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I have noted that he has a decline/insecurity story going into a major show a week in his home town, a week after a ppv, but that might just be the same kind of wolf tickets
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Jan 13, 2023 23:26
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CommonShore posted:wolf tickets I learned a new phrase today 
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Jan 13, 2023 23:37
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Kvlt! posted:my friends and i were watching old wwf and were talking: was Dead Man era Taker a babyface or a heel? He was generally portrayed as a "bad guy" and Paul Bearer did heel stuff like interference in a match. But he was also wildly over and the crowd always cheered him on. He said heel, I argued babyface, he argued heel
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Jan 15, 2023 01:10
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Ive always felt attitude undertaker could never be a proper heel the crowd booed because the stuff he ended up doing was either so ridiculously evil it turned around to hilarity such as kidnapping stephanie, generally foiled such as trying to sacrifice stone cold, or the people he did actual significant stuff to where jobbers or people didnt really care about. I think this lasts until biker taker when he made JR kiss rear end or beat the absolute poo poo out of the hardys.
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Jan 15, 2023 01:48
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I think the period where he was IN CAHOOTS with Kane and/or Vince McMahon and loving with Stone Cold had some semi-effective heeling (or at least it got the audience booing him at points), then you had Ministry of Darkness/Long Motorcycle Soliloquy Undertaker in 1999 which was mostly funny as you pointed out, and yeah, while "Big Evil, Big Dog" short haired Bikertaker had a lot of dumb poo poo going on, at least he turned into a decent heel. Was Undertaker ever really a heel from like 2004 until he retired? I guess there was whatever summer he revealed Brock Lesnar's secret vulnerability to dick punches?
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Jan 15, 2023 04:24
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He was subtlety the heel in his second WrestleMania match against Shawn Michaels but it was because fighting Undertaker at WM had a fighting force-of-nature Galactus kinda energy. I thought he acted heelish in his No Way Out match against Kurt Angle, and I'm sure he must have been sorta heel in his 2007 feud against Batista.
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Jan 15, 2023 23:54
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The Big Evil stuff was so ill-fated. When he first went back to the Deadman gimmick after American Badass I was like "no way this will ever work, you can't go back now dude" but I was wrong. He was probably MORE over the second stint as the Undertaker.
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Jan 16, 2023 01:12
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:The Big Evil stuff was so ill-fated. When he first went back to the Deadman gimmick after American Badass I was like "no way this will ever work, you can't go back now dude" but I was wrong. He was probably MORE over the second stint as the Undertaker. It is remarkable. I heard Undertaker was planning on retiring in '99 (terrible knees) yet somehow he would go on to have all his best WM matches well after this.
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Jan 16, 2023 12:23
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Who was actually supposed to win that Rumble where Batista and Cena botched the ending?
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Jan 16, 2023 16:31
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Probably the guy who went on to win the match anyway like a minute later
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Jan 16, 2023 16:32
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History Comes Inside! posted:Probably the guy who went on to win the match anyway like a minute later I have no recollection of what even happened next. That era of WWE is like a blind spot for me and I just saw someone post a random gif of the botch itself, but none of the aftermath. I couldn't remember if it ended up like the Bret/Luger finish.
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Jan 16, 2023 16:43
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Vince exploded his legs and made them restart the match for a quick spinebuster and Batista wins.
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Jan 16, 2023 16:50
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History Comes Inside! posted:Vince exploded his legs and made them restart the match for a quick spinebuster and Batista wins.
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Jan 16, 2023 17:14
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Thanks! I remember the legs exploding but nothing after that. I wonder what was supposed to happen there; Batista goes for the Batista Bomb and loses his balance, stumbles back, and they both just flop to the floor. I wonder if that powerbomb was supposed to go off without a hitch or get countered into something else. Really just kind of spectacular that it wasn't planned because it was pretty god drat smooth for being a massive botch.
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Jan 16, 2023 17:27
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Batista was supposed to not fall out of the ring but he didn’t grab the ropes and just ate poo poo instead, iirc.
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Jan 16, 2023 18:06
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What do you think is WWEs worst era? I'm in 98 now on rewatches but I started at 95 and it's crazy how bad it was in 95. I always thought this now is the worst era of WWE but now that I've seen it 95 was much worse in my opinion.
