January Games Chat: Happy New Super Mario Bros

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RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

The big fuckup with adaptability isn't the iframe thing, it's not telling you that and also tying your sippy speed to it

# ? Jan 18, 2023 17:45

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# ? May 30, 2024 01:16

Vermain: Sep 5, 2006

RBA Starblade posted:

The big fuckup with adaptability isn't the iframe thing, it's not telling you that and also tying your sippy speed to it

no disagreements here, although lacking documentation for basic game mechanics and being needlessly obtuse is a fromsoft special, like when no one knew what the gently caress poise did in DS3 and fromsoft's only reply was, "poise is working as intended. well, seeya"

# ? Jan 18, 2023 17:48

Sakurazuka: Jan 24, 2004; NANI?

Jordan7hm posted:

Me too, but the best games let me use two big swords

DS2 is good for this too

# ? Jan 18, 2023 17:48

Jordan7hm: Feb 17, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

My biggest complaint about ds2 is that the power progression is done well before the game is done (or was for me).

# ? Jan 18, 2023 17:48

Ibram Gaunt: Jul 22, 2009

I like how DS2 has a secret tree that if you whip shudders in delight and covers you in repair powder. Such a weird thing to include lol.

# ? Jan 18, 2023 17:49

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

It seems like the real people who needed to level up their adaptability... were the gamers themselves!

# ? Jan 18, 2023 17:50

Foul Fowl: Sep 12, 2008; Uuuuh! Seek ye me?

Vermain posted:

leveling VIG in ER directly allows you to play more aggressively and take more risks than you otherwise would be able to, even pre-mountaintops, which is elementary to making the game fun and not a slog

it also must be said that DS2 hands out free levels like candy, so the adaptability tax is a one-and-done thing you can get over with in an hour or two, whereas ER demands a significant chunk of your leveling experience be devoted to turning you into something other than wet cardboard

i don't think the two are equivalent although i'm not a fan of vigour in ER. but you're still playing the same game with vigour or no vigour. you can be as aggressive as you want. HP is just a cushion for your mistakes but it doesn't make those mistakes more or less likely. you still have access to the exact same universal mechanics and they work the same. you just die quicker if you mess up.

DS2 without ADP feels so bad to play because it makes those mistakes a lot more likely. things you should be dodge rolling are hitting you. and because the game doesn't tell you about it, you're wondering what the gently caress they did to make this game so lovely. also makes your guy drink estus like a pensioner looking for change in their purse. truly a wart on the face of a wonderful game.

# ? Jan 18, 2023 17:54

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Spellcaster nerds in From games are always used to having to level up some bullshit imaginary stat so ADP was not a big deal nor a surprise to me.

# ? Jan 18, 2023 17:56

Vermain: Sep 5, 2006

Foul Fowl posted:

i don't think the two are equivalent although i'm not a fan of vigour in ER. but you're still playing the same game with vigour or no vigour. you can be as aggressive as you want. HP is just a cushion for your mistakes but it doesn't make those mistakes more or less likely. you still have access to the exact same universal mechanics and they work the same. you just die quicker if you mess up.

DS2 without ADP feels so bad to play because it makes those mistakes a lot more likely. things you should be dodge rolling are hitting you. and because the game doesn't tell you about it, you're wondering what the gently caress they did to make this game so lovely. also makes your guy drink estus like a pensioner looking for change in their purse. truly a wart on the face of a wonderful game.

they both function to provide a cushion for less-than-optimal play: high vigor in elden ring means that you aren't instantly put on the ropes for making a mistake, and high adaptability in DS2 means that you can afford to time your rolls and their direction more haphazardly. they're both buttressing player error, just in different ways

the buried lede here, of course, is that they're both nonsense things to have in an RPG with character building choices, since they're simply system mastery traps for new players to get caught in and then get disgruntled because the game developers assumed that everyone would pump X amount into the stat instead of simply designing their systems to not require that level of meta knowledge from the player

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:02

Volte: Oct 4, 2004; woosh woosh

Vermain posted:

the buried lede here, of course, is that they're both nonsense things to have in an RPG with character building choices, since they're simply system mastery traps for new players to get caught in and then get disgruntled because the game developers assumed that everyone would pump X amount into the stat instead of simply designing their systems to not require that level of meta knowledge from the player

I'm sorry, are you saying that you think that "more health = die less" is deep meta knowledge?

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:07

The 7th Guest: Dec 17, 2003

forspoken opens with you on trial, making it the second game to do so since Mario Sunshine

idk how trials usually go but do they usually just put your high school diploma on a table for you and ask you to look at it lol

e: what

what the gently caress kind of trial is this. you're on trial for robbery. here's a picture of you being found as a baby. any questions??

The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jan 18, 2023

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:08

Vermain: Sep 5, 2006

Volte posted:

I'm sorry, are you saying that you think that "more health = die less" is deep meta knowledge?

i'm saying that the approximate expectation of where your health should be at any given point in the game isn't telegraphed by the game itself, and putting a couple points into vigor doesn't provide an immediate and tangible increase in your survivability, so it's easy to fall into the trap of not leveling it up because you don't think it will actually do anything

please believe me when i say that i've done enough coop in elden ring to know that the idea that increasing your health is de facto good is, in fact, a vanishingly rare concept

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:10

Jay Rust: Sep 27, 2011

Tbf the elden ring thread did and probably does still get goons coming in with "i have 99 str and 10 vig, someone who is good at stats help me my family is dying" posts

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:15

Gaius Marius: Oct 9, 2012

is not forspoken the game with the cringe core dialogue and fantasy setting, what is this judiciary set up doing in it?

