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Flopsy posted:The dolphin kidnapper is a trans woman who used to be a football player. She's portrayed as crazier than a poo poo house rat and apparently loving the entire police force who strangely remain ignorant to her situation until Ace rips her pants off and shames her in front of all of them. There's also an extended sequence of Ace freaking out about it and attempting to sanitize himself and all his clothing by setting them on fire because she kissed him earlier. Not even sex or anything but apparently a trans woman is meant to be the most revolting thing in existence apparently. Oh oh oh, all that business. I thought it was specifically in reference to the cartoon for some reason.
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Jan 21, 2023 21:54
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galenanorth posted:I had a history class with a trans professor and as people were leaving, I heard one student saying the "Einhorn is Finkle and Finkle is Einhorn" line from the movie Man what a shithead
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Jan 21, 2023 22:25
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Flopsy posted:There was a lot more casual racism in animation back then. But he was unique in calling it out way before most would've recognized how lovely that was. There's a lot of stuff I enjoyed in my youth that's kinda cringe looking back on now, but that's normal I think. Worst for me is Ace Ventura Pet Detective and the big "twist" at the end. I have never seen Rickety Rocket until now Jesus
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Jan 21, 2023 22:52
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Warbird posted:Oh oh oh, all that business. I thought it was specifically in reference to the cartoon for some reason. i am pretty sure the cartoon is fine, least from what i dimly remember.
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Jan 21, 2023 22:53
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Electric Phantasm posted:I have never seen Rickety Rocket until now Jesus It's literally an animated minstrel show and every time they showed a clip I defaulted into 
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Jan 21, 2023 23:10
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Ah, Ace Ventura. I can think of few other movies that have aged so poorly. Which is genuinely depressing because I remember liking them a lot at the time they came out. Growing up sucks.
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Jan 22, 2023 00:06
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Flopsy posted:It's literally an animated minstrel show and every time they showed a clip I defaulted into For what it's worth, I looked up the IMDB, and all the VAs are black. The fact that the page is so barren though I think speaks volumes on how the show largely failed to leave any meaningful impression on audiences. The show seems on par with the other trash that it was packaged with in that a lot of what Ruby Spears was putting out was bad. I dunno about specifically racist-bad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQaZcpZRjnY&t=13s
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Jan 22, 2023 00:56
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SlothfulCobra posted:For what it's worth, I looked up the IMDB, and all the VAs are black. The fact that the page is so barren though I think speaks volumes on how the show largely failed to leave any meaningful impression on audiences. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDXYjxxnALU
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Jan 22, 2023 01:03
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SlothfulCobra posted:For what it's worth, I looked up the IMDB, and all the VAs are black. The fact that the page is so barren though I think speaks volumes on how the show largely failed to leave any meaningful impression on audiences. See the thing is it was so casually sprinkled in everywhere I don't think it was made with that intent but it most definitely has got that stank all over it. I've been checking out old animated movies that didn't hit the mainstream so much and I stumbled across Fire and Ice for example. Now I know for sure it's supposed to be a take on the Conan the Barbarian-esque fantasy with a lot of bare rear end to go around. But...well...the incredibly voluptuous barely clothed leading lady is only fifteen and the main mooks the characters have to deal with are literally called subhumans. They're ah...a dark skinned tribal flavored race that communicates by essentially hooting Ooga booga at each other. Yeah....yeah. I just...it's impossible not to read into the worst possible interpretation there I'm sorry. There's a lot of this poo poo in old cartoons and it makes it so uncomfortable when you loved some of it as a kid and then you rewatch it. I don't want to assume the worst but Jesus Christ.
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Jan 22, 2023 01:47
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readingatwork posted:Ah, Ace Ventura. I can think of few other movies that have aged so poorly. I remember in school the Monday after it came out for some reason my teacher asked what everyone did that weekend and 90% of the class said they saw it. (I didn't. I probably rented a video game from Blockbuster or something.)
