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Jack Monroe is the perfect example of why people don't want to get publicly involved in left wing or progressive politics. You have to be bulletproof. Even if they spend 90% of their time talking about food poverty and trying to help people who are stuck in it, you still get giant knobheads writing them off because they are actually human and fallible. Worse still is when you get very leftist accounts like babble doing it to someone saying "we should improve society somewhat" and they jump down their throat with a screenshot from 2019 that was mildly critical of Corbyn, as if it's a gotcha when the prevailing media opinion at the time was that he should be shot along with the entire labour membership. The patreon guesses are always powerfully wrong, and if you dive into them always work off wonky calculations like "well if they have 7k followers on twitter, and we assume each of those is subscribed at the highest tier, and then multiply that by facebook, we see that the so-called 'poverty' chef has more money that Elon Musk!" It's not like Supertanskii where she's still coming up with shitlib opinions; Jack has a troubled past and they're currently doing their best, but my god are some of the takes about them hot enough to heat a british home for up to 10 minutes.
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Jan 7, 2023 15:20
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serious gaylord posted:Frankly I don't care if they're on the grift, fuckin power to them if they've managed to do that while still helping people out. That's the thing though - what have they actually done to help anyone? They seem reasonably well intentioned, but they're also all over the damned shop, and so far as I can see they've done the sum total of gently caress all other than self promote and say weird poo poo.
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Jan 7, 2023 15:37
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Jack Monroe is the perfect example of why people don't want to get publicly involved in left wing or progressive politics. You have to be bulletproof. Even if they spend 90% of their time talking about food poverty and trying to help people who are stuck in it, you still get giant knobheads writing them off because they are actually human and fallible. JM was the first activist-celeb where I was concious of them going through the entire media mangle from start to finish in realtime: When she first came to prominence the Daily Mail et. al. loved her ("single mum feeds her kids for a tenner a week!") as a counterpart to all those entitled millenials with their avacado toast and those whiny shirkers who complained about using food banks. Then the second - the absolute second - JM started voicing opinions about exactly why people working full time in the fifth richest nation in the world had to count pennies and budget their food bills to the nth degree they all turned on her, the character assassination began and the online chuds began trawling her accounts to find 'discrepancies' to discredit her. I remember one which was literally "Jack Monroe claims to have no money but tweeted about spending a Sunday afternoon reading a book in their garden. How can they have books and a deckchair while claiming to be poor  "It's an absolute mincing machine of a gig, and I'm amazed anyone has the fortitude to put their head above the parapet, let alone to keep coming back to it.
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Jan 7, 2023 15:38
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all of which is about focusing on the person not that one thing they said that gives us a satisfying dunk. Maybe we should borrow a leaf from the early Christians here: if we want converts (to our shared pro-social view of the world), hate the sin but love the sinner. So go hard against wrong ideas but don’t extend from that to “and they’re therefore irredeemably lovely”, which carries with it “and if any part of that sounds ok to you, I also think YOU are irredeemably lovely.”
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Jan 7, 2023 15:38
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I would generally suggest that a celebrity driven approach to politics is not likely to be very helpful full stop.
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Jan 7, 2023 15:46
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They've put it in their own words here (click into the thread): https://twitter.com/BootstrapCook/status/1611735748113305604 I really don't get what business it is of anyones what you spend Patreon money on. I patreon a few people and if they said they spent it all on booze and furniture I'd say good on you.
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Jan 7, 2023 16:09
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Sighs as I add Bill Bailey to the permanent hate crime ledger.
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Jan 7, 2023 16:29
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Can't even join a union now without getting thrown in jail https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1611738616308310018
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Jan 7, 2023 16:32
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I remember during gamergate they kept bringing up Sarkeesian not fulfilling her Kickstarter promises like she was Theranos and needed to be investigated for fraud. Weird weird little nerds.
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Jan 7, 2023 16:33
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they could really do with not being on twitter like, moreso than other people
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Jan 7, 2023 16:34
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Don't worry, that problem will be solved for everyone soon.
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Jan 7, 2023 16:35
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https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1611380942144405504 I absolutely do not want to hand it to Alistair loving Campbell, but I found this interesting. Having the arch-deacon of lovely liberalism come out in favour of trans rights is quite significant, I think. These people define themselves as being culturally against whatever the people they don’t like are culturally for, and if the hard right are going all in on transphobia this forces liberals to be more supportive of trans people. Mentioning Anita Arkeesian above makes me think that this reminds me of Gamergate actually. While it was horrible, I think it did have the side benefit of forcing the games industry/media to take a side, and not many wanted to be on the side of the psychopaths. The current trans panic may lead to a similar situation.
