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I'm still kind of disappointed that nobody ever seemed to realize in the books that the Aiel began as a "remnant of a remnant".
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Jan 25, 2023 23:27
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We also know that Jordan fully planned to have books dealing with Matt and Tuon dealing with the remains of the empire. So clearly there were plans to resolve this
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Jan 26, 2023 02:22
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CainFortea posted:We also know that Jordan fully planned to have books dealing with Matt and Tuon dealing with the remains of the empire. So clearly there were plans to resolve this Brando Sando in the AMOL 10th anniversary livestream mentioned the only notes left regarding these future novels and they involved Mat being down on his luck in a gutter, presumably in Seanchan. And Perrin traveling across the sea to kill a friend, presumably Mat. 
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Jan 26, 2023 13:54
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Hexel posted:Brando Sando in the AMOL 10th anniversary livestream mentioned the only notes left regarding these future novels and they involved Mat being down on his luck in a gutter, presumably in Seanchan. It seems like a weird trajectory for Mat's character that he starts out as the prince of the nation and to have an actual romantic relationship with the Queen, only to wind up in the gutter; even temporarily. I guess Tuon got fed up with his antics at some point? Or him with the rules and taboos of his new homeland. It does make me wonder if Mat still has "the Dark One's own luck" after the Last Battle though. He's presumably no longer ta'veren (I'd assume neither Rand or Perrin are either, for that matter), but the status of his luck is somewhat different. He presumably still has his memories of other men's lives to help guide him as a general, but the luck was something the Pattern was allowing to help him survive to the Last Battle as such so far as I can tell, rather than an innate power ala channeling or being a Wolfbrother.
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Jan 26, 2023 14:03
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tsob posted:It seems like a weird trajectory for Mat's character that he starts out as the prince of the nation and to have an actual romantic relationship with the Queen, only to wind up in the gutter; even temporarily. I guess Tuon got fed up with his antics at some point? Or him with the rules and taboos of his new homeland. It does make me wonder if Mat still has "the Dark One's own luck" after the Last Battle though. He's presumably no longer ta'veren (I'd assume neither Rand or Perrin are either, for that matter), but the status of his luck is somewhat different. He presumably still has his memories of other men's lives to help guide him as a general, but the luck was something the Pattern was allowing to help him survive to the Last Battle as such so far as I can tell, rather than an innate power ala channeling or being a Wolfbrother. It's also *possible* that Mat got (additional? recursive?) luck from his connection to Shadar Logoth and Fain; Fain is mentioned as having "the Dark One's Own Luck" also. Of course, the luckiest thing would be to get more luck.
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Jan 26, 2023 14:38
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Ungratek posted:I always liked that things weren't tied up in a neat bow at the end - our glimpse into the timeline is over, but the timeline continues. I don't know how anyone can read a 14-volume saga where every book opens by saying that there are neither beginnings nor endings and then complain that it doesn't resolve everything.
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Jan 26, 2023 14:58
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Did anyone complain that it didn't resolve anything? So far as I can see all anyone complained about were that specific things felt like they weren't sufficiently resolved for the amount of focus or weight they had within the narrative up to that point; which is not the same thing. I know that I only complained that two specific plot threads weren't given enough resolution to be satisfying to me for differing reasons. One because I felt like ending with a more open "and the conflict with Seanchan goes on despite them being okay with slavery" would be fine for Jordan to have done since he hoped to visit that particular thread again in another seires of books, but is weird for Sanderson to do since he never intended to pick up that thread, so his ending feels a lot more ambiguous on the whole slavery thing than if Jordan had lived and wrote more. And two because I felt like Aviendha's visions were so emotive that it deserved more to pay off that emotion.
