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My take on it is that a wood-and-hemp sailing ship could potentially go fast in a strong wind, if all the sails are left up. But very quickly either something will break, probably catastrophically, or the wind will push the ship onto its side. In a ship with steel spars and rigging, at least you can handle more wind without something breaking. This an early version of the beaufort scale. The columns on the right are the definitions of the levels of the scale, so sailors are measuring wind by how much sail they can safely carry. 
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Oct 12, 2022 20:00
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Ravenfood posted:I thought they help keep the the ship from veering to windward while tacking. So they are just there to knock the ship over sideways, just not big enough to do it. That is my (limited) understanding. They help with turning in the brief time while you are very close to head-on with the wind during tacking and the square sails are of little use.
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Oct 12, 2022 21:39
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To elaborate a bit, as well as giving some thrust forwards, the fore-and-aft sails can be used to put some torque on a ship. So going into a tack, you could use the spanker (or whatever the rearmost fore-and-aft sail is called) to help you turn towards the wind. Coming out of a tack you use the jib, and maybe the other foresails, to help you, i.e. to get you pointing sufficiently far from the wind on the new tack that you get some useful thrust, and ultimately some forwards speed that lets the rudder work. You might also need to manage the fore-and-aft sails when you are going in a straight line. E.g. if your current sail plan is not quite balanced, and you keep turning towards the wind, it can be better to balance this by setting another fore-and-aft sail forward, rather than by using the rudder. (I'm not entirely clear why it is better - I suppose using the rudder is more draggy.) When you're head-on to the wind, the square sails are useful - the topsail is aback, and that's the main thing pushing you around. (This is based on zero sailing experience.)
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Oct 12, 2022 21:54
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If anyone is interested in reading more about steel hulled sailing ships in the 20th century I highly recommend "The last grain race" by Eric Newby. He signs up as a hand on one of the last commercial voyages to bring grain from Australia to Europe before the war, its an amazing book.
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Oct 12, 2022 23:16
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Just watched the movie, for the first time in a few years. Even after all this time I’m still stunned at what a great job they did with it. I think it’s just a wonderful film. Has anyone here ever played that game Naval Action. I had my eye on it for a while several years back, but never bought it. I was wondering how it is these days, if there are people still online, etc.
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Oct 20, 2022 02:06
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Naval Action is a little arcade-like but if you want an RTS take on the same genre Ultimate Admiral: Age of Sail is pretty good.
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Oct 22, 2022 |
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Oct 20, 2022 02:16
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MrMojok posted:Just watched the movie, for the first time in a few years. I played the beta and it was great but then it went open world pvp and got ehh. Might be good now no idea. The basic mechanics were great.
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Oct 20, 2022 02:58
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MrMojok posted:Just watched the movie, for the first time in a few years. They just made it free to play today, there's a F2P server (the Caribbean server). I think it gets reset every "season" whatever that is now, I havent looked into it in detail but here's the post: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/311310/view/3547173461241235672 . I last played consistently about a year ago, casually, but burned out and the game went through a lot of mechanic changes since then in preparation for this free to play launch. The War (PVP) server was terrible for new people, as old timers in superships loved to camp capital cities for trading newbies. The Peace (PvE) server would be better if you just wanted some chill ship action. I have no idea if the new F2P server is pvp or not. It was very low population but maybe that will increase a bit. However I played solo a lot and it was fine and fun and there is really nothing else like it out there. And a warning, the overpriced DLC ships require a certain rank (rank determines your recruitable crew size) to be able to sail effectively. Hieronymous Alloy posted:I played the beta and it was great but then it went open world pvp and got ehh. Might be good now no idea. The basic mechanics were great. The battle mechanics were still great, being able to manual sail effectively and such and firing broadsides were great fun, but yeah, all the open world stuff wasn't the best. However I got a lot of reading done leaving my ship to sail from A to B just adjusting my heading when the wind changed too much.
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Oct 20, 2022 05:23
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I just started rereading Master & Commander again. I was at the start of chapter two, when Jack and Stephen are eating together. They are taking about the difference between Spanish and Catalan, and Jack speculates that Catalan is a patois "as they say in France." Except, he says putain instead. Stephen gently corrects him and Jack replies "Patois-just so. Yet I swear the other is a word: I learnt it somewhere." So, on previous reads, I just chalked this up to Jack making a pronunciation error. It occurred to me this time that there might be more to it, so I looked it up. Whore. It means whore. So, not only does he get the word wrong, he uses a very dirty word instead. Stephen is then polite enough to not point it out. Jack then manages to make things worse by specifying that he definitely learned the word somewhere (wonder where a sailor would learn that?). Stephen, who is very fluent in French and therefore definitely knows what it meant, carefully does not inform Jack that it is actually a real word. I love that these books are full of stuff like this. No particular attention is drawn to them and it's easy to just gloss over them and still get a good feel for what's going on. But when you pick them out, they also provide really good moments of strong characterization. That entire exchange of a few sentences is a very good encapsulation of who both characters are. It's the very start of the first book and there is already a very clear depth to how the author has conceived the main protagonists.
