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Milo and POTUS posted:One of these examples works a lot better than the other its like "the cow the fence i threw over" means you threw the cow over the fence, but "the fence the cow i threw over" means you threw the fence over the cow vestigial word order or something
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Jan 21, 2023 05:47
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for the post above which the page sniped i apologize
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Jan 21, 2023 05:49
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And "twice beer side by each" means two beers sitting next to each other. It makes its own sense once you get used to it. It's just not standard English syntax.
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Jan 21, 2023 06:09
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Carthag Tuek posted:its like "the cow the fence i threw over" means you threw the cow over the fence, but "the fence the cow i threw over" means you threw the fence over the cow No, that one I understood
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Jan 21, 2023 06:51
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I mean I understand all of this because Dutch has similar structures till this day. "twice beer side by each" could even have been a literal translation of "twee bier naast elkaar" if it was introduced by Dutch settlers. In case anyone's really interested in this, I recently ran into a free-to-download book about how Dutch influenced American English. Cookies, Coleslaw, and Stoops - The Influence of Dutch on the North American Languages I enjoyed scrolling through it, it has a lot of fun examples. Here's also the Dutch version of the book: Yankees, cookies en dollars - De invloed van het Nederlands op de Noord-Amerikaanse talen
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Jan 21, 2023 08:56
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Milo and POTUS posted:No, that one I understood oh well yeah like the others say, two beers each just with the exact words translated instead of the idiom by itsef Carthag Tuek has a new favorite as of 11:02 on Jan 21, 2023 |
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Jan 21, 2023 10:59
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Deteriorata posted:And "side by each" means two beers sitting next to each other. I hear this more in  from francophone speakers who are speaking English. My old foreman used to be great for a weird mix of phrases like that. More OSHA thread than history, but he once yelled down “ATTENTION!” which is more of a warning in his mind, but I thought he wanted me to look up at him. Got a hammer that was falling off the scaffold hit the beak of the hard hat from that misunderstanding.We later discussed that with a French accent, attention means “look out”, and not that he wants me to pay attention to him.
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Jan 21, 2023 12:20
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Carthag Tuek posted:no worries im also drunk so here goes: Classic Dane
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Jan 21, 2023 13:32
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Sockington posted:We later discussed that with a French accent, attention means “look out”, and not that he wants me to pay attention to him. When automatic railway level crossings (with barriers and warning lights either operated entirely automatically by the approach of a train or by a remote controller responsible for multiple crossings on a stretch of track) were introduced in the UK in the 1960s, they ran into a linguistic quirk: The original signage told car drivers "Do Not Cross While Lights Flash". In parts of northern England, particularly Yorkshire, some drivers took the sign to mean the complete opposite of the intention. In those areas, 'while' primarily meant 'until'. This was due to a dialect difference between process and outcome - many of us will still be able to parse a sentence like "wait while I do this" as meaning "wait until I have done this". It's also due to the looser usage of while vs. whilst in the 20th century - in a lot of English regional dialects the former meant 'up to the point when...' and the latter 'during the time when...', so a Yorkshireman in the 19th century could ask you to "watch my beer whilst I'm gone" or "watch my beer while I come back." That distinction was much looser in 20th century England but had essentially disappeared in 'formal' English, London and the south, as known by the people who worded the signs while (hehe...) still lingering in the north, as it still does to this day. I don't believe any accidents were actually caused by the unintentionally misleading original signage, but it was brought up when they were being installed and the wording changed to "Stop When Lights Show"
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Jan 21, 2023 13:57
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FreudianSlippers posted:Classic Dane en dårlig øl
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Jan 21, 2023 14:05
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BalloonFish posted:When automatic railway level crossings (with barriers and warning lights either operated entirely automatically by the approach of a train or by a remote controller responsible for multiple crossings on a stretch of track) were introduced in the UK in the 1960s, they ran into a linguistic quirk: I feel like people don't talk enough about how "whilst" is still a word in common usage in the UK. It's so dead in the US that I think most of us think we've misheard when we hear an english person use it in speech.
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Jan 21, 2023 16:10
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Sockington posted:I hear this more in If you looked up it would have hit you in the face. It pays to not know french
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Jan 21, 2023 17:29
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I think the poster ‘Whilst Farting I’ is single-handedly keeping it alive.
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Jan 21, 2023 17:30
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throw me down the stairs my hat
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Jan 23, 2023 03:57
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The joists the bathtub I cut beneath.
