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Weird Pumpkin posted:Finished the game last night, I really enjoyed it! Definitely better than the base game that I played on release. Also, playing through the final base game sequence sober made it much easier to follow Maruki gave me tons of extra SP and flow/detox was a lifesaver so you know what everyone makes mistakes, he's a cool guy in my book. More narratively I think it's just a case of genuinely being forgiving people. Joker saw inside the man's heart, knows that he was motivated by sorrow and good intentions, and can see that after losing everything he worked for he's now just trying to live his life rather than being hung up on the loss, so that's worth supporting. Even Yusuke has mixed feelings about Madarame, and Haru misses her dad despite how lovely he was to her. Makoto's chill with Sae despite how incredibly lovely she was at times too. The PT aren't the sort to hold grudges. Except Ann with Kamoshida. As far as the people chasing the thieves it's basically cops/government minders. Joker got off because of everyone raising a fuss but the government still knows what the Phantom Thieves can do and want to keep an eye on them. Sumire's phone never gets explained, I guess it just got damaged in the accident but she got a new one by the time of the third semester?
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Jan 7, 2023 21:41
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As I understand it: Joker did get arrested as a Phantom Thief, twice, and is still under investigation by some unspecified law enforcement/government agency. Who these guys are is never really specified, but they were also in the vanilla ending I think? The Phantom Thieves are just super forgiving, they were also trying to mend fences with Akechi during Shido's palace, and were cool with teaming up with him again with little more than a nod and a vague threat from Haru and Futaba. A little world domination by a well-meaning lunatic is nothing that gets their hackles up, just gotta change his heart for his own sake and things are peachy. Sumire is his victim and he did all kinds of horrible poo poo to her, and she's still explicitly thankful to him in the end. They're too good for their own good, really. She's using Kasumi's phone, which was in the car crash; her cognition does not allow her to see the obvious damage so she just thinks it's acting up. She has her own phone which works fine, but only uses it consistently once she's aware that she's Sumire. I don't think this is ever actually addressed in any way, but it's what I've been assuming. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 21:48
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:She's using Kasumi's phone, which was in the car crash; her cognition does not allow her to see the obvious damage so she just thinks it's acting up. She has her own phone which works fine, but only uses it consistently once she's aware that she's Sumire. I don't think this is ever actually addressed in any way, but it's what I've been assuming. I hadn't considered the phone itself actually being broken, but I can see that making sense. My assumption was that every time it was "acting up", it was when whoever was contacting her was using the name Sumire, and her being unable to recognize it as her name led to her seeing it as the phone doing something wrong.
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Jan 7, 2023 22:11
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Edit: Yeah, what they ^^ said My assumption was always that she sort of momentarily Blue Screens whenever someone uses her name before Maruki's brainwashing "corrects" it, and she just interprets her own freeze-ups as the phone's issue whenever her dad or anyone not Joker texts her.
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Jan 7, 2023 22:12
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DanielCross posted:Edit: Yeah, what they ^^ said This was also my assumption, though the "her using Kasumi's phone which was damaged in the accident" explanation also makes sense (and probably explains some of the issues she has better).