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Nov 17, 2022 17:43
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If you want to play with sails, A Painted Ocean is a (free) simulator of a 38-gun frigate with realistic physics and full control of how the sails are set. https://thapen.itch.io/painted-ocean
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Nov 17, 2022 18:03
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Lemony posted:I just started rereading Master & Commander again. I was at the start of chapter two, when Jack and Stephen are eating together. They are taking about the difference between Spanish and Catalan, and Jack speculates that Catalan is a patois "as they say in France." Except, he says putain instead. Stephen gently corrects him and Jack replies "Patois-just so. Yet I swear the other is a word: I learnt it somewhere." I love these things too and I think it reinforces the tone of the books as a novel of manners. The author's reticence about such topics mirrors the norms of gentlemen at the time.
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Nov 18, 2022 12:33
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I just finished Blue at the Mizzen and my first read of all of the A-U books and I'm genuinely kind of broken up about it. I started Master & Commander sometime around the beginning of the pandemic and these books have, in some small way at least, helped me get through the last two years. It felt like how fantasy novels were for me as a kid, when I needed something completely fantastical and fictional to escape from everyday life sometimes, and I would get totally transported by whatever I was reading. I loved these books, and I'm sure I'll read them all again, likely sooner than later. I'm amazed how invested I got, I definitely felt an emotional gut punch when Diana died unexpectedly in between two books, and an even bigger gut punch when Bonden died (can't remember which books those events happened in so just treat those like spoilers for the series, I guess!). I'm also a little disappointed that I'll never get to find out what happens with Stephen and Christine Wood, or get more of Horatio Hanson, who seemed like he was being set up to be a recurring and interesting character. One question though, should I read 21? A friend who had read the series years ago said he read 21 when it came out and kind of regretted it, he said it kind of ended the series on a down note for him, though he didn't really go into why other than he felt it was pretty unfinished. What are the thread's thoughts on it? I'm inclined to not read it based on what I've heard.
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Nov 22, 2022 20:18
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MockingQuantum posted:I just finished Blue at the Mizzen and my first read of all of the A-U books and I'm genuinely kind of broken up about it. I started Master & Commander sometime around the beginning of the pandemic and these books have, in some small way at least, helped me get through the last two years. It felt like how fantasy novels were for me as a kid, when I needed something completely fantastical and fictional to escape from everyday life sometimes, and I would get totally transported by whatever I was reading. I loved these books, and I'm sure I'll read them all again, likely sooner than later. It's perfectly fine to finish where you are but I'm glad I checked out 21, however 21 isn't just unfinished, it's barely anything. here quoting myself: PlushCow posted:The unfinished one is incredibly short, like a few chapters maybe, if at that, but a nice reminder that Jack and Stephen kept on sailing. It gives you an idea of where O'Brian was headed with the story; it has been a long time since I looked at it but I think he was mining Cochrane's life again but at this point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cochrane,_10th_Earl_of_Dundonald#Chilean_Navy PlushCow posted:This was linked in this (or its predecessor's) thread, and it was a nice read about the unfinished 21 and feelings about finishing the series: The series ends at 20 in my mind so idk how your friend thinks 21 ends it on a down note, unless that note is you'll never get to read that story which I'm sure would've been lovely. edit: also the page count of 21 is misleading, lots of it is just pictures of obrian's handwritten pages of what's printed for 21, but with maybe one or two minor neat little things like a drawing of a dinner table so he could keep track of where everyone was seated. PlushCow fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Nov 22, 2022 |
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Nov 22, 2022 22:31
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PlushCow posted:The series ends at 20 in my mind so idk how your friend thinks 21 ends it on a down note, unless that note is you'll never get to read that story which I'm sure would've been lovely. I think it was this, less that the story itself is any way a downer, more that it felt like an unfinished appendix to a series that didn't necessarily need it. I thought I remembered him saying not to read it because it was disappointing, but reading what you said here I think he probably meant to not read it with the same expectations as one of the complete books. I may still skip it, I was perfectly satisfied with the last book even if there's more I would have wanted to know, and sometimes these kinds of fragmentary publications kind of take me out of the mindset that let me really deeply enjoy the other work, which isn't a big deal but just doesn't appeal to me.
