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Mellow_
Sep 13, 2010

:frog:

4th Stimpire Queen posted:

More tales from the bestest, most friendliest gaming community ever.



Elon loving gamer dads? Harassing others on the internet for merely existing?

Why I never.

E: drat another snipe I'm on a roll.

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Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SilkyTestyEarthworm-mobile.mp4

Only Kindness
Oct 12, 2016
Idle speculation (and to be honest I don't really give a poo poo about accuracy or truthfulness when discussing a failed crysis mod that somehow cost half a billion dollars and still isn't released after a decade) but I would think the reputation of the "best community" is buoyed by anyone shilling/streaming/youtubing it logging into their second session and finding they've been gifted millions of credits.

Wow, they say, how generous of the community, they must be good people - not realising that this conclusion doesn't flow from the premise.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

4th Stimpire Queen posted:

The Star Citizen FPS experience

Trigger warnings: amazing AI, lifelike NPCs, smart use of cover.

https://v.redd.it/6atqnkikcfda1/DASH_1080.mp4

Well then. :)

I always like seeing the reality of dreams and that it takes over a decade to make shooter man AI that is even quasi decent, and yet the mark is still missed.

Good thing the graphics look good and the eyeball of each guy that was shot was like an 8K PBR texture reflecting the world around them. Gameplay is secondary to ensuring that kind of fun is present.

Honestly it didn't hit the mark either because I didn't see a river in the video either. :colbert:

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Only Kindness posted:

Meanwhile, and apropos of nothing really, I'm 20 hours into Death Stranding, another relatively niche game all about moving boxes around, and it's still throwing new mechanics and ever more insane poo poo at me. An industry veteran, creating a new studio, took 3-4 years to make it. Mocap up the wazoo on recognisable named actors, pin-sharp modern graphics and art direction, licensed songs on the soundtrack, runs like butter on a 900-series card, and Epic gave it away for free a bit ago.

Just something to think about for any :trustme: fans about what is actually possible if you're competent (and not a washed-up grifting hack).

The only comparisons you can make are against stuff like Duke Nukem forever and Elite: Dangerous.

Any time you exit that playing field and compare cig against actual industry peers who also did the same thing cig did, Chris' rampant incompetence is difficult to justify.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Fidelitious posted:

This is exactly the thing I've mentioned before.
Some rando probably theorized this at some point on the forums in a desperate attempt to excuse the horrible "AI". It gets jumbled through several iterations of people remembering that they've read this somewhere, and eventually it's word of god that the AI isn't actually dogshit, it just ACTS like dogshit for very good and very technical reasons.

A quick glance through some reddit threads reveals people repeating this talking point over and over but no one seems able to provide a source from CIG very clearly saying that the AI is bad because it's on "low priority server threads".

There are no metrics behind any of the claims. I don't think cig said anything about it-- they just want to pretend it is all perfectly fine.

Everything cig is doing in regards to the MMO or anything that doesn't involve graphics or pre-rendered videos is second rate and far beyond their capabilities.

Even in the video I posted recently of one dude going through some campaign level, only about 10% or less of the NPCs moved or reacted in any way. The rest just stood around waiting to get killed. And none of them recognized their buddies were taking fire or they were taking fire until they actually got hit.

If this is after a decade... I don't know how long it will be before you have even serviceable combat from even shovelware-grade games in sc.

And if this is the kind of nonsense they're also dealing with in the single player sq404 game, I can see why it's not being released. Not even the most dedicated person would enjoy a single player experience that is barely reactive and you just walk through sterile levels killing static NPCs, and fighting in space ships takes 15+ minutes just to kill one bad guy.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Only Kindness posted:

Idle speculation (and to be honest I don't really give a poo poo about accuracy or truthfulness when discussing a failed crysis mod that somehow cost half a billion dollars and still isn't released after a decade) but I would think the reputation of the "best community" is buoyed by anyone shilling/streaming/youtubing it logging into their second session and finding they've been gifted millions of credits.

Wow, they say, how generous of the community, they must be good people - not realising that this conclusion doesn't flow from the premise.

I think the core issue there is the economy is hugely devastated despite Tony Z's incredible experience in the realm of MMO economics (he has zero experience but can write on a whiteboard nonsense).