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Jan 7, 2023 22:15
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:As I understand it: Joker did get arrested as a Phantom Thief, twice, and is still under investigation by some unspecified law enforcement/government agency. Who these guys are is never really specified, but they were also in the vanilla ending I think? Man that would make so much sense and be a cool detail Also on the first part (again, sorta endgame spoilers): Ah ok, I guess I thought that the phantom thieves had sort of been either cleared or the police didn't actually know who they were other than Joker, so they'd have no reason to really be chasing them. I suppose it makes sense that they'd still be wanted criminals, obviously they still did all heart changing things. Though it's kind of weird that apparently the government/police know who the rest of the phantom thieves are enough to chase them around, but not enough to actually arrest them. I suppose they'd just be staking them out to see if they can gather evidence or something though. Weird Pumpkin fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Jan 8, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 23:11
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Weird Pumpkin posted:Man that would make so much sense and be a cool detail I think it's basically that after all the fuss was raised to get Joker out of jail, the government can't really just drum up charges to arrest the thieves again, but even without evidence they know who they all are - Sae had that entire list to run down when you're given the opportunity to snitch but even without snitching those names are still known. So it's a case of just keeping a close eye on them to make sure they don't start anything else/snatching them up as soon as they start something. They're not chasing them to snatch them up at the end of the game, they're chasing them just to keep eyes on them. Presumably with Shido's confession they know exactly what kind of poo poo you can do with the Metaverse beyond just changing hearts so the Phantom Thieves are just too scary to leave unmonitored. Shyrka fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jan 8, 2023 |
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Jan 8, 2023 00:01
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Shyrka posted:I think it's basically that after all the fuss was raised to get Joker out of jail, the government can't really just drum up charges to arrest the thieves again, but even without evidence they know who they all are - Sae had that entire list to run down when you're given the opportunity to snitch but even without snitching those names are still known. So it's a case of just keeping a close eye on them to make sure they don't start anything else/snatching them up as soon as they start something. They're not chasing them to snatch them up at the end of the game, they're chasing them just to keep eyes on them. Could you edit the quote? I screwed up my spoiler tag! And yeah that makes a ton of sense, guess I just didn't really think of it that way, I figured everything was clear after that
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Jan 8, 2023 00:43
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Just finished the casino palace and we managed to start the ship palace  I forgot how Crow only joined us for a few weeks and now I'm sad again. Also, I got everything set up for the 3rd semester but I admit it took a long road since I started way back in October 2022 so now we're actually around the same time IRL too in-game. I liked all the QOL stuff and it was great to see everyone again along with Akechi having a better story role. It's amazing all the new venues are unlocked and I had fun with hangouts...I wish we had more events like in P4G, but so it goes. Also, the skip button is the best tool to move past all the old stuff and I just paused for new scenes. Also, I bought P4:G on PC for mods and I feel like eh, I want to replay it but at the same time the sheer effort again is tiring.
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Jan 8, 2023 01:06
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So I'm into June on first run through of Royal. There's something I don't like about Maruki. I dunno what it is. It's almost, not sure if this is the right word... cloying? Not the character himself but the way the game is just trying so hard to put him across in a certain way. I already know the broad strokes of the spoilers regarding him so I know there's kind of a reason for this. I'm not sure if this is the best way to put it but it's like I can see the strings on the puppet show and I don't like it.
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Jan 8, 2023 01:40
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Alacron posted:So I'm into June on first run through of Royal. There's something I don't like about Maruki. Come on, the dude is giving you free snacks, you can never have too many snacks.
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Jan 8, 2023 02:16
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Alder posted:Just finished the casino palace and we managed to start the ship palace
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Jan 8, 2023 02:16
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Alacron posted:So I'm into June on first run through of Royal. There's something I don't like about Maruki. TBH, during his intro I agreed with the one person going he has a nice voice since he does have a great voice  I feel like the entire confident up to where I am was less sus than I expected but it might go to an extreme place in a few days now.
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Jan 8, 2023 02:55
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HootTheOwl posted:Come on, the dude is giving you free snacks, you can never have too many snacks. Compared to Kamoshida, Kobayakawa, and early-game Kawakami (what is with these K names?), Maruki comes across as a saint. Honestly though the side character teachers are all pretty cool.
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Jan 8, 2023 02:56
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Maruki's deal is that unlike all the other jaded or villainous adults, he comes right out the gate so earnest that it's almost cloying. To be honest, I'm not sure how I'd feel about him if he weren't voiced by the late, great Billy Kametz, because Maruki's dialogue leans into the earnestness to the point where a lot of the lines as written come off as insincere or even condescending, but god drat does the man sell that here is a dude who, from the bottom of his heart, just wants to support others.
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Jan 8, 2023 03:02
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Maruki's deal is that unlike all the other jaded or villainous adults, he comes right out the gate so earnest that it's almost cloying. Yeah RIP to a legend. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFJXVnvgsU4
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Jan 8, 2023 03:05
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Just finished the boss of the ship palace and it's crazy how much they're able to invoke a big fight feel by pairing an appropriately impressive song with it. As soon as the boss fight music kicked in here it was like "oh hell yeah let's loving go". Not a lot of soundtracks in games give me goosebumps moments but I've had quite a few playing this game.
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Jan 8, 2023 03:26
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Less than two weeks for more platform releases of p3p and p4g. Who's excited!?