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Jan 23, 2023 04:21
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Here is what a Swede writing in 1732 had to say about why he felt that the Swedish language was better than all the others. "Jag wet intet hvad rasande Dårskap hindrar oss derifrån: Språket är i sig sielf intet hårt som Tyskan, intet hopplockat som Engelskan, intet upblåst som Spanskan, intet wekligt som Italienskan, intet obändigt som Polskan, intet wildt som Ryskan, intet bräkande som Danskan etc." My translation "I don't know what raging madness is stopping us from [treating Swedish with care/respect]: The language itself is not harsh like German, not mixed/gathered* like English, not pompous like Spanish, not wimpy like Italian, not unbendable like Polish, not wild like Russian, not bleating like Danish etc." *The Swedish word is a combination of "hop" which is a stack or a pile, and "plocka" which means to pick or to gather. Picked-and-piled? Mixed-and-matched? Some of those descriptions were surely influenced by the time period, like the Spanish being seen as pompous or Russian as wild. I don't know enough about Polish to have an opinion on whether it is especially unbendable or not. But the rest work just as well today as back then I'd say. As a 50/50 Swede/Norwegian I am of course happy to see that someone likened Danish to bleating 300 years ago, that almost goes without saying. https://litteraturbanken.se/f%C3%B6rfattare/DalinOvon/titlar/ThenSw%C3%A4nskaArgus1/sida/345/faksimil (last paragraph)
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Jan 23, 2023 13:47
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Reminds me of Søren Poulsen Gotlænder Judichær (1599–1668), who said: "Huo sit eget Modersmaal icke høyt acter, hand burde med raadne Eg aff hans Fædreneland ad udjagis, oc aldrig burde saa værdig at actis, at hand en Dansk skulde kaldis." That is, "he who does not highly regard his own mother tongue, he should be chased from his fatherland with rotten eggs, and never be held in such esteem that he could be called Danish." He also said that a dreng (boy) should not be called a gutt in Norwegian, a påg in Scanian (cognate to Swedish pojke), a sorck in Gotlandic, a pois in Öselian (as Scanian), a barn in Jutish (cf. Scots bairn), etc, as it comes across entirely unclean in Danish (det vilde falde heel Ureent i vort Spraag). Which all probably has something to do with Denmark losing Gotland (where he was born) and Ösel (Saaremaa) in 1645 and Scania in 1658.
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Jan 23, 2023 14:24
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Carthag Tuek posted:Reminds me of Søren Poulsen Gotlænder Judichær (1599–1668), who said: "Huo sit eget Modersmaal icke høyt acter, hand burde med raadne Eg aff hans Fædreneland ad udjagis, oc aldrig burde saa værdig at actis, at hand en Dansk skulde kaldis." That is, "he who does not highly regard his own mother tongue, he should be chased from his fatherland with rotten eggs, and never be held in such esteem that he could be called Danish." FIxed it 
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Jan 23, 2023 15:33
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3D Megadoodoo posted:FIxed it *throws rotten eggs at u* Anyway the Gotlandic sork seems to be a word for lemmings and voles which was also used for small boys https://www.saob.se/artikel/?unik=S_08875-0102.7FLt&pz=3 (3rd sense)
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Jan 23, 2023 20:51
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Carthag Tuek posted:*throws rotten eggs at u* Ah, Swedish cuisine 
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Jan 23, 2023 21:09
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Offler posted:Here is what a Swede writing in 1732 had to say about why he felt that the Swedish language was better than all the others. I like that he let english off very easily, thank you swede
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Jan 23, 2023 21:21
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I would probably translate that word as "hodge-podge" and would not be surprised to learn it has similar etymology.
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Jan 23, 2023 21:38
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Carthag Tuek posted:*throws rotten eggs at u* Yeah, in regular Swedish a "sork" is definitely a small rodent and not a word for boy, so that word stood out to me. Or stood out even more, as it was also the only word on your list that was wholly unfamiliar to me. I'd never heard of "pois" either, but that at least looks about as close to "pojke" as the local variant "pôjk" does to me. Also, being called a "dreng" during vacations in Denmark as a kid always felt slightly off, even when I knew what it meant. I'm not a farmhand, damnit! For non-Scandinavians reading: "dräng" in Swedish means something like farmhand. For some reason I want to say that it was mainly used for young and/or inexperienced farmhands that were only paid in food and lodging, but this could all just be in my head.
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Jan 23, 2023 21:38
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Offler posted:Yeah, in regular Swedish a "sork" is definitely a small rodent and not a word for boy, so that word stood out to me. Or stood out even more, as it was also the only word on your list that was wholly unfamiliar to me. I'd never heard of "pois" either, but that at least looks about as close to "pojke" as the local variant "pôjk" does to me. You'll see "dreng" used as "male worker" in older Danish as well, but it'll generally be clear from context which sense is intended (I suppose like "boy" in English).