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Nov 22, 2022 22:44
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MockingQuantum posted:I just finished Blue at the Mizzen and my first read of all of the A-U books and I'm genuinely kind of broken up about it. I started Master & Commander sometime around the beginning of the pandemic and these books have, in some small way at least, helped me get through the last two years. It felt like how fantasy novels were for me as a kid, when I needed something completely fantastical and fictional to escape from everyday life sometimes, and I would get totally transported by whatever I was reading. I loved these books, and I'm sure I'll read them all again, likely sooner than later. Congratulations, you now have ahead of you the best re-reading experience I'm aware of. These books are so rich on re-read because with each passage through you learn how to read them better. I've posted it before, but Jo Walton had a great series of posts on Tor.com a few years ago, on re-reading these books: https://www.tor.com/series/re-reading-patrick-obrians-aubrey-maturin-series/ To quote briefly from her post on 21, quote:There isn’t much here—this isn’t an unfinished book so much as a barely started one, just a few chapters flapping in the wind. There are some lovely things . . . . But this is thin stuff, pretty much first draft, unrevised, and with only hints of where the story would have taken us.
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Nov 23, 2022 08:21
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MockingQuantum posted:I just finished Blue at the Mizzen and my first read of all of the A-U books and I'm genuinely kind of broken up about it. I started Master & Commander sometime around the beginning of the pandemic and these books have, in some small way at least, helped me get through the last two years. It felt like how fantasy novels were for me as a kid, when I needed something completely fantastical and fictional to escape from everyday life sometimes, and I would get totally transported by whatever I was reading. I loved these books, and I'm sure I'll read them all again, likely sooner than later. I didn't read 21. Leaving it unread felt to me like the series never really concluded, and I could pretend Jack and Stephen were still out there sailing on some new adventure. The good news is, you'll be able to re-read this series over and over, and every book you'll find something new. O'Brians prose is deceptive in its simplicty, there's a lot under the surface.
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Nov 24, 2022 21:38
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I just started The Reverse of the Medal. Sounds like Jack is going to get taken in by another con man, what a doofus.
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Dec 10, 2022 19:23
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That's how he rolls.
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Dec 10, 2022 20:05
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A Proper Uppercut posted:I just started The Reverse of the Medal. Sounds like Jack is going to get taken in by another con man, what a doofus. My favorite scene in the entire series takes place in this book. You'll know it when you get to it.
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Dec 10, 2022 21:11
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:My favorite scene in the entire series takes place in this book. You'll know it when you get to it. Looking forward to it. I think my favorite bit in all the books so far was the James Bond poo poo Maturin pulled with the French agents, I can't remember the book. Also this current one is looking really bleak still, I know POB doesn't really linger on the sad stuff , but it really feels like something bad is looming. He's really a master of things left unsaid.
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Dec 11, 2022 16:27
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when I first finished the series I was wondering if I'd read 21 or not I read the first few pages, as part of discussing what was closer to finished and what wasn't, it quoted the one passage I wanted to see, then I stopped. when I do a re-read, which is inevitable, I doubt I'll pick up 21 again. That said, I don't think there's a wrong choice universally on whether to read it or not, it's really up to you.
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Dec 12, 2022 04:20
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:My favorite scene in the entire series takes place in this book. You'll know it when you get to it. Which one, out of curiosity? The scene where all the sailors show up to protect him when he's in the pillory? I can't remember if that happens in Medal or not, but it was one of my favorite moments.
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Dec 12, 2022 06:18
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MockingQuantum posted:Which one, out of curiosity? The scene where all the sailors show up to protect him when he's in the pillory? I can't remember if that happens in Medal or not, but it was one of my favorite moments. That's the one. Makes me tear up every time.
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Dec 12, 2022 06:31
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Off hats!
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Dec 12, 2022 06:32
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There's a clip of Patrick Tull reading it on YouTube, he's very good.
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Dec 12, 2022 13:14
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yaffle posted:There's a clip of Patrick Tull reading it on YouTube, he's very good. Oooh almost clicked that spoiler up there. Yea I'm actually listening to all his audiobooks. He's amazing. I feel like it makes it easier to let all the naval terminology wash over you because he narrates it like he knows what he's 5wlkint about. I'll probably go back through in print once I'm done.
