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The big thing about investigator is you need a GM willing to be creative/cooperative and occasionally give you leads on the boss or upcoming named mooks. Moreso than other classes there is a narrative hook that a good GM really contributes to. They are top tier boss killers because they *should* be getting a free pre-roll against the boss before deciding what to hit.
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Jan 26, 2023 17:23
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The name "thaumaturge" is misleading, because the touchstone for the class is very clearly Van Helsing
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Jan 26, 2023 17:34
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queeb posted:Ok, starting the beginner box this weekend, and then doing the troubles in otari/abomination vaults combination. Anyone have any suggestions on ways to splice them together nicely? What I was doing, which worked wonderfully until my computer died, was slow xp progression (I think it was 1200 per level) and the following order: Beginner Box Old Fishery First level of the vaults through the ghostlight cemetery fight. Having already already saved the town from a dragon it felt more natural for the party to be approached about the lighthouse glowing at night. I made the fey more challenging by engaging in a tactical retreat / ambush whenever possible. It ended up being two big fights instead of a bunch of little ones. Base this on party size and level. Post cemetery fight do the next Otari adventure. There isn't an immediate threat with the vaults and downtime is expected. After dealing with the lumber conflict start up abomination vaults again. This is where I lost everything but sprinkle in otari stuff whenever characters need a break and are level appropriate.
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Jan 26, 2023 17:44
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Syrinxx posted:AV starts at level 1 I think, so I'm not sure how you'll merge those since the party should be level 5 at the end of Troubles GM can plot dump Book 1 AV and start at book 2, go into book 1 overleveled and blitz through it, etc
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Jan 26, 2023 17:46
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Trouble in Otari wasn't that interesting tbh, just do AV.
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Jan 26, 2023 17:48
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Hi, absolutely new to P2e and might be joining a game soon. I had two questions about some of the class variety: 1) Yes, but you need GM buyin to let you declare that you are "following a lead"/working a case that feeds in to your current adventures to let you devise strategems without an action tax - not neccesarily all the time, but often enough for it to not feel bad. This shouldn't be too hard to do for most campaigns. 2) They're entirely different things. The Witch is a spelcaster whose flavor is close to a D&D Warlock, but whose mechanics are not; you have a Patron who grants you your power, and can pick your spellcasting list like a Sorcerer, but are a prepared caster, like a Wizard or Cleric. In general, the Witch's mechanics are built around having the best familiar of any spellcaster, and being able to cast lots of buffs and debuffs and sustain multiple spells simultaneously. The Thaumaturge is a martial character, not a spellcaster, whose whole gimmick is identifying enemies weaknesses, and then being able to automatically have some way on hand to hit that weakness. If the enemy doesn't have a weakness, you get to Make Up Some Bullshit, and It Just Works. I am currently playing a thaumaturge that uses a gun and a while back we had a fight against a bunch of Gnolls who don't have a weakness, but gnolls are basically hyenas and hyenas are basically dogs and dogs can't eat chocolate, so I simply declared that I was firing chocolate bullets at the gnolls and the gnolls were weak to my chocolate damage and there was nothing the poor gm could do about it. (The official example is less silly - they suggest that, when battling a slaver, you might hold up a piece of a broken chain to rebuke them for extra damage. Yawn.) Beyond that, the rest of the Thaumaturge's niche is in being really good at recall knowledge checks, using lots of magic items and scrolls and talismans, and if they want, they can get a familiar of almost Witch level flexibility. While both classes have a similar vibe they come by it very differently and don't play similarly at all. They complement each other in a party pretty well though!
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Jan 26, 2023 17:48
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Megazver posted:Trouble in Otari wasn't that interesting tbh, just do AV. Yeah I'm playing through it (DMing) right now. It's fine, it's perfectly all right. It's just pretty basic, some baddies here, some fights there and two small dungeons. It's neat, but it feels very side-questy. Not a big loss if you skip it and just focus on Abomination Vaults instead.
