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Sassy Sasquatch posted:I played the early access of DD2 for a bit when it came out, then checked out because it didn't have a lot of content yet at the time and I wanted to keep it fresh. Would now be a good time to jump back in ? I understand there's 3 bosses now and they did a balance pass recently ? I remember you had to pigeon hole yourself pretty hard in the original release with regards to stress healing skills, not sure how the more recent releases improved or modified that ? I'm enjoying and had no idea they had overhauled the game's structure this deeply. It seems stress management falls under doing crits and relationships now, and I'm still undecided if the triggers for relationships are random or not, sometimes it makes sense like the amorous character getting mad at my man at arms for always bosltering someone else and not them, and other times is like "you stole my kill" like what? no it wasn't lol
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Dec 31, 2022 15:38
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Honest Thief posted:I'm enjoying and had no idea they had overhauled the game's structure this deeply. It seems stress management falls under doing crits and relationships now, and I'm still undecided if the triggers for relationships are random or not, sometimes it makes sense like the amorous character getting mad at my man at arms for always bosltering someone else and not them, and other times is like "you stole my kill" like what? no it wasn't lol Yeah, the focus on stress management was with the ulterior motive of fostering positive relationships in the crew, so that hasn't fundamentally changed it seems. I read recently that they wanted to make character interactions visible to the player before you picked which skill to use, (I think it's honestly a great idea) has that already been implemented ?
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Dec 31, 2022 16:52
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Maybe it does but I only figured out poo poo recently like you have to old ALT and hover a enemy to see its skills and tokens
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Dec 31, 2022 16:53
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Sassy Sasquatch posted:Yeah, the focus on stress management was with the ulterior motive of fostering positive relationships in the crew, so that hasn't fundamentally changed it seems. I read recently that they wanted to make character interactions visible to the player before you picked which skill to use, (I think it's honestly a great idea) has that already been implemented ? double posting but I just realized there was a experimental features branch on egs and that one has the feature where what affects characters affections is more explicit seen. The new changes significantly improve the game experience, like one of the things improves the combat pace by not having as many breaks for small vignettes when your characters relationships kick in, which in late game would be constant. if this is what eventually gets released on steam eventually I think it's a keeper
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Jan 1, 2023 13:37
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For unknown reasons I decided to give the first game another try. A few brutal ones, one without my vestal where an arbalest spent the whole time using their tiny heal, mostly on themselves. Tried using a jester but just couldn't figure them out. Still hate bringing a couple of new characters along and having them both ruined by the end of a single short mission. But I guess that's what the stagecoach is for!
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Jan 1, 2023 16:38
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One use I had for "short" duration runs in DD1 was as matriculation runs for new hires; even a short run is enough to go from lvl 0 to lvl 1,and at lvl 1 you can upgrade skills /weapons /armor which bumps up their survivability.Honest Thief posted:double posting but I just realized there was a experimental features branch on egs and that one has the feature where what affects characters affections is more explicit seen. The new changes significantly improve the game experience, like one of the things improves the combat pace by not having as many breaks for small vignettes when your characters relationships kick in, which in late game would be constant.
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Jan 1, 2023 17:25
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Panfilo posted:Yeah it helps with the pace of battles, and tying it to specific skills gives you more control. Though I wish it augmented skills in more unique ways (instead of Respectful just healing 1 stress it would also ignore minimum stress thresholds on stress heals, with amorous it might similarly let you always use hp heals on the target etc.) there's also resolve which makes it so you can gamble on stress where before I was constantly spamming bolster with man at arms to keep it a manageable level they also seem to make relationships not pop as often so it doesn't happen where you have a polycule which got a bit ridiculous when a character went "You said I was the only one!" like, Audrey, you saw man at arms pop an amorous relationship with highwayman you know what was up
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Jan 1, 2023 18:08
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Can I get any tips for what skills to upgrade/how to manage stress properly? I'm having another go after a brief run just as it launched, and I'm a bit overwhelmed trying to manage stress, relationships and actually killing the eldritch abominations in front of me.
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Jan 10, 2023 19:57
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Fat Samurai posted:Can I get any tips for what skills to upgrade/how to manage stress properly? I'm having another go after a brief run just as it launched, and I'm a bit overwhelmed trying to manage stress, relationships and actually killing the eldritch abominations in front of me. The best stress management skills are the Jester's Inspiring Tune, and the Man-At-Arms' Bolster. The Leper and Hellion have good self-soothing skills, so putting one of them in the frontline is helpful. My first priority is generally upgrading Inspiring Tune or Bolster, and the Plague Doctor's Indiscriminate Science ability. After that, I upgrade whichever attack I use most often for each character.