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Jan 22, 2023 01:52
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Dawgstar posted:I remember in school the Monday after it came out for some reason my teacher asked what everyone did that weekend and 90% of the class said they saw it. Yeah, A lot of people forget just how popular it was at the time. It basically started Jim Carey's movie career. It also says a lot about where normie culture was when it was made since literally nobody (who wasn't deeply involved in lgbt advocacy) questioned that scene until decades later. Trans people were essentially a theoretical concept that only really existed in movies and 99% of the time you did see them they were prostitutes, drag performers, or serial killers. Because, you see, a man would have to be CRAYZAY to want to be a woman (trans men literally didn't exist in media at all).
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Jan 22, 2023 02:06
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Flopsy posted:See the thing is it was so casually sprinkled in everywhere I don't think it was made with that intent but it most definitely has got that stank all over it. I've been checking out old animated movies that didn't hit the mainstream so much and I stumbled across Fire and Ice for example. Now I know for sure it's supposed to be a take on the Conan the Barbarian-esque fantasy with a lot of bare rear end to go around. But...well...the incredibly voluptuous barely clothed leading lady is only fifteen and the main mooks the characters have to deal with are literally called subhumans. They're ah...a dark skinned tribal flavored race that communicates by essentially hooting Ooga booga at each other. Yeah....yeah. I just...it's impossible not to read into the worst possible interpretation there I'm sorry. There's a lot of this poo poo in old cartoons and it makes it so uncomfortable when you loved some of it as a kid and then you rewatch it. I don't want to assume the worst but Jesus Christ. That's kind of a wide-ranging problem with the genre in general. With Fantasy it's really easy to stumble into racism if you're not paying attention, especially if you've got fantasy races with some kind of inherent biological differences. "Barbarian age" stories are all about a weird imagining of some kind of "simpler more primitive age" which it's easy to see how that could go wrong, and I think pulp adventure as a genre where all these things were forged tended to be a lot about sort of Great Man hero characters barreling through all sorts of exotic locales filled with exotic peoples who often end up underfoot of whatever adventure is happening. If you're not trying to be sensitive while writing these stories, it's very easy for all this to have very Racial implications. Sometimes anti-racism messages can even end up getting censored. I actually love a lot of pulp-inspired stories, but there's been a sort of art in trying to mine out what was good and fun about old pulp and trying to reforge it into something new without all of the problematic aspects, but there's a lot of times when things slip up or don't get thought put into them.
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Jan 22, 2023 03:08
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SlothfulCobra posted:That's kind of a wide-ranging problem with the genre in general. With Fantasy it's really easy to stumble into racism if you're not paying attention, especially if you've got fantasy races with some kind of inherent biological differences. "Barbarian age" stories are all about a weird imagining of some kind of "simpler more primitive age" which it's easy to see how that could go wrong, and I think pulp adventure as a genre where all these things were forged tended to be a lot about sort of Great Man hero characters barreling through all sorts of exotic locales filled with exotic peoples who often end up underfoot of whatever adventure is happening. If you're not trying to be sensitive while writing these stories, it's very easy for all this to have very Racial implications. Sometimes anti-racism messages can even end up getting censored. I have the same issue where I'm trying to respect it was a different time and sometimes poo poo is hilariously overt especially if you'll talking about the works of HP Lovecraft. But sometimes it's so bad it actually breaks the immersion entirely. I remember the exact point in reading Reanimator I leaned back in my chair and laughed out a "Fucksakes!" into my empty room. I couldn't take anything in the story seriously after that and it was a struggle to look past it in Fire and Ice as well. Granted Fire and Ice has so much nudity across the board it's easy to get distracted away from unfortunate implications for a time.
