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Len posted:Apparently originally it did, you would have your inventory and map and stuff right on the WiiU tablet but early in development they removed it because "it interfered with the gameplay" and probably not at all to make the wiiu and switch versions equal Oh man, I forgot about that. It was great for the Wind Waker inventory, and it would've helped me a lot with some of the weapon and power switching I sometimes struggle with on the fly in BotW. I miss that console, I really loved the extra handheld screen when games utilized it well.
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Jan 9, 2023 01:36
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durability in dark souls 2 was a fun mechanic when you could inflict it on others invading with a bag full of acid pots to throw and and a prepared spell list full of acid breath and breaking n00bs' stuff (nothing permanently breaks, they just have to warp back to town and pay the blacksmith to unfuck it) e: there were a few "meta" rings like the Third Dragon Ring that were intentionally balanced with way lower than normal durability too so it had some funny use in actual pvp nail a guy in heavy armor with an acid pot, hear a loud breaking noise, and then all of a sudden he can't dodgeroll anymore because he was relying on the equip load bonus from that fragile-rear end ring RPATDO_LAMD has a new favorite as of 02:26 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 02:24
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Nuebot posted:Isn't it almost the same as it was in 3, though? Which is to say the penalties from using a low durability weapon, when most weapons you find start with low durability, make everything feel like trash and disincentivize ever actually trying anything but whatever you already have and have been maintaining. NV loosened the restrictions on what could be used to repair something, and let you repair something to full regardless of what your skill was (so skill just made things more efficient).
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Jan 9, 2023 03:13
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:durability in dark souls 2 was a fun mechanic when you could inflict it on others Incidentally, Morrowind and Oblivion also had spells that degraded enemy weapons and armor. I can't speak for Morrowind, but in Oblivion it was hilarious. See, that's another way to make equipment breaking better: make it a weapon to inflict on others.
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Jan 9, 2023 04:05
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NV also added a "buffer" where performance wasn't affected until the condition dropped below 75% or so. Which is a nice mechanical addition and also thematically reflects the difference between New Vegas and Fallout 3: in one the whole setting is breaking down and dying and everything you pick up starts to degrade from the moment you get it, in the other your equipment lasts longer and is easier to maintain which reflects how in that setting it isn't a daily ordeal just to survive
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Jan 9, 2023 04:05
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Death Stranding is a master class in "weapon" durability, and shows off how neat of a concept it can be if you put in a pin into it and say "this horseshit is going to be a major focus of the moment-to-moment gameplay loop and it is imperative we make it good" you can just as easily have the conditions of something get worse and worse because you spent too much time trying to move cautiously through a Timefall and BT-laden area as you can have them get worse by eating complete poo poo on the dirtbike and careening down a rocky hill that you shouldn't have tried to speed across, but as long as you don't hugely damage the actual things inside the cases you can always patch them up with a bit of repair spray and keep on trucking. then some other things are hugely fragile and need to be treated much more delicately, or some people care more about the quality of the items than the speed that you deliver them or vice/versa so there's always reason to keep track of durability on your items but you don't need to treat every Private Room like it's time to pay the repair-spray tax to finish deliveries. I haven't played enough yet to really test things out like seeing if you can fabricate a dozen PCCs and stack them up on your back to see if the ones further up on the stack have their condition degrade faster/you can rotate the stuff on your back so that the more damaged stuff on the top gets less wear and tear the further down you put it, but that's exactly the kind of insane attention to detail I would expect in a Kojima game so I'm going to assume it's true until I prove myself wrong when I get bored after work this week
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Jan 9, 2023 04:53
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quote is not edit god dammit
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Jan 9, 2023 04:54
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Agents are GO! posted:I think the BotW Durability is hilarious in how angry it makes nearly everyone, but actually makes the game more fun if you embrace it. It's just that it goes against the ingrained video game habits and preferences of just about everyone - people want to find something that works and stick to it, not constantly be experimenting with new equipment. Actually what I wanted was to be able to get through a fight without needing to constantly pause the game and rifle through my inventory for the next sword each time one breaks. Also, to at least slightly care about the loot I'm getting out of chests instead of getting yet another disposable sword. I don't recall ever being close to actually running out of weapons, so it's not like the durability added some kind of challenge or made me make hard decisions about how to approach a fight; it was just a constant UI annoyance.