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Jan 10, 2023 22:00
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Fat Samurai posted:Can I get any tips for what skills to upgrade/how to manage stress properly? I'm having another go after a brief run just as it launched, and I'm a bit overwhelmed trying to manage stress, relationships and actually killing the eldritch abominations in front of me. Jester/tune needs no explanation. I tend to hold it until needed. MAA/bolster should be use to heal both the MAA and someone. I tend to use this early. Hellion/Revelry should heal at least 2 people. I use this early as well.
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Jan 11, 2023 06:33
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Revel has surprising action economy as it can heal+stress heal herself and stress heal allies. Carcass path Hellion can afford to lean into these skills a bit more, as her mechanic tanks her damage output already so you can focus more on skills like revel, yawp, and Bleed effects. Not the most optimal use of a Hellion but fun nonetheless, particularly if she's got quirks adversely affecting damage output.
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Jan 16, 2023 00:25
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I’m having fun with the new version. Apparently I started playing just as they tweaked the affinity system,so that was lucky. A couple of questions: - What does Loathing actually do? Is it related to why enemies become “ordained” or something like that? - I think I need to kill at least one boss of a Lair each run, but I’ve been killed each time I’ve tried. How important is to kill them in every region? Should I choose just one that my party comp can handle easily? - How does the difficulty increase during the run? I haven’t noticed tougher enemies, but admittedly I’ve ben mostly farming the first two regions to unlock new heroes.
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Jan 16, 2023 12:47
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Fat Samurai posted:I’m having fun with the new version. Apparently I started playing just as they tweaked the affinity system,so that was lucky. High loathing increases the chance that enemies get combat buffs, makes the torch dim faster, and lowers the number of mastery points you get. You only need one per run, not one in each region. I find the Librarian is the easiest, as long as you have three or four party members who can hit the back ranks. The difficulty seems to be the same in each region, except for the cultists.
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Jan 16, 2023 13:52
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Chamale posted:The difficulty seems to be the same in each region, except for the cultists. Not quite. There's two versions of the enemies, including bosses, normal and "ordained", who got higher base stats and damage output. The further you are, the greater the chance that any given enemy is ordained.
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Jan 16, 2023 14:23
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Do ordained enemies give better rewards, or ar ethey just random difficulty landmines?
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Jan 16, 2023 17:18
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Sephyr posted:Do ordained enemies give better rewards, or ar ethey just random difficulty landmines? They're just harder. They get additional properties based on the particular chapter you are in. Each region has a higher % of enemies that are ordained; at region 3 I think 80% of enemies are ordained. Loathing exists to prevent you from avoiding too many fights. It builds up from other nodes but resistance and cultist encounters lower it. Sunny disposition/doomsayer also can randomly lower and raise it.
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Jan 16, 2023 19:35
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idk, zone 1 leviathan 
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Jan 19, 2023 05:39
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I reached the boss of Act 3 for the first time and managed to scrape out a with, though not without casualties. It's way overtuned IMO and there are certain party comps that simply cannot defeat it thanks to the special mechanics of phase 1 and how they interact with phase 2. Absolute MVP was Sharpshooter Highwayman who had scored a special relic from Academic's Study that gave 50% of extra turn or 50% of Stun at the end of every turn with another trinket that gave +25% Stun resist. Still, if he hadn't succeeded in multiple Death's Door tests I would have lost.
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Jan 23, 2023 13:54
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I'm hoping for besides better tuning, more act differences other than buffs, cause my interest dropped a lot once I finished Act 1 and realised i gotta do this again?
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Jan 23, 2023 15:15
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Honest Thief posted:I'm hoping for besides better tuning, more act differences other than buffs, cause my interest dropped a lot once I finished Act 1 and realised i gotta do this again? This was my concern as well. Would have been nice if there was at least a unique biome for each chapter.
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Jan 23, 2023 16:05
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Random dump of thoughts The game should save more frequently. New relationships are dumb. What does it add to the game? Does this game need more random nonsense? The only effect I care about is getting a skill locked, the rest is whatever. Meltdown vs Resolute is cool. Its random but it provides good tension as opposed forced tension. Why have scouting when you have to pick a node? In DD1, you were usually looking for something when you picked paths. Its not much of choice if you don't know what you are choosing.
