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One thing to remember about deficit spending is that there's a huuuge difference between doing it as a great power vs doing it as an unrecognized minor, since GPs get way lower interest rates than non-GPs do. As an unrecognized power you will have a hard time outgrowing your debt just by boosting your GDP and the associated credit limit, and you can way easier fall into a debt spiral. You can try gambling a bit by making sure you have good relations with the GPs and see if they'll take on your debt, but they usually won't offer to until you're so far in debt you can't get out on your own, so yeah, gambling. Taking a break from expansion to pay off debt is much more necessary when playing non-GPs.
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Jan 18, 2023 10:37
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AG3 posted:One thing to remember about deficit spending is that there's a huuuge difference between doing it as a great power vs doing it as an unrecognized minor, since GPs get way lower interest rates than non-GPs do. As an unrecognized power you will have a hard time outgrowing your debt just by boosting your GDP and the associated credit limit, and you can way easier fall into a debt spiral. You can try gambling a bit by making sure you have good relations with the GPs and see if they'll take on your debt, but they usually won't offer to until you're so far in debt you can't get out on your own, so yeah, gambling. Taking a break from expansion to pay off debt is much more necessary when playing non-GPs. This. A laissez faire GP has almost no interest rate and their investment pool will almost certainly grow to outpace any deficit spending. A minor power will drown in interest payments, especially if they have no investment pool and are stuck on traditionalism. It's a tough balance to grow as fast as possible without getting yourself into a ruinous spiral, and if your neighbors come knocking for a war, you might not have much of a choice.
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Jan 18, 2023 17:03
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Looks like we're likely to get some more automation options for Vanilla! I hope they integrated the Automation mod from the Workshop, that works pretty well and changes depending on which Economics law you have. https://twitter.com/PDXVictoria/status/1615725827307470855
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Jan 18, 2023 19:21
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what’s the point of this feature if it’s going to be automated and isn’t one of the core issues with the game
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Jan 19, 2023 00:50
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The end game becoming tedious due to the lack of production automation is one of the core issues with the game.
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Jan 19, 2023 01:05
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If you're playing any sort of Liberal market country you should have next to no control of what is being built in you country excepting military materiel. That would do a lot to make the game actually feel like a simulation of the Era rather than a map painter with a coat of paint.
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Jan 19, 2023 01:13
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The end game becoming tedious due to the lack of production automation is one of the core issues with the game. it’s not due to the lack of production automation, it’s due to the construction queue clearly not being designed for scale after the first 20 years. the answer to that is only automation if you’re not questioning the design, and have no real vision for where the game should go.
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Jan 19, 2023 01:23
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although honestly a better UI/UX for it would be better than wasting resources on automation lmao
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Jan 19, 2023 01:26
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Gaius Marius posted:If you're playing any sort of Liberal market country you should have next to no control of what is being built in you country excepting military materiel. That would do a lot to make the game actually feel like a simulation of the Era rather than a map painter with a coat of paint. Getting industrialization off the ground was outside Britain always a government project, and even that needed the enclosing of the commons. The US government literally built a transcontinental railroad, sure they hired it out to companies but they subsidized it, paid for it, seized peoples homes for the land it was built on, it was their goal and they paid for it. Even Laissez Faire governments were deeply invested in the market, The famines under the British empires yolk were straight up government policy. (Charity distorts the market but forcing people to change crops for export doesn't, don't cha know?)