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Jan 26, 2023 18:19
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I did the beginner box and then planned to weave AV and Trouble in Otari together, but in the end I think I cut some fights from the early AV floors, ran maybe 2 of the TiO scenes and then just ran AV because it's much better.
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Jan 26, 2023 19:20
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M. Night Skymall posted:I did the beginner box and then planned to weave AV and Trouble in Otari together, but in the end I think I cut some fights from the early AV floors, ran maybe 2 of the TiO scenes and then just ran AV because it's much better. Yeah I think the TiO stuff is good if you want to give your players a break from the stuff happening in AV. AV is definitely better written as far as adventure paths go, but TiO is good from a "first adventure" standpoint.
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Jan 26, 2023 19:25
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I like combining them because it lets you really flesh out the different town personalities. Having non-vault problems also opens up the local setting a bit more so it doesn't just feel like a town attached to a dungeon. Abomination Vaults is better but I think combining them, at least early on, helps give a sense of place. Edit: We are going to restart abomination vaults after finishing Alkenstar and upon hearing we aren't doing TiO my players are already sad they won't meet the tiny friendly coatl. KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jan 26, 2023 |
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Jan 26, 2023 20:30
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My group has done a few of the TiO quests, I believe. They haven't been crazy interesting or challenging but they are a nice break from delving the dungeon and makes the town feel a little bigger.
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Jan 26, 2023 20:32
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I recently picked up the Beginner's Box on Foundry for some friends. How is Pirate King's Plunder, if I wanted to give it a quick run-through to both get more familiar with Foundry and the system as a whole.
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Jan 27, 2023 06:47
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Pirate Kings plunder is basically a CYOA you do solo from memory. So you can just try it yourself.
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Jan 27, 2023 08:47
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Is precision damage doubled on crits? e.g. a Hunter's Edge: Precision Ranger - would you double the d8 damage on a crit?
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Jan 28, 2023 18:45
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The Slack Lagoon posted:Is precision damage doubled on crits? e.g. a Hunter's Edge: Precision Ranger - would you double the d8 damage on a crit? Yes. The only things you never double are things that only get added on a crit, like from a deadly weapon.
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Jan 28, 2023 18:53
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The Slack Lagoon posted:Is precision damage doubled on crits? e.g. a Hunter's Edge: Precision Ranger - would you double the d8 damage on a crit? Yes, precision damage does multiply on a critical hit, but this is a specific change from 1e Pathfinder, so you might get people who have the old way stuck in their heads.
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Jan 28, 2023 18:59
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I've been a little unclear on this, is the Thaumaturge kind of an analogue to the 1e Occultist or are they too different to say that?
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Jan 28, 2023 19:45
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The Golux posted:I've been a little unclear on this, is the Thaumaturge kind of an analogue to the 1e Occultist or are they too different to say that? Similar thematics but mechanically, no, nothing like it. If anything, the closest analogue mechanically might be the Inquisitor - exploit vulnerability is a squint and look sideways equivalent to judgment in terms of being able to juice your damage, and it’s a charisma centric skill monkey for the most part otherwise.
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Jan 28, 2023 20:02
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What is everyone's favorite character sheet/builder online? I know of pathbuilder2e and wanderer's guide and I tend to lean towards wanderer's guide as it feels a bit more new player friendly, but curious to see what other people are using. Edit: after using pathbulder2e more I think that is it actually. Kwolok fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jan 28, 2023 |
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Jan 28, 2023 21:17
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Kwolok posted:What is everyone's favorite character sheet/builder online? I know of pathbuilder2e and wanderer's guide and I tend to lean towards wanderer's guide as it feels a bit more new player friendly, but curious to see what other people are using. Hero Lab or Foundry for keeping my actual characters, pathbuilder for quick builds and testing things
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Jan 28, 2023 21:33
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I used Wanderer's Guide for a while, back when Pathbuilder was android only and it was fine. Sometimes I'd have to refresh a few times to get it to work. Once Pathbuilder got web browser functionality I haven't gone back. I don't use either at the table though, we play in Foundry and I use all of that functionality for active management. I use Pathbuilder for build planning.
