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SyNack Sassimov posted:Of all people I would not have expected Motronic to be puzzled at this. On our Bosch 500 (and previous dishwashers) to deal with that you simply attach a section of the drain tube to the underside of the counter, above the level where the tube then enters the drain pipe. That's enough to keep it from backflowing. e: not my pic but basically this: 
Enos Cabell fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 22:01
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SyNack Sassimov posted:Of all people I would not have expected Motronic to be puzzled at this. Everywhere that's not a thing uses a high loop. A lot of dishwashers, including Bosches, even come with a bracket for doing exactly that. I've never seen a situation in which a properly installed and high looped dishwasher required something else taking up space around a sink. Sounds exactly like the kind of thing that would get adopted into California building code.
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Jan 9, 2023 22:04
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Motronic posted:Everywhere that's not a thing uses a high loop. A lot of dishwashers, including Bosches, even come with a bracket for doing exactly that. I've never seen a situation in which a properly installed and high looped dishwasher required something else taking up space around a sink. Well I'll be the first one in line to poo poo on California buildings and building code in general (and have done so most of the time in my posts here) so I'm not arguing one way or the other. The proponents of air gap seem to suggest that it goes further than high loop because there's absolutely no way an air gap can backflow (edit: they claim) whereas high loop could in some situations (how much of a chance of happening this has...who knows). I do wonder how the states on this side of the country came to settle on it rather than high loop though - maybe the inventor was Californian. I probably could look further into it but I've gone past my limit on the caring continuum about this, so whatever.
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Jan 9, 2023 22:29
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Yeah air gaps for dishwashers in California are like light switch shutoffs for dishwashers in Texas. Or the entire situation with residential electrical in Chicago. Just a quirk of local code that isn't widely adopted. As for why California specifically adopted an excessive solution to a non-problem, I mean... that sounds pretty California.
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Jan 9, 2023 22:41
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corgski posted:Yeah air gaps for dishwashers in California are like light switch shutoffs for dishwashers in Texas. Or the entire situation with residential electrical in Chicago. Just a quirk of local code that isn't widely adopted. The what now? edit: from/in TX. Never heard of it.
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Jan 9, 2023 22:57
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Ohio code calls for an AAV or high loop for residential dishwashers, so i guess we're as good as CA. I've seen both, think it just depends if someone wants wants to pay for it and drill a hole in the countertop.
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Jan 9, 2023 22:57
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Darchangel posted:The what now? It was a thing I encountered in a bunch of Austin houses and apartments built around the mid-80s. MarxCarl posted:Ohio code calls for an AAV or high loop for residential dishwashers, so i guess we're as good as CA. I've seen both, think it just depends if someone wants wants to pay for it and drill a hole in the countertop. AAVs aren't air gaps. An air gap has liquid flowing through it and is designed to overflow into the sink should the outflow get blocked. corgski fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 23:01
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corgski posted:It was a thing I encountered in a bunch of Austin houses and apartments built around the mid-80s. It's my understanding that that was a thing when dishwashers were all hard wired. Maybe still is if you have or choose to hard wire a dishwasher for some reason.
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Jan 9, 2023 23:02
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Could be, I've just literally only seen it in Austin, not anywhere else I've lived.
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Jan 9, 2023 23:04
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Motronic posted:Everywhere that's not a thing uses a high loop. A lot of dishwashers, including Bosches, even come with a bracket for doing exactly that. I've never seen a situation in which a properly installed and high looped dishwasher required something else taking up space around a sink. I'm in Wisconsin and it's common in the few homes I've been in around here, but not sure if it's code or not. But yeah, the Bosch I had put in last week did note that a high loop or an air gap was fine in the owner's manual.
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Jan 9, 2023 23:11
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corgski posted:Could be, I've just literally only seen it in Austin, not anywhere else I've lived. Yeah, sorry, I meant in TX specifically, potentially just Austin. I don't know the specifics, but I've never heard of it elsewhere.
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Jan 9, 2023 23:11
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corgski posted:Could be, I've just literally only seen it in Austin, not anywhere else I've lived. Same, we actually wound up replacing an old dishwasher early in our first house in Austin because there was a light switch that I couldn't figure out what it went to so, of course, I turned it off. Took several hours and a new dishwasher that still didn't work combined with a cornucopia of inventive cursing before asking neighbors and finding out about the light switch. The old dishwasher would've needed to be replaced anyway within a year or so but it was still not how I wanted to spend that Saturday. I grew up in the Houston area, went to college in east Texas, and had family all over south Texas and never saw that outside of central Texas.
