|
I am glad you are finally free, then.
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2022 16:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 01:58 |
|
|
Happy Calibration, Goon Invictus
|
|
#
?
Dec 28, 2022 02:46
|
|
|
Happy Calibration indeed. Anyone had a chance to look at the Sids draft manuscript yet?
|
|
#
?
Jan 1, 2023 02:41
|
|
|
KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Happy Calibration indeed. I've been working my way through it, ~%60 through the Charms chapter now. By and large I really like it. The fluff is good, the themes of the splat are well explained and expanded on from previous editions, the Charmsets are much more broadly functional while still maintaining the conceptual weirdness that's always made the Sids my favorites. It does seem like their kit is insanely Willpower hungry, though; not sure how that will limit them in play. The book's been good enough so far that I'm shopping around in my friend group for 3-5 people willing to do the work of learning and playing a Sidereals game because I really want to run one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 3, 2023 21:18
|
|
|
I've gone through the manuscript. Sidereal Prophesy basically uses the sorcerous working framework, it's nice. Sidereals all get Auspicious Prospects for (Caste) built in as an anima power, so they always get poke fate and see if destiny likes it. Instant plot hook material. Their Excellency's target number reduction does a lot of work and basically gets rid of most dice tricks from their charmset, freeing up space for all the fun effect weirdness. None of the Abilities feel bloated. Simply because of that, it's my favorite charmset yet, and has gotten me seriously considering 3e again after shelving it for a long time. Sidereal MAs are in there and not as difficult to acquire and use as they were in previous editions. Probably more functional, but hard for me to say. A new one does time loop shenanigans. Aside from mechanical things, they made Yu-Shan feel more like a whole continent city, with different environments and neighborhoods and dangers. I could see a lot of adventures taking place just in Yu-Shan, and not bureaucracy stuff. Slightly Lions posted:It does seem like their kit is insanely Willpower hungry, though; not sure how that will limit them in play.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2023 01:07
|
|
|
I'm pretty pleased with the Sidereals manuscript, but only a coward would write Avoidance Kata as a teleport stapled to a memory tweak rather than an actual retcon of history.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2023 02:28
|
|
|
I really appreciate how much of the Investigation tree is based on Making Little Guys
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2023 05:04
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:I'm pretty pleased with the Sidereals manuscript, but only a coward would write Avoidance Kata as a teleport stapled to a memory tweak rather than an actual retcon of history. Isn't one of the Three Big Impossibilities that you can't do actual time travel?
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2023 06:48
|
|
|
But "And I Was Never Here" is cool. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2023 06:57
|
|
|
Quackles posted:Isn't one of the Three Big Impossibilities that you can't do actual time travel? Retconning the past isn't exactly time travel, since you're not actually going back in time, just altering the past from the perspective of the present. I can see why writers get leery about it though. (My understanding is the general prohibition on time travel is more because Exalted shouldn't have simple ways of undoing your past fuckups. A limited "I was never there" effect isn't really messing with that.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2023 07:39
|
|
|
Quackles posted:Isn't one of the Three Big Impossibilities that you can't do actual time travel? Well, it's not, as Hidingo says. Also as Hidingo says, the key thing about it is that it doesn't erase or undo consequences (except, I suppose, as they pertain to your physical location henceforth), such that if someone chops your arm off in round 1 you'll appear elsewhere in round 2 in a situation in which you could plausibly have lost your arm, because you really did.
|
|
#
?
Jan 4, 2023 20:32
|
|
|
How playable has 3e ended up being? I'm looking at it with the advantage of Foundry tools which seem excellent (caveat that there's no charms plugin, but, it's definitely keeping track of all the fiddly stuff). I'm aware the basic solar charms are kind of a mess, but, A: other splats seem much better, and B: Golden Calibration looks pretty usable?