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Jan 28, 2023 21:37
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aon and a spreadsheet
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Jan 28, 2023 21:48
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I like using pathbuilder but I use the easy sheet and aeon a lot
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Jan 28, 2023 22:26
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Toshimo posted:Yes. The only things you never double are things that only get added on a crit, like from a deadly weapon. Small niche correction to this, splash damage from alchemical bombs and such also never doubles on a critical hit. To my knowledge that's the only thing other than on-crit bonus damage that breaks that rule, as even persistent damage gets doubled for its entire duration if the hit that inflicts it was a critical.
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Jan 28, 2023 22:47
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Pathbuilder is great; it's what my whole table uses. My only two complaints are:
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Jan 28, 2023 22:59
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Red Metal posted:aon and a spreadsheet jesus christ
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Jan 28, 2023 23:52
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So we just finished nearly the whole beginner box, about halfway through the 2nd level where you hit level 2 and for the most part everyone is loving it. our fighter and barbarian from 5e are playing a swashbuckler and barbarian here and just totally in love with all the combat options. Our usual spellcaster is playing an animal order druid, and i dont think shes really enjoying the spellcasting in this. only having 2 spells to prepare at level 1 and getting 1 cast of each without much flexibility and thats it is bumming her out, where in 5e she could have like 5+ spells prepared and cast 2 times but any of the spells prepared. Shes going to give it a shot though. likes having her raptor to command and run around, and ride at level 4
queeb fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jan 29, 2023 |
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Jan 29, 2023 05:15
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queeb posted:So we just finished nearly the whole beginner box, about halfway through the 2nd level where you hit level 2 and for the most part everyone is loving it. our fighter and barbarian from 5e are playing a swashbuckler and barbarian here and just totally in love with all the combat options. Our usual spellcaster is playing an animal order druid, and i dont think shes really enjoying the spellcasting in this. only having 2 spells to prepare at level 1 and getting 1 cast of each without much flexibility and thats it is bumming her out, where in 5e she could have like 5+ spells prepared and cast 2 times but any of the spells prepared. Shes going to give it a shot though. likes having her raptor to command and run around, and ride at level 4 Hope she has more fun once her spell options open up a bit more.
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Jan 29, 2023 05:53
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its my wife so if she's not having fun we'll have to go back to 5e or something, happy wife happy life, haha. But yeah our martals were like, fuckin pirouetting around for panache and stabbing for huge damage, wallrunning and jumping over stuff, and our barbarian went fury instinct and took the 2 action double move/attack feat and was zipping all over the place while raging to smack guys down, both also going for trips and intimidates and just having a blast. So A+ on how good martials feel. We'll give it a go for a few weeks, through troubles in otari and abomination vaults, get some more levels on the druid and see how it goes. worst case we look at some other spellcasters and see what shakes out. edit: i'll look at the flexible spellcasting archtype too. queeb fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Jan 29, 2023 |
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Jan 29, 2023 06:16
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queeb posted:So we just finished nearly the whole beginner box, about halfway through the 2nd level where you hit level 2 and for the most part everyone is loving it. our fighter and barbarian from 5e are playing a swashbuckler and barbarian here and just totally in love with all the combat options. Our usual spellcaster is playing an animal order druid, and i dont think shes really enjoying the spellcasting in this. only having 2 spells to prepare at level 1 and getting 1 cast of each without much flexibility and thats it is bumming her out, where in 5e she could have like 5+ spells prepared and cast 2 times but any of the spells prepared. Shes going to give it a shot though. likes having her raptor to command and run around, and ride at level 4 Actually, come to think of it, I kind of had a similar experience with Wizard in PF 2e. Felt way less "cool" than spellcasters in 5e. I think spellcasters in 5e have a huge array of options during character advancement, especially Bard. So, going from playing almost exclusively spellcasters in 5e to Wizard in PF 2e felt kinda meh. But, looking at some of the other classes (like thaumaturge, swashbuckler, etc.) there's a lot more going on there. I think the other part of the joy of spellcasters in 5e is having something with a breadth of tactical options (at least for me). In PF 2e, that absolutely exists, but I didn't find it with low-level Wizard. I can't speak to higher-levels or other spellcasters, as I went more towards martial classes and have enjoyed the advancement and tactical play a lot more. I would have to defer to the others that have more experience with PF 2e, though.