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Jan 9, 2023 05:06
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Triarii posted:Actually what I wanted was to be able to get through a fight without needing to constantly pause the game and rifle through my inventory for the next sword each time one breaks. Also, to at least slightly care about the loot I'm getting out of chests instead of getting yet another disposable sword. I don't recall ever being close to actually running out of weapons, so it's not like the durability added some kind of challenge or made me make hard decisions about how to approach a fight; it was just a constant UI annoyance. I don't think I've ever broken multiple weapons in one fight. Maybe the final boss? I think you're playing the game horribly wrong if this is happening to you
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Jan 9, 2023 05:35
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It's been some years so I'm hazy on details but I definitely recall fights where I would burn through a whole string of weapons just killing a single enemy like I was in a fuckin backyard wrestling match breaking fluorescent light tubes over a guy's head
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Jan 9, 2023 05:51
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BotW always got a pass from me because it's weapon durability doesn't mean anything, you quickly replace any broken weapons with other cool and good stuff, and all the exploration rewards are actually the shrines, armors, fast travel points, korok seeds for upgrading weapon inventory, and neat items you can make a note of to come back and restock on later I do hate the chore of having to buy arrows if you're not constantly picking them up off of bokoblins, and pausing to use items, that's one thing Fenyx got right with the press-and-hold for stamina and health.
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Jan 9, 2023 05:53
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Cleretic posted:I've said it a lot of times before, but weapon durability is fine if there's a purpose to it being there. BotW uses it to encourage diversity of playstyle, in Oblivion it was your limiter on early enchanted weapons. In Minecraft it's the thing that forces you to keep exploring. I don't care about whether a design has a reason, I care about whether I enjoy it.
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Jan 9, 2023 06:54
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bawk posted:BotW always got a pass from me because it's weapon durability doesn't mean anything, you quickly replace any broken weapons with other cool and good stuff, and all the exploration rewards are actually the shrines, armors, fast travel points, korok seeds for upgrading weapon inventory, and neat items you can make a note of to come back and restock on later It runs up against gamers' instinct to never use any consumables ever, because "what if I need it?".
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Jan 9, 2023 08:25
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In Western RPGs like Pillars of Eternity or even Fallout 3 or whatever, my thing about using consumables was never "what if I need this frost resist potion/Med-X later" but "I can't be assed to open up my inventory and search through all the random bullshit I have when I could just heal instead."
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Jan 9, 2023 09:24
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Red Minjo posted:In Western RPGs like Pillars of Eternity or even Fallout 3 or whatever, my thing about using consumables was never "what if I need this frost resist potion/Med-X later" but "I can't be assed to open up my inventory and search through all the random bullshit I have when I could just heal instead." It's also basically the player-targeting equivalent to "Death is the best status effect to inflict": Healing is universal and predictable, many defensive status effects aren't. Yes, you could apply a buff that will e.g. reduce incoming frost damage by 50% for five rounds. Now it's a question of how often the character in question will actually be hit with frost damage and with how much, so it's difficult to tell just how much damage it will prevent over its duration. Meanwhile good old Greater Heal will restore 50 hitpoints every single time. Plus of course there's always the issue that instead of applying a defensive buff you could be dealing damage instead, which could kill an enemy a round or two earlier, which in turn may just prevent more incoming damage overall.
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Jan 9, 2023 10:09
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A lot of it comes down to how the game communicates information. If it's clear how effective a consumable will be and how frequently it can be replenished then people are more likely to use it. In a game like XCOM you know exactly how much damage a rocket will do and when you get more. Compare that to something like firebombs in Dark Souls, which are easier to overlook because you don't know how much damage they'll do or how easily you'll get them.
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Jan 9, 2023 10:20
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The combination of "you need to experiment with things to learn how they work" and "you get three of these as a pickup, good luck on where or if you'll get more" is pretty bad yeah
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Jan 9, 2023 10:45
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That's one thing that really let Witcher stand out. Use what you need to and it (pretty much all) gets replenished when you sleep
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Jan 9, 2023 11:22
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I liked the weapon durability in far cry 2 
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Jan 9, 2023 12:36
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tight aspirations posted:I liked the weapon durability in far cry 2 There's something funny about your firearm breaking or misfiring in games when it happens when you least expect it.
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Jan 9, 2023 13:31
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WaltherFeng posted:There's something funny about your firearm breaking or misfiring in games when it happens when you least expect it. The first time firing an RPG-7 in that game, it plopped onto the ground and went in little fiery circles as I stared at it like an idiot. The explosion didn't kill me. No, it was the fire lit by the RPG's back blast that I stumbled into backwards that killed me. 10/10
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Jan 9, 2023 13:55
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I finished the main story of Control and realized one of the DLCs is focused on Alan Wake which I never played, so I decided it's maybe a good idea to play that game now. The camera and controls are really annoying where I always have to look and aim a bit to the right for him not to veer off to the left.