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Jan 8, 2023 03:28
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Maruki seems to have a bigger contrast than most between the English and Japanese dub (which is a bit of an exception to the norm, since the English dubs for Persona games are usually about as close to identical as you can imagine coming from two different speakers in different languages). They have similar voices, but the delivery is sometimes very different. English Maruki comes off as a lot more confident/"suave" (and kind of insincere/condescending when he's trying to act awkward) when he speaks, while JP Maruki is sort of "scatter-brained but well-meaning" (which makes there be more of a noticeable contrast when you interact with him in the events of the third semester - before that point he's still not sure how to achieve what he wants to achieve, but once he does (with the help of Joker mentioning Mementos) he becomes far more confident/driven). A good example is the scene where he introduces himself on stage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7x6gZHqrFA&t=67s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bDtc3ttI5s&t=36s
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Jan 8, 2023 03:38
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Ineffiable posted:Less than two weeks for more platform releases of p3p and p4g. I'm gonna have to wait till February to get P3P but I do hope this will be the time I finally beat it.
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Jan 8, 2023 03:47
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FWIW the whole Yoshizawa phone thing is not a dropped plot point. It's important because if her phone was working properly, then after she accidentally stumbles into Maruki's palace by saying all the keywords along with Joker they could have figured out whose palace it was way earlier by checking the nav history, but her phone glitches out after the first visit and the info isn't available.
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Jan 8, 2023 04:50
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Ytlaya posted:Maruki seems to have a bigger contrast than most between the English and Japanese dub (which is a bit of an exception to the norm, since the English dubs for Persona games are usually about as close to identical as you can imagine coming from two different speakers in different languages). They have similar voices, but the delivery is sometimes very different. English Maruki comes off as a lot more confident/"suave" (and kind of insincere/condescending when he's trying to act awkward) when he speaks, while JP Maruki is sort of "scatter-brained but well-meaning" (which makes there be more of a noticeable contrast when you interact with him in the events of the third semester - before that point he's still not sure how to achieve what he wants to achieve, but once he does (with the help of Joker mentioning Mementos) he becomes far more confident/driven). huh? I found Maruki incredibly scatter-brained but well-meaning when I played the game in English. Not confident or suave at all.
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Jan 8, 2023 05:24
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Yeah, to be clear, I'm saying Kametz absolutely nailed the performance; I would have found Maruki to come off as insincere or grating if his VA had been weaker, but Kametz sells that this guy is just awkward and earnest.
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Jan 8, 2023 06:00
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Sydin posted:FWIW the whole Yoshizawa phone thing is not a dropped plot point. It's important because if her phone was working properly, then after she accidentally stumbles into Maruki's palace by saying all the keywords along with Joker they could have figured out whose palace it was way earlier by checking the nav history, but her phone glitches out after the first visit and the info isn't available. I don't think that's correct - this dialogue shows that the palace owner's name was censored so Maruki appears to have been trying to hide his presence. Further dialogue later on once they're deep into the palace shows Maruki having to be convinced to reveal himself, which lends credence to the theory he was trying to hide at first.
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Jan 8, 2023 15:18
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anakha posted:I don't think that's correct - this dialogue shows that the palace owner's name was censored so Maruki appears to have been trying to hide his presence. Further dialogue later on once they're deep into the palace shows Maruki having to be convinced to reveal himself, which lends credence to the theory he was trying to hide at first. That makes sense. Most people don't know they have a palace, Shido definitely does know and has taken various defensive measures to make it more formidable to stop Akechi from just blitzing it and murdering him, while Maruki knows and takes measures to obscure its identity because he doesn't want the Phantom Thieves chancing across it and getting curious. If you know your cognitive psience you can mess around with your own cognitive world in all kinds of interesting ways it seems like. Honestly that makes Sae kind of interesting in that her shadow seems so self aware about what's going on and taking her own measures to stall out the thieves and force them into playing things her way. Compared to Kamoshida's shadow who's just a hedonistic tyrant with no self awareness or introspection about his palace, so he just blindly lashes out at intruders.