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Jan 22, 2023 03:54
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Flopsy posted:I have the same issue where I'm trying to respect it was a different time and sometimes poo poo is hilariously overt especially if you'll talking about the works of HP Lovecraft. But sometimes it's so bad it actually breaks the immersion entirely. I remember the exact point in reading Reanimator I leaned back in my chair and laughed out a "Fucksakes!" into my empty room. I couldn't take anything in the story seriously after that and it was a struggle to look past it in Fire and Ice as well. Granted Fire and Ice has so much nudity across the board it's easy to get distracted away from unfortunate implications for a time. Similarly I started last year a project to go through every theatrical Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies short and while racist elements permeate the franchise from beginning(Bosko the first star of Looney Tunes being derived from blackface visuals) to end(the very last theatrical short of the Golden Age is called Injun Troubles and is exactly as bad as the name implies), I've definitely seen some shorts that especially standout as being particularly bad(including the oldest of the "Censored 11" shorts) and I'm only 3 years into the run
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Jan 22, 2023 04:36
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drrockso20 posted:Similarly I started last year a project to go through every theatrical Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies short and while racist elements permeate the franchise from beginning(Bosko the first star of Looney Tunes being derived from blackface visuals) to end(the very last theatrical short of the Golden Age is called Injun Troubles and is exactly as bad as the name implies), I've definitely seen some shorts that especially standout as being particularly bad(including the oldest of the "Censored 11" shorts) and I'm only 3 years into the run I'm not of the opinion these things should be censored or anything but if you're going into it blind maybe the publishers could throw up a little warning about the content. Least let the unaware brace themselves a bit. I know the Warner company did something similar with the classic Looney toons you're referring to and it's far cry more than Disney slamming the lid on it.
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Jan 22, 2023 04:43
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Flopsy posted:I'm not of the opinion these things should be censored or anything but if you're going into it blind maybe the publishers could throw up a little warning about the content. Least let the unaware brace themselves a bit. I know the Warner company did something similar with the classic Looney toons you're referring to and it's far cry more than Disney slamming the lid on it. i am kinda in favor of what lindsey elise said that one time of just have a disclaimer or some historian/film critic have 5 min video before the collection or song of south or etc.
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Jan 22, 2023 05:28
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Flopsy posted:I have the same issue where I'm trying to respect it was a different time and sometimes poo poo is hilariously overt especially if you'll talking about the works of HP Lovecraft. But sometimes it's so bad it actually breaks the immersion entirely. I remember the exact point in reading Reanimator I leaned back in my chair and laughed out a "Fucksakes!" into my empty room. I couldn't take anything in the story seriously after that and it was a struggle to look past it in Fire and Ice as well. Granted Fire and Ice has so much nudity across the board it's easy to get distracted away from unfortunate implications for a time. yeah, i genuinly love reading about the gilded/progressive era(to me its civil war to maybe 20s around) and reading how hosed up alot of the beliefs and people were mixed with some of them being genuinly super progressive in warped ways. like conan is racist as gently caress at points but others of writing are almost weirdly "enlightened" for the time. Lovecraft is basicaly the giant exception to the rule because he was basicaly a shut in freak who was super bigoted because he came from a bunch of inbred new england brahmans and legit afraid of everything.
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Jan 22, 2023 05:35
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What the gently caress How have I never heard of this before?
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Jan 22, 2023 06:07
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Sockser posted:What the gently caress My guess would be 'because it looks terrible.'
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Jan 22, 2023 11:48
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Sockser posted:What the gently caress i have vaguely heard about it but i was born in 91 and didnt get a direct tv until like 8 or so all of my tv was like golden age cartoon network or nicklodians.
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Jan 22, 2023 22:16
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Same and I'm even older. A lot of these I'm just finding out about this week. Didn't they make a cartoon about the Rubik's cube too and it was supposed to be a friendly alien or something? Like they made cartoons about drat well anything coherency or plot be damned.
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Jan 22, 2023 23:36
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Flopsy posted:Same and I'm even older. A lot of these I'm just finding out about this week. Didn't they make a cartoon about the Rubik's cube too and it was supposed to be a friendly alien or something? Like they made cartoons about drat well anything coherency or plot be damned. Yeah, he granted wishes or something. I'd forgotten some of the nonsense in the Ruby Spears block. It was even a little before my time but some of it got rerun. I remember Plastic Man but nothing of the rest.
