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i fly airplanes
Sep 6, 2010


I STOLE A PIE FROM ESTELLE GETTY

i say swears online posted:

lima's going to be like 99% fine, i would even think cuzco is okay for tourists

Saw this come up on the news: apparently trains have stopped running up to Machu Picchu and there are some stranded tourists

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/machu-picchu-tourists-stranded-amid-protests

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Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep
Well I know that in the poster case the trip was already planned and paid for but really inst the best idea to be a tourist in a country with a messy coup ongoing

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

i fly airplanes posted:

Saw this come up on the news: apparently trains have stopped running up to Machu Picchu and there are some stranded tourists

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/machu-picchu-tourists-stranded-amid-protests
Yeah like major city? Ok not the best place to go during a coup, but I can see most tourists being fine if they have their head on straight.

But going out to remote tourist locations? Yeah probs not the best time to do such a thing.

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

mind the walrus posted:

Yeah like major city? Ok not the best place to go during a coup, but I can see most tourists being fine if they have their head on straight.

But going out to remote tourist locations? Yeah probs not the best time to do such a thing.

right, Machu Picchu is like 100km from cuzco along some of the most rugged terrain in the world. every km away from a city relies on increasingly fragile infrastructure with many points for failure

Marenghi
Oct 16, 2008

Don't trust the liberals,
they will betray you
https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1604243799282155521

For what was presented as slam dunk, populary supported coup. It sure is leading to a lot of unrest.

Sephyr
Aug 28, 2012

Marenghi posted:

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1604243799282155521

For what was presented as slam dunk, populary supported coup. It sure is leading to a lot of unrest.

Just because they didn't really care for Castillo, doesn't mean they like the clowns that took over and not suddenly act like they were elected in a landslide.

Marenghi
Oct 16, 2008

Don't trust the liberals,
they will betray you
So the people want an election and the coup government want to use this opportunity to seize power

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Marenghi posted:

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1604243799282155521

For what was presented as slam dunk, populary supported coup. It sure is leading to a lot of unrest.

The president was imprached wasn't he? Hardly a coup.

Owling Howl
Jul 17, 2019

Marenghi posted:

So the people want an election and the coup government want to use this opportunity to seize power

Some members of congress are blocking Boluarte's call for early elections

Washington Post posted:

The push for an early election was blocked by both far-right lawmakers who led the push to oust Castillo and their far-left counterparts, who still support the former president. That alliance has become a feature of Peruvian politics over the past 17 months, as the two sides found common ground in blocking anticorruption measures.

Maybe Boluarte should just resign

Washington Post posted:

Under the constitution, she would be replaced by the speaker of Congress, currently José Williams, a conservative former general who would be anathema to most of the demonstrators. Boluarte’s resignation would also preempt any attempt at political reform to ensure that the next election yields more sustainable results.

So ehh...

Marenghi
Oct 16, 2008

Don't trust the liberals,
they will betray you
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1606131340063170562

Thus ends the US's Guaido experiment.

How long until the Bank of England returns access to Venezuelan gold reserves.

Quixzlizx
Jan 7, 2007
Are there any sources that describe the imperialist economic and/or geopolitical bonanza that the US would gain from invading and occupying Haiti in 2023?

Like, at least with the Iraq War people could chant "NO BLOOD FOR OIL" as a fun slogan even if the actual reasons were more insidious than invading to load up all the oil and ship it back to the US.

But at this point, what economic or geopolitical profit would the American Empire be squeezing out of a failed warlord state with a major intervention, even if you assume all of Haiti's problems were directly and unilaterally caused by them in the first place?

Edit: And just to make it clear, I don't believe sending troops to a country to "fix" it is a good idea, I'm just wondering which shadowy capitalist cabal will be making out like bandits once the US kicks rear end and takes names. I don't think Chiquita has the same pull nowadays.

Quixzlizx fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Dec 27, 2022

i fly airplanes
Sep 6, 2010


I STOLE A PIE FROM ESTELLE GETTY
Your questioning is already uh, on a pretty slanted note.

But no, the US gains not much from invading the poorest country in North America.

The objective is to stop the situation from Haiti devolving into a mass migrant crisis, moreso than it already is.