What happens is the players who do play the game gift anyone who wants it, or they know who is playing the game for an audience, to have the best player experience they can possibly have, so they gift them enough money to buy everything and anything they want.

It helps the streamer show off whatever, but it belies the fact that the game isn't a functioning game in any way and money is utterly useless. This results in cig wipes regularly because they only way to fix their broken economy is to reset all the money back to 0 again, and then also all the stuff people earned which they didn't buy with real money also disappears... so it's that added inconvenience factor to continue to convince people to buy ships with real money.

It's just broken at core, foundational levels, and the players want to help make it look good and make it fun for new people by basically making playing the game pointless. Just buy the biggest ship and best armor and go have at it and discover the brokenness.

4th Stimpire Queen
May 4, 2022

Contemplate with nice thoughts and utterances.
Buy!
Buy now!
We evaluated the value!
Pick it now at the expected current price!
Now, before the sale is over!
The upgrade value will increase!
Buy now!

:lmao: at "price adjustment (increase)", as if CIG ever lowered the price of anything.

4th Stimpire Queen fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jan 23, 2023

4th Stimpire Queen
May 4, 2022

Contemplate with nice thoughts and utterances.
And we all like making GBS threads on Star Citizen, but what other game has breakdancing starships!?

https://v.redd.it/zjt133gh3oda1/DASH_1080.mp4

skaboomizzy
Nov 12, 2003

There is nothing I want to be. There is nothing I want to do.
I don't even have an image of what I want to be. I have nothing. All that exists is zero.
someone gave that ship the covid vaccine

Lammasu
May 8, 2019

lawful Good Monster

Only Kindness posted:

Meanwhile, and apropos of nothing really, I'm 20 hours into Death Stranding, another relatively niche game all about moving boxes around, and it's still throwing new mechanics and ever more insane poo poo at me. An industry veteran, creating a new studio, took 3-4 years to make it. Mocap up the wazoo on recognisable named actors, pin-sharp modern graphics and art direction, licensed songs on the soundtrack, runs like butter on a 900-series card, and Epic gave it away for free a bit ago.

Just something to think about for any :trustme: fans about what is actually possible if you're competent (and not a washed-up grifting hack).
I've said it before but look what Ninja Theory did with Hellblade. They did the motion capture in a meeting room with a freelance photographer. And they won a ton of awards. Melina Juergens won multiple awards for her performance. Chris Roberts had a big professional studio and ended up loving up and had to redo almost all of his work.
I'm really excited about Kojima's Xbox project if for no other reason is he went to a bunch of publishers, and they all said the idea was too crazy. He sold Sony on a delivery simulator video game, but that project was too out there.

Kesper North
Nov 3, 2011

EMERGENCY POWER TO PARTY

unmute 4 honk

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

Lol said the scorpion, lmao

4th Stimpire Queen posted:

The Star Citizen FPS experience

Trigger warnings: amazing AI, lifelike NPCs, smart use of cover.

https://v.redd.it/6atqnkikcfda1/DASH_1080.mp4

Good to see Line Of Defense has at least slightly improved

Scruffpuff
Dec 23, 2015

Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

The Titanic posted:

I think the core issue there is the economy is hugely devastated despite Tony Z's incredible experience in the realm of MMO economics (he has zero experience but can write on a whiteboard nonsense).

It's not nonsense. Let me show you:


We begin with high-level mathematics, much like the equations leveraged by CERN laboratories:




Here we see a rough outline of how server meshing will work.




The mathematical basis for the physics-based flight model:




Proof that proper scientific research on space was involved in the project from the beginning:




Tier-0 implentation of quanta:




A molecular closeup of a pixel changed from green to blue:




Server meshing, advanced:




Some brainstorming for possible types of missions:




And, finally, we see an image with his plans for dinner that evening:

shrach
Jan 10, 2004

daylight ssssaving time

4th Stimpire Queen posted:

Buy!
Buy now!
We evaluated the value!
Pick it now at the expected current price!
Now, before the sale is over!
The upgrade value will increase!
Buy now!

:lmao: at "price adjustment (increase)", as if CIG ever lowered the price of anything.



Thinking about all the citizen cognitive dissonance of being ok with this, probably excited if they own this jpeg and also that of course, you aren't pledging for a ship, you're supporting development and just getting a ship as a thank you.

