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birds posted:We’re planning our honeymoon and are thinking about Turkey and Greece. Is late April/early May still going to be too chilly to go into the water? Our main objective is to relax at some nice resorts while avoiding peak season. It depends on what you're used to, but I doubt it since you mention "relaxing", which I imagine means "splashing around style swimming" and not "athletic swimming". You can look for precise temperatures from previous years for exact dates. https://weather-stats.com/turkey/fethiye/sea_temperature/april. Average water temperature looks like it will be around 19° on the south coast on 1 May. So it's fine if you want to actively swim, but it is not pleasant if you just want to splash around and relax. When we went in early April a year and a half ago it was around 17° on the south coast, and not at all pleasant. We went in one time because we brought bathing suits, goddammit. 19° water on a nice sunny day is normally my limit even for athletic swimming. Greece will be even colder, e.g. 17°C for Lesbos on 1 May ( https://weather-stats.com/greece/lesbos/sea_temperature/april ), around 18°C for Crete. There's a reason it's the off season. The water is tolerable by mid-May (~21) and nice by the end of May (~23).
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Jan 17, 2023 20:03
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Saladman posted:It depends on what you're used to, but I doubt it since you mention "relaxing", which I imagine means "splashing around style swimming" and not "athletic swimming". You can look for precise temperatures from previous years for exact dates. https://weather-stats.com/turkey/fethiye/sea_temperature/april. Average water temperature looks like it will be around 19° on the south coast on 1 May. So it's fine if you want to actively swim, but it is not pleasant if you just want to splash around and relax. When we went in early April a year and a half ago it was around 17° on the south coast, and not at all pleasant. We went in one time because we brought bathing suits, goddammit. 19° water on a nice sunny day is normally my limit even for athletic swimming. Seems like October might be the sweet spot then, thanks!
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Jan 18, 2023 04:35
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birds posted:Seems like October might be the sweet spot then, thanks! Yep, October is awesome for the Mediterranean water. I don’t have any hard numbers but anecdotally October seems to have fewer people around than late May, despite the water being warmer in October. There’s much less light compared to May is the only moderate downside, but I think I care about sunlight hours more than most people as I tend to get up at sunrise (well, until it starts hitting like 5am) and stop doing stuff after sunset and retreat home, like a reverse vampire.
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Jan 18, 2023 10:03
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“In Greece” can mean a lot of things, and I haven’t been there yet, but isn’t there a “season” for most of the inter-island ferries? As in, almost no ferries from (made up times) mid-October through mid-May?
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Jan 18, 2023 16:05
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Yeah, we were in Greece in November and we had to take planes between the islands since there were no ferries anymore. The water in Santorini was definitely a little bit colder than I would call comfortable, and I'm a Canadian.
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Jan 18, 2023 16:41
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:“In Greece” can mean a lot of things, and I haven’t been there yet, but isn’t there a “season” for most of the inter-island ferries? As in, almost no ferries from (made up times) mid-October through mid-May? Real people live on the islands so all / nearly all the ferries do run year-round between the island and Athens, but at a hugely reduced schedule, like maybe as low as 1x-2x/week. For direct ferries between islands, like Santorini-Mykonos, those won't run, except maybe for islands that are directly on the same straight-line route from Athens. We took the ferry to Santorini in November from Athens, for instance.
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Jan 18, 2023 17:52
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We were in Mykonos in late October a few years back and it was a ghost town. Actively shutting down around us. Santorini was nice, although the beaches were deserted. Ferries were still running.
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Jan 19, 2023 05:56
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Wizzair gave me a  voucher so I'm off to Milan for a weekend in February  Anything particular of particular interest to check out in and around beyond the usual Tripadvisor stuff?