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Jan 9, 2023 23:13
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My worst code annoyance was living in a place that did not allow garbage disposals on sinks at all. Was not fun to forget that every day and then have to scoop out food scraps and cooking debris by hand because the city's medieval sewer system couldn't risk it. Actually, strike that, the worst is being unable to flush toilet paper.
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Jan 9, 2023 23:16
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Beef Of Ages posted:I'm in Wisconsin and it's common in the few homes I've been in around here, but not sure if it's code or not. But yeah, the Bosch I had put in last week did note that a high loop or an air gap was fine in the owner's manual. Move to WI a year ago and the dishwasher in my rental has an air gap and a light switch. First I saw both and was confused! EDIT: canyoneer posted:Actually, strike that, the worst is being unable to flush toilet paper. WHAT?
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Jan 9, 2023 23:31
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corgski posted:Or the entire situation with residential electrical in Chicago. Just a quirk of local code that isn't widely adopted. Not just residential!
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Jan 9, 2023 23:50
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Uthor posted:WHAT? Super common with some old septic systems, especially abroad. Gotta bin it.
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Jan 9, 2023 23:58
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Glory to Italia!
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Uthor posted:
I used to deliver chips to all kinds of bumfuck Egypt places in Kentucky and a lot of them had signs telling you not to flush. If the stop wasn't in a town, you generally couldn't flush the tp.
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Jan 10, 2023 00:14
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canyoneer posted:My worst code annoyance was living in a place that did not allow garbage disposals on sinks at all. Was not fun to forget that every day and then have to scoop out food scraps and cooking debris by hand because the city's medieval sewer system couldn't risk it. I get that those stupid flat strainers are annoying and useless, but you can retrofit a proper basket strainer into your kitchen sink waste pretty easily.
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Jan 10, 2023 00:23
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VelociBacon posted:If your dishwasher isn't connected to the cloud you don't need to air gap it but probably doesn't hurt in case there's a Miele zero-day. 
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Jan 10, 2023 00:24
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PurpleXVI posted:I think it's more the "two small sinks" rather than one big sink design. it's just a two-basin sink. the only unusual thing is that the basins are separated, vs the typical two-basin sink where it's all one big unit i don't hate it
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Jan 10, 2023 00:36
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:drat and I thought the tiling job done in my place was annoyingly inconsistent.
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Jan 10, 2023 00:37
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Beef Of Ages posted:Same, we actually wound up replacing an old dishwasher early in our first house in Austin because there was a light switch that I couldn't figure out what it went to so, of course, I turned it off. Took several hours and a new dishwasher that still didn't work combined with a cornucopia of inventive cursing before asking neighbors and finding out about the light switch. The old dishwasher would've needed to be replaced anyway within a year or so but it was still not how I wanted to spend that Saturday. My current rental house in the north Dallas suburbs has a light switch cutoff for the dishwasher. It's not the only place I've lived in north Texas that has had one, but not all of them have. Which is why I have had a couple experiences much like you describe above - I keep forgetting it's a thing.
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Jan 10, 2023 00:38
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I just noticed that where I mounted a TV bracket into the wooden (MDF, probably 30mm at least) fake chimney breast/shelving, they'd actually put a baton behind there to screw into which I neatly missed on account of it being far too small for its intended purpose. I don't think the previous owner had hit it either. Good job I used a bunch of hefty screws I guess. I saw this while squinting through the massive hole they'd hacked out of one of the sides (hidden inside a cupboard fortunately) after (I'm guessing) they realised they forgot to leave a way to actually run any cables through apart from a tiny hole that it was too small to fish them through. To add insult to injury, they put a tacky fake fireplace in this thing and built the front over it so to get it out I'd have to cut it out, and even if I did I can't easily turn it into a media shelf because it's not deep enough for standard hifi equipment.
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Jan 10, 2023 00:52
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Dishwasher drains, you say?  Lol apartment maintenance.
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Jan 10, 2023 00:55
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Meaty Ore posted:At first I thought this was a deliberate, if bizarre, design choice. Nope. Looks like they wanted to get fancy by putting in that central offset section and hosed up the math. Something something impossible to calculate where tiles will end up
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Jan 10, 2023 01:25
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https://i.imgur.com/bEt808j.mp4 Worst part (besides the obvious) is running a hammer drill indoors with kids in the same room with no earpro. Feel bad for them.
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Jan 10, 2023 01:31
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Should have called 811 first.
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Jan 10, 2023 02:13
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drillers hotline
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Jan 10, 2023 02:17
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Jan 10, 2023 02:52
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"Tell grandma to fetch some canning jars, I feel an inheritance coming on!"