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Jan 16, 2023 19:08
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right now lol, at least in 95 you could see cool talent even with lovely booking/storylines
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Jan 16, 2023 19:11
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Kvlt! posted:right now lol, at least in 95 you could see cool talent even with lovely booking/storylines https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki/1995_List_of_Monday_Night_RAW_results and you’re out of your mind if you think modern WWE has less “cool talent” than half of the poo poo that passed for a main event in 1995
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Jan 16, 2023 19:20
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the last 5 or 6 years is by far the worst wwe has ever been. angles/storylines that either never end or abruptly end with no payoff, the same two people wrestling 15 times in a 2 month span, and best of all, theres like 6 hours a week of it. Thank you vince.
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Jan 16, 2023 19:22
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Kvlt! posted:right now lol, at least in 95 you could see cool talent even with lovely booking/storylines Chris Avery, Bob Backlund, Nick Barberry, Mike Bell, Bam Bam Bigelow, British Bulldog, the Brooklyn Brawler, King Kong Bundy, The Bushwhackers, Doink The Clown II, Duke Droese, Howard Finkel, Henry Godwinn, Hakushi, Matt Hardy, Owen Hart, Bob Holly, IRS, Jeff Jarrett, Chris Kanyon(??), Mike Khoury, Bob Knight, Kwang, Lex Luger, Rich Meyers, Aldo Montoya, Jim Neidhart, Buck Quartermaine, Roy Raymond, Razor Ramon, Gary Sabaugh, the Smoking Gunns, Mark Starr, Tatanka, Undertaker, Well Dunn, and Harvey Wippleman. The last five Raws of the modern era have had matches featuring: Cedric Alexander, Mustafa Ali, Alpha Academy, Asuka, Finn Balor, Bayley, Bianca Belair, Shelton Benjamin, Alexa Bliss, Baron Corbin, Nikki Cross, Elias, the Good Brothers, Dakota Kai, Candice Larae, Bobby Lashley, Dexter Loomis, Becky Lynch, The Miz, Dominik Mysterio, Kevin Owens, Damian Priest, Matt Riddle, Rhea Ripley, Seth Rollins, Solo Sikoa, IYO Sky, Street Profits, AJ Styles, Austin Theory, Akira Tozawa, the Usos, Mia Yim, Sami Zayn, and Dolph Ziggler. lovely booking/storylines are a given for both eras, and I have no desire to revisit either, but in terms of "cool talent" I feel like today has a huge leg up on 1995.
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Jan 16, 2023 19:34
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Edge & Christian posted:
I think it just comes down to personal preference bc while theres a lot of great (and awful) ppl in both, 95 has a huge leg up imo. edit: it may also be bc im in my early 20s so the 90s roster has a lot of people I never got to see live or saw long after their peak so have that kinda "old school cool" factor to me. Kvlt! fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jan 16, 2023 |
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Jan 16, 2023 19:41
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I think the worst era was the 2010-2012 period where it was all guest hosts and heel Cole. I honestly don’t watch enough to know if modern stuff is worse. Edge & Christian posted:Your mileage may vary but in the last five Raws of December 1994/January 1995 you had matches featuring: I miss those days.
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Jan 16, 2023 20:51
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I'd rather watch Logan Paul in an iron man match then watch British Bulldog vs Kwang or whatever.
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Jan 16, 2023 21:06
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New Generation was bad because the talent wasn’t great plus mediocre Vince booking. 2009-11 HD era was bad because *Orton & Cena vs Entire Raw Roster dot JPG* and mediocre talent. I stopped watching WWE in like 2018 because the booking and writing was loving awful and wasting the careers of very good talent, and there’s nothing I’ve seen to suggest that’s changed. Just watch AEW, NJPW or Anything Else instead.
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Jan 16, 2023 21:16
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Sometimes it's fun to watch the old wrestling where everyone just looked like a high school football coach or whatever.
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Jan 16, 2023 21:42
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95 had lower lows but had some highs whereas the last few years have been just consistently bland at best and it just ends up being more soul crushing. Plus you still have terrible stuff like Alexa Bliss' blinking doll.
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Jan 17, 2023 00:06
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Nativity In Black posted:Sometimes it's fun to watch the old wrestling where everyone just looked like a high school football coach or whatever. Arn Anderson is peak Wrestler Body, more of that please.
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Jan 17, 2023 00:13
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Arn Anderson is peak Wrestler Body, more of that please. My favorite guy for that is Eric Embry. We have almost the same body type but he could talk and wrestle like crazy. The champ is probably Buddy Rose during his 'I worked hard for this body' when he was shaped like a pear but could still do kip ups and one-armed pushups.