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Jan 19, 2023 01:56
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WhitemageofDOOM posted:The US government literally built a transcontinental railroad, sure they hired it out to companies but they subsidized it, paid for it, seized peoples homes for the land it was built on, it was their goal and they paid for it. Exactly, If I'm playing a country I should be constantly forced into making backroom deals with Capitalists and politicians to get things done. Your country should be just as much an enemy to grapple with as foreign problems, and you should be forced to make awful deals with the devil in order to gain the prestige and power you need to influence the wider world. Vicky III has none of that, your POPS and political movements are totally impotent, your only limit is how long it takes to pass all the good laws so you win even faster over the incompetent AI
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Jan 19, 2023 02:04
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WhitemageofDOOM posted:Getting industrialization off the ground was outside Britain always a government project, and even that needed the enclosing of the commons. Also Yoke
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Jan 19, 2023 02:04
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Gaius Marius posted:Also Yoke don't egg them on
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Jan 19, 2023 02:11
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it'll become yolk in standard usage in time, just like "take the reigns" is already taking over. agriculture and horses are not part of the average life anymore so the references are lost
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Jan 19, 2023 02:17
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Mister Olympus posted:it'll become yolk in standard usage in time, just like "take the reigns" is already taking over. agriculture and horses are not part of the average life anymore so the references are lost lmao and food comes from the supermarket right? Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 02:20
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Gaius Marius posted:Exactly, If I'm playing a country I should be constantly forced into making backroom deals with Capitalists and politicians to get things done. Your country should be just as much an enemy to grapple with as foreign problems, and you should be forced to make awful deals with the devil in order to gain the prestige and power you need to influence the wider world. Okay, that's a way more reasonable and thought, than I expect from that complaint. I would loving love that game, If you made that game I would drop Viccy 3 in a heart beat. But at that point it's not a paradox GSG. The game assumes every country is a player which bluntly requires so many mechanical concessions, that you honestly can't do that kind of poo poo because the game simply can't prioritize internal politics to the extent you would have to for that game. Paradox could never shortcut other countries to the amount would be needed to make that game not even more a performance hog, they'd be lynched.
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Jan 19, 2023 02:28
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Mister Olympus posted:it'll become yolk in standard usage in time, just like "take the reigns" is already taking over. agriculture and horses are not part of the average life anymore so the references are lost I could care less
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Jan 19, 2023 02:46
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Gaius Marius posted:Exactly, If I'm playing a country I should be constantly forced into making backroom deals with Capitalists and politicians to get things done. Your country should be just as much an enemy to grapple with as foreign problems, and you should be forced to make awful deals with the devil in order to gain the prestige and power you need to influence the wider world. It's interesting, because there are events when passing laws that talk about making concessions or coming to a compromise, but that's usually just an IG opinion penalty in exchange for a bigger bonus or a smaller penalty. There's no actual difference between public healthcare that has given up concessions and had a bunch of backroom deals and a public healthcare system that went straight through right from the beginning with no compromise.
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Jan 19, 2023 02:53
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Lady Radia posted:it’s not due to the lack of production automation, it’s due to the construction queue clearly not being designed for scale after the first 20 years. the answer to that is only automation if you’re not questioning the design, and have no real vision for where the game should go. I almost never interact with the construction queue interface, so any improvements to that would do nothing to improve the experience with late-game construction. It's true that they could do a much deeper redesign of the entire construction system, but that doesn't seem to be what you're talking about either and I'm not sure it would be necessary as long as they can make the experience of using the existing system less tedious. And I'm sorry, but resolving your own personal grievances with only the solutions you prefer isn't the only valid vision one can have for the game. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 06:39
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Gonna guess that they're also not writing a whole new automation AI given that, y'know, every non-player-controlled country is already automatically building things. Obviously that doesn't bode well for the quality of the automation but I can't imagine it's a task that's taking huge amounts of time and resources away from other stuff.
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Jan 19, 2023 06:57
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I almost never interact with the construction queue interface,
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Jan 19, 2023 07:36
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Eiba posted:What? 90% of this game is building buildings. If you're not interacting with the construction interface what are you doing? Click on province, click plus sign next to building?