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Jan 26, 2023 15:13
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:It should be explained right here that this is what Aviendha's purpose was all along (and that if Brandon Sanderson came up with this instead of it being in the notes, it was a really good job--I only have quibbles with the vision). The Wise Ones knew that she would be key to the preservation of the Aiel, and Robert Jordan threw multiple layers of red herrings at you throughout the series. This is my headcanon
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Jan 26, 2023 15:46
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tsob posted:It seems like a weird trajectory for Mat's character that he starts out as the prince of the nation and to have an actual romantic relationship with the Queen, only to wind up in the gutter; even temporarily. I guess Tuon got fed up with his antics at some point? Unknown What is interesting is there has been moderate buzz about future novels in the last month or so surrounding the AMOL 10th anniversary. Allegedly, there was a meeting at TOR where they went to their inhouse authors and said: "If you were to write a novel, prequel, sequel, whatever in Robert Jordans world what would you write about?" That could be completely bullshit and Jason Denzel called it BS on twitter but it was brought up during the AMOL livestream and Branderson said he would not write such novels. I believe Harriet and the Bandersnatch Group hold the novel rights currently but where do the rights go when she passes?
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Jan 26, 2023 17:29
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Into my hands hopefully. I’ll make more books I promise.
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Jan 26, 2023 17:33
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So long as we get more Billy Zane involvement at some point, truly we shall know the rights are in the safest hands possible. https://youtu.be/tb-q4Ap2IPk
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Jan 26, 2023 17:39
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Hexel posted:. I believe Harriet and the Bandersnatch Group hold the novel rights currently but where do the rights go when she passes? I don't think anyone knows this outside Bandersnatch. My guess would be a charity.
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Jan 26, 2023 17:51
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Hexel posted:Unknown Whenever I try to imagine the story of Mat and Tuon in Seanchan, my mind inevitably pictures something akin to Janny Wurts and Raymond E Feist's "Empire" trilogy, since it'd be about a foreign empire to the one familiar to that point that makes heavy use of slaves and exotic animals. The similarities are pretty superficial, but it's a good series and it bodes well in my head for how that story would go to tie it to something I already enjoy. That aside, I'd almost be more interested in stories about someone other than Mat/Tuon within Seanchan, where they're at best secondary characters the new cast occasionally interact with as part of the politics of the nation or maybe about the Sea Folk since I think we actually get less about them in the books than about Seanchan in some ways. A story about Shara would be great too, since it's such an unknown within the setting. The Mad Lands is perhaps the only space more unknown within the setting with only a few lines in one of the old companion books giving any detail i.e. the Sea Folk discovered it ages ago, and tried to make some trade there but the residents kill outsiders on sight so beyond getting a general mapping of the continent's dimensions they gave up on it and don't even travel there anymore. The people live in rough hovels throughout the continent because no real society ever developed after the Breaking due to the male channelers never being effectively controlled in their madness so the entire continent is constantly experiencing volcanic activity, and even the female channelers were apparently a bit mad. It seems like it'd make for fertile ground for new stories after the cleansing of Saidin and the Last Battle, because the lack of information means you can basically do anything there and it'd be a lot more open to new things once the Dark One's touch is gone. It's not like "after the Last Battle" is the only time you could ever do anything in either and while the Age of Legends or it's immediate after i.e. the Collapse, the War of Power and the Breaking is the most obvious other period, you could probably tell some interesting stories in the beginnings of the Third Age or even prior to the Age of Legends too; which is presumably the long distant time that some wolves think was when their companionship with men was more common. We have some idea what the Second Age (at least from the time of the Age of Legends) and Third Age are like and some indication of the direction the world would go after the Last Battle, but I don't think we really have any idea what the First Age was like. I'm presuming our age is the Fourth Age, but maybe it's the other way around. You could also just do a completely new turn of the Wheel with some of the same basic ideas but reimagined. You wouldn't even have to keep the same characters as such, since we know there's a female Dragon equivalent in Amerasu. She might experience things in a completely different way though, with different nations, politics, struggles etc. I'm sure Tor will want to make something of the license eventually, especially if the show ever takes off in a big way; we'll see I guess.
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Jan 26, 2023 18:01
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El Grillo posted:So long as we get more Billy Zane involvement at some point, truly we shall know the rights are in the safest hands possible. In college my friend Schmidt started a Billy Zane fan club, called The Zaniacs.
