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Correct me if I am wrong but if this OGL license comes out this week then one of the large reason people use foundry for something like Pathfinder is you can buy the Adventure paths already set up. Sure you can have pirate SRDs but that is just one more barrier for entry on top of having to set up the Adventure Paths yourself manually from scratch. Seems like a pretty big chilling effect.
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Jan 10, 2023 00:06
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Maxwell Lord posted:The problem I think is that removing the old OGL introduces some ambiguity about what would "endanger" a clone. I agree there. I think smaller companies selling D&D-alike things might be at risk of getting C&D'ed. Paizo can afford decent lawyers to comb through stuff, so how they respond will be a useful barometer. Pelgrane Press can probably afford someone to look over it all, too, but at least they're planning to refresh the rules for 13th Age soon and can give it a more detailed scrub. I don't know what Kobold Press would do. Probably grit their teeth and convert to the OGL 1.1 since they're so heavily invested in making D&D supplements right now?
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Jan 10, 2023 00:11
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Vire posted:Correct me if I am wrong but if this OGL license comes out this week then one of the large reason people use foundry for something like Pathfinder is you can buy the Adventure paths already set up. Sure you can have pirate SRDs but that is just one more barrier for entry on top of having to set up the Adventure Paths yourself manually from scratch. Seems like a pretty big chilling effect. I don't think WOTC sells their Adventure Paths for Foundry anyway. It's not great, but again, nothing changes with D&Done. Roll20 though is in trouble. Megazver fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jan 10, 2023 |
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Jan 10, 2023 00:12
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Megazver posted:I don't think WOTC sells their Adventure Paths for Foundry anyway. It's not great, but again, nothing changes with D&Done. Under 1.1 as I understand it Pazio would have to pay 25% of all revenue from selling their APs on foundry and lose the rights to their IP which means likely no one will sell anything on foundry WOTC or not was my point. Even if they remove OGL 1.0a and take WOTC to court that will all take months / years. Not sure what they do in the interim. Yeah Roll20 is going to be dust after WOTC table comes out. Vire fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Jan 10, 2023 |
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Jan 10, 2023 00:18
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Vire posted:Under 1.1 as I understand it Pazio would have to pay 25% of all revenue from selling their APs on foundry and lose the rights to their IP which means likely no one will sell anything on foundry WOTC or not was my point. Even if they remove OGL 1.0a and take WOTC to court that will all take months / years. Not sure what they do in the interim. Oh yeah, I get ya now. Yeah, that's crazy.
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Jan 10, 2023 00:24
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Nuns with Guns posted:I agree there. I think smaller companies selling D&D-alike things might be at risk of getting C&D'ed. Paizo can afford decent lawyers to comb through stuff, so how they respond will be a useful barometer. Pelgrane Press can probably afford someone to look over it all, too, but at least they're planning to refresh the rules for 13th Age soon and can give it a more detailed scrub. I don't know what Kobold Press would do. Probably grit their teeth and convert to the OGL 1.1 since they're so heavily invested in making D&D supplements right now? But what I'm thinking is, even if the lawyers comb through stuff, they may not be able to safely ascertain what's game and what isn't. It may not be possible if the old license is just gone and the new one applies only to whatever new thing they've made.
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Jan 10, 2023 00:30
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I think my DM might quit if Roll20 dies, simply because he bought the entire Kingmaker PF2e campaign for it.
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Jan 10, 2023 00:37
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Maxwell Lord posted:But what I'm thinking is, even if the lawyers comb through stuff, they may not be able to safely ascertain what's game and what isn't. It may not be possible if the old license is just gone and the new one applies only to whatever new thing they've made. For Paizo? They'd probably have some lawyers guide them on drawing an arbitrary line in the sand and say "Come and get it, if you think you're hard enough." And then we see if there's any kind of response. It's not like they can fold, and they're not going to give over money to WotC without a legal fight.
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Jan 10, 2023 00:41
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hyphz posted:We can only hope that we don't get into disneyfication problems along the lines of "you can use Snow White but not the names of the dwarves" or "you can use Alice in Wonderland but she can't wear blue". To get to gunk like "you can use trolls but only if they're magic users" would be just horribly awkward for everyone. Like I'm not a lawyer but what you're describing is not a problem that can happen, it's a situation we're already in.
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Jan 10, 2023 00:52
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Vire posted:Yeah Roll20 is going to be dust after WOTC table comes out. https://blog.roll20.net/posts/the-orr-report-q4-2021/ They still have the 45% of games being run on the platform that aren't 5e, so "dust" is exaggerating things. They're clearly anticipating an impact, though, hence the OneBookshelf merger.