Viewing Haiti as solely some prize to be exploited (or not) is deeply reductionist and simplistic.

This is akin to some people trying to paint Afghanistan as some trove of natural resources to explain the invasions.

SexyBlindfold
Apr 24, 2008
i dont care how much probation i get capital letters are for squares hehe im so laid back an nice please read my low effort shitposts about the arab spring

thanxs!!!
That but sometimes it can also be as dumb as "I bet we can score an easy foreign policy W on this one"

Plastic_Gargoyle
Aug 3, 2007

Quixzlizx posted:

Are there any sources that describe the imperialist economic and/or geopolitical bonanza that the US would gain from invading and occupying Haiti in 2023?

Like, at least with the Iraq War people could chant "NO BLOOD FOR OIL" as a fun slogan even if the actual reasons were more insidious than invading to load up all the oil and ship it back to the US.

But at this point, what economic or geopolitical profit would the American Empire be squeezing out of a failed warlord state with a major intervention, even if you assume all of Haiti's problems were directly and unilaterally caused by them in the first place?

Edit: And just to make it clear, I don't believe sending troops to a country to "fix" it is a good idea, I'm just wondering which shadowy capitalist cabal will be making out like bandits once the US kicks rear end and takes names. I don't think Chiquita has the same pull nowadays.

There is no one in positions of power in the US government who would suggest something this stupid.

Where exactly did you get this fever dream of a notion from?

Edit: you are suggesting that, at the same time as it funds Ukrainian attempts to fight off Russian imperial aggression, the US would do literally exactly the same thing to another country

Badger of Basra
Jul 26, 2007

He probably got the notion from all the people in this thread saying the US wants to invade Haiti

Quixzlizx
Jan 7, 2007
I thought it was obvious it was a facetious response to all of the conspiratorial posts upthread when I added "fun slogan" and the Chiquita reference, but I guess Poe's law strikes again. Although I do genuinely agree with them that the US shouldn't be sending troops there, since the existing track record is pretty terrible.

And I am genuinely curious about any sources people have regarding the motivations for the US to invade Haiti for mercantilism reasons that aren't Russia Today or tankie Twitter accounts. There's not even the Cold War ideological reason that Haiti is being overrun by commies.

Marenghi
Oct 16, 2008

Don't trust the liberals,
they will betray you

Quixzlizx posted:

Are there any sources that describe the imperialist economic and/or geopolitical bonanza that the US would gain from invading and occupying Haiti in 2023?

Like, at least with the Iraq War people could chant "NO BLOOD FOR OIL" as a fun slogan even if the actual reasons were more insidious than invading to load up all the oil and ship it back to the US.

But at this point, what economic or geopolitical profit would the American Empire be squeezing out of a failed warlord state with a major intervention, even if you assume all of Haiti's problems were directly and unilaterally caused by them in the first place?

Edit: And just to make it clear, I don't believe sending troops to a country to "fix" it is a good idea, I'm just wondering which shadowy capitalist cabal will be making out like bandits once the US kicks rear end and takes names. I don't think Chiquita has the same pull nowadays.

They retain the same imperial interests that lead to the US involved 2004 coup against the democraticaly elected leader of the day. Which are essentially the same geopolitical reasons for all US interference in the Carribean. They do not want a leftist Haiti which becomes aligned with Cuba or Venuezula. They view the carribean and latin america et al as their backyard which is within their right to keep the states of the region under US hegemony.

Then there's Chevron and Exxon as the 2 major suppliers of oil to Haiti, and have documented requests to US in the past to scupper Haitian deals made with Venuzula for oil.

There's also the textile industry. 90% of Haitian exports are from that industry. Haiti has free trade zones where factories produce textiles for the US market paying Haitian minumum wage rates of less than a dollar an hour. Fruit of the Loom, Hanes, Levi Strauss, Disney and many other US companies operate out of the region where wages are less than US prison labour wages. The US has interfered to prevent minumum wage increases in the country and having a puppet government aids them in preventing such changes.