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Jan 23, 2023 00:43
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Flopsy posted:Same and I'm even older. A lot of these I'm just finding out about this week. Didn't they make a cartoon about the Rubik's cube too and it was supposed to be a friendly alien or something? Like they made cartoons about drat well anything coherency or plot be damned. much like video games before the crash, they made everything a cartoon back then and like 90% were to sell toys, like obviously that exists still now, but merch seems to be more secondary/afterthought for alot of cartoons now.
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Jan 23, 2023 01:43
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Ruby-Spears was a weird offshoot of Hanna Barbera, and I think Hanna Barbera was already dealing with a slump at the time, so Ruby-Spears had to deal with the late 70s without the advantage of a decade of content and IPs to use as a crutch. And then in the 80s while there was a boom of money going into animation that floated them both, neither really created much worthwhile in the 80s at the end of the day. And then when Turner acquired them both and used the bones to create Cartoon Network, they kind of just forgot about all the Ruby-Spears properties in all their celebrations of old animation that they had the rights to.
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Jan 23, 2023 02:59
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Ruby Spears Megaman was an institution and I won't hear otherwise.
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Jan 23, 2023 02:59
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SlothfulCobra posted:Ruby-Spears was a weird offshoot of Hanna Barbera, and I think Hanna Barbera was already dealing with a slump at the time, so Ruby-Spears had to deal with the late 70s without the advantage of a decade of content and IPs to use as a crutch. And then in the 80s while there was a boom of money going into animation that floated them both, neither really created much worthwhile in the 80s at the end of the day. Well aside from Thundarr The Barbarian, that one basically gets treated by WB & CN as a Hanna-Barbera series, probably because it's not only one of the few shows Ruby-Spears did that was any good(and fits in very comfortably with H-B's own "Action Series"), but also one of their few shows of any note that isn't based on an outside license and thus are more or less completely free in how they use it
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Jan 23, 2023 03:43
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Flopsy posted:Same and I'm even older. A lot of these I'm just finding out about this week. Didn't they make a cartoon about the Rubik's cube too and it was supposed to be a friendly alien or something? Like they made cartoons about drat well anything coherency or plot be damned. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYs_GCy9PRk Also holy poo poo, "Goldie Gold and Action Jack" — I remember that promo coming on and thinking "what is this, cartoons for grownups or something? I don't want to see some dumb adults, I thought it was going to be like Richie Rich"
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Jan 23, 2023 04:15
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Data Graham posted:Also holy poo poo, "Goldie Gold and Action Jack" — I remember that promo coming on and thinking "what is this, cartoons for grownups or something? I don't want to see some dumb adults, I thought it was going to be like Richie Rich" From a historical perspective some of these are kind of neat, with Goldie and others having character designs by Jack Kirby. They're not, you know, good to watch but anything that got The King a paycheck can't be all bad.
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Jan 23, 2023 04:45
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Dawgstar posted:From a historical perspective some of these are kind of neat, with Goldie and others having character designs by Jack Kirby. They're not, you know, good to watch but anything that got The King a paycheck can't be all bad. Thundarr is legitimately good though and also has designs by Jack Kirby
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Jan 23, 2023 05:13
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Oh, is Yolo: Silver Destiny going to have continuity now? Fun start to the season and honestly just glad that it didn't get cancelled suddenly with WB's moves.
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Jan 23, 2023 07:06
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Apparently in the new Velma ep, Daphne, I feel sorta bad. The design side of this show did a lovely job, but loving hell do I enjoy a freight train on fire. I hope the designers aren't hurt by it because they're all doing their best, and their best is very good! The writers, I hope they... do better.
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Jan 23, 2023 20:26
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drrockso20 posted:Thundarr is legitimately good though and also has designs by Jack Kirby Makes sense. The concept was pretty in line with some of Kirby's work, too.
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Jan 23, 2023 22:15
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I watched every single episode of Allen Gregory when it was on...I don't know if Velma is bad enough for that kind of hate-watching (yet?) but I'm probably still going to keep my eye on it, at least through this thread.Das Boo posted:Apparently in the new Velma ep, Daphne, If I fired up my old AO3 account, I bet I could find a more engaging, better written, funnier Velma-POV Mary Sue fic with more character integrity in less than 15 minutes. 
