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actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

Willa Rogers posted:

$345/sq ft, lol.

yeah but if you look at the price history, it's just blackrock flipping bullshit

the actual value by the city is 260K, which is what i expect it will actually sell for

euphronius posted:

how much is your retainer ?? why would you pay a retainer ?

for legal questions? not sure I understand. this is not a large sum or anything, I think a few thousand. When we need legal advice, we ask our lawyer, she bills in 15 minute increments (lol). for last year, we budgeted 2k and spent 1k of that

also we have entered into litigation previously. people thought they could rent out units, and our lawyer clarified they could not. it went to court and they got pwned

actionjackson has issued a correction as of 20:54 on Jan 17, 2023

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euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

do houses generally cost less per sq ft as you get to huge houses like 10,000 sq ft?

I guess there is less demand for them

RandomBlue
Dec 30, 2012

hay guys!


Biscuit Hider

actionjackson posted:

never live in a condo if it's not recently built (generally that means they are not able to "catch up" with any more recently passed state legislation), and you aren't in a state that has really good association laws like I do

it's really hard to comment on specific fees though because you have no idea what it's actually paying for. Also where any of those co-ops? In that case it's way higher, but there they pay for way more poo poo, like your flooring, appliances, HVAC, etc.

When I actually broke down my fees and saw our finances (because I'm on our board now), I found that of my dues of 350/month, around 70% of that is for "current" costs, things like landscaping, shoveling, master insurance policy, water/sewer/electric gas being the biggest ones. The other 30% is to fund reserves, which is stuff we need to do in the future - we have to have everything budgeted out for 30 years. The biggest items by far here are the roofs and the asphalt.

The thing is, most of these things I would either have to pay for in a detached home, or I could do myself, but I'd prefer not to, so I would probably pay someone. And for the reserves, that's no different than saving up for major work on a house, like anything for the roof, siding, whatever. So there's really not that big of a difference. I mean we are talking about 4200/year for all my housing "maintenance" costs which seems like a pretty good deal to me. I know people who have spent more on one maintenance cost for their home than I have in 11 years living here

Also condos are small (mine is <1k SF). Very few detached homes are small because America - unless it's a really old house, which can obviously have plenty of it's own issues. I also really like having one floor. Yes there are houses like this, but it's not exactly common.

Who spends $42,000 in maintenance for a home over a decade? You're kidding yourself here.

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

RandomBlue posted:

Who spends $42,000 in maintenance for a home over a decade? You're kidding yourself here.

this is not just maintenance, it's expenses relating to what I'll just call outside elements - roofs, siding, landscaping, etc. whether required or voluntary. I have a friend who just paid 80K just to install a patio so eh

The best comparison I can make is to estimate the cost of replacing your roof, replacing asphalt, doing all your landscaping, doing any work you want on the exterior, for starters. This would also include things that aren't always necessary, but people do because they enjoy the improvements, want to increase home value, or both.

actionjackson has issued a correction as of 21:01 on Jan 17, 2023

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

42k over ten years doesn’t sound outrageous for a house maintenance spending on where it is in its life cycle

Paradoxish
Dec 19, 2003

Will you stop going crazy in there?

RandomBlue posted:

Who spends $42,000 in maintenance for a home over a decade? You're kidding yourself here.

It's not too far off. I bet HOA fees generally cost more on average because you can't benefit from lucking out on the life cycle of things like your roof or HVAC system, but $4200/year in maintenance and repairs is going to be in the ballpark for any decently-sized house.

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

and again small houses are in VERY limited supply, and often they have plenty of other issues. i would also be open to a duplex, quadplex, etc. but there aren't many of those either. townhomes are too big, and are multilevel, which I don't want (when my previous greyhound got really old I was SO GLAD I did not have stairs).

We even have a few things where I get a lower price then if I purchased it alone, because of bulk rates. I know the internet service that we added to our fees because it's a bulk service costs each resident about $32/month. The cost if you bought it as an individual was over $100.

If you are someone that REALLY likes working on your home, and doing a lot of poo poo on your own, yes it will normally be less to live in a detached home (though again, those houses are larger, which means costs overall go up). But I have no interest in that. At the very least, I could imagine if I had a house, I would immediately nuke the yard and replace it with a low or no maintenance option (not cheap I'm sure).

how much do things like roof replacement, asphalt replacement, any sort of foundation repair (if needed), etc. tend to cost?