The wikileaks cable leaks showed how American interests in the country relate to those 3 points. https://www.coha.org/wikileaks-cables-show-haiti-as-pawn-in-u-s-foreign-policy/

And a quick article detailing the history of how the US developed Haitian industry around providing cheap clothing for US companies.
http://opiniojuris.org/2022/04/12/unfolding-haitis-garment-industry-decades-of-unaccountable-foreign-interference/

Also Haiti does appear to have vast untapped resources in gold, copper, and silver, which US companies have tried to develop but political instability has always been the biggest obstacle to that.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2012/may/30/haiti-gold-mining

And there's gold old fashioned privatisation of the nation. There's always money to be made through imperialism by forcing privatisation.
https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2012/01/07/open-for-business

Marenghi fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Dec 27, 2022

Quixzlizx
Jan 7, 2007

Marenghi posted:

They retain the same imperial interests that lead to the US involved 2004 coup against the democraticaly elected leader of the day. Which are essentially the same geopolitical reasons for all US interference in the Carribean. They do not want a leftist Haiti which becomes aligned with Cuba or Venuezula. They view the carribean and latin america et al as their backyard which is within their right to keep the states of the region under US hegemony.

Then there's Chevron and Exxon as the 2 major suppliers of oil to Haiti, and have documented requests to US in the past to scupper Haitian deals made with Venuzula for oil.

There's also the textile industry. 90% of Haitian exports are from that industry. Haiti has free trade zones where factories produce textiles for the US market paying Haitian minumum wage rates of less than a dollar an hour. Fruit of the Loom, Hanes, Levi Strauss, Disney and many other US companies operate out of the region where wages are less than US prison labour wages. The US has interfered to prevent minumum wage increases in the country and having a puppet government aids them in preventing such changes.

The wikileaks cable leaks showed how American interests in the country relate to those 3 points. https://www.coha.org/wikileaks-cables-show-haiti-as-pawn-in-u-s-foreign-policy/

And a quick article detailing the history of how the US developed Haitian industry around providing cheap clothing for US companies.
http://opiniojuris.org/2022/04/12/unfolding-haitis-garment-industry-decades-of-unaccountable-foreign-interference/

Also Haiti does appear to have vast untapped resources in gold, copper, and silver, which US companies have tried to develop but political instability has always been the biggest obstacle to that.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2012/may/30/haiti-gold-mining

And there's gold old fashioned privatisation of the nation. There's always money to be made through imperialism by forcing privatisation.
https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2012/01/07/open-for-business

Thank you for providing these links, which do explain America's business interests in Haiti. I am not surprised that American diplomats pressure weaker governments to further American interests at the expense of their own people, but I don't think Fruit of the Loom has the political juice to sponsor the military occupation of the country.

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

Quixzlizx posted:

Thank you for providing these links, which do explain America's business interests in Haiti. I am not surprised that American diplomats pressure weaker governments to further American interests at the expense of their own people, but I don't think Fruit of the Loom has the political juice to sponsor the military occupation of the country.

it's also a refugee problem, which gets nearby governments complaining. when mexico co-signed the UN resolution, haitians seeking asylum in mexico outnumbered hondurans and salvadorenos. the US-friendly government of the dominican republic is very unhappy about its giant haitian population and very much wishes they'd disappear

textile companies do control the politics of the CNMI but that's a much smaller case study and an explicit US territory where they get their highly prestigious "made in USA" tags

edit the mariana islands stuff is super out of date lol, looks like they started earning the federal minimum wage and all the factories closed

i say swears online fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Dec 27, 2022

achillesforever6
Apr 23, 2012

psst you wanna do a communism?
https://twitter.com/MacheteyMate/status/1608387185358831617
:sickos:

Marenghi
Oct 16, 2008

Don't trust the liberals,
they will betray you
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1608992664879333376

It's official. Guaido is no longer interim president of Venuezula. This should remove any remaining legal basis for Bank of England denying the current Maduro government access to their own countries gold reserves.

SixFigureSandwich
Oct 30, 2004
Exciting Lemon
Bolsonaro fled to- sorry, decided to vacation for a while in Florida

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Enjoy every sandwich.

Smellrose

SixFigureSandwich posted:

Bolsonaro fled to- sorry, decided to vacation for a while in Florida

Never thought I'd say it, but Florida doesn't deserve this.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

Florida deals with worse turds on the daily.