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Jan 10, 2023 01:11
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I'm hoping that this leads to the collapse of D&D so we can finally see the rise of well managed game systems like Shadowrun.
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Jan 10, 2023 03:00
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It's obviously too early to hope this brings about a Golden Age of RPGs, but legal consequences for designing a game that's "too much like D&D" could be exactly what the industry needs.
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Jan 10, 2023 04:15
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JerikTelorian posted:I'm hoping that this leads to the collapse of D&D so we can finally see the rise of well managed game systems like Shadowrun. you could run this joke into the ground many times over just replacing Shadowrun with any number of other titles 
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Jan 10, 2023 04:21
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I, for one, welcome our Monte Cook Games overlords.
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Jan 10, 2023 04:33
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Splicer posted:Have you read literally any of my posts ever* because not doing this is 50% of why the big six are balls.  But yes, I and I think several other folks agree that CON shouldn't be its own stat. Hit points can be independent of character stats, and all the athletics etc. stuff can just be... Athletics. quote:You know what's not here? Charisma. Which is 45% of the remainder. Personality = Charisma Adventures in an Age Undreamed of posted:Personality: A measure of your charisma, ease of social interaction, and ability to be charming or deceptive as needed. Personality governs skills such as Animal Handling, Command, Counsel, Persuade, and Society. Personality also determines your bonus damage for Threaten actions.
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Jan 10, 2023 04:44
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Nuns with Guns posted:I, for one, welcome our Monte Cook Games overlords. I don't, his games are kind of terrible.
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Jan 10, 2023 05:16
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Then everyone started playing Exalted 3rd edition, and stood up and clapped.
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Jan 10, 2023 05:25
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Nuns with Guns posted:I, for one, welcome our Monte Cook Games overlords. Finally time for MCWoD to be recognized for the perfect game that it is
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Jan 10, 2023 05:48
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Piell posted:Finally time for All hail the Black Cube.
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Jan 10, 2023 05:53
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im glad everybody got around the fire and declared Sword Chronicle the perfect game that we must now hack into every genre for some reason.
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Jan 10, 2023 06:07
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Doesn’t Roll20 have their own license and agreement with Wizards as they are allowed to sell Wizards products.
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Jan 10, 2023 06:14
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So I'm a bit late to this party since I've been out of the loop for a while, and now am freaking out as someone who has been working on and off for a while on a D20-derived system with some intents of publishing it myself. One thing that comes to mind is how many cRPGs use d20/OGL stuff. To say nothing as has been brought up of Paizo. Maybe it's copium speaking, but surely there is no way this thing does not get pretty swiftly challenged in the courts, or does it not affect video games already made? Granted, I understand any court battle would be long and drawn out and people are hosed in the meantime, not to mention I have no faith in our courts in not siding with the big evil corporation, just yeah. I'm struggling to imagine a situation where Paizo or someone else doesn't challenge this immediately because even if it's costly and risky, it's not like they have much to lose if it drops as-is.
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Jan 10, 2023 06:18
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2024 is the year GURPS makes a comeback.
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Jan 10, 2023 06:31
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RoleMaster released a new edition just as WOTC is set to stumble? Things are looking up!
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Jan 10, 2023 07:12
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If someone sat me down and give me a choice between playing 5e and stuff from monte cook I would eat the books and try to choke on the cover. On the other hand buying MCG stuff at least does not make me give money to notorious asswipe
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Jan 10, 2023 07:15
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moths posted:It's obviously too early to hope this brings about a Golden Age of RPGs, but legal consequences for designing a game that's "too much like D&D" could be exactly what the industry needs. The annoying thing is that arguably we've been in a Golden Age of RPGs for a while now, despite the many aggravations and inequalities of things like crowdfunding (Kickstarter only takes projects from certain regions of the world, for example) it's still never been easier to produce the games of one's dreams, and there are tons of great RPGs being made, it's just that D&D sucks all the air out of the room. I'm not really convinced that D&D stumbling would radically change this dynamic a lot tbh, but I also don't think it would actually hurt the non-D&D creators either. A lot of people have been finger-wagging about how D&D is "the gateway game" and bad things happening to it would be bad for everyone else, but frankly I don't see it. The idea that D&D's successes are a rising tide lifting all boats has been pretty thoroughly debunked by this point, and if D&D completely imploded overnight and ceased to exist I'm not convinced it would have a meaningful impact on the Every Other RPG industry which already has to scrabble and hustle for sales.