Paradoxish posted:

It's not too far off. I bet HOA fees generally cost more on average because you can't benefit from lucking out on the life cycle of things like your roof or HVAC system, but $4200/year in maintenance and repairs is going to be in the ballpark for any decently-sized house.

that's true since you have to pay into reserves, however it is true that with a detached home, one that has had HVAC or a roof recently replaced will sell for a bit more than one that hasn't.

actionjackson has issued a correction as of 21:09 on Jan 17, 2023

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Ornery and Hornery posted:

condos seem to have a much less insane price change trend

the shortage is detached SFH on a reasonable lots.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




euphronius posted:

do houses generally cost less per sq ft as you get to huge houses like 10,000 sq ft?

I guess there is less demand for them

yeah price per sf goes down as they get bigger. basically the line where that starts happening is above what the median buyer can afford.

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


Bar Ran Dun posted:

the shortage is detached SFH on a reasonable lots.

rowhouses go for more in the city here than detached SFH for some reason

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

detchaed homes for sale in minneapolis - 338

by square footage

4k+ 17
3500-4000 6
3000-3500 11
2500-3000 11
2000-2500 46
1500-2000 90
1000-1500 120
<1k 42

wow 42 (they are mostly post-ww2 houses that are falling apart)

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




basically 1500 is good for a family of four with a guest room for nana. it’s what everybody wants. but lol nobody makes it.

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


Same as the car industry, there's more money to be made selling one $100K luxo-barge to one guy than four $25K commuter cars to four guys so that's what they do.

I wonder what the term for this is.

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

the exterior of this home is dope as hell, but I'm unclear how someone with <80% AMI (which for here would be <56K) is supposed to afford a 365K home

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/914-19th-Ave-NE-Minneapolis-MN-55418/101660688_zpid/

Wraith of J.O.I.
Jan 25, 2012


actionjackson posted:

the exterior of this home is dope as hell, but I'm unclear how someone with <80% AMI (which for here would be <56K) is supposed to afford a 365K home

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/914-19th-Ave-NE-Minneapolis-MN-55418/101660688_zpid/

no garage (in minneapolis lol) and no closets (wtf)..... weird....... maybe that's why it hasn't sold since being listed in september (with no price drops lol —— defiant!!)

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

Wraith of J.O.I. posted:

no garage (in minneapolis lol) and no closets (wtf)..... weird....... maybe that's why it hasn't sold since being listed in september (with no price drops lol —— defiant!!)

yes no garage was funny. I think the price might actually be fixed, given it's part of this government program.

Corb Fucker
Dec 6, 2022

:dehumanize:

actionjackson posted:

detchaed homes for sale in minneapolis - 338

by square footage

4k+ 17
3500-4000 6
3000-3500 11
2500-3000 11
2000-2500 46
1500-2000 90
1000-1500 120
<1k 42

wow 42 (they are mostly post-ww2 houses that are falling apart)

this is unfair, don't forget we also have an endless barrage of 1-1.5k square foot apartments in those ugly loving god awful death trap 5-over-1 called poo poo like "mirages" or "glenvista on pine" or whatever, with the low, low HOA fee of 1800-2400 dollars for the privilege of having the smelliest sub-motel quality gym facilities and trash service.

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

Corb Fucker posted:

this is unfair, don't forget we also have an endless barrage of 1-1.5k square foot apartments in those ugly loving god awful death trap 5-over-1 called poo poo like "mirages" or "glenvista on pine" or whatever, with the low, low HOA fee of 1800-2400 dollars for the privilege of having the smelliest sub-motel quality gym facilities and trash service.

by HOA fee did you mean rent?

i actually love how those buildings look because i'm a modernist slut, but is there actually a safety issue with them?

sonatinas
Apr 15, 2003

Seattle Karate Vs. L.A. Karate

Bar Ran Dun posted:

basically 1500 is good for a family of four with a guest room for nana. it’s what everybody wants. but lol nobody makes it.

yep. ours is 1500 and for a family of 3 with spare room for guests it works real well. but yeah, you have to move into an older house that has good upkeep to get in a place like that.

new builds would be like a mansion to us. I’m so used to pre ww2 room sizes now

Spergin Morlock
Aug 8, 2009

"I really want to live in a walkable neighborhood"

/ends up in a 5 over one with a wells Fargo branch and pediatric dentist on the first floor and neither has designated parking

Fitzy Fitz
May 14, 2005




Spergin Morlock posted:

"I really want to live in a walkable neighborhood"

/ends up in a 5 over one with a wells Fargo branch and pediatric dentist on the first floor and neither has designated parking

This sounds nice

Spergin Morlock
Aug 8, 2009

Fitzy Fitz posted:

This sounds nice

I would prefer the two businesses be a sandwich shop and a coffee spot, but they always seem to be dentists and banks

Adjectivist Philosophy
Oct 6, 2003

When you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.

euphronius posted:

your realtor doesn’t work for you if you are a buyer

it’s a total scam

one of these least ethical jobs out there.

