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A policy from the Zucker Abrahams Zucker think tank. https://youtu.be/TqIHlnfGKV0
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Jan 7, 2023 10:19
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insanely keen ornithologist tells anecdote about buying and releasing a bird = racism seems like kind of a stretch
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Jan 7, 2023 10:20
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What about a toilet seat that halves MPs salaries every time it lights up bright red when cocaine is present?
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Jan 7, 2023 10:21
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Mebh posted:Whoooops. Not been following her for a while. I think theres a few panel comedians that have done some self reflection over that time. Most simply try to pretend they werent working then, and also theres some that have double and triple downed over it.
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Jan 7, 2023 10:25
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A few also continue to be pretty good like Joe Lycett.
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Jan 7, 2023 10:35
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So does he actually tell the owl story as part of a comedy routine or is it just an anecdote he once said? I have a vague recollection of him doing an offensive Chinese impression in one of his shows but I don't remember well enough to say it actually happened. He seems like a nice enough guy generally though.
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Jan 7, 2023 10:38
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Utopia I loving loved that series, even though it may have a poo poo ending overall. It had a school shooting when it was the main thing in the news at the time, no apologies or such from Channel 4. And a banging soundtrack. Channel 4 nixxed it because it wasn't reality TV. Fuckers.
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Jan 7, 2023 10:41
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i saw the US version of utopia first, watched it and thought it was ok/ meh, but then watched the original because you know that to get an american remake it had to be special and it certainly was amazingly, the US version was was so different i didn’t feel like the original was spoiled for me
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Jan 7, 2023 10:45
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Back on the monstering of Corbyn, I was reading some article off Twitter by Jason Pargin (the John Dies at the End guy) talking about how you should be really suspicious when you hear criticism that’s just a cover for actually tapping into people’s insider / outsider distinctions (which apparently are linked to the way we experience disgust). Case in point; “he won’t commit to using nuclear weapons” was never really an attack on Corbyn’s defence policy, it was a figleaf for the real attack which is “he doesn’t share your values”. The “Corbyn loves the EU” stuff was this too, and both attacks were aimed at splitting him off from working class British voters. That leaves the soc dems / centrists so out of nowhere comes the antisemitism: “you’re not an antisemite: he doesn’t share your values”. It’s not really asking you to hate him because of what he’s said or done. It’s all about hating him because of who he is. And it was really effective! Because we’re primed to see outsiders as caricatures. I think Pargin has it right that social media and in particular Twitter absolutely weaponises this and accelerates society’s fragmentation into mutually uncomprehending groups, but heaven only knows what the solution is except “everyone should log off and get to know people”. Here in China we mostly do have social cohesion alongside social media (except in the NW but we don’t talk about that), but that’s because we also live in an ethnostate with an authoritarian government that has a LOT of control over that social media and is fanatically dedicated to keeping things quiet and orderly.
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Jan 7, 2023 10:49
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stev posted:So does he actually tell the owl story as part of a comedy routine or is it just an anecdote he once said? Last time Jedit brought up this supposed "ching chong chinaman" impression (like clockwork), someone posted a video of like, the opposite of that, where he was talking about the actual sounds of Mandarin and how they're very different for Europeans to make. I've not seen any other examples. No idea about the owl thing. But he did make a "hur hur Corbyn" comment when I saw him pre-pandemic, so still melty.
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Jan 7, 2023 10:50
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I feel like the issue there is thinking that social media drives social fragmentation, rather than simply highlighting existing fragmentation inherent in society. Cleaves a bit close to the whole "bloody lefties stirring up trouble by pointing out the class tensions inherent in capitalism"
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Jan 7, 2023 11:07
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stev posted:I have a vague recollection of him doing an offensive Chinese impression in one of his shows but I don't remember well enough to say it actually happened. That's what I'm talking about, not the owl sketch. Literal "ching chong Chinaman" stuff in his live act. It's entirely likely that he dropped it after trying it for a show or two as it went down like a cup of cold sick, but it doesn't mean he didn't do it.