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Jan 7, 2023 16:43
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Comrade Fakename posted:https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1611380942144405504 I'm not so sure it's about our hard right, to be honest. Trans rights is an area where our lovely liberals have a hard divergence from America's lovely liberals, so this might be more reflective of the circles which Campbell moves in being more americanised than your average guardian journalist's group of pals and twitter followers.
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Jan 7, 2023 17:06
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I don't know that that really holds true when you have keith sitting on the fence about it and being desperate to pander to the tories on everything else.
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Jan 7, 2023 17:06
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Comrade Fakename posted:https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1611380942144405504 Happy to hand it to the oval office on this one
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Jan 7, 2023 17:08
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Reveilled posted:I'm not so sure it's about our hard right, to be honest. Trans rights is an area where our lovely liberals have a hard divergence from America's lovely liberals, so this might be more reflective of the circles which Campbell moves in being more americanised than your average guardian journalist's group of pals and twitter followers. The US right going transphobic makes it even more powerful for UK liberals. They feel a lot worse about calling the Tories who attend their dinner parties monsters than the uncouth people who share the exact same opinions on the other side of an ocean.
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Jan 7, 2023 17:10
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Jan 7, 2023 17:21
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UK liberals are our transphobes, though. it's not a Conservative issue beyond their general catch-all social regressivism. it's liberals who are arguing over other people's genitals because it's liberals who disagree about the topic
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Jan 7, 2023 17:53
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It's more like 0.5% if you include everyone who doesn't identify as the gender they were assigned at birth (and also the 6% who didn't answer the question are obviously an unknown (and also the matter of any young people living at home who haven't come out to whoever was filling in the census form yet))
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Jan 7, 2023 17:54
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: JM agreed to send a free recipe book to the local foodbank, but it never arrived. I assumed it was a blip and moved on with my life because, well, if she made a habit of this, someone would have mentioned it, right? And then a year later out comes a whole tale of other people not getting what they'd been promised. She gets a lot of credit for doing good, and I'm sure the intentions are good, but if they're never followed through then a lot of what is used to deflect criticism is an illusion. It is clear that she's had a very chaotic life but that doesn't change the fact that she's made promises that she wasn't able to keep. Like the fact she was hours late to the photoshoot because she was tired and overslept, then still gets a sympathetic write-up. But she gets away with it because she does a lot of good. So do carers but if one of them rocks up three hours late for a shift, they're getting a warning at best and sacked at worst. Monroe is outraged at the patronising budgeting advice given by politicians because poor people already know how to manage money, and states she's been so poor she's making her own shower gels and washing sauce off spaghetti hoops because it's cheaper than fresh spaghetti. Meanwhile she was spending hundreds of pounds on furniture she didn't want, on expensive lipsticks, and on whisky. It's literally the "spending all their money on booze and designer clothes" trope made flesh. I don't like internet pile-ons, but stuff like her £20 a week food shopping bill really does play into the hands of Tories who constantly spout nonsense that the poor are poor because of bad choices.
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Jan 7, 2023 17:58
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sebzilla posted:It's more like 0.5% if you include everyone who doesn't identify as the gender they were assigned at birth (and also the 6% who didn't answer the question are obviously an unknown (and also the matter of any young people living at home who haven't come out to whoever was filling in the census form yet)) Huh yeah I didn't notice that but that's some real dishonest number manipulation there, he's adding together the people who specifically wrote "trans man" and "trans woman" in the optional write-in bit, as if someone who identifies their gender as something else can't be trans, not to mention the 0.24% of the population who didn't identify with the gender assigned at birth but didn't bother to write in anything. Like 0.5% is already a small number but the dude can't help himself from tweaking the numbers while refusing to understand what being trans means more like daily septic dot org am i rite Angepain fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 18:11
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Lady Demelza posted:Monroe is outraged at the patronising budgeting advice given by politicians because poor people already know how to manage money, and states she's been so poor she's making her own shower gels and washing sauce off spaghetti hoops because it's cheaper than fresh spaghetti. Meanwhile she was spending hundreds of pounds on furniture she didn't want, on expensive lipsticks, and on whisky. It's literally the "spending all their money on booze and designer clothes" trope made flesh. Looking forward to the outrage when they buy a fridge for the new house like so many other supposedly "poor" households
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Jan 7, 2023 18:19
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If these so called leftists are so bothered about food poverty, why do they keep talking about putting beans up their backsides?