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Jan 8, 2023 15:30
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anakha posted:I don't think that's correct - this dialogue shows that the palace owner's name was censored so Maruki appears to have been trying to hide his presence. Further dialogue later on once they're deep into the palace shows Maruki having to be convinced to reveal himself, which lends credence to the theory he was trying to hide at first. That's in the third semester though, after Maruki has fully awakened to his power and starts actively using his palace to manipulate the masses. Prior to Mementos merging with reality briefly during the Yaldy fight Maruki doesn't fixed idea of the metaverse and doesn't seem to realize he has a palace or even a persona: he knows he can change the cognition of individuals and that it's somehow cognitive psience related but that's about it. He wouldn't have even known he had a palace whose name he should censor when Joker and Yoshizawa first stumble into it. There's a line of dialogue after you first get out of the palace with Yoshizawa where Morgana is all "oh hey check the nav let's find out what all this is about" at which point she pulls her phone out and goes "whoops it's dead."
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Jan 8, 2023 20:29
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Man this game just keeps going, doesn't it? I take it I am in the Royal content now but I've said "okay THIS must be the last fight of the game" more than a few times in the past couple hours.
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Jan 9, 2023 02:37
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It's not an exaggeration when people call it a 120 hour game. it owns
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Jan 9, 2023 02:41
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I was fairly lukewarm on the Royal content overall but as expected of this particular game the way they present the lead-in to the final showdown was stylish as hell Each calling card gets more and more grandiose until the Shido calling card ends up with Futaba using her computer superpowers to do a nation-wide broadcast intrusion. Then you get to Royal and it's just a dark and silent Leblanc, Maruki comes in and you calmly discuss your respective viewpoints (also Akechi is possibly involved) and come to the regrettable conclusion that your differences in ideals will have to be settled in combat. Then almost as an afterthought Joker tosses a calling card across the table, Maruki nods and leaves. Then you enter the palace for the final battle and they needle-drop I Believe. God drat. The pacing definitely has its issues but that hundred-hour long slow burn really adds a lot of impact in all the right places. Sapozhnik fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 05:03
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Sydin posted:That's in the third semester though, after Maruki has fully awakened to his power and starts actively using his palace to manipulate the masses. Prior to Mementos merging with reality briefly during the Yaldy fight Maruki doesn't fixed idea of the metaverse and doesn't seem to realize he has a palace or even a persona: he knows he can change the cognition of individuals and that it's somehow cognitive psience related but that's about it. He wouldn't have even known he had a palace whose name he should censor when Joker and Yoshizawa first stumble into it. There's a line of dialogue after you first get out of the palace with Yoshizawa where Morgana is all "oh hey check the nav let's find out what all this is about" at which point she pulls her phone out and goes "whoops it's dead." And the issue we were talking about is that the glitchy phone issue never leads to a conclusion. The phone dying could have been easily explained as running out of battery because she was too distracted/stressed to charge it, without having a whole-rear end running plot point of the phone having issues. And if that's where the phone issue was supposed to lead up to, why didn't they just check on the palace the following day when the phone was (presumably) recharged? It's yet another plot hole that never gets looked into or closed out satisfactorily just like the phone issue itself.
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Jan 9, 2023 06:01
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Played through P5R twice in 2020, for maybe silly reasons I tripled up and got it for Switch and PC and don't really regret it. I did kind of forget how lovely the Okamura battle could be if you aren't really prepped well for it. I don't think the pacing is too bad if you want to get all the various stats and confidants up, if anything the Royal version of the game feels a tiny bit easier since you can clear each palace in the first run if you are efficient and load up a few SP items. It leaves you all those long stretches of days to get stats/confidants/momentos stuff done.
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Jan 9, 2023 06:10
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anakha posted:And the issue we were talking about is that the glitchy phone issue never leads to a conclusion. The phone dying could have been easily explained as running out of battery because she was too distracted/stressed to charge it, without having a whole-rear end running plot point of the phone having issues. I think the overarching issue with the Odaiba palace was... okay, there's a palace here. So what? Futaba had a palace and she wasn't hurting anybody. The team stresses a lot about whether they really ought to be going after a person who has some particular distortion and generally need a lot of convincing to go after each target. It makes sense in-story that they stumbled across a palace but didn't think it worth investigating immediately. Joker not mentioning it to the rest of the squad did seem a bit sketchy but Yoshizawa did have a bunch of stuff going on at the time and so did the rest of the squad, it probably wasn't a good time to drag everybody else in for a bunch of reasons.
