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PoorWeather posted:Because of the hardware requirements of running these models (for the foreseeable future and barring spectacularly exponential gains in the power of personal systems, a trend that's been sputtering out rapidly), there are only ever going to be two types of viable machine learning datasets: 1) Small models with carefully curated training data and select applications, and 2) corporate models which can afford the massive server requirements to swallow everything on the internet. This is discounting the fairly likely possibility of less latency sensitive/more distributable methods from being developed, making a F@H like approach practical. Its weird that you're so comfortable extrapolating hardware trends while completely ignoring the possibility of the software getting better. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Jan 22, 2023 |
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Jan 22, 2023 13:09
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SCheeseman posted:This is discounting the fairly likely possibility of less latency sensitive/more distributable methods from being developed, making a F@H like approach practical. Even if that happened (questionable for at least many years, imo, from my albeit limited understanding of the technology - there is a huge amount of distance that needs to be traveled to make something on the scale of Midjourney viable on someone's home PC), it wouldn't change my point. Even if you don't consider using someone's art to build a model without permission unethical, there is fundamentally no way you could legislate to stop that in practice with an open source, decentralized system - like people have said a million times, it's already hard to spot AI art in the wild. A scenario where an advance like this has happened and copyright law means you can't sell a model fed a billion people's work without paying them just means that big corporations like Disney are going to be focused on more specialized models while the ones with the broadest training data exist in a grey, open-source space. Meanwhile, where do you think we're left in a world where OpenAI has made mass-scraping its business model without contest? Where there's a profit motive to swallow everything under the sun and spit it out as a product? This doesn't end with art. I really don't understand why people are so eager to defend this use of the technology, especially when the interests who seem to wanna push it are so sketchy. Like, I'm not saying you should uncritically support every questionable lawsuit that's being thrown around, but... Well, take the GitHub Copilot lawsuit going on. A corporation slurped up a huge amount of open source data, uncredited and unpaid, and used that to make a product which they will now rent to you for a monthly fee. Is it a good thing for them to be legally allowed to do that, especially in relation to the development of an open source equivalent? For the users? For the kind of people who would submit their code in the first place?
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Jan 22, 2023 14:09
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Scraping your data and selling it without your consent has been the main revenue stream of most businesses for the past 18 years at least (I don't even mean "internet businesses" - this is where retail makes a lot of their money these days too). Woulda been rad as hell if people who are upset about it would have been upset about it when it was social media and Google and Target scraping your personal data to put together dossiers about your health history but that already set a nightmare hellscape precedent. The argument still doesn't resonate with me because I have always operated under the assumption that anything I upload online could and would be stolen, reposted, or reused without permission or credit. It has never, at any point in the history of computers, been possible to "protect" an image that you upload online, short of adding watermarks which would also do a lot to defeat AI scraping, for any artists who care enough. Also when Common Crawl did the original scraping, robots.txt rules were adhered to, meaning that any artist who had put forth the slighest modicum of effort to flag their art as not-crawlable didn't get crawled for the AI data set. The only artists who got crawled/scraped are those who (1) didn't do that, or (2) posted their art on public social media platforms, which were already explicitly scraping and crawling all of their data (not just data related to the use of that app/platform either), and collating it into sellable packages. I can't blame artists for using public social media platforms to promote themselves but this exact kind of behavior out of those social media platforms has been abundantly, explicitly, absurdly clear over the years and no one can pretend it caught them by surprise when their art was scraped from them into the original Common Crawl dataset, because that is literally the entire business model of the platforms they chose to post their art on: selling corporations access to your data. deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jan 22, 2023 |
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Jan 22, 2023 14:20
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I think the outcomes have the potential to be bad either way, I'm just not convinced that using copyright to kick AI art in the shins and maybe hobbling it for a while is a good idea and has longer term consequences that many are ignoring. If Disney wants the same legal outcomes as you, it's time to rethink. Like, "questionable, at least for many years"? No duh, but it's not so far out you won't still be alive and dealing with the consequences of this kind of knee jerk thinking. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Jan 22, 2023 |
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Jan 22, 2023 14:21
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deep dish peat moss posted:short of adding watermarks which would also do a lot to defeat AI scraping, for any artists who care enough. This won't work, it'll end up learning what watermarks are and become adept at removing them.
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Jan 22, 2023 14:27
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deep dish peat moss posted:Scraping your data and selling it without your consent has been the main revenue stream of most businesses for the past 18 years at least. Woulda been rad as hell if people who are upset about it would have been upset about it when it was social media and Google scraping your personal data but that already set a nightmare hellscape precedent with that. People have been upset about it. And this is a great time to get even more upset and maybe change something while there's energy around the topic. SCheeseman posted:I think the outcomes have the potential to be bad either way, I'm just not convinced that using copyright to kick AI art in the shins and maybe hobbling it for a while is a good idea and has longer term consequences that many are ignoring. If Disney wants the same legal outcomes as you, it's time to rethink. I could just as well say that if Elon Musk wants the same legal outcomes as you, it's time for a rethink. AI isn't going to cease to exist if you nip this stuff in the bud. Stable Diffusion exists, non-US countries exist. And again, I don't think it's a good idea to get too absolutist about this stuff either way. It's almost impossible to pursue any legalist agenda in a capitalist society without being in alignment with some megacorporate interest. You should just have a firm sense of exactly how far that goes (like, say, not giving money to a corporation to install more copyright lobbyists versus seeking a very specific protection).