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Jan 23, 2023 22:06
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Drengr in the Old Norse just means a man, especially one who is brave and gallant. It's even used to describe a woman once in the Sagas specifically in the Saga of Burnt Njáll where the titular Njálls wife Bergþóra is said to be "kvenskörungur mikill og drengur góður og nokkuð skaphörð" or "A strong woman, a good drengr, and somewhat hard-tempered." In modern Icelandic drengur is slightly antiquated but still used word for boy with strákur being the more common one. Variations,(some very antiquated and/or regional) include: -Gutti -Snáði -Polli -Piltur -Sveinn -Peyi -Hnokki -Patti -Kútur -Skelmir -Pjakkur
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Jan 23, 2023 22:07
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Also for added context, non-nordics might want to look up Swedification. Due to ethnic cleansing policies, the population of Scania was reduced by 25% in the decades after the takeover. Barbarians! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedification Carthag Tuek has a new favorite as of 22:52 on Jan 23, 2023 |
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Jan 23, 2023 22:49
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Carthag Tuek posted:Also for added context, non-nordics might want to look up Swedification. Due to ethnic cleansing policies, the population of Scania was reduced by 25% in the decades after the takeover. Barbarians! That was just the Sweden player knowing that nationalism was coming up in a century or two so he'd better hurry up and rip off that band-aid now or risk getting stuck with a sizeable minority who'd feel that they lived in the wrong country. You know, basic min-maxing during a playthrough. For real though, when nationalism did become important in the 19th century, enough Swedes apparently thought that Denmark could be tricked into giving up their sovereignty and join the new country of Scandinavia if we just promised that it wouldn't simply become Greater Sweden. Even though Sweden alone had half of Scandinavia's population, and also our king ruled over Norway in a personal union at the time. So, how to convince those suspicious Danes that they don't need to worry about any of that and just trust us? Simple - show them that we'd be above that kind of petty Sweden-first thinking by pre-adapting a national anthem about the entire Nordic region! Surprisingly, Denmark didn't fall for this clever plan, and Sweden is still stuck with a national anthem that isn't even about our country. People have tried to make the song more appropriate as an anthem by changing its name from "Hyllning till Norden" (ode to the Nordic countries) to "Du gamla, du fria" (The old, the free), and by penning a third verse about Sweden, but we all know that the new title is just the first lines of the song and no one remembers enough of the song to get to the third verse. I've been told that Sweden at least gets name checked in the Polish anthem, but I'm guessing they're not exactly singing about how great we are.
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Jan 23, 2023 23:35
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Carthag Tuek posted:Also for added context, non-nordics might want to look up Swedification. Due to ethnic cleansing policies, the population of Scania was reduced by 25% in the decades after the takeover. Barbarians! I'm Swedish and I did not know this! Dammit we basically had residential schools for our indigenous population like Canada did. Eugh.
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Jan 24, 2023 06:39
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Philippe posted:I'm Swedish and I did not know this! Dammit we basically had residential schools for our indigenous population like Canada did. Eugh. Because Sweden considered the whole formerly Danish territory full of their arch enemies (Danes) they also did very harsh "counter insurgency" to quell any chance of armed resistance to their new rule. This included a lot of wanton killings including a whole bunch of stakings of the Vlad Tepes kind.
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Jan 24, 2023 08:41
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Philippe posted:I'm Swedish and I did not know this! Dammit we basically had residential schools for our indigenous population like Canada did. Eugh. Yeah, it wasn't just the Sami who were hosed over by the Swedes. For more fun, read on the Swedish deluges and the colony of St. Bartolmey.
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Jan 24, 2023 08:51
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Offler posted:Here is what a Swede writing in 1732 had to say about why he felt that the Swedish language was better than all the others. If only this guy had been alive in modern times so that he could see his entire hypothesis get destroyed by the Swedish Chef.
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Jan 24, 2023 09:36
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exquisite tea posted:If only this guy had been alive in modern times so that he could see his entire hypothesis get destroyed by the Swedish Chef. Who do you think made Kamelåså?
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Jan 24, 2023 10:27
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Ichabod Sexbeast posted:Who do you think made Kamelåså?  It's a Norwegian documentary about Danes
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Jan 24, 2023 13:36
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exquisite tea posted:If only this guy had been alive in modern times so that he could see his entire hypothesis get destroyed by the Swedish Chef. The first time I heard about the Swedish chef was when I was 17 and studied in an American high school for a year. I found him strange then, and I still do. Not because of the way he speaks, I'm obviously not the right person to say if he accurately portrays how Swedish sounds to people who don't speak the language. No, what I find strange is the idea of a Swedish chef working in America in the 70s. What kind of food was he serving back then? I'm sure there are hundreds of Swedish hipster chefs serving Reindeer meatballs infused with lingonberries or whatever in New York or L.A. today, but why would you advertise that you had a Swedish chef back in the 70s? Wasn't 90% of our food back then just variants of meat, potatoes and brown sauce? Maybe I'm showing my uncultured rear end here, but I don't think chefs made traditional Swedish food back then. Now, I grew up in a small town with zero restaurants, but even when we travelled to the regional big city the only restaurants we ever ate at back in the 80s were ones that cooked food in large batches and your only choice was between the fish option or the meat option. Good luck finding even a vegetarian option in any of these places outside of Stockholm in the 70s. I wanna say that the vast majority of restaurants here back in the 70s were this kind, so no need for chefs there. But, based on nothing but a gut feeling, I'll confidently state that the chefs working in fancy hotel restaurants back in the 70s didn't make traditional Swedish food, but rather did their best attempt at French or possibly Italian restaurant food. They'd either have been to culinary school in France themselves, or more likely they'd worked for a guy who'd worked for a guy who did. So what's the deal with the Swedish chef? Am I overthinking this? Is it just a chef that happens to be Swedish, and not a chef serving Swedish food?