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Jan 29, 2023 06:25
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Honestly looking at the flexible spellcasting archtype, even that would work with un nerfed spell slots because really, we're coming from 5e where casters are OP as poo poo anyways, if our druid has 3 1st level spell slots she can flex cast from, its not the end of the world, and we only have one caster anyways so its not like if we had someone playing a wizard that would feel nerfed by not having that archtype. All in the name of fun, cause gently caress i was having fun trying to keep kobolds alive against the tactics that were going on. We'll keep going normally though for a few levels, not going to make any drastic changes like that until we play things as they should be for awhile.
queeb fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Jan 29, 2023 |
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Jan 29, 2023 06:37
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Casters kinda suck to play until at least 3rd and possibly even 5th level, honestly. (Psychic maybe excluded.) You just don't have the resources to contribute with your spells the way other characters can from the start, and there aren't many 1st level spells that have any kind of "oomph" to them regardless. 2nd level spells help a fair bit just because you can afford to actually use spells on things that aren't boss fights, but you get some cool stuff.
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Jan 29, 2023 06:45
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We just hit level 6 and it did really feel like things got a lot better for the spellcasters at 5. We've got a witch, a bard, and my cleric and the number of slots and expanded breadth of options is definitely helping. Having more slots definitely takes a bit of the sting out of the times every enemy makes their save and the attack cantrips being heightened to 3rd makes them feel substantially beefier.
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Jan 29, 2023 07:50
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Even at 5 it’s not great. Casters and casting are pretty mediocre except for Bards. particularly the out of combat utility spells, but also the combat stuff.
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Jan 29, 2023 08:12
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Finster Dexter posted:Actually, come to think of it, I kind of had a similar experience with Wizard in PF 2e. Felt way less "cool" than spellcasters in 5e. I think spellcasters in 5e have a huge array of options during character advancement, especially Bard. So, going from playing almost exclusively spellcasters in 5e to Wizard in PF 2e felt kinda meh. But, looking at some of the other classes (like thaumaturge, swashbuckler, etc.) there's a lot more going on there. Low-level anything in 2e has a limited amount of stuff, because you're expected to actually be able to use the entire level range instead of stopping at level 12 or 13 when everything in the mechanics of both 5e and 3.5 has basically just fallen apart. Or, in other words, levels 1-6 are basically the tutorial range where it drip-feeds you stuff to keep new players from being overwhelmed, and level 7 is where the general thematics kick over into openly superhuman action movie star territory and everything you can do starts really opening up in multiple ways.
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Jan 29, 2023 10:40
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sugar free jazz posted:particularly the out of combat utility spells Did Primal Sorcerer get nerfed or something? Last I played, Primal had pretty sweet low level stuff with Electric Arc (I forget the exact cantrip name) and Heal. It was generally a great fun time of palpatine hands, healing every hit point ever with Heal as a signature spell, and maybe a couple other things if they came up and you had the spell for it and didn't already use it to cast Heal. Especially if you picked up Champion archetype for constantly usable Lay on Hands with Sorcerer's focus spell recovery by just existing for 10 minutes. (And the ability to wear Platemail for a while until you got more Unarmored Proficiency if you didn't mind the speed loss) Just a lot of hp number go up or down at your whim plus idk Web or something if it's useful. And if it doesn't turn up useful, well, you just cast Heal with that slot if someone needs some hit points immediately because 2a Heal is pretty dang good at all levels. The other non-arcane spell lists of the time were definitely more meh than primal at level 1-4 though unless you steal Electric Arc from Primal/Arcane through human ancestry or whatever the exact method was. Yeah maybe it's kind of one note (two for primal sorc or divine sorc or cleric that gets electric arc access) to just Electric Arc most rounds like a lot of really low level PF2 combat for many classes. But if you have Electric Arc and fight encounters weren't just solo boss fights you were probably contributing fine outside some niche scenarios. And looking at some of the srd stuff it seems like it hasn't really changed in this regard. And a lot of classes can get access to Electric Arc through Primal or Arcane spell lists, even without ancestry feat stuff. Suzera fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Jan 29, 2023 |