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Jan 24, 2023 03:02
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What's the most times you've died to a DD boss?
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Jan 28, 2023 04:38
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ok so new update means new complaints but let's start with the positives 1) I really like the effects of the new relationship system, and it looks like most of the chatter's been preserved? 2) The rhythm of combat feels better overall with the barks included since it isn't stopping suddenly to let someone whine about kill-stealing. 3) There is a more 'emergent story' quality to it that I can appreciate, but I can tell it's gonna make me yell at my screen a lot. ex: Hateful sprung an interesting one on me. Grave Robber lunged and Runaway shanked her in the back as her interrupt. Some vicious lines traded immediately after that, though one of them flashed past too quickly to read. negatives 1) Dialogue flashes past too quickly to read sometimes ;p 2) I really, really hate how even-more-RNG the relationship system got. Like a lot. I hope people are sending feedback about it, because why the gently caress even have it if the results are that randomized? That second one tanks a lot of positives for me. The potential for a run-ruining result isn't exactly remote. It feels bullshit in a way that I already find frustrating, especially when it forces you *back out* of a good status at the next Inn, regardless of affinity. Like I feel like they've at least gotta work for that. At the very, very least, give me some filler lines like they did with the 'so and so decided to stay at the bar and keep drinking' notes in the DD1 logs. oh yeah and 3) I guess Exemplar is just a wandering boss now please tell me that's a glitch???  EDIT: I didn't expect to like Hellion tanking as Carcass but it really does work well. Old Boot fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Jan 30, 2023 |
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Jan 30, 2023 10:17
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What I like about carcass is that it makes yawp and Bleed skills more indirectly useful. I didn't bother with yawp before, but having self sustaining block token and debuffs allows you to face tank lots of hits for single digit damage. It's not always optimal since there's a BIG opportunity cost to giving up damage for tanking on a hero like the Hellion. But it's a fun alternative especially if you can make up the damage with a rank 2 hero like Highwayman or something.
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Jan 30, 2023 17:55
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Old Boot posted:
I'm going to finally try the <new> version of the game this week but man I thought the purpose of retooling this system was so relationship stuff was less of a hassle, making results random just seems too cruel. In DD1 they saved being malicious for when the character got alllll the way to breaking down, which usually didn't happen THAT often into missions and even then, I could go with it. Idk if it really got worse from months back but I def hated how random poo poo got in terms of what characters hated to do or see. I hope they at least removed the loving moronic "im mad because you got the kill" trigger which makes less sense than any of the Resentful reactions
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Jan 30, 2023 18:08
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Panfilo posted:What I like about carcass is that it makes yawp and Bleed skills more indirectly useful. I didn't bother with yawp before, but having self sustaining block token and debuffs allows you to face tank lots of hits for single digit damage. I like yawp, even better when upgraded. The occultist and leaper can do something similar but yawp works good against heavy hitters. DLC Inc posted:I'm going to finally try the <new> version of the game this week but man I thought the purpose of retooling this system was so relationship stuff was less of a hassle, making results random just seems too cruel. In DD1 they saved being malicious for when the character got alllll the way to breaking down, which usually didn't happen THAT often into missions and even then, I could go with it. Idk if it really got worse from months back but I def hated how random poo poo got in terms of what characters hated to do or see. I hope they at least removed the loving moronic "im mad because you got the kill" trigger which makes less sense than any of the Resentful reactions
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Jan 30, 2023 18:22
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Panfilo posted:What I like about carcass is that it makes yawp and Bleed skills more indirectly useful. I didn't bother with yawp before, but having self sustaining block token and debuffs allows you to face tank lots of hits for single digit damage. I had a drat good party going with a Arsonist Runaway>Surgeon PD>Nightsworn GR>Carcass Hellion. It did terrible against the Librarian but they absolutely wrecked the random Exemplar they ran into and probably could've done well against the General or Child. In hindsight, the Librarian was a really silly choice for that run and I deserved everything I got, but everything else went really well, even before pretty much everyone made 'Hopeful' status and spammed stress heals at each other (until they all got incinerated, RIP). DLC Inc posted:I'm going to finally try the <new> version of the game this week but man I thought the purpose of retooling this system was so relationship stuff was less of a hassle, making results random just seems too cruel. Yeah, this is my issue with it currently. If you're doing the work to maintain or create good relationships, having it be 'rewarded' by RNG, like. I get where they're going with it, that 'results cannot be guaranteed because human nature'/they don't want people to game the system for what are technically some pretty good buffs, but I would at least appreciate a blurb about why a relationship failed, lapsed, or went sour (like I'd get it if a previously amorous couple turned hateful/resentful because one of them decided to go ~be amorous~ with someone else). Otherwise, yeah, cruel is a good way of putting it, and the sense that we're sliding back towards what relationships were originally is definitely present. FWIW though, I haven't yet noticed the kill steal anger. I did notice a weird one though where one character blamed another for getting in their way/"causing" a move to miss (in part because I'm still not used to checking to see if something will lose/gain pips before I use it). temple posted:I like yawp, even better when upgraded. The occultist and leaper can do something similar but yawp works good against heavy hitters. After having given it a fair shake, I'm inclined to agree. And if you're already spamming Toe-to-Toe the winded token is easy enough to deal with.