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Jan 10, 2023 02:58
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I can think of several less complicated ways to engineer my death and that of all visitors to my basement.
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Jan 10, 2023 03:01
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When you're drunk those probably cancel it out and you walk perfectly straight down them.
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Jan 10, 2023 03:09
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I'm pretty sure this is their solution for mitigating the ridiculous pitch of the stairs. Standard size steps would need like three more feet of length total.
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Jan 10, 2023 04:13
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Lutha Mahtin posted:it's just a two-basin sink. the only unusual thing is that the basins are separated, vs the typical two-basin sink where it's all one big unit I think the biggest issue is that if you center the faucet towards the room, it looks like it would just flow onto the floor at worst, or onto the little bit of counter, and then onto the floor at best. 5 year old me would think that's hilarious, then my day would have to replace whatever was water damaged.
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Jan 10, 2023 04:44
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Motronic posted:Everywhere that's not a thing uses a high loop. A lot of dishwashers, including Bosches, even come with a bracket for doing exactly that. I've never seen a situation in which a properly installed and high looped dishwasher required something else taking up space around a sink. It might be. I just installed a Bosch 600 last Thursday and the instructions called for a minimum 33" high loop. There was a section that mentioned also installing an air gap at counter level, in addition to the loop, "depending on local code" (EDIT: No mention of hard-wiring being a factor. I bought the Bosch hardwire kit, which is a nifty box, like a US junction box, wired to the proprietary adorable Jones plug for the dishwasher itself. $40.) The Bosch did come with a snap-on bracket to create that loop at the back of the unit, but I didn't have the depth, so I brought it around the side & up & conveniently over the large gap at the top of the partition between it & the sink cabinet.  See all that foil? That's the dishwasher. Gotta love 1950s stick-built cabinets. The '84 Kitchenaid it replaced I discovered had no loop at all; I had slammed the 1" heater hose that I used to drain it straight through the floor & installed it on a 3/4" barb on a tee on the sink drain lateral downstream of the link. The hose was slacked to create a trap. Behold:  The last time I posted this photo in a previous iteration of the plumbing thread, everyone lost their minds. But Dorian approves; he knows what's up. I don't know why, but it worked perfectly for 14-years with no issues or odors. . PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jan 10, 2023 |
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Jan 10, 2023 05:11
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Lutha Mahtin posted:it's just a two-basin sink. the only unusual thing is that the basins are separated, vs the typical two-basin sink where it's all one big unit Imasalmon posted:I think the biggest issue is that if you center the faucet towards the room, it looks like it would just flow onto the floor at worst, or onto the little bit of counter, and then onto the floor at best. 5 year old me would think that's hilarious, then my day would have to replace whatever was water damaged. Tell me you never do dishes without being explicit. Ok maybe just two basin washing, which is usually pans and stuff. You gotta take washed things from the soapy sink to the rinse basin and you can't even do it over the counter, you gotta drip all over the floor because the stem is in the way. ILL Machina fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Jan 10, 2023 |
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Jan 10, 2023 06:49
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Nitrox posted:I'm pretty sure this is their solution for mitigating the ridiculous pitch of the stairs. Standard size steps would need like three more feet of length total. It is, I actually saw this live a few weeks back. It's functional, but looks wild.
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Jan 10, 2023 11:07
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:Dishwasher drains, you say? Lol what? That's a perfectly reasonable way to do it. Same way a washer drain is constructed. This would also constitute an air gap for somewhere that requires one without using up space on your sink that could be better used for a soap dispenser and air switch for the disposal.
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Jan 10, 2023 15:28
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Motronic posted:Lol what? That's a perfectly reasonable way to do it. Same way a washer drain is constructed. This would also constitute an air gap for somewhere that requires one without using up space on your sink that could be better used for a soap dispenser and air switch for the disposal. It's somewhat jury-rigged, also the question of why there's a Y-pipe being used at the end rather than just a straight pipe. Plus the way it's fixed there's a chance that the end could slip out. The more "correct" way to do it would be something that fixes the end of the pipe rather than something several inches back from the end.
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Jan 10, 2023 15:35
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Nitrox posted:I'm pretty sure this is their solution for mitigating the ridiculous pitch of the stairs. Standard size steps would need like three more feet of length total. It is but it's built wrong unless that's a really wide stairway. Each step should alternate in depth so that the foot put forward has a shelf to step onto naturally. The way that one is designed is that you have to choose to have a foot swing to the middle of the stairs every other step.
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