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I used to get those in kinder eggs as a child. They're not just for Elamite kids.
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Jan 19, 2023 15:49
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Maybe he doesn't say it outright, but I feel like the unstated idea here is that he's trying to compare roughly similar sized landmasses. The parts of Eurasia that are conducive to densely populated civilizations are roughly four times greater than those of North America. And more people in absolute numbers means more chances to come up with ideas that will boost the entire landmass, resulting in more chances for new concepts and an eventual snowballing of advantages compared to less populated regions. didnt eurasian societies also have a massive time advantage? that always seemed like the most likely explanation. the euros had like 2000-3000 years on us. give the aztecs another 2000 years and surely they would all be shooting back at you with lasers and poo poo babypolis has issued a correction as of 16:47 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 16:45
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gotta go fast
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Jan 19, 2023 16:51
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babypolis posted:didnt eurasian societies also have a massive time advantage? that always seemed like the most likely explanation. the euros had like 2000-3000 years on us. give the aztecs another 2000 years and surely they would all be shooting back at you with lasers and poo poo
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Jan 19, 2023 16:56
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What does time advantage mean here? Relative to what? relative to american civilizations. they had more time to develop technologically
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Jan 19, 2023 17:05
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Develop technologically from what though?
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Jan 19, 2023 17:08
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Jezza of OZPOS posted:Develop technologically from what though?
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Jan 19, 2023 17:14
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fermun posted:the oldest dateable runestone was discovered about a year ago and stuff about it is being published, here's a couple of the researchers with some twitter threads This is incredibly cool. Do want to see the detail of those radiocarbon dates, presumably single sample AMS dates with a nice tight cluster if they are being so confident. Bulk sample radiometric dates make my eye twitch.
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Jan 19, 2023 17:18
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The name it says the rune stone might be saying could possibly be one that's still used in Iceland. https://twitter.com/KroonenGuus/status/1615626104919949312
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Jan 19, 2023 17:44
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Jezza of OZPOS posted:Develop technologically from what though? Start of agriculture? I think rye, wheat and barley were domesticated about 1000-3000 years before maize. Though if you're being super strict about believing in that timeline, then the Aztecs should have been in their late bronze age or early iron age. But there's not really any evidence of them using alloys, just pure metal like copper, silver, and gold.
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Jan 19, 2023 18:37
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Speleothing posted:Start of agriculture? I think rye, wheat and barley were domesticated about 1000-3000 years before maize. water mills seem like a decent leap forward too
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Jan 19, 2023 18:46
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fermun posted:the oldest dateable runestone was discovered about a year ago and stuff about it is being published, here's a couple of the researchers with some twitter threads usually I don't give a poo poo when you developed writing if at all but I hate Norse fans so much that I've got to LOL that all their oldest poo poo is from the CE
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Jan 19, 2023 19:16
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i say swears online posted:water mills seem like a decent leap forward too One the one hand it's clear that technology can drive big changes in society, but on the other more advanced tech doesn't consistently result in dominance and expansion (China on balance is probably the most advanced region on the planet over last few millennia, but only now emerging as a global power)
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Jan 19, 2023 19:24
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War and Pieces posted:usually I don't give a poo poo when you developed writing if at all but I hate Norse fans so much that I've got to LOL that all their oldest poo poo is from the CE I didn’t want to say this but I was thinking it when I came across the date range
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Jan 19, 2023 19:27
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ma i married a tuna posted:One the one hand it's clear that technology can drive big changes in society, but on the other more advanced tech doesn't consistently result in dominance and expansion (China on balance is probably the most advanced region on the planet over last few millennia, but only now emerging as a global power) we gotta replace great man theory with great idea theory
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Jan 19, 2023 19:28
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Speleothing posted:Start of agriculture? I think rye, wheat and barley were domesticated about 1000-3000 years before maize. :ever expanding facepalm full of other facepalms: There is absolutely not a fixed universal timeline of stages of technological development that all human cultures adhere to. There is no "should have been". The labels "bronze age", "iron age", "chalcolithic" etc. etc. refer to the highest level of technology in use not how far along some fixed developmental schedule any given culture is. This is archaeology 101. The European Bronze Age starts at different times depending on where you are looking at and a lot of places (most even) skipped the Chalcolithic stage completely as far as we can tell. Even within these labels there is no guarantee that the highest level tech is being used at any particular site. I've worked on numerous "Early Bronze Age" sites in NE Scotland and we found no bronze on any of them. Plenty of worked stone though. Hell there is at least one "Pre-Neolithic Stone Age" culture still in existence - the Sentinelese. Gunflints can be and were made using nothing beyond stone age technology. Agriculture does not inevitably lead to metal use. Why would it? Crops don't require metal tools to grow, harvest or process.