I don't know if this is universal but every residential realtor I've encountered seems to have the same delusions about being self made entrepreneurs or something. As if they weren't selling a product that would have a buyer whether or not they existed at all. Just absolutely zero self awareness.

Joementum
May 23, 2004

jesus christ

quote:

PLEASE READ BEFORE REQUESTING TO SHOW. SELLERS WILL ONLY LIKE FOR PEOPLE TO VIEW THE PROPERTY THROUGH THE VIRTUAL MATTERPORT VIDEO. ONCE UNDER CONTRACT, THEN AN IN PERSON SHOWING CAN HAPPEN. THE SELLERS WOULD LIKE A POST OCCUPANCY FOR UP TO 16 MONTHS WHICH HE WILL GLADLY PAY A MONTHLY RATE FOR. Turn-Key immaculate 5 bedroom 3 1/2 bathroom, pool home. Renovated in and out. Fresh new coat of exterior paint, brand new impact windows, new open kitchen w/ granite countertops, new wood grain tile floors, and new SS appliances. It has a beautiful spiral staircase that shows like a piece of art that ascends to the 25 foot ceilings above. Huge master BR w/ a walk-in closet w/ 4 BR upstairs. Bathrooms have been upgraded. Stunning huge backyard for relaxing and entertaining. LOW HOA

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1227-Creekside-Dr-Wellington-FL-33414/71096233_zpid/

RandomBlue
Dec 30, 2012

hay guys!


Biscuit Hider

actionjackson posted:

this is not just maintenance, it's expenses relating to what I'll just call outside elements - roofs, siding, landscaping, etc. whether required or voluntary. I have a friend who just paid 80K just to install a patio so eh

The best comparison I can make is to estimate the cost of replacing your roof, replacing asphalt, doing all your landscaping, doing any work you want on the exterior, for starters. This would also include things that aren't always necessary, but people do because they enjoy the improvements, want to increase home value, or both.

Installing a patio and home improvement is not maintenance, and those things aren't typically covered by the fees you're paying anyway.

Paradoxish posted:

It's not too far off. I bet HOA fees generally cost more on average because you can't benefit from lucking out on the life cycle of things like your roof or HVAC system, but $4200/year in maintenance and repairs is going to be in the ballpark for any decently-sized house.

Roofing and HVAC prices vary according to the size of your home. Asphalt shingle replacement is $8-15k for average size houses around here and we replaced our AC system completely, except ducts, for ~$5k a few years ago. Neither of these things are things that happen every 10 years.

Though around here roof replacement is usually due to accumulated hail damage, which is covered by home insurance, but for the sake of argument we'll say that's OOP. These prices are for an ~1800sq/ft home, pretty average sized.

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

Well yes I wasn't exactly serious about the patio being comparable.

If you want to argue that you can spend less with a detached home - well sure, maybe. depends on the house, but also of course on your willingness to do a lot of things some people don't like doing. I think if I had my own home, knowing what I would want to do myself and pay for, that there would not be a substantial difference in cost. I also would point out that several things my fees cover are things you have to pay for anyway - insurance, water, sewer, gas. Also because houses tend to be so much larger on average, I could easily have higher expenses in that case. Perhaps if they built small houses on small lots I'd be more interested.

War and Pieces
Apr 24, 2022

DID NOT VOTE FOR FETTERMAN

Willa Rogers posted:

interior = wreck confirmed, from the one inside pic on the listing.

lmao, a teardown that can't be torn down.

This is far from a wreck this looks like something immediately livable.

Willa Rogers
Mar 11, 2005

War and Pieces posted:

This is far from a wreck this looks like something immediately livable.

I see ceiling (water?) damage & a wrecked floor.

But the real tell is that this was the only interior photo.

Willa Rogers
Mar 11, 2005

Beautiful ceiling fixture, tho; I wonder if it's original.