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Jan 24, 2023 15:54
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I think there was a (possibly very brief) cultural moment in the 70s US and UK where Swedish cuisine was the trend. Whether this had even a passing resemblance to what was being cooked and eaten in Sweden is another matter entirely. fakeedit: Wikipedia posted:Some claim that the Swedish Chef was inspired by a real-life chef. One example is Friedman Paul Erhardt, a German American television chef known as "Chef Tell".[6][7] Another example is Lars "Kuprik" Bäckman, a real-life Swedish chef. Bäckman claims that his rather unsuccessful appearance on an early edition of Good Morning America caught the attention of Jim Henson, who later bought the rights to the recording and created Bäckman's Muppet alter ego. Bäckman's Dalecarlian accent would explain the chef's strange pronunciation. Muppet writer Jerry Juhl denied Bäckman's story and insisted the character had no real-world counterpart: "I wrote, rehearsed, rewrote, brainstormed, and giggled uncontrollably a thousand times with Jim Henson as we dealt with the Swedish Chef, and I never once heard him mention an actual Swedish chef..."[8]
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Jan 24, 2023 16:07
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Offler posted:The first time I heard about the Swedish chef was when I was 17 and studied in an American high school for a year. I found him strange then, and I still do. Not because of the way he speaks, I'm obviously not the right person to say if he accurately portrays how Swedish sounds to people who don't speak the language. No, what I find strange is the idea of a Swedish chef working in America in the 70s. What kind of food was he serving back then? I'm sure there are hundreds of Swedish hipster chefs serving Reindeer meatballs infused with lingonberries or whatever in New York or L.A. today, but why would you advertise that you had a Swedish chef back in the 70s? Wasn't 90% of our food back then just variants of meat, potatoes and brown sauce? There's nothing in the fiction pointing to the Swedish chef being a Swedish chef outside of Sweden. Or a chef. Remember he's an act, in the show. The fact that he's the same on and off stage is irrelevant.
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Jan 24, 2023 16:44
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Offler posted:The first time I heard about the Swedish chef was when I was 17 and studied in an American high school for a year. I found him strange then, and I still do. Not because of the way he speaks, I'm obviously not the right person to say if he accurately portrays how Swedish sounds to people who don't speak the language. No, what I find strange is the idea of a Swedish chef working in America in the 70s. What kind of food was he serving back then? I'm sure there are hundreds of Swedish hipster chefs serving Reindeer meatballs infused with lingonberries or whatever in New York or L.A. today, but why would you advertise that you had a Swedish chef back in the 70s? Wasn't 90% of our food back then just variants of meat, potatoes and brown sauce? He thought of a chef character, then picked the nationality that allowed for the funniest accent without being racist.
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Jan 24, 2023 16:48
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At no point is there any suggestion that the Swedish Chef is actually preparing Swedish cuisine. The dishes he attempted were generally very basic and mostly chosen for the potential to have something explode, fight back, flail frantically, and incorporate puns or words that sound funny in fake Swedish.
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Jan 24, 2023 16:55
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I have also heard that in Swedish localization of The Muppet Show, he is known as The Norwegian Chef
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Jan 24, 2023 16:58
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Offler posted:The first time I heard about the Swedish chef was when I was 17 and studied in an American high school for a year. I found him strange then, and I still do. Not because of the way he speaks, I'm obviously not the right person to say if he accurately portrays how Swedish sounds to people who don't speak the language. No, what I find strange is the idea of a Swedish chef working in America in the 70s. What kind of food was he serving back then? I'm sure there are hundreds of Swedish hipster chefs serving Reindeer meatballs infused with lingonberries or whatever in New York or L.A. today, but why would you advertise that you had a Swedish chef back in the 70s? Wasn't 90% of our food back then just variants of meat, potatoes and brown sauce? Swedish Meatballs was an extremely popular dish in the 60s-70s in the US and was probably 50% of the things Americans knew about Sweden (the other being Ingmar Bergman), until supplanted by ABBA and the Swedish Bikini Team. plainswalker75 has a new favorite as of 17:41 on Jan 24, 2023 |
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Jan 24, 2023 17:36
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