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Jan 19, 2023 20:22
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Yes. That was also my point. That there's no strict timeline because if there was then the Aztecs would have been using iron exactly 1500-2000 years after Europeans were.
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Jan 19, 2023 20:39
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War and Pieces posted:usually I don't give a poo poo when you developed writing if at all but I hate Norse fans so much that I've got to LOL that all their oldest poo poo is from the CE I mean, the gap between what Norse fans believe about the pre-Christian Norse and what historians specializing in Norse history believe about the pre-Christian Norse is just so vast that its hard to really connect the facts to their fandom. Like yeah most modern people display some comical ignorance about pre-Islamic Egypt (Old Kingdom pharoahs, you sure about that buddy?), but at least the gods that most of us can name in pop culture - Osiris, Isis, etc. - appear to actually have been important gods. When was the last time you heard a death metal song about Ullr?
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Jan 19, 2023 20:46
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Tulip posted:I mean, the gap between what Norse fans believe about the pre-Christian Norse and what historians specializing in Norse history believe about the pre-Christian Norse is just so vast that its hard to really connect the facts to their fandom. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LekZ1ErAY-w This one is folk metal but it includes the lines about Ullr from the edda. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlDhm5wm2xY WoodrowSkillson has issued a correction as of 20:54 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 20:50
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War and Pieces posted:usually I don't give a poo poo when you developed writing if at all but I hate Norse fans so much that I've got to LOL that all their oldest poo poo is from the CE I went to a cool museum in Sweden where they had loads of Scandinavian stuff and it's like a stone with a crude letter on it, then in the next room from the same time they have a delicate gold filligred quran with a lock. They also had a running commentary on the vikings by I think ahmad ibn fadlan who was touring scandinavia at the time and constantly disgusted by them
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Jan 19, 2023 20:55
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its ok he came around when they had to fight the death eaters
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Jan 19, 2023 20:57
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Speleothing posted:Yes. That was also my point. That there's no strict timeline because if there was then the Aztecs would have been using iron exactly 1500-2000 years after Europeans were. Sorry, I misread you. It's a misunderstanding of how archaeology uses these labels (that are purely designed for convenience in talking about the past and necessarily lack nuance) that I have run into far, far too often so it's a bit of a bugbear. War and Pieces posted:usually I don't give a poo poo when you developed writing if at all but I hate Norse fans so much that I've got to LOL that all their oldest poo poo is from the CE  Literacy is over rated, most humans who have ever lived did fine without it.
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Jan 19, 2023 21:10
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EmptyVessel posted:Literacy is over rated, most humans who have ever lived did fine without it. yeah I say the same thing about germ theory
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Jan 19, 2023 21:13
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The LOL is that white people are obsessed with literacy but they were illiterate bumkins for over half of written history.
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Jan 19, 2023 21:15
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WoodrowSkillson posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LekZ1ErAY-w lol hell yeah War and Pieces posted:The LOL is that white people are obsessed with literacy but they were illiterate bumkins for over half of written history. you say that like we're literate now
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Jan 19, 2023 21:22
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War and Pieces posted:The LOL is that white people are obsessed with literacy but they were illiterate bumkins for over half of written history.
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Jan 19, 2023 21:26
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Tulip posted:lol hell yeah gently caress you, doughboy, I can read. see that shoe? it says "Adidas"
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Jan 19, 2023 21:26
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War and Pieces posted:The LOL is that white people are obsessed with literacy but they were illiterate bumkins for over half of written history. everyone in the past was actually white and with a british accent
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Jan 19, 2023 21:27
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Tulip posted:I mean, the gap between what Norse fans believe about the pre-Christian Norse and what historians specializing in Norse history believe about the pre-Christian Norse is just so vast that its hard to really connect the facts to their fandom. tell me more about historical works on pre christian norsemen? I thought that the popular germanic gods mostly mapped 1-1 to most hindu gods which makes sense given that they were both descended from PIE cultures.