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2023 17:13
|
|
|
It's fine, mostly. There are definitely issues, but many of them are resolved by not playing Solars[1]. The initiative-based combat system is a genuinely good idea, but I'd really like to see one or two more generations of iteration on it to avoid the issues it has[2]. Every splat has a FUCKTON of charms, so there's a bit of up-front shock you have to get through to decide what to play. Its large-scale social effects systems are pretty bad[3], but the sorcerous workings system is solid and can be refluffed for other projects. Everything works much better than it did in 2e, and it's at least a full step up from Actually Bad systems like D&D or Shadowrun. If you like the setting and the themes, you'll be able to have fun with it and not hate yourself for trying to run it. 1) Some issues that exist for Solars, but much less so for other splats: Initiative bloat, half your charms being dice tricks, half your powers being large scale effects with insufficient mechanical backing, the Entire Craft Tree, Single Point Shining In The Void 2) While it leads to some interesting tactical effects, having your "combat power/hp" and your "turn order initiative" be the same number makes things confusing and complex for new players. If you want a boss fight to be able to survive against multiple PC attackers, it either needs so much soak that it becomes a sponge or high enough defenses combat becomes a wiff-fest. 3) To be fair, I have never found a system with actually good large-scale social effects rules (such as city management, infrastructure, social management etc)
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2023 18:01
|
|
|
spectralent posted:How playable has 3e ended up being? I'm looking at it with the advantage of Foundry tools which seem excellent (caveat that there's no charms plugin, but, it's definitely keeping track of all the fiddly stuff). I'm aware the basic solar charms are kind of a mess, but, A: other splats seem much better, and B: Golden Calibration looks pretty usable? I played in a game from Essence 1-6 where the ST tried to be as by-the-book as possible and the actual system was fine. I ended up feeling less powerful than a same-essence 2e solar until we absolutely broke the system at E6 but it did lend itself to some great power fantasy gameplay. My one real complaint, after how the charms are a mess, is it seems both too easy and too hard to get Limit. I went 20-ish sessions before breaking the first time, and the session after I limit broke I ended up gaining 7 limit over the course of two scenes. I'm not sure how to fix that but it was a peeve of mine.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2023 22:24
|
|
|
I might just be tooting my own horn here, but I don't really feel like "too many Charms" is actually a problem once you have them in some kind of... properly calibrated... form where they're better-organized and easier to read and interpret.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2023 22:37
|
|
|
Kaza42 posted:3) To be fair, I have never found a system with actually good large-scale social effects rules (such as city management, infrastructure, social management etc) My group has also been having fun with Blades in the Dark, which has a pretty good “control/protect your gang’s turf while messing with your rivals’ turf” component.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2023 23:45
|
|
|
I've looked at Reign, but it was a while ago. I remember not caring for what I saw but don't recall exactly what or why
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2023 02:45
|
|
|
Reign 2E just came out but I haven’t gotten around to reading it yet.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2023 03:00
|
|
|
Berkshire Hunts posted:Reign 2E just came out but I haven’t gotten around to reading it yet. My brain is now blaring with sirens and red alert noises, thank you for this information!
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2023 03:31
|
|
|
Mile'ionaha posted:My brain is now blaring with sirens and red alert noises, thank you for this information! I just checked drivethru and it’s possible I have confused “final version released to Kickstarter backers” with “actually available for purchase”
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2023 04:07
|
|
|
It's not really true that Solar charms are mostly or even significantly made of dice tricks. While Crafts obviously stands as an exception, most trees are going to give you between zero and two tricks that apply broadly (like Melee's reroll-1s) and otherwise actually do stuff in some narratively-comprehensible away, albeit often stuff that's very specific and contextual when you're in the middle of the tree. The writing could be clearer and some of them are seriously overdesigned but you're not just going to be buying an endless litany of double 9s, reroll 6s, subtract enemy 1s...
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 03:29
|
|
|
I have distinct memories of playing an Investigation supernal solar and noticing that there was literally a branch of the charm tree that was just dice tricks, thankfully partitioned off from the rest of the more interesting charms so I could ignore it. That character also had Awareness, which is a third dice trick charms, and often enough just contesting stealth or join battle. Maybe those two trees are particularly egregious (along with Craft), but it left an impression.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 04:13
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure you're wrong about Investigation. It has like, a scenelong that gives you bonus successes, a 1/scene free full excellency, and there are a couple Charms whose unique incidental effects include dice tricks, but they're stuff like "in this circumstance, you can take a special action normal people can't AND that special action doubles 9s" or whatnot. Awareness is a bit Melee-like in that it's got a basic omnipresent (if you're willing to pay for it) dice trick in the first charm and then a special super-trick that can kick in 1/scene but all the rest of it is unique (if often extremely marginal) actions and powers that may or may not entail a better-than-average dice roll but use that roll to adjudicate something new.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 04:42
|
|
|