4th Stimpire Queen
May 4, 2022

Contemplate with nice thoughts and utterances.

Scruffpuff posted:

It's not nonsense. Let me show you:

Ok, first things first. :five:

My fave gameplay, hopefully coming soon!



Obvious Scorpius concept art.



CIG's development model:



For bonus lolz, the whiteboard is from this 2014 article...9 years and 450ish million dollars ago.



Now do this one Scruffpuff!

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

4th Stimpire Queen posted:

Buy!
Buy now!
We evaluated the value!
Pick it now at the expected current price!
Now, before the sale is over!
The upgrade value will increase!
Buy now!

:lmao: at "price adjustment (increase)", as if CIG ever lowered the price of anything.



I think it'd be interesting to know how this kind of thing works in conjunction with the spirit of everything just being an innocent donation and not a purchase for some product.

Sure seems like a purchase of a product with value to me. :thunkher:

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

Scruffpuff posted:

It's not nonsense. Let me show you:


We begin with high-level mathematics, much like the equations leveraged by CERN laboratories:




Here we see a rough outline of how server meshing will work.




The mathematical basis for the physics-based flight model:




Proof that proper scientific research on space was involved in the project from the beginning:




Tier-0 implentation of quanta:




A molecular closeup of a pixel changed from green to blue:




Server meshing, advanced:




Some brainstorming for possible types of missions:




And, finally, we see an image with his plans for dinner that evening:



I can definitely see the value there and so the critical thinking that went into making that, likely 20 whole minutes before it was shot on video.

Scruffpuff
Dec 23, 2015

Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

4th Stimpire Queen posted:

Now do this one Scruffpuff!



I think I'll skip out on that. The entire thing is bullshit - I've seen more convincing whiteboard backgrounds in Hollywood films. How that's fooling anyone is beyond me.

4th Stimpire Queen
May 4, 2022

Contemplate with nice thoughts and utterances.

Scruffpuff posted:

How that's fooling anyone is beyond me.

Copium causes impaired judgment even at low doses.

Only Kindness
Oct 12, 2016

Scruffpuff posted:

I think I'll skip out on that. The entire thing is bullshit - I've seen more convincing whiteboard backgrounds in Hollywood films. How that's fooling anyone is beyond me.

Agree - given that picture, in a vacuum and knowing nothing else I would sympathise with his schizophrenia and dementia, but since it's not real and just a grift for idiots, I won't.

Popete
Oct 6, 2009

This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs

Grimey Drawer
Bored Ape Yacht Club the NFT grift from 2021 which has raised over $450 million in funding released a game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR9N0QXiPLo

Granted it's not a good game but considering they started as a literal JPEG seller and they still managed to put out a game before CIG.

stingtwo
Nov 16, 2012

MarcusSA posted:

I Watch his channel regularly but I’m not even sure he could do this poo poo show justice.

Could anyone? even those here can't scratch the surface of the sheer amount of incompentence that has and keeps happening at CIG from both at the game and company level. His wha happen series could be 20 parts and still only get the 1st year of development covered.

Theotus
Nov 8, 2014

Had a friend tell me he was stoked for Star Citizen to come out eventually out of nowhere. Just told him to play X4.

4th Stimpire Queen
May 4, 2022

Contemplate with nice thoughts and utterances.
Star Citizen, being the first AAAA space opera MMO, totally needs stomach ache and puking.

commando in tophat
Sep 5, 2019

4th Stimpire Queen posted:

Star Citizen, being the first AAAA space opera MMO, totally needs stomach ache and puking.



To be fair, GTA san andreas had puking after eating too much, and you would also get fat from eating. Not that it added anything to game, but it is just something that existed in 2004 game (I also assume that install size was about size of star citizen toothpaste textures), that won't ever be in best darn space life simulator.

4th Stimpire Queen
May 4, 2022

Contemplate with nice thoughts and utterances.

commando in tophat posted:

To be fair, GTA san andreas had puking after eating too much

Not sure how many citizens played it tho, due to being forced to play as a *gasp* black person.

arsenicCatnip
Dec 23, 2022

:33< i KNOW, i was speaking metafurrikitty :33



ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS FINISH THE drat GAME CJIG

GaylordButts
Feb 19, 2009

Bored Ape Yacht Club Dookie Dash posted:



When is this critical feature coming to SC?