Marenghi posted:

It's official. Guaido is no longer interim president of Venuezula. This should remove any remaining legal basis for Bank of England denying the current Maduro government access to their own countries gold reserves.

In theory the freezing of Venezuela's reserves was supposed to be more about not recognizing Maduro as legitimate rather than as a specific material aid for Guaido, even though it could've been used as that. Not really sure what in particular what kind of negotiations would change England's mind.

But also the election that various members of the international community declared as illegitimate was back in 2018, and I think Venezuela is supposed to have 5 year terms, so the country's due for another election anyways. Maybe depending on how that goes things will change.

kliras
Mar 27, 2021
congress, presidential palace, and supreme court being stormed by what i can only assume are bolsonaro supporters right now

https://twitter.com/tomphillipsin/status/1612165514654285824

there's a thread for an overview here

https://twitter.com/davidrkadler/status/1612152507727499265

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

I really don't understand what's going on here and what the goals are, since Bolsonaro apparently publicly refused to challenge the election and didn't do anything to put himself in a position to take advantage of an insurrection.

I don't think anyone "important" in the Brazilian government is at risk, since Lula isn't in town and their congress wasn't in session. Just some buildings getting smashed. I feel like even if there's corruption in the courts, the judiciary is probably going to be furious at their stuff getting smashed as well.

It seems very dumb.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa
It's ironic how so many are carrying Brazilian flags when they clearly oppose order and progress.

Love Rat
Jan 15, 2008

I've made a psycho call to the woman I love, I've kicked a dog to death, and now I'm going to pepper spray an acquaintance. Something... I mean, what's happened to me?
I hope they don't smash too much. I love those modernist beauties.

Negostrike
Aug 15, 2015


I know right? Democracy can go get hosed but let the Niemeyers intact pretty please.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa
You can't spell democracy without starting by demolition!

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

https://twitter.com/BrNewsUpdate/status/1612158302707933189

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

Personally I keep on thinking on how I don't like the buildings' aesthetics. I dunno, all glass doesn't seem right to me for a big government building, and maybe put it on a hill instead of a wide open empty plain.

https://twitter.com/davidrkadler/status/1612184182507053056

Charliegrs
Aug 10, 2009

kliras posted:

congress, presidential palace, and supreme court being stormed by what i can only assume are bolsonaro supporters right now

https://twitter.com/tomphillipsin/status/1612165514654285824

Is this the kind of thing where the security forces are there, they just aren't in uniform and they are the ones doing the ransacking?

Badger of Basra
Jul 26, 2007

https://twitter.com/eixopolitico/status/1612174683683651585

doesn't look like it

kliras
Mar 27, 2021
official lula comments in this thread: sounds like the response you'd wanna hear

https://twitter.com/apagliar/status/1612191224902950916

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

Lula took a while but he's started to put out statements.

https://twitter.com/LulaOficial/status/1612190910325964801

One US government politician getting a start on calling for action against Bolsonaro as well. I don't expect he'll get safe refuge if that was what he was hoping for.

https://twitter.com/JoaquinCastrotx/status/1612190346074808320?cxt=HHwWgIDTgf-k098sAAAA

Charliegrs posted:

Is this the kind of thing where the security forces are there, they just aren't in uniform and they are the ones doing the ransacking?

I don't really have the full picture, but it seems like it was a mixed bag with some cops for and some against.

https://twitter.com/davidrkadler/status/1612154312582651904
https://twitter.com/davidrkadler/status/1612164424055283712
https://twitter.com/davidrkadler/status/1612170270122418176

presumably this is one of many things that will get sorted out later.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009

Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

kliras posted:

official lula comments in this thread: sounds like the response you'd wanna hear

https://twitter.com/apagliar/status/1612191224902950916

https://twitter.com/apagliar/status/1612192174074130436
https://twitter.com/apagliar/status/1612194670016069632

Charliegrs
Aug 10, 2009
Is Bolsonaro still in Florida?

Vintersorg
Mar 3, 2004

President of
the Brendan Fraser
Fan Club



Rumours that Bannon helped organize this.

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i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

https://twitter.com/YWNReporter/status/1612206539464376320

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