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Jan 26, 2023 19:33
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I kinda feel like one of the problems with someone writing new stories in the Wheel of Time world is that anything that doesn't feature characters we know has a real danger of feeling hella fanfiction-y. After all, the turning of the Wheel is infinite - you could realistically write whatever you wanted. On the other hand, stuff that does feature the characters we know has to deal with their 11-14 books worth of characterization and Brandon Sanderson has already shown how much of a task that is. tsob posted:I'm presuming our age is the Fourth Age, but maybe it's the other way around.
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Jan 26, 2023 20:57
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bio347 posted:
It's a wheel of Time. Technically all ages are both prior to and after the age of Legends
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Jan 26, 2023 21:04
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CainFortea posted:It's a wheel of Time. Technically all ages are both prior to and after the age of Legends The general consensus among the fanbase is that this is the First Age, which becomes the Second Age (Age of Legends) when people figure out how to channel, which becomes the Third Age upon the Breaking, and so on. And that each of the seven spokes in the Wheel is an age. We obviously don't have much to go on for what happens in 5, 6, or 7.
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Jan 26, 2023 23:03
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CainFortea posted:It's a wheel of Time. Technically all ages are both prior to and after the age of Legends But also if our age more or less immediately precedes the Age of Legends, I'm going to say that it comes before it no matter where we are on the timeline. Similarly, I would say that the books occur after the Age of Legends despite technically also occurring before it.
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Jan 26, 2023 23:06
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Gambor posted:The general consensus among the fanbase is that this is the First Age, which becomes the Second Age (Age of Legends) when people figure out how to channel, which becomes the Third Age upon the Breaking, and so on. And that each of the seven spokes in the Wheel is an age. We obviously don't have much to go on for what happens in 5, 6, or 7. I thought the thread was in universal agreement that dinosaurs were age 6, and ended when Ishameteor crashed into the planet, killing Lews Therin T-Rexamon
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Jan 26, 2023 23:11
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's also *possible* that Mat got (additional? recursive?) luck from his connection to Shadar Logoth and Fain; Fain is mentioned as having "the Dark One's Own Luck" also. Of course, the luckiest thing would be to get more luck. Jordan had said in an interview once that Mat's luck came from having a special soul, that of the capital G Gambler. But yeah who knows what that note Sanderson found meant. It could easily have been from a way earlier intent that was obsolete by the end. Like he talks about finding a note about Rand using the Choedan Kal during the last battle, despite that being basically impossible. He speculated that he thought that note was probably written around the time of book 5 or 6, I think he said. Could easily be the case with some of the post Tarmon Gaiden notes. Or perhaps Mat remains Ta'veren but what the pattern needs from him now is to be unlucky and that overpowers the effects of his soul. Or perhaps he's actually being really lucky but Mat being Mat interpreted it as bad luck for one reason or another. Gambor posted:The general consensus among the fanbase is that this is the First Age, which becomes the Second Age (Age of Legends) Is it? I havent followed the fanbase much since Wotmania shut down haha. I always figured we were age# 7, and there was at least one age between us and the AoL.
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Jan 26, 2023 23:17
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Gambor posted:The general consensus among the fanbase is that this is the First Age, which becomes the Second Age (Age of Legends) when people figure out how to channel, which becomes the Third Age upon the Breaking, and so on. And that each of the seven spokes in the Wheel is an age. We obviously don't have much to go on for what happens in 5, 6, or 7. I disagree with that consensus and think it's silly. But either way, that misses the point. It doesn't matter what age what is, it's all a circle. Saying that 2 pm is before noon is equally as valid as saying 2pm is after noon.