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Dec 12, 2022 14:33
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A Proper Uppercut posted:Also this current one is looking really bleak still, I know POB doesn't really linger on the sad stuff , but it really feels like something bad is looming. He's really a master of things left unsaid. POB is going back to actual historical events of Cochrane (and actually I'd argue Aubrey's version is happier) and I bet he did struggle to tell this part in his own way.
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Dec 12, 2022 22:01
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MockingQuantum posted:Which one, out of curiosity? The scene where all the sailors show up to protect him when he's in the pillory? I can't remember if that happens in Medal or not, but it was one of my favorite moments. I was listening in the shower and this part came up, literally had me sobbing. Incredible.
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Dec 13, 2022 21:14
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Aubrey is certainly less guilty. The descendants of Ellenborough and Cochrane are still going at it over that case.
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Dec 19, 2022 16:47
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mllaneza posted:If you want to play with sails, A Painted Ocean is a (free) simulator of a 38-gun frigate with realistic physics and full control of how the sails are set. Thanks for posting this, I tried it out last night and loved it. I could practically smell the toasted cheese!
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Dec 22, 2022 15:09
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Don't know how I didn't pick up on this the last time through, but rereading Post Captain last month and when he's describing Polychrest's atrocious sailing qualities, it occurred to me that "leeway" literally means the allowance for how far to the lee the wind will push your ship off course Etymology is fun for me, so it's always neat to discover the meaning of a word has been staring me in the face for the last half hour going "Hello! McFly??"
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Dec 22, 2022 19:19
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It shows how centric sailing and the sea were to the British Empire in just how many common terms or phrases in the English language have nautical origins as slang or technical terms.
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Dec 23, 2022 08:43
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What exactly is the difference between a sloop rig and a topsail schooner rig and a schooner rig?
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Jan 14, 2023 15:42
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Arglebargle III posted:What exactly is the difference between a sloop rig and a topsail schooner rig and a schooner rig? As I understand these things a Sloop is always schooner rigged, whereas schooners are most often sloop rigged, when sailing by and large. yaffle fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Jan 14, 2023 |
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Jan 14, 2023 16:02
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Arglebargle III posted:What exactly is the difference between a sloop rig and a topsail schooner rig and a schooner rig? A sloop rig is a fore-and-aft rig with a single mast. Your typical modern sailboat is a Bermuda sloop (distinguished by the triangular mainsail), whereas I think in Aubrey's day a typical sloop rig would have a gaff mainsail. A schooner is a fore-and-aft rig with two or more masts (I think I've seen as many as seven by the beginning of the 20th century). A typical schooner of Aubrey's day would have a fore and main mast (although these might be much closer in height than in, say, a brig) with gaff mainsails. A topsail schooner adds a square topsail to the foremast and possibly the mainmast, improving performance before the wind. e: corrected "closer than height" to "closer in height" OpenlyEvilJello fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Jan 14, 2023 |
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Jan 14, 2023 17:58
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:A sloop rig is a fore-and-aft rig with a single mast. Your typical modern sailboat is a Bermuda sloop (distinguished by the triangular mainsail), whereas I think in Aubrey's day a typical sloop rig would have a gaff mainsail. Golly, it really does sail by and large.
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Jan 14, 2023 18:03
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:A sloop rig is a fore-and-aft rig with a single mast. Your typical modern sailboat is a Bermuda sloop (distinguished by the triangular mainsail), whereas I think in Aubrey's day a typical sloop rig would have a gaff mainsail. 
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Jan 14, 2023 18:10
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Read Blue at the Mizzen and 21 over my summer break, finishing my first ever read through of the series (since I only read a few of them a year). I started Master and Commander in spring in 2015 sitting in a park in London, and ended 21 sitting on a remote beach in Western Australia, which feels appropriate. What a series. If there'd been a "better" time to end the series, if O'Brian had wanted to, I think it might have been either the poignant Reverse of the Medal scene discussed upthread, or the end of The Hundred Days with the end of the war. But given it was an unwitting end to the series, by chance I think it ends quite appropriately: aboard Surprise, at sea.
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Jan 15, 2023 06:24
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yaffle posted:As I understand these things a Sloop is always schooner rigged, whereas schooners are most often sloop rigged, when sailing by and large.
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Jan 15, 2023 08:47
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I thoroughly enjoyed the Auberyad, and have been on a bit of a Napoleonic Era kick ever since. I was wondering, what is this threads opinion on the Sharpe books? I have heard that they get on the repetitious side of things, but that aside are they worth the time it takes to read them?
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Jan 16, 2023 18:17
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