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Jan 7, 2023 11:14
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Bobstar posted:
He endorsed Corbyn for leadership. As far as the big Labour celebrities go, he's one of the more left ones. Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 11:26 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 11:22
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Goldskull posted:I think they've removed all the public urinals bar the longstanding metal ones as Soho St goes on to Soho Square - all through lockdown and it's iterations of street drinking round there the square was surrounded by male/female toilets on the street. I didn't notice that, you're right! Houston St, SoHo appears to be the northern boundary of SoHo in New York! I wonder where they found their quote.
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Jan 7, 2023 11:38
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Comedians will not save you. They are imbedded in the media culture and the media culture is privately educated little toff shits making poo poo up to protect their position.
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Jan 7, 2023 11:40
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Jel Shaker posted:i saw the US version of utopia first, watched it and thought it was ok/ meh, but then watched the original because you know that to get an american remake it had to be special and it certainly was Watching the parts of the US version where the public is screaming for the vaccine during our own pandemic was quite a hoot (no pun intended Bill Bailey fans)
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Jan 7, 2023 11:41
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https://twitter.com/AllyFogg/status/1611652314447716353 Rachael Reeves getting advice on how to be Chancellor from George Osborne, in case you wanted another bit of evidence that Starmer's Labour will just be a return to Cameronism.
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Jan 7, 2023 11:57
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In a vaccum, talking to the last person to go from shadow chancellor to chancellor is probably useful, even if they are from the other side - either way they came in and shook everything up. The real question is - what the gently caress are Rachel Reeves and George Osborne doing at the same party to begin with? And who the hell is playing Things can only get better now? Why is Osborne even let in the door, let alone allowed to stand around chitchatting with a drink in hand like he belongs in those social circles?
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Jan 7, 2023 12:19
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:More broadly, why does the UK punish people first and look into solutions afterwards instead of providing the alternative first so it's ready and waiting for changes in laws etc public transport, supply much improved public transport first before drastically increasing cost of driving. (I leave it to the reader to decide if that's "using superhydrophobic paint on walls" or "pissing over themselves in public")
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Jan 7, 2023 12:25
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Nothingtoseehere posted:The real question is - what the gently caress are Rachel Reeves and George Osborne doing at the same party to begin with? And who the hell is playing Things can only get better now? 'And as Rachel looked up from her drink, the butterflies swirling in her stomach, there he was. George. It was as if the moment were made for the here and now. Things can only get better, Now I've found you.'
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Jan 7, 2023 12:28
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stev posted:So does he actually tell the owl story as part of a comedy routine or is it just an anecdote he once said? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCmmswnRf9c I'm pretty sure it used to contain an extended RP of him trying to purchase it and doing an impression of the chinese accent which lets say hasn't aged well. I'm not going to say straight up racist, but when Bailey does impressions of other people or voices they're rarely flattering, so I can see how without context it would seem like mocking the accent specifically. My memory is dogshit though, so it's very possible I'm looking at it with rose-tinted glasses and completely forgetting specific words or parts of it that were racist. I think there's a version of it on one of his old shows.
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Jan 7, 2023 12:33
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Tesseraction posted:he's fine, just pretty milquetoast
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Jan 7, 2023 12:34
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Hatchet job on Jack Monroe. I don't know how much of this is true or a mega-smear (as it's in the Graun, I'm suspicious), apparently spending a lot of donor's money on booze and expensive furniture (with implication that it is recent not maybe some harking back to a time when she might not have been skint?) Also, apparently she says she is 'trans' now but I'm not sure how you can be a CIS woman and live as a woman and be 'trans' - if the graun is telling the truth about it, seems more like a very confused person with mental health issues. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/07/jack-monroe-interview
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Jan 7, 2023 12:44
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Also, apparently she says she is 'trans' now but I'm not sure how you can be a CIS woman and live as a woman and be 'trans' Not read the article but aren't they non-binary?