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Jan 31, 2023 02:53
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I was thinking a fun way to make the affinities a bit less random is to have quirk combos influence them. For example, you have a Tune Hummer Jester and a Melophobic Highwayman-the Jester is going to annoy the poo poo out of the Highwayman so it would make sense for him to be hateful. A pious Leper might be rightfully paranoid at a Occultomaniac Occultist. Similarly, a Bon Vivant and an alcoholic would get along, "cheers!" "don't mind if I do!".
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Jan 31, 2023 03:10
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https://twitter.com/DarkestDungeon/status/1620539249685659650
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Feb 1, 2023 05:11
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Old Boot posted:
Did you let your Loathing get to 5? Because if you let it get to 5, it is only a matter of time until Examplar shows up to punish you for it. High loathing and/or torch gone dark --> really loving bad road fights.
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Feb 2, 2023 09:06
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they back themselves into a wall with relationships were by giving more tools to minmax it you lose the tension and narrative weight they had back when the game taught you how to handle them, even if it was pretty jank sometimes when some particular relationships would trigger, now it's still jank but at least you get a warning when it's about to happen
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Feb 2, 2023 13:19
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Affinity style relationships are good when they are good and really bad/almost impossible to fix when bad. Locking skills is kind of lame too with bad relationships. I think relationships and the game in general has good mechanics implemented in the wrong ways.
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Feb 2, 2023 18:32
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Haven't played at all, but just from casually checking the thread I'm getting the impression they've really hosed this up?
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Feb 2, 2023 23:14
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No not really. If you were ever around during Early Access for the first game there was a massive shitstorm from fans when they added corpses to the game. See initially when Frontline enemies died it pushed the back enemies forward. But when enemies left corpses it kept that from happening, which made it harder to reach enemies that did ranged or stress damage. However to balance this they also modified several skills to clear corpses, and made it so enemies that died to corpses. It really didn't make the game harder but people threw massive tantrums about it so they made it an option you could toggle off if you didn't like it. The affinity system in DD2 is similar. It has potential, it just needs a lot of tweaking. Too random and people don't feel enough control over being able to succeed. Not random enough and it's too easy to minmax to bypass the mechanics..
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Feb 3, 2023 00:27
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I think randomness should just be that. Sometimes you aren't meant to finish a run, what have you.