The really big trail of pure dice tricks is in Medicine, but it's also at the end of Medicine, so rather than something you have to buy it's just something you can buy after you have all the treatment methods if the ST is throwing the Greatest Contagion at you and your excellency just isn't cutting it. The dice adders in Investigation are a more normal part of the tree and also much more important and useful, because you're frequently going to be rolling Investigation against somebody else. If you're Zenithgata trying to catch Lupinight the Third, you're going to want those dice tricks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 04:46
|
|
|
imo it’s basically just a complete presentation failure - walls of text that make trees feel like 1e Lunar charm clouds in their lack of direction (even if that’s not what’s *really* going on), and broadly applicable dice tricks that feel useful but also simultaneously profoundly boring and like a regression from unified/centralized excellencies set against narratively cooler but narrower/smaller/less universally applicable effects
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 04:47
|
|
|
LGD posted:imo it’s basically just a complete presentation failure - walls of text that make trees feel like 1e Lunar charm clouds in their lack of direction (even if that’s not what’s *really* going on), and broadly applicable dice tricks that feel useful but also simultaneously profoundly boring and like a regression from unified/centralized excellencies set against narratively cooler but narrower/smaller/less universally applicable effects It's certainly a presentation failure — I found that, once I untangled it, most of the 3e Solar Charms are surprisingly elegant pieces of design; it's just very hard to figure this out because the text is so tangled because OPP doesn't have any kind of outside editors (or the time to bring one in, honestly — it took me a year to make Golden Calibration, which wasn't just editing, but it was a lot of editing). That's on top of the extremely bad layout that makes the problems and the difficulty of referencing anything even worse. (I was honestly kind of annoyed at how the Charm formatting in Sidereals makes this even worse, but I felt obliged to go along with the new format for resets.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 04:53
|
|
|
In general, there are going to be very few dice tricks in the trees that pertain to making rolls against other characters that might well themselves be PCs (meaning combat charms and social influence charms), because it's the only way to keep the math even somewhat in hand. Melee giving you cheap reroll-1s on basically every attack is actually a standout because you're mostly not even going to get that on your favorite attack ability, although you might instead be stacking indefinite onslaught penalties or something.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 04:57
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:I'm pretty sure you're wrong about Investigation. It has like, a scenelong that gives you bonus successes, a 1/scene free full excellency, and there are a couple Charms whose unique incidental effects include dice tricks, but they're stuff like "in this circumstance, you can take a special action normal people can't AND that special action doubles 9s" or whatnot. Awareness is a bit Melee-like in that it's got a basic omnipresent (if you're willing to pay for it) dice trick in the first charm and then a special super-trick that can kick in 1/scene but all the rest of it is unique (if often extremely marginal) actions and powers that may or may not entail a better-than-average dice roll but use that roll to adjudicate something new. I checked Investigation, and no, I remember precisely. Scenelong bonus successes, 1/scene free full excellency, 1/scene double 8s, and 1/day reset a "down" power and gain 1wp doing so. All cordoned off into their own branch, stemming off of Crafty Observation Method. I suppose you could argue that the last one is something 'new' by allowing you to reset a cooldown and use something twice in quick succession, but I probably wouldn't. I also checked Awareness, and no, a third of the set are things that do nothing except manipulate dice probabilities or give a few dice or successes on something you already can do, usually while contesting stealth, larceny, or join battle. 8 of 22 charms, 36%, and that's excluding charms that do a dice trick + something new, or something marginally flavorful like Scent-Honing Prana. Rand Brittain posted:The dice adders in Investigation are a more normal part of the tree and also much more important and useful, because you're frequently going to be rolling Investigation against somebody else. If you're Zenithgata trying to catch Lupinight the Third, you're going to want those dice tricks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 05:51
|
|
|
LimitedReagent posted:I checked Investigation, and no, I remember precisely. Scenelong bonus successes, 1/scene free full excellency, 1/scene double 8s, and 1/day reset a "down" power and gain 1wp doing so. All cordoned off into their own branch, stemming off of Crafty Observation Method. I suppose you could argue that the last one is something 'new' by allowing you to reset a cooldown and use something twice in quick succession, but I probably wouldn't. Crafy Observation Method is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about; it lets you use the "case scene" action in a handful of seconds rather than the normal fifteen minutes' usage time. You do get double 9s on that action, but that's not actually what the charm's for. A cooldown reset is factually not a dice trick, and none of the cooldown powers it resets are. And you can't actually count a free excellency as a dice trick even if you're going to use the broadest possible definition of "anything that increases your odds of success" (under which an excellency is, itself, a dice trick); you can always full excellency, so something that lets you do it for free is a cost saver. On Awareness, too, you're glossing over the concrete effects of Charms which are bundled with but not limited to pure abstract roll bonuses. For instance, Living Pulse Perception gives you +1 non-charm success in certain situations... but it also tells you if an invisible guy's in the room with you, whether or not you succeed on your roll to actually find or fight him. Unswerving Eye is a big vs. Larceny probability swing by default, but it also entitles you to contest Larceny-like magic that's supposed to be explicitly undetectable. Awareness is definitely higher on the Charms which do literally nothing but slide roll probabilities in your favor (which is actually pretty attractive since Awareness is one of the abilities involved in really high-stakes contested rolls, but they're unlike attack rolls in that on their own they're only ever going to protect you) but that's still like Sensory Acuity Prana, Studied Ear Espial, Awakening Eye, Inner Eye Focus, Knowing Beyond Silence, Blink.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 06:30