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Jan 26, 2023 16:53
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mobby_6kl posted:Wizzair gave me a for an authentic experience try going to a Milan game wearing an Inter shirt and getting your head kicked in
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Jan 26, 2023 23:34
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See if you can get tickets to Santa Maria Delle Grazie, it’s where the Last Supper painting is located
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Jan 27, 2023 03:06
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mobby_6kl posted:Wizzair gave me a I went in the summer, so YMMV, but I liked the random parks scattered near the downtown core, especially the Giardini Indro Montanelli and Parco Sempione. They're both near lots of little streets filled with beautiful buildings and little restaurants Quick example: walk east from Corso Venezia to Via Giuseppe Baretti; there's a nondescript little square flanked by gorgeous old apartments labeled as Piazza Eleonora Duse on Google Maps. Really lovely. --- So I'm trying to plan our summer getaway for this year. Early thoughts are direct flight to Paris -> flight to Nice -> rent a car and go east to Monte Carlo -> drive to Tropez (Ramatuelle, specifically) -> drive to Les-Baux -> drive north back to Paris (through Avignon, Lyon, etc), drop the car off, fly home. Looking at something like 10 days for all of it. Anything I should be concerned about? I've never driven in France but given our trajectory I would prefer that over taking trains; I'm willing to be talked out of it if it sucks. The somewhat random locations are because my wife's work gets us comped stays at luxury hotels, but max 2 nights, so we're constantly on the move.
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Jan 27, 2023 20:32
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CmdrSmirnoff posted:So I'm trying to plan our summer getaway for this year. Early thoughts are direct flight to Paris -> flight to Nice -> rent a car and go east to Monte Carlo -> drive to Tropez (Ramatuelle, specifically) -> drive to Les-Baux -> drive north back to Paris (through Avignon, Lyon, etc), drop the car off, fly home. Looking at something like 10 days for all of it. Anything I should be concerned about? I've never driven in France but given our trajectory I would prefer that over taking trains; I'm willing to be talked out of it if it sucks. The somewhat random locations are because my wife's work gets us comped stays at luxury hotels, but max 2 nights, so we're constantly on the move. Sounds OK for 10 days, although you may be planning too much. Monaco is fine for like, 2 hours. The nearby village of Eze is great. Ideally I hope your summer is not August, when the whole area is swamped. It is possible to do in August, I did that a couple years ago, but even in COVID summer it was packed. If your summer is before mid-July it will be awesome. If your summer is mid-late July it will be OK. If your summer is August then... plan everything in advance, very far, as you will see cities literally book every single hotel room and accommodation. Both driving and trains could work fine for your itinerary in principle. In favor of driving: summer is hot, and the countryside is neat. If driving I'd adjust your itinerary to hit more things in the countryside, like the Luberon area has a ton of super cute towns like Lacoste, Menerbes, Apt. I mean depends what you like, there's nothing in those towns except a bakery and a couple cafes, but they're Extremely Very French and the scenery is great. There are luxury hotels all over the countryside so I don't think that will be such a problem with any intinerary. I found the Verdon Gorge to be very underwhelming, and I went into it with very low expectations. If you are from a farm in Kansas and have never seen a canyon in your life, it is probably impressive. Otherwise, it's like... fine but it's extremely overhyped as the "Grand Canyon of Europe". I really like Antibes, been there a couple times for vacation (once Aug, once Sept), loved it both times. So just because a place is famous doesn't mean it is bad. I thought Cannes and Monaco were meh. If Monaco wasn't its own "country" it would be a third rate stop on the French riviera. Never been to Saint Tropez. I really, really like the Calanques area, especially Cassis. Marseille is also a hugely underrated city, I massively prefer it in every way to Lyon, which I've been to several times and every time I found it boring and their "famous" Lyonnaise cuisine is like, a bog standard sausage. I'm sure there are amazing restaurants in Lyon, but they won't serve traditional Lyonnaise cuisine. If you like mountains, the drive from Nice up to Briançon and up to Grenoble is absolutely amazing incredible, even from someone who has been in Switzerland for many years. It has the highest road in Europe too at Cime de la Bonette. I am a chill driver and almost got road rage from all the camper vans going at 20 kph the whole time and who don't ever pull to the side off even when safe to do so, so... that would be one concern for going that route in mid-July to late-Aug if you are not the most relaxed driver going along 50 kph under the safe speed limit. Basically if you rent a car I would reconsider your destinations and routes substantially. If you have a car, don't go Nice -> Marseille -> Avignon -> Lyon -> Paris. Just take the train if you do that. If you do rent a car, do something like Nice -> Mercantour -> Briancon -> Dijon -> Paris OR something like Nice -> Calanques -> Luberon -> Avignon -> Dijon -> Paris. I might be biased against Lyon. Some people love it, but I never figured out why. It has a hill with a good view of the city and a kind of OK but wholly unremarkable city center, but ... that's it, as far as I have found. I'm not a super expert in the area, have spent maybe 20 days total in the PACA region over 4 trips, and every time was by car, so I might be totally wrong about trains being OK. I like driving a lot though, even in busy inner cities.