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Jan 7, 2023 12:48
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Somebody posted a link in a previous thread that consisted of a massive list of a bunch of incidents and went into a lot of detail about some of the stuff they've done and perhaps being a bit more of a grifter than an actual good person doing good work. I can't find it again though. The thing is, this massive list of stuff could either be true or embellished or completely made up and what am I, a random fucker going to do to discern that? Either way it definitely had a bit of the "massive wall of connected lines" conspiracy feeling and I'm sure there's a lot of right wing nutjobs with an axe to grind with them so I didn't really pay it much mind. thebardyspoon fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 13:14
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Nothingtoseehere posted:In a vaccum, talking to the last person to go from shadow chancellor to chancellor is probably useful, even if they are from the other side - either way they came in and shook everything up. It's the same line of thinking that makes Jess Phillips friends with Jacob Rees-Mogg - sure they're on different sides of the house, but they're just doing their job, so why can't we all be friends? As I've said before, none of them have got any personal stake in ensuring the UK becomes a better place for ordinary people. So someone from the other side enacting policies that lead to over a hundred thousand people dying is just abstract, therefore why not have a nice little chat over some expensive wine and lines of coke in the toilets?
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Jan 7, 2023 13:15
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stev posted:Not read the article but aren't they non-binary? Not sure, it seems confusing. quote:A decade ago a young woman (she now identifies as non-binary and transgender, but is happy for us to use the pronoun she) I mean, she/they can define how they like, but I just find this confusing in a more general sense.
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Jan 7, 2023 13:16
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Hatchet job on Jack Monroe. I wondered when this was coming. The whole Patreon thing has been bubbling for a while. It's a great shame, in the sense that I think they are genuinely trying to Be Better against a strong tide of what seem to be quite serious mental health and addiction challenges, and I hope that they can get off the media rat-race and find time and privacy to untangle what's going on inside.
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Jan 7, 2023 13:20
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Not sure, it seems confusing. I mean technically wouldn’t all non-binary people be trans? They don’t consider themselves as the gender they were assigned at birth so are trans gender by definition, they’ve just gone for an alternate non-binary gender rather than going from male to female or vice versa.
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Jan 7, 2023 13:22
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Not sure, it seems confusing. You could make the argument that NB falls under the same umbrella as trans, though I don't know if everyone would agree with that (either cross-binary transitioners or NB people)
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Jan 7, 2023 13:25
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She/they is still a trans identity. I've followed Jack for several years and consistency isn't their strong point, plus the new book seems to have a lot of very dumb advice in. Still, they've achieved enough politically to explain the venomous and disproportionate backlash.
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Jan 7, 2023 13:27
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team overhead smash posted:I mean technically wouldn’t all non-binary people be trans? They don’t consider themselves as the gender they were assigned at birth so are trans gender by definition, they’ve just gone for an alternate non-binary gender rather than going from male to female or vice versa. It's mixed, about half of enby people identify as trans but the other half don't cause they've not completely crossed the binary. This your regular reminder that gender is a spectrum and doesn't easily fit into categorisation
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Jan 7, 2023 13:30
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I mean, she/they can define how they like, but I just find this confusing in a more general sense. People's concepts of gender are many and varied but if someone is coming at it from "the whole concept of a gender binary is kinda bullshit" then anyone who isn't cis is by definition trans and that includes non-binary people. Non binary people can be very loose on pronouns, some are determined about they/them, some are just like "whatever" and look at it from a "I feel this way, but I recognise I most often present this way, so I get why you'd call me that" point of view. It's the telegraph so they're putting it there as kind of a "now she thinks THIS" level gotcha, so gently caress that, but I don't see that it's confusing. vvv ok, yes. I get that. I think I was parsing that sentence as "its an inherently contradictory statement" rather than "I am personally confused by it" which looking at how Jae put it, I'm not sure was fair of me. Sorry. Isomermaid fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 13:30
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It's confusing in that as Rarity points out, everyone is going to conceptualise it kind of differently based on their experience and how they understand it, so there is not necessarily going to be a single conceptualization that fits everybody (and honestly I kinda hope there never is, I don't really think that attempts to codify highly subjective experiences into universal frameworks does a lot of good and generally leads to attempts to actively sort people in and out of the group) Same reason I am not very keen on the attempts to medicalize sexuality. Some people might want physical/biological explanations for observed behaviours in an attempt to legitimize them in the eyes of society, but I think that fundamentally misunderstands why behaviours are seen as legitimate/illegitimate and is likely to lead to the people who want them to be illegitimate using the "scientific" approach to be lovely to people. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 13:35
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Thanks for the inputs. I think Owl is right, I have a certain conceptualization that I didn't realize I had until we had this little discussion ITT: trying to set some sort of 'boundaries' around definitions - so still in the "gender is digital not analogue" space albeit not the "2 genders good, 4 genders bad" space.