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Jan 19, 2023 07:48
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dead gay comedy forums posted:BTW, what exactly is that exploit? I mean, Russia was almost entirely a primary export economy for also almost entirely the game's timeframe. I think the main problem is that the other major economies do not seek pursuing trading advantages because their internal markets tend to be underdeveloped I started as the UK, released myself as Malta, then asked the Russians to be a protectorate of them. Boom I am in the russian market and only produce industrial goods, no raw materials at all, instead the russians do that. my OPM starts getting a million people and has insanely high GDP and migration thanks to its standard of living going boom
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Jan 19, 2023 07:59
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Lady Radia posted:what’s the point of this feature if it’s going to be automated and isn’t one of the core issues with the game Yeah, I cry every time I click automate button in a game. If I'm not supposed to touch it then make it a proper indirect control mechanic. Limit my involvement in the mechanic.
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Jan 19, 2023 08:23
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I almost never interact with the construction queue interface, so any improvements to that would do nothing to improve the experience with late-game construction. It's true that they could do a much deeper redesign of the entire construction system, but that doesn't seem to be what you're talking about either and I'm not sure it would be necessary as long as they can make the experience of using the existing system less tedious. And I'm sorry, but resolving your own personal grievances with only the solutions you prefer isn't the only valid vision one can have for the game. if you don't play the game through one of its primary methods of interaction (construction) then what the hell do you do? Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Click on province, click plus sign next to building? oh you don't know how the game's UI works right now anyway, gotcha. there's the lenses at the bottom and also the buildings screen that better lets you find provinces to build things in. hope that helps. when you learn to play the game we can revisit the convo lol
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Jan 19, 2023 08:25
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ilitarist posted:Yeah, I cry every time I click automate button in a game. If I'm not supposed to touch it then make it a proper indirect control mechanic. Limit my involvement in the mechanic. questioning how correct i am when you and i are agreeing on something. no offense lmao
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Jan 19, 2023 08:26
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Lady Radia posted:if you don't play the game through one of its primary methods of interaction (construction) then what the hell do you do? You said the construction queue, so i thought you were talking about... the queue. The lenses on the bottom are a completely different thing. What is it do you think needs to change there?
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Jan 19, 2023 08:31
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its not hard to shift or ctrl click, it's just a pain in the rear end when you want to bring multiple things to the top, alt clicking 50 times sucks
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Jan 19, 2023 08:45
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Lady Radia posted:questioning how correct i am when you and i are agreeing on something. no offense lmao You are as close as you'll ever be to the sun, to the objective truth. Remember this moment, cherish it instead of covering it with poison and toxicity.
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Jan 19, 2023 08:47
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:You said the construction queue, so i thought you were talking about... the queue. The lenses on the bottom are a completely different thing. What is it do you think needs to change there? Lady Radia posted:it’s not due to the lack of production automation, it’s due to the construction queue clearly not being designed for scale after the first 20 years. the answer to that is only automation if you’re not questioning the design, and have no real vision for where the game should go. i really dunno why you think i meant "the construction queue visible only in the buildings->construction page and nothing else", but i brought the post down again to reference. if you dont think the end-game's production issues need a closer look then "eh just hit this button to turn it off" i dunno what to tell you. HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:its not hard to shift or ctrl click, it's just a pain in the rear end when you want to bring multiple things to the top, alt clicking 50 times sucks wife keeps making fun of me for this 
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Jan 19, 2023 09:28
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I do think infrastructure should have an autobuild option at least. Everything else should stay in the player's hands.
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Jan 19, 2023 09:49
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If there's an AI spamming random buildings all over my country and exceeding the infrastructure limits all the time I think that'll be a net negative for the game.
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Jan 19, 2023 12:20
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Personally not a big fan of automation of building either, although it's kind of required with the state of the game as it is. I think part of the problem is that construction just scales up too well. You can keep expanding it infinitely to match your population growth, which both makes the game much more tedious for you and starts lagging it out as your queue gets bigger. If construction was more limited in a way, you'd have to start making harder choices as a large country, deal with a lot more unrest and interesting stuff, and you don't have to click and figure stuff out as much. I think I'd personally make construction buildings like urban centers, in that they spawn naturally as you expand, and start adding a lot more granularity to build times. Keep plantations and farms cheap and easy to build, but increase urban buildings and stuff build times by a lot and have a lot of different techs and production methods (taking different resources) that start to bring those build times down. Work on improving the auto-expand feature (mods already do this), and then like, a combined info screen that shows you your biggest resource shortages or surpluses and gives you immediate access to building what you need to fix them. It'd also, you know, help if they fixed all the "profit" prediction tooltips to actually work and be useful. Though I think it'd still be nice having a basic automation feature like they are implementing, as long as it's 100% optional.