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Jan 26, 2023 23:33
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Gambor posted:The general consensus among the fanbase is that this is the First Age, which becomes the Second Age (Age of Legends) when people figure out how to channel, which becomes the Third Age upon the Breaking, and so on. And that each of the seven spokes in the Wheel is an age. We obviously don't have much to go on for what happens in 5, 6, or 7. I thought there were only 4 Ages? Regardless, I doubted the ordering because the wolves think about how they haven't run with men since long, long ago and before even the Age of Legends specifically if I recall so if our age is the First Age then that means it has to be a previous turning of the wheel when that happened. Additionally, if the Last Battle is the end of the Third Age as is implied and the Fouth Age will feature a rise of technology/industrialization that makes channeling obsolete or forgotten, then surely that's our Age? Never mind that the reforming of the face of the planet in the Breaking made it similar to our conception of Earth, while it would have been substantially different before that in the Age of Legends and thus before that in the First Age.
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Jan 26, 2023 23:43
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Here's my pitch for a Madlands book: The standing flow still works there. So you have vehicles and poo poo. But the dark one's taint has infected the standing flow so anyone using equipment that uses it goes a little nuts. And they probably wear bondage gear in full sunlight and put spikes on their cars because that's what crazy people do.
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Jan 27, 2023 01:12
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CainFortea posted:I disagree with that consensus and think it's silly. you have NO IDEA how mad Gremlins made me
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Jan 27, 2023 01:18
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Data Graham posted:you have NO IDEA how mad Gremlins made me Oh, I know friend. I know. Even as a child I was like "EVERY TIME IS AFTER MIDNIGHT YOU DUMBASS!"
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Jan 27, 2023 01:21
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CainFortea posted:Oh, I know friend. I know. Even as a child I was like "EVERY TIME IS AFTER MIDNIGHT YOU DUMBASS!" It's like liquor laws. Everyone knows the 'no selling alcohol after midnight or 2pm" part, but when that restriction wears off isn't nearly as important, because most people wait till a sane hour, like 8am or 10am to start buying alcohol again.
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Jan 27, 2023 01:58
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tsob posted:I thought there were only 4 Ages? Regardless, I doubted the ordering because the wolves think about how they haven't run with men since long, long ago and before even the Age of Legends specifically if I recall so if our age is the First Age then that means it has to be a previous turning of the wheel when that happened. Additionally, if the Last Battle is the end of the Third Age as is implied and the Fouth Age will feature a rise of technology/industrialization that makes channeling obsolete or forgotten, then surely that's our Age? Never mind that the reforming of the face of the planet in the Breaking made it similar to our conception of Earth, while it would have been substantially different before that in the Age of Legends and thus before that in the First Age. Your knowledge of WOT amazes me but also lack of it amazes me.
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Jan 27, 2023 04:04
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To me, the thing is that if the Real World is an age, or several, it can't really be the Fourth Age. The Third Age could reasonably transition into modern society, maybe, but where's all the stuff that comes before that? Where's the hunter-gatherers and the ancient empires and Jesus and the medieval stuff?
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Jan 27, 2023 05:31
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bio347 posted:To me, the thing is that if the Real World is an age, or several, it can't really be the Fourth Age. The Third Age could reasonably transition into modern society, maybe, but where's all the stuff that comes before that? Where's the hunter-gatherers and the ancient empires and Jesus and the medieval stuff? There's legends from our age in the 3rd/4th ages, so it hasn't been long enough for memories of our age to fade to nothing yet. Our age would be 7th or 1st. Magic would have to lost by the start of our age, and refound before the start of the 2nd age. Plus some sort of cataclysm with a lot of time to bury ruins and artifacts from AoL and the 3rd/4th age so we can't find them with technology. AoL can find our artifacts, and build off them, but there needs to be a long period of peace during or before the end of the AoL for them to forget war strategy.
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Jan 27, 2023 06:10
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Yeah at the start Thom talks about America and Moscow and John Glenn and other current stuff. Then the museum in Tanchiko has a Mercedes-Benz hood ornament. That stuff is too easily remembered if it was from the 4th age and the books take place in the 3rd.