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Jan 29, 2023 13:16
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queeb posted:So we just finished nearly the whole beginner box, about halfway through the 2nd level where you hit level 2 and for the most part everyone is loving it. our fighter and barbarian from 5e are playing a swashbuckler and barbarian here and just totally in love with all the combat options. Our usual spellcaster is playing an animal order druid, and i dont think shes really enjoying the spellcasting in this. only having 2 spells to prepare at level 1 and getting 1 cast of each without much flexibility and thats it is bumming her out, where in 5e she could have like 5+ spells prepared and cast 2 times but any of the spells prepared. Shes going to give it a shot though. likes having her raptor to command and run around, and ride at level 4 Keep in mind that she gets to change up five cantrips every time she rests. And these cantrips will level up with her. Also she'll be able to use a command to order her animal in combat and then cast a spell for the other two, giving her quite an easy action economy!
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Jan 29, 2023 14:20
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To put it another way: Sorc feels good if you just get Electric Arc by any means, choose good general use signature spells you actually might want to cast 16 times in a day, and then make everything else covering utility stuff you don't actually plan on casting except in niche cases. A big pile of Electric Arc and your main blast or Heal signature spell is usually Good Enough for most combat things that you shouldn't spend the rest of your spells known picks on anything remotely similar. Other than maybe a second damage cantrip (I think I picked Ray of Frost). This gives you a weird amount of versatility where you kind of just try to save the last spell slot of every level in case you need to use one of the niche utility non-signatures. Unlike any prepared caster who has to dedicate a slot to each of the utility or niche spells they might want to cast, while also having less slots. I'd assume something similar applies to Oracle and Bard as Sorc. I feel like if you're going to play one of the prepared casters, you're going to be relying more on the non-spell-slot-related class features to get your fun. E: Looked it up and it seems like Flexible Casting fixes this "preparing utility spells" problem for normally prepared casters. E2: Blessed One also looks like an even easier entry for Lay on Hands if you wanted to do Lay Hands Sorcerer. Suzera fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Jan 29, 2023 |
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Jan 29, 2023 14:28
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If you want a druid caster to feel good you probably can't pick animal order. PF2E budgets power, so if you put a bunch of your power into something that isn't casting, it's hard to be shocked when your casting isn't good. The difference at low levels is in your focus options. Storm, stone, and flame(kind of) have good combat options, and leaf has goodberries which are decent out of combat healing. You can also take order explorer at level 2, but aside from wild order, you really want the order focus spell and not the feat, so you have to take order magic and it doesn't come online until level 4. As you level up, you have to put feats into your animal companion or it falls off very hard. It kind of falls off anyway, but without the feats it's a bit of a liability. Basically if you want a druid that casts and has an animal companion, pick something with a good focus spell as your level 1 order, and take order explorer (animal) at level 2. Heal animal's just not good and it's a relatively big investment to get a decent focus spell. Sorcerers are easily the best pure casters, and bards are the best class that has 10th level casting, but it isn't really the focus of the class. Sorcerers basically give up the Druid's really cool focus spells (not you, animal order) in return for more spell slots. Signature spells lets you have a ton of utility if you plan it out right, and a lot of options for what to cast on a turn. I also think druids are vaguely punished in power budget terms for having a wisdom key stat, because it's also will saves. But Charisma gives you the option to intimidate or bon mot as a 3rd action. Bards otoh also have really useful focus abilities, and their songs, but less spell slots than sorcerers while still having the limited repertoire. Though honestly with signature spells it does not feel limiting as a bard, they're very good. Just boring since your turns are often very obvious.
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Jan 29, 2023 15:40
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It's nice that you can just be a nature Sorc if that's your bag.
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