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Jan 23, 2023 22:18
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Das Boo posted:The writers, I hope they... do better. Hell no, double the gently caress down and let’s see how deep this pit goes. Renew and order two more seasons now, no notes!
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Jan 23, 2023 23:06
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Das Boo posted:Apparently in the new Velma ep, Daphne, The people doing the animation work for Velma are really going above and beyond, the gags that do work are mostly visual-based, and I sincerely hope that everyone who's drawn anything for this show gets to draw other things in the future. Also, a quick shout out to the voice actors on the show who are also doing their best to give life to the lines that they're given. Especially Glenn Howerton who's managing to make a nothing character engaging through sheer force of vocal emotion, he's giving me the same "Wow this is dumb, but that dude sure can act" feelings I got watching him in The Hunt. Glenn Howerton is a good actor, I wish he'd get some better roles outside of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. The problem is, like you correctly identified, the writing. It's very bad! It didn't have to be bad, but it is! The writing for Velma (the character) is especially bad, which is a problem because she's the protagonist and thus gets the most lines. YeahTubaMike posted:I watched every single episode of Allen Gregory when it was on...I don't know if Velma is bad enough for that kind of hate-watching (yet?) but I'm probably still going to keep my eye on it, at least through this thread. At this point, I wouldn't say Velma is as bad as Allen Gregory. At the very least, unlike Allen Gregory, they didn't make one of the main characters a rapist. I'm on the record as saying Velma isn't THAT bad, just incredibly mediocre and thus far I stand by that (seasons not over yet though, so I may end up eating those words). I think the show Velma reminds me of most is Chozen: bad writing and unlikable characters, but the voice actors and the animators are putting in so much effort that it elevates the show into being kind of tolerable and you get a little bummed that some talented people are clearly having their time wasted but at least they got a paycheck.
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Jan 24, 2023 02:49
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FWIW I enjoyed the third and fourth episodes of Velma a lot more. Thought the interactions were pretty funny, and I like some of the escalating gags, like the couple in the background who are more and more aggressively making out, or the misadventures of the kid with the severed leg. Plus the script's dropped the Signal From Fred / Dischism material now, and are telling decently funny episodic stories. I don't have a problem with Velma as a character, or the ridiculous love knot everyone's being tied into -- they're just an absurdist reduction of the jokes people already make about Scooby Doo. And, like I said, I'm laughing.
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Jan 24, 2023 03:14
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Yeah most of the pictures I've seen look fine and pretty, it's just the ideas that art is communicating are awful.
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Jan 24, 2023 03:31
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After seeing reviews of the third and fourth episodes of Velma, I'm just kind of...indifferent. The third episode seemed underwhelming, but the fourth episode was both unfunny AND gross. Like, I know that it's supposed to be "ironic" or whatever when middle aged cops openly objectify girls who are in high school or Fred objectifies the "ugly" painter lady but that doesn't make it any funnier or less gross. I think that's probably why I'll never like the show -- because all of its "comedy" is just self-aware meta references delivered without any humor or nuance whatsoever.Space Cadet Omoly posted:Also, a quick shout out to the voice actors on the show who are also doing their best to give life to the lines that they're given. Especially Glenn Howerton who's managing to make a nothing character engaging through sheer force of vocal emotion, he's giving me the same "Wow this is dumb, but that dude sure can act" feelings I got watching him in The Hunt. I had similar feelings about Glenn Howerton as Ernie on The Cleveland Show.
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Jan 24, 2023 06:14
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YeahTubaMike posted:I had similar feelings about Glenn Howerton as Ernie on The Cleveland Show. How did I not catch this what the gently caress
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Jan 24, 2023 06:22
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Electric Phantasm posted:How did I not catch this what the gently caress A lot of people didn't know Kevin Michael Richardson voiced Lester either. It's hard to tell what's general knowledge and what's me geeking out over how awesome voice acting is.
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Jan 24, 2023 06:42
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