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Jan 22, 2023 14:33
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I guess the reason it makes me cringe when people are up in arms about AI is that the people I tend to see who are up in arms about AI are LIVID about it and talk about it like the antichrist, but when it came to social media scraping all they really say is "Hey that's not cool!" and then use the platforms anyway. It's like aliens came to invade Earth and a bunch of people put up no resistance but now they're fuckin' pissed that the aliens control chuck-e-cheeze This drop in the bucket is trending while people just go "yeah i'm upset about that too I swear" about the ocean that the drop came out of. So at this point I immediately write off anyone saying "AI IS BAD BECAUSE NO CONSENT AND IT DOES XYZ AND A TECHBRO IS IN CHARGE..." because anyone saying that is missing the forest for one specific tree that they don't like. If they cared about the actual issue, they'd be talking about data privacy and a consumer's data rights on a broader scale (because HOLY poo poo ai images are like the smallest possible threat out of all of it), not "b-b-b-b-but AI!"-ing in an AI art thread/community/whatever. The reason AI scraping was able to do what it did in the first place was because people weren't up in arms enough about data privacy over the last 18 years to prevent it. e: This post sounds very aggressive and accusatory so for context I want to say that I'm not saying you (PoorWeather) specifically or any specific poster is livid/treating AI like the antichrist/"b-b-b-b-but AI!"ing, that's just the general vibe out of people who pop into AI image communities/threads to post about how bad AI is. Data privacy is probably the single biggest not-immediately-life-threatening issue our generation(s) will face, but the scraping of AI tools is only a symptom - the free reign corporations get to non-consensually use personal data in the first place is the disease that needs to be treated. Our data is being used on a much larger and more damaging scale than making software that creates images of things (like stoking corporate-sanctioned genocides or informing a teenage girl's family that she was pregnant without her consent or, hell, large-scale election manipulation through years of ideologically-targeted sponsored social media posts!). Like yeah you can be upset about all of these things at once, but why is the discussion all focused around AI image generation and Elon Musk these days when it's not even in the same echelon of evil? deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jan 22, 2023 |
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Jan 22, 2023 14:37
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PoorWeather posted:I could just as well say that if Elon Musk wants the same legal outcomes as you, it's time for a rethink. PoorWeather posted:AI isn't going to cease to exist if you nip this stuff in the bud. Stable Diffusion exists, non-US countries exist. And again, I don't think it's a good idea to get too absolutist about this stuff either way. It's almost impossible to pursue any legalist agenda in a capitalist society without being in alignment with some megacorporate interest. You should just have a firm sense of exactly how far that goes (like, say, not giving money to a corporation to install more copyright lobbyists versus seeking a very specific protection).
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Jan 22, 2023 14:42
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Lawsuits didn't start till you could run this at home. They aren't suing Microsoft, or Meta, or Google. No major corporation has shown any indication that they have any interest at all in "protecting" artists.
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Jan 22, 2023 14:50
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Maybe we should have separate threads for posting about AI art, and posting about using AI art tools. Because this thread is one of the only places on the internet where people who are using these tools to do cool things are talking about their process and sharing neat things, and it's very hard to find anywhere on the internet where people are doing that without someone popping in every page or two to say something about how evil Elon Musk is or how awful it is that this AI artist studied other artists to learn how to make art. I mean, sheesh, this is an ai image thread, no one in their right mind uses Elon's image-generation AI because it's the worst one available  Also for what it's worth Elon and OpenAI had nothing to do with the scraping and crawling of the dataset, that was done by Common Crawl and collated into an AI dataset by LAION. Elon is not involved in the current lawsuits, which explicitly did not target DALL-E, presumably because of how bad it is (or possibly because they are absolutely frivolous lawsuits based on hideous luddite misunderstandings of the technology and of art as a whole, and they don't want to go against the one platform that actually has the money to smash them in court so they targeted the small-fry open source AIs like StableDiffusion and DreamUp instead) (I am not defending Elon Musk he's a giant piece of poo poo, just why give him credit for any of this when he's not even a recognizable player in the AI image game) deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Jan 22, 2023 |
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Jan 22, 2023 15:16
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Doing some more latent space exploring.      
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Jan 22, 2023 16:01
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Sedgr posted:They aren't suing Microsoft, or Meta, or Google. I mean, there have been data collection lawsuits surrounding these three for years. They just don't tend to change must systemically (outside of the EU which did manage to pass some decent legislation) because most of this stuff doesn't run afoul of copyright and technically has an opt-out. deep dish peat moss posted:e: This post sounds very aggressive and accusatory so for context I want to say that I'm not saying you (PoorWeather) specifically or any specific poster is livid/treating AI like the antichrist/"b-b-b-b-but AI!"ing, that's just the general vibe out of people who pop into AI image communities/threads to post about how bad AI is. That's fine, I didn't take it as an attack or anything.