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Feb 3, 2023 02:07
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Haven't played at all, but just from casually checking the thread I'm getting the impression they've really hosed this up? Yeah I wanna be clear, DDII is a really solid experience and I really enjoy it. Aesthetically it's everything I could've possibly wanted out of a DD sequel, and for the most part, it feels fantastic to play. I am also going to reverse what I said about the Exemplar being too hard a boss: it's not, it's just that I hadn't figured out the gimmick, and I was getting seriously annoyed at losing candles. I'd say that's a sticking point, that losing to the Exemplar multiple times after long runs can feel lovely and repetitive, but there's parallels to be drawn between that kind of frustration, and the hours-long run of dungeons in 1 ending in some cheeseball RNG fight that murks some of your best characters. So, end of the day, it's trading out one frustration for another. Relationships-- it's a clear replacement for the Affliction system that got them in over their heads. There is a lot of complexity to what they're trying to do, and how they're trying to manage it, and I think what we're seeing is Red Hook biting off more than they can chew. Relationships require a bit more meat on the bone to be satisfying, especially if they're going to whiplash back and forth at Inn stops. Ironically, Relationships would've been pretty good in 1, given it's a very long-term experience that allows for dynamics to change and be more complex, while Affliction would work pretty well for II, being the condensed experience that it is. I don't think it'll kill anyone's enjoyment flat-out, but I hold out hope that it'll continue to be a work in progress. Like, the RNG system in place for it just makes it feel arbitrary and unfair, and makes engaging with the system feel like busywork that will be punished more often than it's rewarded. ATM, it's a guy holding out a carrot that will give the carrot for trying hard enough roughly 25% of the time, forget you exist for 45%, and bludgeon you to death w/ it for the remaining 30. Warden posted:Did you let your Loathing get to 5? Because if you let it get to 5, it is only a matter of time until Examplar shows up to punish you for it. a) I didn't know that! b) I am almost positive Loathing was at 3 at max, and torchlight was around 80ish. It was really early in my second map. Old Boot fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Feb 3, 2023 |
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Feb 3, 2023 02:11
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Old Boot posted:Ironically, Relationships would've been pretty good in 1, given it's a very long-term experience that allows for dynamics to change and be more complex, while Affliction would work pretty well for II, being the condensed experience that it is. I've never lost to the exemplar and only had him kill a character once in a random 1 in 100 chance scenario. He crit a defended person while also hitting the defender, bypassing the defense token. The next action was the crit person on DD and they immediately failed the DD check from a dot. It was definitely a  moment.
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Feb 3, 2023 02:28
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Panfilo posted:No not really. It’s funny that you mention it because in 2 they got rid of blight/bleed and crits not generating corpses… for no apparent reason? I actually liked that gameplay element. I started a new run to test it and just gave up after my 6th or 7th fight. Who in their right mind thought applying the death door mechanic to enemies AND implementing a 5 turns limit on most fights was a good idea? Neither of these concepts is particularly fun or interesting on their own but mixing them is a poo poo recipe. The stagecoach segments are still incredibly dull filler except now that’s also when most of the relationships between your characters will be decided, 100% randomly. There’s the core of a great game in there but some of these design decisions are quite baffling.
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Feb 3, 2023 02:45
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Sassy Sasquatch posted:It’s funny that you mention it because in 2 they got rid of blight/bleed and crits not generating corpses… for no apparent reason? I actually liked that gameplay element. I forgot about the corpse change above, what the gently caress. I agree that enemies having a Death's Door is really exceptionally mean-spirited and prolongs SO many goddamn fights, and is especially awful when you have a turn limit. So oftentimes after a hard battle you come away with jack poo poo when the turn limit hits. A lot of the sequel seemed determined to distance itself from DD1, which I get---they outright said they wanted DD1 to still be a fun and unique game on its own. However, the stuff injected into this somehow made things more of a chore and with far more annoying or worthless poo poo.
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Feb 3, 2023 03:47
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Death's door on enemies really isn't a problem. Only bosses have high deathblow resist (particularly Exemplar), the resist goes down each consecutive hit, and there are skills and consumables that largely bypass it. Factor DoT ticks and riposte and there's many opportunities to finish them off. The turn limit isn't an issue either, because road fights already give negligible rewards-if you can't beat 2 corpse carts in 5 turns then big deal, you're only missing out on 4 relics and a 10% chance of a mastery point. If you know you're not going to beat them in time you can focus instead on debuffing them and healing/stress healing. I do agree DoT should remove corpses (would be good for a boss trophy item, quirk or trinket if they thought having it by default is too forgiving). To their credit there's more corpse clearing skills and some old skills now do this as well (daemons pull). My biggest gripe honestly is nerfing deathblow resist on chapter boss fights. I know having 90% resist can kind of trivialize the encounter, but you still get  moments all the goddamn time, each one had gimmicks that could give you tons of deathblow checks along the way, and overall it made for a more suspenseful, tense fight that any moment your hero could drop dead- yet you're unlikely to get a "rocks fall everyone dies" instawipe as well. With the changes the fights are less forgiving; while you shouldn't breeze your way through playing blind you should be given opportunity to figure it out, and design the battles so you don't need to hyper optimize for that particular fight.
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Feb 3, 2023 04:16
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