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

condo seems good if you avoid any massive imminent expenses for like a new roof or whatever

BIG-DICK-BUTT-FUCK
Jan 26, 2016

by Fluffdaddy

Ornery and Hornery posted:

condo seems good if you avoid any massive imminent expenses for like a new roof or whatever

having to deal w the type of Hall monitor who would volunteer for a condo association often sucks

also having to share ownership w the rest of the dipshits in your building can suck too. not always but you cant really tell if its a good or bad situation until 3-6 months in.

Nothus
Feb 22, 2001

Buglord

actionjackson posted:

i actually love how those buildings look because i'm a modernist slut, but is there actually a safety issue with them?

As long as the sprinkler system works, they're legally safe. Once neglect sets in all those cheap materials and engineered wood are going to make them fire traps.

They also age really poorly. I've lived in several and after about 5 years they start to fill with mold.

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

Ornery and Hornery posted:

condo seems good if you avoid any massive imminent expenses for like a new roof or whatever

we actually are replacing all our roofs right now, but we have a wind/hail damage insurance claim, so it's actually a windfall for the association. All I will owe is my $500 deductible on my loss assessment. not bad for a roof

but actually things like a roof are budgeted decades ahead. it's not like one day everyone has to pay a huge amount to replace the roof. that is why you have something called a reserve study.

BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:

having to deal w the type of Hall monitor who would volunteer for a condo association often sucks

oh like me? haha. i think there are some upsides though, mainly because i'm one of only five people that has any power. It's also nice to know how everything actually works.

what happens if you live in a detached home and you have lovely neighbors? you've never heard the phrase "neighbor from hell" before? you can't do poo poo. but if you are in an HOA board, often you can. Just imagine you are in your detached home of freedom, and your neighbor decides to make a ton of noise at an ungodly hour, or run a gas leaf blower, or have terrible, blinding lighting. you are out of luck. but here i was involved in getting proper lighting, and in having our landscape company switch to electric leaf blowers, as examples.

also sure you can have bad neighbors. but i also have some really great neighbors who i've had valuable relationships with. it has also been really nice to have other people around since covid started and I was 100% WFH.

actionjackson has issued a correction as of 18:54 on Jan 18, 2023

actionjackson
Jan 12, 2003

take a look at this absolute galaxy brain

actually believing that houses prices are going to magically come down again

also does he not realize that in many cases, rents are higher than mortgage payments

https://www.startribune.com/singletary-five-reasons-why-you-shouldnt-buy-a-house-right-now/600212319/ (paywall)

quote:

Singletary: Five reasons why you shouldn't buy a house right now
Inflation and rising interest rates are throwing the conventional wisdom about home ownership for a loop. 
October 2, 2022 — 2:00pm

You've probably been told repeatedly by your momma, daddy, financial experts, real estate agents and bankers to buy a home.

Renting is too often — and incorrectly — viewed as just throwing good money away. The sooner you buy a home, the sooner you can become rich with home equity, is the money mantra you keep hearing.

While it's true that you can add to your net worth by owning a home that appreciates in value, it's not always clear when buying a home makes the most economic sense for you.

Homeownership for many is the key to achieving the American Dream of prosperity. But does it make sense to defer that dream in a still-recovering economy?

At a time of high inflation and rising interest rates, that sage advice to buy a home may not be in your best financial interest.

Some folks, in part because of rising interest rates, are realizing now is not the right time to buy. In July, 16% of home-purchase agreements fell through as buyers backed out of their contracts, according to an analysis by Redfin.

It was the highest percentage of canceled home purchases on record except for March and April 2020, Redfin said.

Here are five reasons you shouldn't buy a home right now.

Home prices are still too high

Although the housing market is showing signs of cooling down, it's still pricey for many families.

About half of Americans — 49% — say the availability of affordable housing in their local community is a major problem, up 10 percentage points from early 2018, according to a Pew Research Center report released at the end of 2021.

Don't forget one of the important lessons of the Great Recession, which is that home values can come crashing down. People who purchased at the height of the housing boom had to learn the hard way that homes don't always appreciate.

In a hot housing market, you can buy too high and then be unable to sell your home and make a profit if an economic downturn or recession causes home prices to drop.

And can I throw in this extra piece of advice?

Don't overestimate the tax advantage of homeownership. Often, home buyers point to a mortgage deduction as a big reason to buy a home. Yet many homeowners with mortgages don't receive the tax break because they don't itemize their federal tax returns.