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Jan 22, 2023 16:26
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More from that same Tokyo set in video format. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEKsHV6sGZQ  
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Jan 22, 2023 20:10
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deep dish peat moss posted:Maybe we should have separate threads for posting about AI art, and posting about using AI art tools. Because this thread is one of the only places on the internet where people who are using these tools to do cool things are talking about their process and sharing neat things, and it's very hard to find anywhere on the internet where people are doing that without someone popping in every page or two to say something about how evil Elon Musk is or how awful it is that this AI artist studied other artists to learn how to make art. Sorry can't hear you *makes low quality search engine optimized site after low quality search engine optimized site to profit off of trend*. Better yet set up an AI to do it! edit: Well that's not fair some of them might be alright but there's an undercurrent of "WE WANT MONEY/YOUR INFO" that does not appeal to me. Don't they know to wait until you dominate the space to do that? Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jan 22, 2023 |
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Jan 22, 2023 20:15
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Neat to see what AI can do going forward. https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/10im0mx/nvidia_just_released_a_new_eye_contact_feature/
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Jan 22, 2023 20:22
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Vlaphor posted:Neat to see what AI can do going forward. Unbroken eye contact for an elongated period is a little weird. Cool tech though
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Jan 22, 2023 20:27
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv9cdTh8cUo From a lawyer that is heavily plugged into digital effects and AI production
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Jan 22, 2023 20:35
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TheWorldsaStage posted:Unbroken eye contact for an elongated period is a little weird. Cool tech though "So you can gently caress around on a zoom meeting" is the very first use the guy talked about lmao
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Jan 22, 2023 20:53
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv9cdTh8cUo I’m curious if any of the big online art communities are or will start requiring users to identify their work as being AI generated or not. Hard to enforce I’m sure, but there need to be people out there who want it filtered out when browsing ArtStation or whatever.
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Jan 23, 2023 01:26
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I played around with inpainting and made this
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Jan 23, 2023 02:29
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 Don Quixote in Hell
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Jan 23, 2023 03:35
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steckles posted:It’s a decent breakdown of some existing precedent. I guess the fundamental question is whether or not human curation of coordinates in the latent space counts as transformative or not. I could see a jury buying that and it would be the decision that most benefits capital. There are some attempts going on to set up "Artists First" hosting sites. How many, if any, aren't scams or implemented better than, like, Gab or Hive during the Twitter exoduses is an open question.
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Jan 23, 2023 03:45
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 quote:mom says we have art at home
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Jan 23, 2023 04:33
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If it were determined that a piece produced by stablediffusion is a derivative work wouldn't that mean everything produced by stablediffusion is a derivative work of everything it was trained against?
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Jan 23, 2023 19:30
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Jan 23, 2023 21:52
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I spent way too much time getting it to look like laying a planet instead of part of the bird's body not sure it looks like laying but gently caress it close enough. 
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Jan 23, 2023 21:55
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pixaal posted:I spent way too much time getting it to look like laying a planet instead of part of the bird's body not sure it looks like laying but gently caress it close enough. This is what so called "artists" don't want us to have.
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Jan 23, 2023 23:18
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Finally got my own (1070) PC hooked up with InvokeAI and I'm really enjoying the unified canvas. It's like an entirely fun new sandbox with how intuitive it is, I can't wait for full photoshop-level capabilities to eventually be available with this, there's a lot of little stuff I'd like to do with basic image manipulation between generations. But even the masking + outpainting/inpainting combo is a blast. doing 20 steps k_dpmpp_2_a right now and getting speeds quick enough I can actively work on a project without losing focus before it generates. will take any other suggestions for a good default sampler/steps now that I've got a set hardware limit to optimize for  
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Jan 23, 2023 23:44
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Someone has figured out "just tell it what you want changed" for SD. pix2pix:
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Jan 24, 2023 00:09
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LifeSunDeath fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Jan 24, 2023 |
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Jan 24, 2023 01:38
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Mozi fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Jan 24, 2023 |
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Jan 24, 2023 01:55
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OH poo poo
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Jan 24, 2023 01:58
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Jan 24, 2023 02:01
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Jan 24, 2023 02:24
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    e: very Wonka bong 
pixaal fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Jan 24, 2023 |
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Jan 24, 2023 02:51
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 DOUBLE BONG
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Jan 24, 2023 03:00
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Analytic Engine posted:
I think you mean 
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Jan 24, 2023 03:06
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Megazver posted:Someone has figured out "just tell it what you want changed" for SD. pix2pix: I regret nothing. "add breasts" I'm going to say this is  
Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Jan 24, 2023 |
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Jan 24, 2023 03:07
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pixaal posted:
wow!
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LifeSunDeath posted:wow! this should poo poo them out in I guess SD 2.1? I'm not sure what the notebook is using it's a 2.x 768 trained. P: Wily Wonka's Bong, Bong, Cannabis, Weed, bioluminescence, VantaBlack, 4k, 8k, high quality, reflective, cinematic lighting, universe, cosmic N: captcha, font, blurry, cartoon, flat, bland, dead, erotic, error, damaged, merged, bad, mustache
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