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Jan 7, 2023 13:45
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Having actually read the Munroe interview now, one thing that sticks out to me was the implication of hypocrisy that a 'thrifty living' campaigner would spend money so irresponsibly. Part of the problem with that is the alcohol addiction which would have hosed up anyone's spending priorities. The other is that Jack has never promoted thrifty living as a lifestyle as far as i know, it's always been about making the most out of very little. Spending money erratically when it is there isn't actually in opposition to that, it's just unwise rather than hypocritical. The patreon thing is weird. They definitely hosed up there but the patrons could have just stopped paying if they were unhappy?
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Jan 7, 2023 13:57
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Ultimately, a lot of people who are going through the process of actively interrogating gender and how they experience it, are writing the theory as they go. It is through discussion that any universal theory, if there is one to be found, will emerge. There has been a very small window of time when this current iteration of, uh, gender criticism, for want of a better term, has been going on and so widespread, and particularly with the advent of the internet allowing people to connect with others to talk about it when IRL it would be much harder both to be open about your personal feelings and find other people who might share them. If it helps, think of it like the early 20th century in terms of physics. Lots of best guesses, but many things that are now settled were still competing theories. And that's of course a field that describes the single material universe, never mind something that is trying to describe a social construct that exists semi independently in billions of different heads. Confusion and contradiction are inevitable, such is the process of discovery. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 14:00
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thebardyspoon posted:Somebody posted a link in a previous thread that consisted of a massive list of a bunch of incidents and went into a lot of detail about some of the stuff they've done and perhaps being a bit more of a grifter than an actual good person doing good work. I can't find it again though. I have read up on JM including the massive list of stuff their main enemy compiled, and yeeeah most of the people going after JM are balls-to-the-wall nuts, same kind of single-minded insity you see with the TERFs (and indeed, there is a fair amount of crossover). It's clear that JM has made a lot of mistakes over the years which I would expect of any normal human being, let alone someone with a history of alcoholism and the other issues they've had. But the way these people analyse every line of every tweet, especially if JM ever posts about a material possession they go into how could Someone Like That claim to be able to afford it, and so on. I saw a bunch of GOTCHAS because JM posted about moving to a ground floor building and never having to hoover stairs again, but also they were moving from a bungalow so AHA GOT YOU THIS TIME - but, as any good goon should know, a bungalow can have stairs. But even when that's pointed out it becomes "But how can they get a house? This post from 2 years ago proves she has a judgement against her, so she can't have a mortgage, so she must be a cash buyer, and it must be with her £5K a month patreon earnings and £10K appearance fees, which I saw advertised on a website and furthermore if you zoom in on this photo you can see etc etc etc"
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Jan 7, 2023 14:27
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Its all just so exhausting. Frankly I don't care if they're on the grift, fuckin power to them if they've managed to do that while still helping people out.
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Jan 7, 2023 14:58
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Apropos of nothing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDAvgGzBXw8
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