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Jan 27, 2023 23:13
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All of that is good info, thanks a ton. We're going in late June, and the hotels we're likely staying at are in the towns I mentioned. My intention was for them to be a home base for us while we explore the countryside with Extremely Very French music playing on the car radio.
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Jan 28, 2023 04:26
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kiimo posted:lol but thanks for backing me up. Any wine recommendations? I plan to take several bottles back home. Something that’s less mainstream I guess? I live in an Asian mega city, lots of imports of big name french wines like Louis Latour, puilley fuisse, etc but I don’t know too much about Italian wines. Thanks!!
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Jan 28, 2023 06:19
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I’m from the Midwest US where wine comes in a box and people drink riuniti on ice. Others will have better recs
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Jan 28, 2023 06:23
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Hey goons, It’s a little late but I plan on going flying to Milan march 31- April 14. I have been to northern Italy and Europe quite a few times for work, but my partner has not been to Italy or Switzerland. I never took high speed rail in Italy, only drove a rental van and stuffed all my coworkers and their suit cases and their instant noodles and tea leaves. Driving up and down the mountains of bologna were a little scary with huge lumber trucks and cargo trucks going through the windy roads and dealing with fast fast aggressive drivers. Fun times. Here is a preliminary schedule, we both love food, art, and history, especially about the borgias. However, we are a little worried about being “churched out” 3 nights Milan 2 nights padova? Gateway to Venice - I only did half day trips there and wanted to stay longer 2 nights to Florence - wanted to eat some good steak florentine, added a few locations listed in this thread 5 nights of Rome - should be enough of rest and we can go to Vatican City for a day (but Easter ugh) 2 nights Pompeii I browsed through the last 20 pages thanks for all the insights. Last question, is there a cheap luggage forwarding service in Europe or Italy? I’m kind of addicted to kuroneko Yamato transport in japan. I can send my 9kg suitcase for 11 euros from Tokyo to Osaka (4 hour high speed rail ride) hotel to hotel same day delivery (before 10am pickup). Fingers crossed for hands free travel, I think I’m done lugging my bags from point to point. Heck, SF express in japan is offering to send your bags from your hotel to your home for a minor fee. I hope there’s a similar service in Europe? Fingers crossed And how easy is it to go to a small shops and buy their souvenirs/food and send to your next destination or hotel ? Do stores offer prepay courier service ? I suppose none of us go to Europe for service, it’s good food and history. I can’t wait to pay Pennies for yogurt, cold cuts, cheese and wine. Heck I’ll settle for autogrill. Wait there’s autogrill in India, Australia, Malaysia , and America? But no Spain?
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Jan 28, 2023 06:37
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Oh yeah eater makes decent food guides across the world. It’s a little hipsterish, but most of their food guide I think is a solid 8/10 https://www.eater.com/maps/best-rome-restaurants Yes there’s an Indian restaurant and Ethiopian! I think the Indian is a little bit of a dud or standard but I can’t eat easily injera in south east Asia so I might go.
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Jan 28, 2023 06:39
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The UK is instituting some "visa but not a visa" with minimum 48 hour turn around time, AND a $8 fee? Even for US and EU citizens? Well gently caress you then, there's nothing left I need to see there that's worth going through that hassle. I'll take my tourist dollars elsewhere. I'm not sure who in immigration is working overtime to gently caress up your economy so bad over there, but I have zero interest in visiting countries that can't handle basic tasks like visa on arrival.