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Jan 10, 2023 09:09
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Siivola posted:2024 is the year GURPS makes a comeback. This is the trad games equivalent of "2024 will be the year of Linux on the desktop"
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Jan 10, 2023 10:03
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Magnetic North posted:This is the trad games equivalent of "2024 will be the year of Linux on the desktop" the year of widespread gurps vtts on the linux desktop is coming
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Jan 10, 2023 10:47
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90s Cringe Rock posted:you're joking but the steam deck is really good I'm an idiot who is barely computer literate and has never used Linux before in their lives and I love my Deck, yeah. Like "Linux will become popular!" takes on a different vibe when it includes the caveat "after Microsoft torpedoes their already shaky reputation, alienates many of their customers, and actively works to prevent software companies from developing for Windows."
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Jan 10, 2023 10:51
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Savage worlds is the Steam deck version of the GURPS. It just works and is actually fun to play with.
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Jan 10, 2023 10:52
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The GURPS system for Foundry is really well done.
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Jan 10, 2023 11:09
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GURPS is good it's just a lot of filing down to get to the game you want and imo DFRPG isn't filed down enough- the full gurps tactical combat just isn't right for the vibe they're going for. Which is kinda why i'm working out a way to do it faster.
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Jan 10, 2023 13:26
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:So I'm a bit late to this party since I've been out of the loop for a while, and now am freaking out as someone who has been working on and off for a while on a D20-derived system with some intents of publishing it myself. Stop freaking out, unless you’ve published already or are going to publish today the OGL 1.0a or 1.1 is unlikely to make much of an impact on you that cannot be accommodated. You don’t have a massive backlog of previously published material under 1.0a correct? You’re intending to publish at some point in the future. IANAL but as has been discussed above it’s unlikely that OGL 1.0a can be rescinded, therefore you have a reasonable chance to still publish under 1.0a. We’ve seen this happen before with 4e’s GSL that initially made it impossible to publish under the GSL AND OGL simultaneously. This was eventually revised to remove that restriction, and we have the environment we have today. As a future publisher, you can wait and see to how things play out. Who knows maybe it turns out that in your case it’s not a meaningful difference. Regardless you don’t need to waste energy on this until you’re ready to publish. Panzeh posted:GURPS is good it's just a lot of filing down to get to the game you want and imo DFRPG isn't filed down enough- the full gurps tactical combat just isn't right for the vibe they're going for. Soooo Savage worlds but keeping the 3d6 roll under system GURPs uses? Nystral fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Jan 10, 2023 |
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Jan 10, 2023 14:49
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:So I'm a bit late to this party since I've been out of the loop for a while, and now am freaking out as someone who has been working on and off for a while on a D20-derived system with some intents of publishing it myself. The cRPGs that use 3e or 5e rules more than likely have their own very clear and private licensing agreements that include the rulesets of the games they're lifting from, and therefore aren't going to be impacted by this. Just like the agreement that was noted for the Star Wars d20 rules that were used in KOTOR. Are you intending to publish a very "D&D with the numbers filed off" OGL game? A 3e/5e splatbook? Or were you just planning to use the OGL and generic terminology from the SRD rules? I'm not a lawyer, and you might want to have one look over this after WotC formally releases the OGL revisions and companies with actual published OGL content respond to it. Still, if your d20-derived system is distinct enough or only borrows generic rules, it's not technically something that can be blocked by a WotC copyright. It's too early to say if WotC would still get aggressively litigious or try to test that boundary though.
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Jan 10, 2023 16:34
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There are two CRPGs I can think of that just use the OGL/SRD - Low Magic Age (3e) and Solasta (5e).
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Jan 10, 2023 17:32
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Nystral posted:therefore you have a reasonable chance to still publish under 1.0a If nothing else, someone can write a new license that has exactly the same effect as the OGL 1.0a and people can put their work under that. What matters are the terms of the license, not the name of the document they’re in; the name is just a shorthand for the terms, generally speaking.
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Jan 10, 2023 17:35
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Kobold announced they'll be developing their own system. https://twitter.com/KoboldPress/status/1612841902537146370 https://koboldpress.com/raising-our-flag/ The site is getting hit hard, I think.
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Jan 10, 2023 17:37
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Arivia posted:There are two CRPGs I can think of that just use the OGL/SRD - Low Magic Age (3e) and Solasta (5e). And potentially all of the Pathfinder based ones, because of the "infectious" rule on the OGL.
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Jan 10, 2023 17:38
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:One thing that comes to mind is how many cRPGs use d20/OGL stuff. To say nothing as has been brought up of Paizo.
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Jan 10, 2023 17:40
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Megazver posted:Kobold announced they'll be developing their own system. Honestly, if it was gonna be anyone, it was probably gonna be KP.
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