Cutedge
Mar 13, 2006

How can we lose so much more than we had before

4th Stimpire Queen posted:

The Star Citizen FPS experience

Trigger warnings: amazing AI, lifelike NPCs, smart use of cover.

https://v.redd.it/6atqnkikcfda1/DASH_1080.mp4

I shouldn't be surprised that they couldn't even meet the bar set by Elite Dangerous' space legs but seeing it in action is pretty lol

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable

4th Stimpire Queen posted:

Star Citizen, being the first AAAA space opera MMO, totally needs stomach ache and puking.



Better get Tony Z to write up a wall mural explaining how hunger works.

Or maybe Erin could help here. He seems to be an expert in food consumption mechanics.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable
I don't know why but I guess I done screwed up my YouTube again has some star citizen crap in it occasionally.

However I did get to laughing at one video of what looked like an ad for some group who wants to be doctors or something.

They do like emergency doctor healing or something, and rescue. But the whole thing was them flying in and shooting up a bunch of guys and then kneeling over some dude and asking if they can stand up multiple times. Then they blasted their way out again.

I can just imagine doctors shooting a place up to help one person, then killing everyone on their way out again. The space future of healthcare is pretty grimdark.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

The Titanic posted:

I don't know why but I guess I done screwed up my YouTube again has some star citizen crap in it occasionally.

However I did get to laughing at one video of what looked like an ad for some group who wants to be doctors or something.

They do like emergency doctor healing or something, and rescue. But the whole thing was them flying in and shooting up a bunch of guys and then kneeling over some dude and asking if they can stand up multiple times. Then they blasted their way out again.

I can just imagine doctors shooting a place up to help one person, then killing everyone on their way out again. The space future of healthcare is pretty grimdark.

That's just Crashcart and DocWagon from Shadowrun. I'm sure there was some equivalent in some Cyberpunk splatbook too, but CP was not my scene back in the day. Standard Star Citizen creativity and innovation, really: take an idea from 1991 and make nothing with it.



…unless you mean this medical service, of course:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwjj4e1VRfc

Tippis fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jan 24, 2023

Midnight Voyager
Jul 2, 2008

Lipstick Apathy

Tippis posted:

I'm sure there was some equivalent in some Cyberpunk splatbook too

Trauma Team!

There's a very early mission in Cyberpunk 2077 and one of the options in it is to sneak in to the person you're looking for, clear the thing blocking their Trauma Team signal from working, and then the team comes in blasting to save them. That video is almost certainly mirroring that mission.

Kavros
May 18, 2011

sleep sleep sleep
fly fly post post
sleep sleep sleep

Fidelitious posted:

This is exactly the thing I've mentioned before.
Some rando probably theorized this at some point on the forums in a desperate attempt to excuse the horrible "AI". It gets jumbled through several iterations of people remembering that they've read this somewhere, and eventually it's word of god that the AI isn't actually dogshit, it just ACTS like dogshit for very good and very technical reasons.

A quick glance through some reddit threads reveals people repeating this talking point over and over but no one seems able to provide a source from CIG very clearly saying that the AI is bad because it's on "low priority server threads".

I've been on servers with very good tickrates and absolutely no server performance issues to dump AI into a "dogshit" secondary concern. All this changes is that the enemies will begin near instantly firing through uncovered line of sight with relentless accuracy, and because players take lethal damage in seconds even with the heaviest armor, it's an instant kill for the unaware. Fortunately, they're still easy to beat at peak server performance, because their very simplistic threat response and pathing makes it so that you can easily corral them into deathtraps or kill them during their stale animations like crouching behind a wall.

So the truth of the matter is that the artificial intelligence / battle behavior for ground enemies is absolute dogshit even outside of the issues of the game's wretched server performance concerns. It's just that when you add the server concerns, the enemy AI is typically unable to respond to you unless you give them 4.5+ seconds of unimpeded and unadjusted line of sight.

I could hop onto a server right now and take out an entire bunker unarmed and naked. The largest threat to my safety is if I accidentally overlap a melee takedown attack on an already fallen enemy, because this tends to lock up your character and leave you immobile and defenseless. Outside of that...