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Jan 27, 2023 07:28
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cheesetriangles posted:Yeah at the start Thom talks about America and Moscow and John Glenn and other current stuff. Then the museum in Tanchiko has a Mercedes-Benz hood ornament. That stuff is too easily remembered if it was from the 4th age and the books take place in the 3rd. Yeah its Egwene asking for specific stories about "Mosk and Merk who were giants that fought with lances of fire that could reached around the world, or Lenn who rode to the moon in the belly of an Eagle and his daughter Sayla who walked among the stars, or Elsbet the Queen of all etc" which are all pretty clear references to the cold war, a mashup of a bunch of space program stuff and references to Elizabeth II. The others are more esoteric references to Ann Landers and uh... Mother Theresa I think? Its been a while since I read EotW. Which seems to imply the late 20th century kept a bunch of pull  . Several of the stories get referenced later too as an examination on how stories change over time.The museum also has a giraffe skeleton. Mat also meets John Henry as a Hero of the Horn in A Memory of Light Zore fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Jan 27, 2023 |
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Jan 27, 2023 07:43
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Has it ever been specifically noted that Lenn is John Glenn? Because he never walked on the moon, but two different Alans did and I could see Lenn being derived from Alan.
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Jan 27, 2023 09:00
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I figured that’s some “let’s disco dance, Hammurabi!” type stuff. Mashup of all the space race events, like who in 500 years won't believe kennedy lost to Oswald in a gunfight on the moon Also I always thought “wouldn’t it be an additional pisser if those Lenn and Mosk references were to a different turning of the wheel in which America and Ann Landers and Elizabeth all sort of existed but in different circumstances from our world Not only would that account for a lot of the confusion of dim memories, it would also mean we might be before the books or after, who the hell knows Data Graham fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Jan 27, 2023 |
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Jan 27, 2023 12:53
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Khizan posted:Has it ever been specifically noted that Lenn is John Glenn? Because he never walked on the moon, but two different Alans did and I could see Lenn being derived from Alan. A lot of this is covered in the recent Origins of The Wheel Of Time book by Michael Livingston, where there is a game of telephone going on as to who landed on the moon or went to space.
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Jan 27, 2023 13:10
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jetz0r posted:AoL can find our artifacts, and build off them, but there needs to be a long period of peace during or before the end of the AoL for them to forget war strategy.
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Jan 27, 2023 13:29
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Barreft posted:Your knowledge of WOT amazes me but also lack of it amazes me. I read the majority of the series back before I used the internet to do much more than download anime and porn, and specifically avoided reading anything about the books once I'd dropped off them because I always knew that I'd finish the series some day. As such, I didn't do any reading online about theories or other people's perceptions of the series until 6 months or so ago when I finally did finish the series. So any glaring holes in my knowledge can probably best be explained by a lot of it just being my own perception of things as a teenager filtered through nearly 2 decades of half baked memory and calcifying as what is before I actually started interacting with any kind of community about it. cheesetriangles posted:Yeah at the start Thom talks about America and Moscow and John Glenn and other current stuff. Then the museum in Tanchiko has a Mercedes-Benz hood ornament. That stuff is too easily remembered if it was from the 4th age and the books take place in the 3rd. The hood ornament stood out to me when I was reading for instance because Egwene thinks it feels/seems even older than the fossilized bones there, one of which could be a dinosaur; which would imply dinosaurs came again after contemporary times i.e. another turning - it may just not be a dinosaur though, since it's quite a generic description of "a toothy lizard ten paces long".
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Jan 27, 2023 14:57
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rocketrobot posted:Here's my pitch for a Madlands book: The standing flow still works there. So you have vehicles and poo poo. But the dark one's taint has infected the standing flow so anyone using equipment that uses it goes a little nuts. And they probably wear bondage gear in full sunlight and put spikes on their cars because that's what crazy people do. Mad Max: Fury Road is actually a WoT sequel
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Jan 27, 2023 15:39
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Garfield statue is my favorite fan theory.
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Jan 27, 2023 16:03
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Mad Mat: Fury Road.
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Jan 27, 2023 16:06
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Mad Perrin: Furry Road
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Jan 27, 2023 16:07
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