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Jan 19, 2023 13:00
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The fundamental issue with automation that still allows for complete user control is that you simultaneously acknowledge that the task is tedious and boring and lacks in interesting choices; but also that it's important for the player to control it sometimes. It makes sense to an extent in, say, a competitive RTS, where your time is limited and a part of mastery is to understand where and when should you focus your limited attention. In any PDX GSG you have all the time in the world (unless you play in MP which probably should not define the design), so it means that my performance depends on how much time I am ready to spend on micromanaging some easily automated stuff to squeeze something out of it. I understand that this system at least keeps the game playable. If you implement some system where the player has to spend some resources on interfering with automated stuff or there are limits to how often the player can do this then you risk making something completely broken and unplayable. There might be no better solution but still, optional automation is the least bad solution at best. But I haven't seen what do they actually going to do. Like in SpaceChem and Opus Magnum and Factorio you do automation too, but it's very different from your typical 4X/GSG automation of just letting AI build whatever they want in a city/planet.
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Jan 19, 2023 14:08
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Lady Radia posted:i really dunno why you think i meant "the construction queue visible only in the buildings->construction page and nothing else", but i brought the post down again to reference. if you dont think the end-game's production issues need a closer look then "eh just hit this button to turn it off" i dunno what to tell you. So what did you mean? I can't tell either.
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Jan 19, 2023 14:45
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https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-71-autonomous-investment-in-1-2.1565414/ Sounds good actually. And also this private construction is a game rule. ilitarist fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 16:09
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https://twitter.com/PDXVictoria/status/1616088340100431872 Looks like they're also changing the amount of money people put into the Investment Pool, and changing how efficient such money is. I hope they expand who gets to contribute to the IP under socialism, as well as the State getting profits from businesses under Command Economy.
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Jan 19, 2023 16:24
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:its not hard to shift or ctrl click, it's just a pain in the rear end when you want to bring multiple things to the top, alt clicking 50 times sucks Yeah, they need to allow us to shift-alt click or ctrl-alt click. The other thing they desperately, desperately need to do? loving hotkeys for generals. I should not have to move my mouse from the right side of the screen to click on a general, to the bottom left of the screen to select advance/defend/wait, and then back to either the top left or the middle of the screen to send the order. They need a select next/previous general hotkey and hotkeys for advance/defend/wait. They also need an option to split up generals by region of origin so that you can know which generals can naval invade using which fleets and which generals are stationed closer to the action (while we're at it, it would be nice to be able to station my generals closer to the enemy frontline temporarily in the buildup to a war that I don't have an active front for yet).
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Jan 19, 2023 16:30
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Yeah, just four pop types out of fifteen being able to invest money seems weirdly arbitrary. Obviously slaves can't invest as they can't own property, but I could see any other pop type of sufficient standard of living investing money. Edit: Apparently this is down to the types of pops that have ownership shares in their places of work, except for academics in art academies who are an edge case Gort fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 16:31
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Dirk the Average posted:Yeah, they need to allow us to shift-alt click or ctrl-alt click.
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Jan 19, 2023 16:33
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I was concerned when I saw the Twitter post because it sounded like a minor feature to satisfy people who wanted to see some AI construction but it seems more like they are changing the game to add AI construction and then including a game rule so that the people who just want to have a sandbox to build stuff in without outside interference don't feel like they got bait-and-switched. Sounds good!
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Jan 19, 2023 16:58
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