Kavros
May 18, 2011

sleep sleep sleep
fly fly post post
sleep sleep sleep
On a related note, the minimal change to damage survivability that armor provides makes it so that heavy armor is usually uselessly stupid outside of some fringe cases of needing temperature resistance.

Medium armor used to justify itself by being the minimum tier that could hold two equipped weapons, but now a light armor core with a backpack holds two weapons, so ... just slap that on and you're good.

The weapons themselves have an amazing amount of terrible balance conditions present, as well.

Much of this game is so underbuilt in terms of core gameplay that it continues to impress.

Kosumo
Apr 9, 2016

So underbuilt in terms of it's core gameplay OR as a pre-alpha, miles ahead of many finished AAA games ..... Have you seen how much money it has raised? How can it not be amazing!*







* Chris Roberts

4th Stimpire Queen
May 4, 2022

Contemplate with nice thoughts and utterances.
PEScat knows "how to gauge the culture of a workplace very quickly,"
Jared explained to him how "Chris prioritises what is right for the backers, rather than the company". :yarg:

quote:




I have met the team members on many occasions and toured their F42 UK office in 2016. The one theme they keep bringing up is that working for Cloud Imperium is not like working for the other companies they have had experience with. They feel encouraged to take novel approaches or to approach management with new ideas, the addition of race tracks to the PU for example. More than anyhting they stress how different it feels to have such a close relationship with the community, they feel they are making the community's game rather than the company's game.

At the last BarCitizen in Manchester I asked Jared Huckaby some pointed questions and he gave honest answers.
With reference to your generalised post regarding work culture he did say that some hires to Cloud Imperium didn't fit in and didn't understand the different ethos that Cloud Imperium takes toward it's commitment to the community. He talked about how they bring ideas and attitudes from other game development companies. He gave a specific example which I won't talk about here but in that example he was explaining how Chris prioritises what is right for the backers, rather than the company. Had that person worked at another company what he wanted to do would have been the norm, but it was not for this project. He told me that person no longer works at Cloud Imperium.

The final question I asked him was "Did we do a good thing or has it become too big and corporate now?" He seemed shocked and said "No!", it's the same as it always was, a dedicated team aiming to make the best drat game for the community and anyone at any level can raise issues directly with the management and they'll be listened to. There are hundreds of them working there now and the idea that inherent problems wouldn't be leaked out seems fairly preposterous to me given how much we interact with them in person and how easy it is to go anonymous online.

In my working life i have had the opportunity to work for many companies and I learned how to gauge the culture of a workplace very quickly, there are obvious signs of stress in the work place - none of which I saw at F42 UK.


PEScat continues his work to uncover the secret cabal.

quote:




There are those who years ago made accounts just to spread FUD and this is the typical M.O. Old account, low post count and 'new player experience'. Buy the game and refund - no loss just inconvenience to CIG. We see it many times here and on Reddit. Totally deniable of course and what 'toxic' people we are for pointing it out.

They keep bringing up the argument that CIG isn't as successful as people think because of a few whales making dupe accounts, there is no evidence for it but it makes sense they would assume it to be true because that is what they decided to do back in 2015 / 2016 so that one negative dissenting voice could become 20, 30 or more. They flood the forum front page with FUD and bait threads on weekends and holidays / events to give newcomers a appearance of a bad experience in these forums and the game generally. These guys may not be on-the-up-and-up honest and likeable, but they aren't stupid. For some they are veterans of such activity in other games like EvE Online and RUST, they've been doing it for years.

Popete
Oct 6, 2009

This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs

Grimey Drawer
This dude spent like an hour touring one of CIGs office and it turned him into a true believer because he talked to a couple of devs at their place of work and they said it was good there.

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Only Kindness
Oct 12, 2016
GOD drat that's some stunningly good content, thanks for finding it. Really dining out on made-up interactions on that awkward tour - that they have to pay for, right? Talk about more money than sense. I'd pay money to stay away from these numpties.

quote:

I asked Jared Huckaby some pointed questions and he gave honest answers

How does he know they were honest answers? Also what sort of incompetent is this Huckaby person that he's basically leaking to this zero-charisma twerp? It's unprofessional as gently caress, if it even happened.

Also none of that seems to track with every glassdoor we've seen.

So somebody's lying, somewhere. (:trustme:)

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