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:16

Waffleman_: Jan 20, 2011; I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

Gaius Marius posted:

is not forspoken the game with the cringe core dialogue and fantasy setting, what is this judiciary set up doing in it?

It's an isekai.

Also

https://twitter.com/PlayStation/status/1615759845625298951?s=20

wh

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:17

Feels Villeneuve: Oct 7, 2007; Setter is Better.

thats a weird metroid reboot

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:18

wuggles: Jul 12, 2017

I didn't love playing Nier:A but it's got the best ending of any game I've ever played

Feels Villeneuve posted:

Astral Chain really was a much better executed way of combining JRPG with action game than Nier Automata even if N:A was better written

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:22

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

Clean your house Lara, it's filthy.

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:24

The 7th Guest: Dec 17, 2003

Gaius Marius posted:

is not forspoken the game with the cringe core dialogue and fantasy setting, what is this judiciary set up doing in it?

it's the prologue

the judge within the same scene releases the defendant and sentences them to 120 hours of community service, which seems weird since it was a felony charge (grand larceny) and the protagonist's third felony charge as well. but not as weird as making them look at their high school diploma and newspaper article of them being found as an orphaned baby, which serves no purpose in an initial hearing other than square not having any other way in their minds to set up the protagonist's backstory

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:26

Foul Fowl: Sep 12, 2008; Uuuuh! Seek ye me?

Vermain posted:

they both function to provide a cushion for less-than-optimal play: high vigor in elden ring means that you aren't instantly put on the ropes for making a mistake, and high adaptability in DS2 means that you can afford to time your rolls and their direction more haphazardly. they're both buttressing player error, just in different ways

the buried lede here, of course, is that they're both nonsense things to have in an RPG with character building choices, since they're simply system mastery traps for new players to get caught in and then get disgruntled because the game developers assumed that everyone would pump X amount into the stat instead of simply designing their systems to not require that level of meta knowledge from the player

idk, i mean i can see your point but to me elden ring's really fun even with low health, you're playing the same game you just have to play really good. ds2 feels real bad to play without enough agility. it's not about optimal play - i don't think anyone regardless of skill level skips levelling ADP unless you're doing a SL1 thing - it's about being able to engage with the game on the same terms as the other games in the series, and on the terms it really feels like it was designed for. without levelling ADP it feels like you're playing a different and much worse game.

Foul Fowl fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Jan 18, 2023

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:27

Feels Villeneuve: Oct 7, 2007; Setter is Better.

Square realized that instead of having western studios they could simply hire western writers to make a bad game

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:28

Ms. Unsmiley: Feb 13, 2012

bayo 3 was really good. way better than 2. 1 is still the goat though

Mr E posted:

Then the announcement of a full priced prequel thing in a few months so soon after 3 just made it all suck more.

why lol. it looks super cute

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:29

Help Im Alive: Nov 8, 2009

It seems unusual to let everyone know your cool treasure hunter protagonist lives in their own filth but I guess she only had a single butler (the house is also haunted if I remember the DLC from the last game??)

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:29

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."

IDK every Souls game has at least a few ways you can very quickly and decisively make the entire experience much worse for yourself that are never fully explained. I don't think Adaptability is even especially remarkable other than the novelty of it.

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:31

Bananasaurus Rex: Mar 19, 2009

Jay Rust posted:

Tbf the elden ring thread did and probably does still get goons coming in with "i have 99 str and 10 vig, someone who is good at stats help me my family is dying" posts

I knew how important vig was from playing past souls games. But damnit I wanted to make my str/fai build work asap! So i opted to forgo it in the early game.

After getting obliterated by Margot, respecced to a faith build (shameful), dumping the excess points in vig. And holy hell does it make a difference. Gives very generous hp scaling in the early levels. Meanwhile damage stats don't scale that great until later.

So yeah, kind of similar to DS2 ADP. That was also kind of night and day once I leveled it. Tho maybe that was more of a placebo effect goin on.

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:32

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Feels Villeneuve posted:

Square realized that instead of having western studios they could simply hire western writers to make a bad game

They've never needed to do that before

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:34

Jay Rust: Sep 27, 2011

exquisite tea posted:

IDK every Souls game has at least a few ways you can very quickly and decisively make the entire experience much worse for yourself that are never fully explained. I don't think Adaptability is even especially remarkable other than the novelty of it.

Like what?

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:37

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Jay Rust posted:

Like what?

99 points in Resistance

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:39

Khanstant: Apr 5, 2007

in the first dark souls you can choose to fall off the level and then respawn and do it again and again and a lot of people who ended up doing that just quit the game

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:40

Saint Freak: Apr 16, 2007; Regretting is an insult to oneself; Buglord

Please powerwash my Excalibur and T-Rex skeleton. Yes they are real.

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:40

Jay Rust: Sep 27, 2011

RBA Starblade posted:

99 points in Resistance

Ok how do YOU get through the poison swamp?

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:40

Khanstant: Apr 5, 2007

them rings and that like weird poo poo in a napkin

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:41

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Jay Rust posted:

Ok how do YOU get through the poison swamp?

One poisoned foot at a time

# ? Jan 18, 2023 18:42

exquisite tea: Apr 21, 2007; Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."