpace posted:Oh, okay, perfect. I guess I will visit the Roselle both times having protected or evicted them for both of them and lwave visiting dad for the golden route attempt. I recommend you stay in Glenbrook once. Honestly I don't think Travis is worth it.
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Jan 4, 2023 17:57
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Fangz posted:The real revelation with Roland is Roland kinda sucks That’s readily apparent from chapter 1. “Worst decision possible” made flesh. In the Benedict ending sure, Serenoa does a capitalism, but Roland the genius thinks it’s a good idea to start an underground rebellion by teaming up with the deposed leader of the religious empire that falsified history to create a slave race who they also used as zombie fodder for their magic automaton fake god. Sure, that guy tooootally has the downtrodden underclasses best interests at heart, Roland.
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Jan 4, 2023 18:42
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:and the old kung fu lady is also awesome and seems like a better tank than the other old guys?? Man this game has a lot of old cool guys. You're definitely looking at her wrong. Review her stats again compared to others, and then look at what skills she gets. (Yes, she is a tank, but not a damage tank.) She--and another fighter you recruit on a different route-are the real front-line fighters when specced right. Serenoa and Roland are really mid-line fighters.
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Jan 4, 2023 18:46
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Prowler posted:You're definitely looking at her wrong. Review her stats again compared to others, and then look at what skills she gets. (Yes, she is a tank, but not a damage tank.) I mean that's what I meant with tank? She can go on the front, fury enemies, dodge a ton and even if she gets hit she has a defense comparable to Erador but a magic defense that exists unlike Erador and the other tank guy I saw (the flying one)
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Jan 4, 2023 18:55
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Yep, a dodge tank is still a tank and she is an excellent one. I think she's got a move that pins enemies as well so she can do that and move out of the way after dodging hits.
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Jan 4, 2023 19:27
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:But man what a wild ride. Onto chapter 16's battle now but first I gotta take a hand on the new characters! Trish seems a bit meh compared to Hugette and Archivald, Flannagan is a welcome second tank and an awesome design, and the old kung fu lady is also awesome and seems like a better tank than the other old guys?? Third best defense so far and much better mag. defense. Man this game has a lot of old cool guys. You're not wrong about those consequences and Roland is consequently the most... Roland... but the character from his path was a shocking revelation for me in terms of usefulness. I fully agree about the unit you got though. As I said earlier their a mobility archer when it's not... that useful. Best you can say is that they can get out of a sticky spot where as the others can't. Your new tank I took for granted for a long time since they're physically weak, but do not sit on him, with the right items they can hit hard enough and they are near untouchable even if magic will wreck them and Erador for that matter. Also, the dodge tank is arguably one of my favorite units overall, with what they can do. Just a great time is had with them in a fight. On skills: Serenoa's skill there isn't ideal, but it's not bad upgrading him since he gets a huge boost for getting to that level and you still use him tons, though it's true his other T3 Skills are undeniably better. Just check to see what skills sound useful/important and upgrade appropriately. If you like using Benedict his skill is really quite useful, but it means you can't use his other ones as you charge it up so it's up to you. You can't do much worse than Roland, but it's not really exciting. Geela is genuinely helpful and if you have another healer up she can safely charge it slowly and really save your butt in a pinch. Your Trish's skill really makes her more useful but I still feel like it's pearls before swine with her. I'd highly consider Erador or even Flanagan with priority to the former. Ezana's final spell is some broken poo poo, especially paired with another character, but I wouldn't take it. So either a tank or Geela if you were to ask me. Obligatum VII posted:Though combining both characters for a wall of trap spam is probably a very valid strategy. The biggest problem with traps is knowing how to place them since they will be dodged if you're not careful, so obviously choke points or baited with a unit makes them invaluable. Traps have a nice effect of damage, movement or holding an enemy but best of all they EAT A TURN. Meaning your opponent is down a whole turn unable to do a thing. It's incredibly useful.
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Jan 4, 2023 20:02
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:I mean that's what I meant with tank? She can go on the front, fury enemies, dodge a ton and even if she gets hit she has a defense comparable to Erador but a magic defense that exists unlike Erador and the other tank guy I saw (the flying one) Got it. Your post focused on her defense and magic defense and mentioned nothing about dodging, which is why I pointed it out.