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Jan 9, 2023 14:33
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I'm playing through Spyro Reignited on PC with my kid and while 1 and 2 were fun and mostly quick to 100% (120 for Spyro 1, she was blown away when I told her we weren't done), 3 is starting to become a chore. It feels like comparatively, Spyro 3 seems really buggy and poorly optimized. I've had characters get stuck on nothing, situations that require a character to be in a certain spot hosed up because of a pixel, and don't even get me started on the skateboarding poo poo. If I wanted Tony Hawk I'd play Tony Hawk. Overall we're something like 40% in and I don't know if I have it in me to 117% it.
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Jan 9, 2023 14:44
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Philippe posted:It runs up against gamers' instinct to never use any consumables ever, because "what if I need it?". this ruled with eventide island off the east coast of the continent in BOTW because i crafted a bunch of stamina and health elixirs/grabbed a bunch of weapons so I could glide out to the island, all stocked up and ready to figure out what the puzzle would be on this island waaaaay out in the middle of nowhere lol
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Jan 9, 2023 15:10
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I always thought the weapon durability system was a clever solution to a game design problem, namely "What do we do with all the poo poo in the world?". Every enemy you kill drops all their armor and gear, and it's all pretty useless, since it's not worth dragging around and selling, and you can't wear it all yourself. The repair system gives value to a lot of that stuff by letting the player merge it into their own gear to repair it. Of course, it has a bunch of issues as well, and I don't really miss it in FO4, but it was a neat idea! The most pointless durability system was the one in the Divinity Original Sin games, where any character with a single point in blacksmithing and a repair hammer could repair any item to max HP for free. You could even repair items in combat when the repairer wasn't even anywhere near the person using the item.
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Jan 9, 2023 15:24
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Gerblyn posted:I always thought the weapon durability system was a clever solution to a game design problem, namely "What do we do with all the poo poo in the world?". Every enemy you kill drops all their armor and gear, and it's all pretty useless, since it's not worth dragging around and selling, and you can't wear it all yourself. The repair system gives value to a lot of that stuff by letting the player merge it into their own gear to repair it. Of course, it has a bunch of issues as well, and I don't really miss it in FO4, but it was a neat idea! My friends and I have been playing D:OS2 for dozens of hours and we just had our first piece of equipment break since we started the game. Such a pointless addition.
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Jan 9, 2023 15:34
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Speaking of durability systems, in Valheim the durability at least serves a fairly direct purpose. Durability on tools and weapons decreases fairly quickly (fully mining a copper deposit will deplete your starter pick, for example), but you can instantly repair them for free at the appropriate crafting benches. So there's at least a fairly clear intent behind it: It's supposed to force the player back to their base in regular intervals, and to encourage them to build smaller outposts in suitable locations. It also has a bit of a side effect in making the base feel more like a safe home you regularly return to, and making going out to gather resources feel like temporary excursion. I'm still not sure if it's actually worth the annoyance, but at least I can appreciate there being a theoretical point to it.
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Jan 9, 2023 18:38
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Perestroika posted:I'm still not sure if it's actually worth the annoyance, but at least I can appreciate there being a theoretical point to it. Valheim.txt Almost all of Valheim seems to be designed as "this makes sense on a first pass/logical sense" without ever be revisited with the question "is this fun/interesting/not loving infuriating garbage"
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Jan 9, 2023 19:17
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When it comes to durability systems, I've done a lot of soul searching on the topic (that's the kind of goon I am). There are a ton of ways to do it very wrong and only a scant few that end up being a good thing for the subject game. Even then, like in BotW, a great deal of people don't gel with the idea and end up hating it. On the other side, I can't think of any game that doesn't have durability that would be improved by its addition. In my own sick mind, I like durability when there is more granularity between 'mint condition' and 'broken' (item working less impactful/less damage/slower/more jams/etc) and there are good methods of maintenance that keep your things working. DayZ I think threads this needle about as well as a game in that type can-- items are very durable and fairly easy to repair/maintain, and degrade with condition until they are Ruined, and while you can find things in Pristine condition, you can only repair up to Worn condition, making Pristine things that much nicer to have. Speaking of my own sick mind, I've dreamed of a mod for Factorio where assemblers degrade over time and can be fed water/oil as coolant/lubricant as maintenance with an extra logistic step to reprocess used lubricant. Captain of Industry sort of does this with a lot of waste-product-recycling which I enjoyed quite a bit
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Jan 9, 2023 19:27
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Durability is just an ammo system for swords
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Jan 9, 2023 19:33
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Gerblyn posted:I always thought the weapon durability system was a clever solution to a game design problem, namely "What do we do with all the poo poo in the world?". Every enemy you kill drops all their armor and gear, and it's all pretty useless, since it's not worth dragging around and selling, and you can't wear it all yourself. The repair system gives value to a lot of that stuff by letting the player merge it into their own gear to repair it. Of course, it has a bunch of issues as well, and I don't really miss it in FO4, but it was a neat idea!