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Jan 19, 2023 22:10
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what was the extent of PIE culture in like 2500bc
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Jan 19, 2023 22:12
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language isolates are way cooler than PIE. wtf is basque
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Jan 19, 2023 22:15
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indigi posted:what was the extent of PIE culture in like 2500bc Dunno, derivatives got far and wide. Variants of a culture that started off smoking weed in the Sea of Grass above the black sea.
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Jan 19, 2023 22:17
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All the cool PIE guys went to Iran and India they only sent their losers west
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Jan 19, 2023 22:43
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What about the weird rear end PIE people who hung out in the tarim basin? Lol that for much of human history, the spot between China and India was filled with a mass of people who would in our present day be defined as White.
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Jan 19, 2023 22:56
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Tankbuster posted:tell me more about historical works on pre christian norsemen? I thought that the popular germanic gods mostly mapped 1-1 to most hindu gods which makes sense given that they were both descended from PIE cultures. this guy mostly approaches Norse stuff from a linguistic perspective, but he's been very helpful for me. He's also got some translations of the norse stuff we have; the poetic edda and the saga of the volsungs and all that. I dont have the expertise to actually critique what he says, but he's pretty good at justifying himself as far as i can tell: https://www.youtube.com/@JacksonCrawford
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Jan 19, 2023 22:58
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Tankbuster posted:What about the weird rear end PIE people who hung out in the tarim basin? Lol that for much of human history, the spot between China and India was filled with a mass of people who would in our present day be defined as White. This has always been one of the most interesting to me because they got there super early in the Indo-European expansion but didn't leave anyone between them and basically the actual homeland (assuming the Pontic Steppe is the homeland). Super long distance migrations like that, or the more documented migration of the Alans from the loving Caucasus all the way to North Africa, are fascinating to me.
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Jan 19, 2023 22:59
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big scandal in England about the government supporting PIE people in the 1970s and 80s but that is too recent to go into much detail here
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Jan 19, 2023 23:01
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bedpan posted:big scandal in England about the government supporting PIE people in the 1970s and 80s but that is too recent to go into much detail here Gross
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Jan 20, 2023 00:24
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Communist Thoughts posted:I went to a cool museum in Sweden where they had loads of Scandinavian stuff and it's like a stone with a crude letter on it, then in the next room from the same time they have a delicate gold filligred quran with a lock. Ibn Fadlan met vikings/rus/scandinavian slave traders in the Volga and he gives a very high amount of details of cultural practices. And while he praise their appearance he is truly disgusted by their hygiene. His remarks regarding their hygiene standards might be because those are very unfitting for a muslim and he was basically an emissary sent to teach the Volga Bulgars how to be proper muslims. His apparent mission is probably also a reason as to why he gives such observant accounts of the cultural practices, because it was part of his mission to take note of these things in order to teach the people to be more compatible with islam. He gives many gruesome details about how the vikings organize their slave girl market, including how prospecting clients can "sample" the stock and how they themselves rape their slaves. But he also gives accounts of how they treat each other and how the funeral of an important leader occurs with ritual human sacrifices and a burning ship etc. Ancient Scandinavian and early germanic history is fascinating in their own ways but the region were always a fringe area during ancient times, comparatively sparsely populated and quite far away from the sources of the bronze age economy. The people there were well integrated into the bronze and iron age economies however. This meant that when the bronze age collapse happened there was big consequences there too; as can be seen on the contemporary Tollensee battle where army sizes comparable to those used in the Levant was used. An other example is that there is a certain type of late bronze age sword that has basically only been found Mycenae and southern Scandinavia. Which suggests that the habit of going south to raid and pillage might not be a very novel invention by the vikings.
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Jan 20, 2023 00:36
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they need to make a better 13th Warrior
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Jan 20, 2023 00:44
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