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Jan 4, 2023 20:39
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...okay, now I see why Roland is the worst? Did he get possessed by a Law SMT hero offscreen!? Like JFC the whiplash of him suddenly going "oh yeah we should all submit to Hyzante and keep their slavery" even with all the bad choices he made was astonishing. Even if Frederica and Benedict also sound like the Heroine and Chaos Hero but at least they sound natural (well Benedict amped his evil schemer stat in the morning). And Roland is the liberty representative? Jeez. Anyways, gonna try for Frederica's option, continuing the proud Wolfwort tradition of betraying everyone, gently caress this poo poo im out.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:01
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:...okay, now I see why Roland is the worst? Roland's choice is the Utility option, Benedict is Liberty. They have kind of represented the other option for most of the game, but the idea is that Benedict was just biding his time until the perfect moment where as Roland has finally lost the will to fight.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:12
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I didn't want to mention earlier, but yeah, the chapter 15 debriefs are all setups for the chapter 17 vote, and this is why Roland's was underwhelming. Frederica and Benedict get to confront and reevaluate exactly what they're fighting for, and commit to it, but Roland just learns that he sucks and decides to lean into being the worst.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:15
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:...okay, now I see why Roland is the worst? He has been a coward since the beginning as far as running away from responsibility. Whereas most stories have the trope of a prince not complying with royal duties, he takes it to the extreme and just wants to avoid as much responsibility as possible as far as deciding his kingdom's prospects.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:34
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Tae posted:He has been a coward since the beginning as far as running away from responsibility. Whereas most stories have the trope of a prince not complying with royal duties, he takes it to the extreme and just wants to avoid as much responsibility as possible as far as deciding his kingdom's prospects. The fake alternate sequel to Hamlet where he becomes an apologist for slavery
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Jan 4, 2023 22:40
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when you tell your brother for his entire life that he has literally no purpose and has to only sit in the castle doing nothing while you, the best brother, do all the important king things that any siblings are too useless and pointless to do… then he’ll kind of start believing it when he has the chance right? The tragedy of roland is that the representatives of his ideals are also the people who killed his family, so he can’t work with them under any circumstances, so he falls directly back into his old role, just under a new big brother.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:43
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I think it works very well tbh. Maybe you gotta take his choice in 15 though for extra context I dunno. With chapter 15 Roland gets entirely cynical about the whole idea of Royalty. It's not like he was ever all that into it but his immediate gently caress up and failure to do anything to help the people he's fighting for and in fact just make them all hate him causes him to give up on the idea entirely. But hey there's one other form of governance on the continent and that one is ruled by an omnipotent God and not any one person. So it would completely absolve him of any responsibility and create a thin veneer that he's still trying to "help" people. So let's bring on the Theocracy! Like he's trying to justify it as it being "fair" for the most people or whatever but I think it's very clear Roland's primary motivation is to abandon the throne and have someone clean up his messes so he doesn't need to deal with the stress and all his failures. Which y'know makes him a coward loser failson and makes it very hards to justify siding with him but I think its a decently compelling move as a character and feels decently built up and showcased. Love it when a game just lets a character get worse. Also explains why he's totally down for Frederica's route because he still ends up abandoning the throne. Hell, he's probably a lot happier because he gets to abandon the throne for justice and friendship and act as the Heroic Knight he's way more interested in being.
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Jan 4, 2023 22:46
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Also explains why he's totally down for Frederica's route because he still ends up abandoning the throne. Hell, he's probably a lot happier because he gets to abandon the throne for justice and friendship and act as the Heroic Knight he's way more interested in being. Yeah the frederica ending really works out for him, he just gets to be a normal dude and do some fishing without any of dumb royal responsibilities
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Jan 4, 2023 22:56
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Snooze Cruise posted:Yeah the frederica ending really works out for him, he just gets to be a normal dude and do some fishing without any of dumb royal responsibilities I bet Frederica guilts him into watching her kid all the time by reminding him of the time he wanted to sell out her people and keep them enslaved because he was sad
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Jan 4, 2023 23:09
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I mean, yeah, it works as a character beat and makes sense in context, and not everyone can be the best person*, but it doesn't change the fact that it makes Roland the worst. *Technically only one person can be the best person, and that's clearly Frederica, no point even trying to compete for that spot.
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Jan 4, 2023 23:12
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I recommend upgrading Ezana because even without the one weird trick her ultimate spell is just loving stupid once you start fueling her to do it every turn.
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Jan 4, 2023 23:17
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DC Murderverse posted:I bet Frederica guilts him into watching her kid all the time by reminding him of the time he wanted to sell out her people and keep them enslaved because he was sad I don't think he'd need to be guilted to do that.
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Jan 4, 2023 23:23
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My biggest issue is that he claims the Roselle are gonna be the only victims and everyone else will be at peace... except by then we've seen that anyone who even dares to not inmediately bowtow to the Ministers' will gets attacked, branded an heretic and dealt away with. Multiple times. The Roselle will not be the only oppressed under them. He wants to give away his responsibilities but in response he chooses to follow someone who is even worse than him. I'm guessing the Golden Route does pop up another possibility that lets him drop the crown without loving everyone up but jeez.
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Jan 4, 2023 23:28
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Yes. That is the point. E: Being a coward running away from responsibility wouldn't be much of a flaw if it wasn't going to have disastorous consequences. And it wouldn't be as interesting if he wasn't trying to justify it as being all for the greater good.
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Jan 4, 2023 23:30
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My favorite detail of the Golden Route is how during the reconciliation, Benedict and Roland give heartfelt apologies for trying to lead you astray, while Frederica just rolls in to say "hey thanks for having my back, you're a good egg."
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Jan 5, 2023 00:00
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:*Technically only one person can be the best person, and that's clearly Frederica, no point even trying to compete for that spot. I don't know how you could play this game and not end up as a Wife Guy, at least to some extent.
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Jan 5, 2023 00:56
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the options to digress from the Path of the Wife Guy are the worst choices you can make in the game. like, frederica's ending path requires a huge leap of faith based mostly on wishful thinking, but the other two options make it look really normal and reasonable by comparison.
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Jan 5, 2023 01:09
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