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Jan 9, 2023 19:48
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I think BotW weapons would've sat better with me if they went to the damaged state instead of breaking, where they'd do less damage then rather than disappearing if you use them again. Then at that point I could choose to throw them for a quick damage boost like you can do now, but also have the option to keep using it in a pinch or save to repair later if it's one I really like. I'd probably still throw most of them anyway, so I'd still ends up cycling through a lot of weapons, but it'd be nice to have that as a bit of permanency.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:58
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Evilreaver posted:When it comes to durability systems, I've done a lot of soul searching on the topic (that's the kind of goon I am). There are a ton of ways to do it very wrong and only a scant few that end up being a good thing for the subject game. Even then, like in BotW, a great deal of people don't gel with the idea and end up hating it. On the other side, I can't think of any game that doesn't have durability that would be improved by its addition.
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Jan 9, 2023 20:29
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I usually hate durability, but I liked it in BotW and Dark Souls 2. But Monster Hunter does it best because it fully embraces thatTunicate posted:Durability is just an ammo system for swords
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Jan 9, 2023 20:31
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Tunicate posted:Durability is just an ammo system for swords That is my feeling, but I don't know many games that treat repairing durability like swapping mags. Dark Souls has repair powder but it's not everywhere like ammo in Doom. The Oneechan Bara games kind of have the same idea where you need to clean the zombie gore off your sword. Recharging your laser sword in No More Heroes. You could argue sharpening in monster hunter is similar, though that's more like reloading an lmg than putting in a fresh mag in a 1911.
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Jan 9, 2023 20:36
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If you think about it, hunger bars are exactly like repair bars
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Jan 9, 2023 20:45
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Hunger pangs? No, hunger pings. it is an m1 garand joke
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Jan 9, 2023 20:51
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Similar to encumbrance, a durability system can be a useful way to communicate to the player that it's time to stop the gameplay loop, go back to town or whatever to repair/sell off loot/etc., but so many games just include these systems just because the developers feel they have to. Like an above poster mentioned, Divinity: Original Sin where you can instantly repair gear whenever and wherever, even during battle. What's the point, then? To tell the player to have one of their characters put at least one point into blacksmithing? There's gotta be a better way! Like, a game could even use a busted weapon to point the player to a new location: "Sorry, I, a humble gunsmith, can't fix this fancy plasma rifle, but Dr. Optics over in Laser Town can. Mention my name and they'll give you a discount!"
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Jan 9, 2023 20:51
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sephiRoth IRA posted:I'm playing through Spyro Reignited on PC with my kid and while 1 and 2 were fun and mostly quick to 100% (120 for Spyro 1, she was blown away when I told her we weren't done), 3 is starting to become a chore. The development of the trilogy was split up so that TFB handled the first two games and the studio that made Sly Cooper was at least partially responsible for the third one. It's still a great remake of the original but doesn't quite live up to the outstanding job that TFB did with the first two, there are parts that clearly could have used some more development time. Could also just be a matter of getting Spyro fatigue after playing all three games in a row, that's a lot to get through.
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Jan 9, 2023 21:19
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sephiRoth IRA posted:
Spyro 3 has so much unnecessary bloat in it between all of the mini games and unlock-able characters. God I despite all the Agent 9 missions. It takes me longer to fully complete Spyro 3 than it does 1 and 2 combined. The third game is also by and far the buggiest, which makes sense since it’s the biggest of the games and was probably completed last so there was less time for QA. Though the most annoying bug is when Sparx refuses to pick up a gem you walked right past forcing you to back track half a level through no fault of your own.
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Jan 9, 2023 21:54
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