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Jan 7, 2023 18:26
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In case anyone’s wondering the comments section is a endless “discussion” about sport, toilets and prisons. It’s so disheartening but also so so tedious. But if my very existence annoys Toby Young even a tiny amount I feel I’m doing some good.
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Jan 7, 2023 18:33
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Bobby Deluxe posted:If these so called leftists are so bothered about food poverty, why do they keep talking about putting beans up their backsides? And why should sex arse workers be allowed to form unions, they are an essential part of the economy.
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Jan 7, 2023 19:25
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I suppose if it's lots of horrible people having a go at Jack Monroe that should be a reason to give support. But she makes it hard work with the relentless martyrdom shict about how hard she works. It was particularly eye rolling when she was tweeting how it's so hard for her because she's the only person doing this. Then the next tweet is bitching at Jamie Oliver and co to stay in their lane and not steal her business by doing a poverty cook book/show.
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Jan 7, 2023 19:50
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That's like a Roosevelt/Hitler thing though, like one of them was a drunk with dodgy opinions but the other should be relentlessly hounded out of public life until all his dreams are in tatters and he's hiding in a bunker and finally decides to poison himself by eating one of his own meals.
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Jan 7, 2023 19:55
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To be fair though, Monroe's presentation is usually more "It sucks to have to budget but here's some tips to not starve" whereas Oliver's is more "See, this is easy - you plebs just need to get yourself sorted out, and don't you loving dare buy any meal deals."
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Jan 7, 2023 19:56
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Perceptions are a funny thing
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Jan 7, 2023 19:58
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jamie oliver also assumes every frigger has a pestle and mortar, melon baller, apple corer and whatnot in their utensils drawer
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Jan 7, 2023 19:59
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i'll bet a fair number of people have ended up in A&E trying to improvise the functionality with the sharp knife such a oval office
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Jan 7, 2023 20:00
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Just pop over the channel where the markets offer the freshest and cheapest produce.
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Jan 7, 2023 20:00
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crispix posted:jamie oliver also assumes every frigger has a pestle and mortar, melon baller, apple corer and whatnot in their utensils drawer 
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Jan 7, 2023 20:02
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Please spoiler tag that poo poo
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Jan 7, 2023 20:04
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Doesn't everyone? You know, in that drawer we all have? You know the one, we all have 'that' drawer in the kitchen, don't we? I always imagined there to be McIntyre on during those Tory lockdown drinks, seems exactly the fit
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Jan 7, 2023 20:06
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Marmaduke! posted:Looking forward to the outrage when they buy a fridge for the new house like so many other supposedly "poor" households Which would be a ridiculous thing to criticise and unrelated to the points people are making.
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Jan 7, 2023 20:11
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I got told off in cookery class for using a knife instead of the peeler, then I switched to the peeler and immediately took a chunk out of myself with it.
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Jan 7, 2023 20:13
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Skulker posted:That's the thing though - what have they actually done to help anyone? They seem reasonably well intentioned, but they're also all over the damned shop, and so far as I can see they've done the sum total of gently caress all other than self promote and say weird poo poo.
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Jan 7, 2023 20:15
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I cleaned out the random drawer of keys, batteries, sticky tape and random cat treats in my kitchen today. No melon baller though. Melon tastes horrid to me. On why George Osborne would be at a Labour party party. I grew up in Chester and once ended up chatting to Giles Brandreth at some kind of political event back when I thought being a Liberal was the height of radicalism because my parents were both telegraph reading tories. I remember him saying something along the lines of that as soon as the doors closed behind them, everyone became buddy buddy as hell, whatever side of the aisle they were on. One thing I think that seriously ruffled feathers regarding the Corbyn administration was that it was no longer a given for the mutual back scratching, "its us vs the electorate" bullshit. Of course now it's right back to that.
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Jan 7, 2023 20:21
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crispix posted:jamie oliver also assumes every frigger has a pestle and mortar, melon baller, apple corer and whatnot in their utensils drawer Anyone comes near me with a melon baller (parisienne spoon) is going to loving die!!!!  *some parts of my catering career were less than optimal*
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Jan 7, 2023 20:24
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