|
|
|
All I know is I ain't got time to read this much poo poo for mechanics anymore. That and being bound to my half-remembered half-misremembered mashup of 2E canon, group(s) canon, and headcanon like a yozi.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 06:37
|
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:or the time to bring one in, honestly I feel like I need to point out here that the Exalted 3e core was put on Kickstarter in May 2013 with claims it was "almost complete" and an estimated date of October 2013, was finally (supposedly) sent to layout January 2015, and then took a full eight months before a proof copy was sent to CCP in September 2015. Maybe they could have used the literal year and a half of extra time in there to bring in an editor.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 06:45
|
|
|
Roadie posted:I feel like I need to point out here that the Exalted 3e core was put on Kickstarter in May 2013 with claims it was "almost complete" and an estimated date of October 2013, was finally (supposedly) sent to layout January 2015, and then took a full eight months before a proof copy was sent to CCP in September 2015. Okay, but how, though? They couldn't send it to an editor while it they were writing it because they were still writing it. They couldn't send it to an editor while it was in layout because then they would have had to lay it out again. There's no actual point in the process where they could send the thing off to an editor that wouldn't have added months, probably a lot of months, to the total time needed to complete it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 06:51
|
|
|
Roadie posted:I feel like I need to point out here that the Exalted 3e core was put on Kickstarter in May 2013 with claims it was "almost complete" and an estimated date of October 2013, was finally (supposedly) sent to layout January 2015, and then took a full eight months before a proof copy was sent to CCP in September 2015. I edited the rules text as much as the developers would tolerate. (In particular, I standardized "User of charm is always she, target of charm is always he, they is reserved for multiple targets," and if you think the Charms are hard to read now, you should have seen them before I did that.) EDIT: Also, then I wrote Tomb of Dreams (except for the antagonist stat blocks; Vance did those), the first section of which is the core rules for Ex3 in vastly fewer words, because I saw the problem and that was the only avenue I had to really address it. The editor tried, folks. I really did. Stephenls fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Jan 23, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 07:19
|
|
|
Stephenls posted:I edited the rules text as much as the developers would tolerate. Yeah, I think you did the best job possible within the constraints of the project, but what a huge technical writing the size of something like Exalted needs is to go to a specialized technical editor, and that technical editor needs to be someone who is familiar with RPGs generally but is not part of the Exalted dev team specifically. The editor in question will want at least three to six months to do his work, and he will charge at least ten thousand dollars, which... is why basically nobody does this. Getting really good editing costs more than most RPGs spend on art on top of the time you lose, and at the same time nobody will ever really call you out for not getting an outside editor but will absolutely notice if the book is light on art. (I was able to do Golden Calibration because, basically, I had the benefit of eight years of hindsight to substitute for the other qualifications, and because I didn't answer to anybody but myself and was able to build it to meet a certain set of goals without having to argue with either a developer or a company owner.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 07:35
|
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:Yeah, I think you did the best job possible within the constraints of the project, but what a huge technical writing the size of something like Exalted needs is to go to a specialized technical editor, and that technical editor needs to be someone who is familiar with RPGs generally but is not part of the Exalted dev team specifically. Yeah, I had three weeks. I do have an actual editing course done through community college (my only post-secondary education, in fact, sigh; I paid money for it and got it specifically so I could edit a few White Wolf books and haven't used it since), so I knew about the basics like "Keep a style guide by keeping track of every change or stylistic choice you make and write it down so you can do it consistently," at least. There would never under any circumstances have been the money or time budget for the sort of serious technical editor that a, let's face it, technical manual of the scope of that the Ex3 corebook is would require to do "properly." Stephenls fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Jan 23, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 07:40
|
|
|
Stephenls posted:I edited the rules text as much as the developers would tolerate. I want to frame this.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 07:48
|
|
|
I am glad I still enjoy reading Exalted books, but it is mainly because I only skim the Charms for things that sound neat. Still a huge fan of the setting but the laughable idea of ever playing just gets farther away. I was hoping Essence edition would be cool but ironically I think it just feels too bland. Not a surprise in contrast to the bloated decadence that is 3rd but a shame.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 15:30
|
|
|
Stephenls posted:
Thank you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 16:11
|
|
|
Roadie posted:I feel like I need to point out here that the Exalted 3e core was put on Kickstarter in May 2013 with claims it was "almost complete" and an estimated date of October 2013, ah, but you see, as we discovered, that was a lie.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 21:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 01:58 |
|
|
Roadie posted:the Exalted 3e core was put on Kickstarter in May 2013 Coming up on the tenth anniversary of that now 
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2023 23:29
|
|