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Jan 17, 2023 00:18
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SatoshiMiwa posted:95 had lower lows but had some highs whereas the last few years have been just consistently bland at best and it just ends up being more soul crushing. Plus you still have terrible stuff like Alexa Bliss' blinking doll. The Sheamus Gunther match alone was better than almost everything in 95 WWF. If I had to, at gunpoint, watch Raw in 2023 or 1995 then I pick 95 because the shows are only 1 hour long & with those extra 2 hours I could watch almost entire show from a company I actually care about, but 1995 doesn't really have much worth revisiting. Ilja Dragunov probably had as many matches worth watching in 2022 as anyone not named Bret Hart in '95
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Jan 17, 2023 00:23
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95 had a Bret/Bulldog match and two good Shawn Michaels matches. That's it. Although I do have a weird kind of nostalgia for WWF from 94-97 because I didn't see any of it. I had to keep track of it through magazines and playground gossip. I like looking back on it, even if it's terrible. I absolutely could not sit through an episode of modern day Raw or SmackDown though.
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Jan 17, 2023 00:31
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Kosmo Gallion posted:95 had a Bret/Bulldog match and two good Shawn Michaels matches. That's it. The weird PCO & Hakushi Bret matches were good, & Hakushi vs Waltman at Summerslam. Definitely not much else. And there was a good Bret Diesel match
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Jan 17, 2023 00:37
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The Smoking Gunns and Razor/Kid had a few decent matches and Candido/Horowitz was good as well. 1995 had a talented roster but the booking is an example of doing the least with the most.
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Jan 17, 2023 01:18
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Yeah the match quality probably is better the last few years than in 95 but also as forkboy84 said Raw and Smackdown alone are 5 hours which makes it worse in my opinion
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Jan 17, 2023 01:57
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I think what gets lost a ton about wrestling then is on tv you never even see the bigger/better stars. You see Lex Luther vs Mantaur or Tanaka vs Guy with a singlet over a shirt until the PPVs.
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Jan 17, 2023 08:19
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:Lex Luther vs Mantaur I always marked out for the Legion of Doom.
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Jan 17, 2023 15:02
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:I think what gets lost a ton about wrestling then is on tv you never even see the bigger/better stars. You see Lex Luther vs Mantaur or Tanaka vs Guy with a singlet over a shirt until the PPVs. i mean its not just then its not like you see Roman Reigns wrestle outside of PPVs nowadays
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Jan 17, 2023 16:59
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Gavok posted:I always marked out for the Legion of Doom. What a rush
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Jan 17, 2023 17:45
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Kvlt! posted:i mean its not just then its not like you see Roman Reigns wrestle outside of PPVs nowadays The Other Owen (Hart) was one of the workhorses of 1995 Raw, and he had 21 matches on the show that year. Some of them were 'real' matches against Bret, Razor, and Michaels, but many of them had him facing off against a baby Jeff Hardy, Gus Kantarakis, Jim Dimitri, Nick Barberi, Larry Santo, etc. Other big cool names from 1995 WWF didn't even hit double digits for appearances on Raw (Bret, Shawn, and Undertaker all did between 7 and 9 matches) and most recognizable names settled in with a number in the teens, inclusive of the jobber matches. You can argue the pros and cons of 'protecting' your stars but anyone under fifty not named Roman Reigns and who has never held a UFC belt is wrestling significantly more often in real matches on TV now than 1995. Hell, even Ronda wrestled 15 TV matches in 2022, more than most New Generation stars. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Jan 17, 2023 |
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Jan 17, 2023 18:27
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Gavok posted:I always marked out for the Legion of Doom. Wrestling needs more Legion of Doom style stables. Just give me all the heels, no matter how disparate, teaming up to whoop some babyface butt.
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Jan 17, 2023 19:18
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Sandman McMahon posted:Wrestling needs more Legion of Doom style stables. Just give me all the heels, no matter how disparate, teaming up to whoop some babyface butt. Yea, it's a thing in wrestling that kinda never made sense to me that relationships in wrestling don't really seem to be carried on all that much. Say you have a heel who has been cheating to win or a dominant heel stable who continually does run ins NWO style, why do the people who have been dunked on in such a way not do anything about it? Like everyone MJF ever hits with a diamond ring start coming out to try to intercept him from doing it to someone else. Yea, yea, I know writers convenience, but in a world where referee's are blind and somewhat incompetent it seems like other wrestlers would try to do something about the one rear end in a top hat stable/person cheating all the time.
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Jan 17, 2023 19:39
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