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Jan 9, 2023 06:34
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Sapozhnik posted:I think the overarching issue with the Odaiba palace was... okay, there's a palace here. So what? Futaba had a palace and she wasn't hurting anybody. The team stresses a lot about whether they really ought to be going after a person who has some particular distortion and generally need a lot of convincing to go after each target. It makes sense in-story that they stumbled across a palace but didn't think it worth investigating immediately. Joker not mentioning it to the rest of the squad did seem a bit sketchy but Yoshizawa did have a bunch of stuff going on at the time and so did the rest of the squad, it probably wasn't a good time to drag everybody else in for a bunch of reasons. I think the main issue there is that Joker and Morgana just drop the topic abruptly and don't discuss it further. Even something like 'oh poo poo, we've been so busy with Okumura's stuff that we forgot to bring up this palace we just discovered' would have been better than the whole lotta nothing we got. Taking meta-knowledge out of it, it also doesn't make sense to automatically assume Sumi needed to be with them for further investigations. Maybe they get the palace info from her but otherwise, what about the events of Oct 3rd from their perspective would hint around her being associated with that palace? For all they knew, she just stumbled into it by accident.
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Jan 9, 2023 06:54
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anakha posted:And the issue we were talking about is that the glitchy phone issue never leads to a conclusion. The phone dying could have been easily explained as running out of battery because she was too distracted/stressed to charge it, without having a whole-rear end running plot point of the phone having issues. Exactly, it's basically Checkov's Cracked Screen except it doesn't shatter in the third act as is required by law.
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Jan 9, 2023 14:13
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I still haven't completed the Royal content yet but felt pretty spent and ready for things to wrap up after shooting god in the face. I've been lukewarm on it so far but I think it's mostly because the climax of the game was so goddamn epic and conclusive that anything coming after it feels especially tacked on. I still think this is now one of the best games I've ever played, just kinda wish the Royal content was integrated better.
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Jan 9, 2023 16:46
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explosivo posted:I still haven't completed the Royal content yet but felt pretty spent and ready for things to wrap up after shooting god in the face. I've been lukewarm on it so far but I think it's mostly because the climax of the game was so goddamn epic and conclusive that anything coming after it feels especially tacked on. I still think this is now one of the best games I've ever played, just kinda wish the Royal content was integrated better. I loved Royal just because it gave me more of what I craved and Akechi with no fucks to give is his best incarnation but yeah the base game really does end perfectly.
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Jan 9, 2023 18:07
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explosivo posted:I still haven't completed the Royal content yet but felt pretty spent and ready for things to wrap up after shooting god in the face. I've been lukewarm on it so far but I think it's mostly because the climax of the game was so goddamn epic and conclusive that anything coming after it feels especially tacked on. I still think this is now one of the best games I've ever played, just kinda wish the Royal content was integrated better. The only thing that could have made that scene better IMO was one more line: Yaldabaoth: PREPOSTEROUS! You dare rob the people's wishes!? Joker: No. Just yours. Our Beginning as the BGM was just 
anakha fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 18:12
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Ehh. The original ending was extremely cringe imo. I'm not going to pretend that these games are particularly high-brow works of art or whatever, but it is a bit of a jarring tonal shift to go from the beginning of the game with Shiho getting raped and attempting suicide to an ending scene that feels like it's straight out of Dragon Ball Z with the whole of Tokyo holding hands and cheering for the Phantom Thieves. It could have worked if the game went for a more Metal Gear Rising sort of tone, but that's not what most of the game had been doing up until that point.
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Jan 9, 2023 18:21
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I feel like the final palace would've improved if we had like needed 2 letters and then everything would be great and rattled mazes should've been like once only.
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Jan 10, 2023 01:11
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Okay so now that I saved Yoshizawa and it's been revealed I have another 25 days to gently caress around and for all intents and purposes the whole crew is here I'm all the way back in for another go-around. I thought I was closer to the end and was really expecting it to be entirely based around Akechi/Yoshizawa/Maruki with it ending after the palace. It was a genuine "oh thank god" moment when the crew ran in during the Yoshizawa fight. "Get the gently caress out of the lineup Akechi we have business to do" explosivo fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Jan 10, 2023 |
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Jan 10, 2023 03:02
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