The 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act nearly doubled the standard deduction, resulting in fewer taxpayers itemizing deductions on their tax returns.

You need time to build a better credit history

With interest rates rising, you need to do what you can to get your credit score as high as possible. FICO, the scoring model most lenders use, ranges from a low of 300 to a high of 850.

Lenders consider your credit score in determining the interest rate and payment terms on a mortgage loan. The higher your score, the better deal you may get. Even a few points' difference can push you into a pricing tier that can increase the cost of your loan.

"A higher credit score helps ensure that you'll qualify for the most affordable mortgage loan," said Bruce McClary, senior vice president of membership and communications at the National Foundation for Credit Counseling. "Rising mortgage interest rates make it even more important to review your credit report and address any items that might negatively influence your score."

McClary highly recommends aiming for a score over 700.

It will wipe out all your savings

If purchasing a home will clean out your rainy-day fund, you might want to rethink your timing.

If the economy gets worse and unemployment ticks up, you don't want to be in the position of losing a job and not having enough savings to cover your mortgage and other expenses for at least a couple of months.

As a homeowner, the maintenance and repairs of your property are on you. If you want to keep up your property value or increase it over time, you have to maintain it, which may mean making home improvements.


I'll just get a home warranty policy, you might argue.

Based on my own experience with various home warranty policies, having one doesn't guarantee you will get your appliance repaired or replaced in a timely manner. For each visit to fix something that was broken, I had to pay a service fee ranging from $100 to $125, which is on top of the monthly or annual fee for the policy.

High monthly mortgage payments won't leave much cushion in your budget

When qualifying for a mortgage, lenders allow for some debt. But the lending process doesn't account for the money you need to have in your budget to save for retirement or a college fund for your child or children.

If you buy a home before you are economically ready, it can drag you down financially.

There are signs that the hot housing market is cooling

For the first time since 2008, the 30-year fixed rate exceeded 6%, according to Freddie Mac's national average.

Higher mortgage rates can make it more difficult for some buyers to qualify for a mortgage. Fewer buyers manically bidding up available homes can have the effect of lowering home prices. Less demand, potentially lower prices.

Wait, and you may get a better deal because there's less competition for available homes.

Yes, homeownership is one path to prosperity. But patience in the current economic environment can also work in your favor.


Singletary is personal finance columnist for the Washington Post.

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


Patiently working my way to prosperity as my pay goes up 2% every year and my expenses go up 18%

i am harry
Oct 14, 2003

actionjackson posted:

take a look at this absolute galaxy brain

"Don't forget one of the important lessons of the Great Recession, which is that home values can come crashing down. People who purchased at the height of the housing boom had to learn the hard way that homes don't always appreciate."


literally every house in the country has appreciated since.

Ornery and Hornery
Oct 22, 2020

BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:

having to deal w the type of Hall monitor who would volunteer for a condo association often sucks

also having to share ownership w the rest of the dipshits in your building can suck too. not always but you cant really tell if its a good or bad situation until 3-6 months in.

yeah.

I’m just trying to convince myself it will be okay, because j won’t be able to afford anything other than a condo :smith:

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Bar Ran Dun posted:

basically 1500 is good for a family of four with a guest room for nana. it’s what everybody wants. but lol nobody makes it.

yeah that’s what they built in the 60s and 70s

and a bit into the 80s when it changed over to whatever this garbage is

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


i am harry posted:

literally every house in the country has appreciated since.

The smart money shows in 2009 were encouraging people who owed more on their homes than they were worth to leave their keys on the counter and walk away! The companies that bought those properties were the biggest winners from the great recession. fucks sake

If you lived through that poo poo and saw how the "news" media that people trusted hung them out to dry, the narrative now can be a little shocking

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2022/01/24/independent-lens-owned-a-tale-of-two-americas

Watch the first ten minutes of this documentary if you can, there's a realtor driving around empty developments in California in 2009 lamenting that he couldn't sell anything and the loving prices were like "low 240s"

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Ferdinand Bardamu
Apr 30, 2013
My union (local gov't) just announced our new three year contract.

January cost of living increases:
2023 - 3%
2024 -2.75%
2025 -2.25%

I know people who work in gov't in other parts of the US, and they got 8% COLA (not including any merit increase) this year and probably for the foreseeable future too. Someone in suburban King County told me two out of their four health care plan options cost $0/month for a single or couple. Also, our contribution to medical insurance went up 20%. :fuckoff:

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