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Jan 28, 2023 07:11
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Wonton posted:Any wine recommendations? I plan to take several bottles back home. Something that’s less mainstream I guess? Look for some AR.PE.PE. while you are in Milan, good red food wine if you don’t mind something a bit tannic.
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Jan 28, 2023 07:23
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Saladman posted:Sounds OK for 10 days, although you may be planning too much. Monaco is fine for like, 2 hours. The nearby village of Eze is great. In addition to Saladman's recs consider: Nîmes, area around Orange, Forêt de Saou (never been but always thought it looks cool). If you're not going to stop anywhere north of Lyon/Dijon you could consider dropping the car there and taking a TGV - fun if you've never done it and avoids 4 hours on very boring motorways. distortion park fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Jan 28, 2023 |
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Jan 28, 2023 08:54
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Hadlock posted:The UK is instituting some "visa but not a visa" with minimum 48 hour turn around time, AND a $8 fee? Even for US and EU citizens? This, uh, sure is a take coming from a country with a $160 fee for an interview for a visitor visa that you need to get to a consulate for.
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Jan 28, 2023 10:48
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There should probably be a dedicated thread for ESTA, considering how many Western Europeans get refused entry to the US 
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Jan 28, 2023 10:58
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Hadlock posted:The UK is instituting some "visa but not a visa" with minimum 48 hour turn around time, AND a $8 fee? Even for US and EU citizens? You know that the USA already does this and the EU/Schengen is implementing this also in 2023… right? The EU one is called a ETIAS. Some other countries do this too, eg Turkey. Also while it can take "up to" 48 hours I imagine it will be instantaneous in practice like the ESTA for 99% of visa waiver people, unless you’ve been to a handful of countries that people don’t usually travel to, plus Iran and now since Biden loves implementing Trump policies, also Cuba. It is super annoying and I hate it, and while the UK government is poo poo, they are just following the pattern set by their neighbors. CmdrSmirnoff posted:All of that is good info, thanks a ton. We're going in late June, and the hotels we're likely staying at are in the towns I mentioned. My intention was for them to be a home base for us while we explore the countryside with Extremely Very French music playing on the car radio. Nice, that and early/mid September are the best time of the year to be in that part of France. Everything is open, the weather is amazing, and everyone is still at work or in school. Even if you're "stuck" with deluxe hotels in the bigger cities already, there are still plenty of options and getting from Nice or Avignon to the countryside by car is easy too. IMHO pick up a DK guidebook or similar and see what interests you. The only thing that I mentioned that would definitely be out then is the Mercantour park and Cime de la Bonette -- unless you want to do it as a daytrip from France if you've never been to high Alpine mountains before. The Chateau des Papes in Avignon is neat, and I really liked their sound and light show at night, although it was the first one I'd ever seen so if I saw it again I might be less impressed since they're in like every major city in France now and a fair number of other countries, like Egypt. Pont du Gard I also thought was really impressive, but it is also quite a detour so you'd want to make sure if that's really your thing. Carcassone is also awesome if you want to flip around and go a fairly different way from what you initially had in mind. Wonton posted:Here is a preliminary schedule, we both love food, art, and history, especially about the borgias. However, we are a little worried about being “churched out” Churched out is a real risk! There is no transportation of luggage between hotels in Europe, barring some very exceptional cases like if you're doing a hike in Switzerland between mountain huts on a very few specific routes. I don't think courier service is a thing in Europe unless you want to pay like two hundred euros for it. I might be wrong but I've never, ever heard of it. I think that is a uniquely Japanese thing, in terms of it being a service normal people use. 1 full day in Pompeii is way more than enough, but I guess you saw all the stuff about other nearby sites on the last pages (or in Wikitravel or in every guidebook). Same for Padova, 1 full day is more than enough but it's fine as a base for a full daytrip to Venice too. All of Easter Week / Holy Week is supposed to be packed, but we were there last year the week after Holy Week and it was fine, although it still took an hour to get in through the security queue and there were still tons of pilgrims -- more than usual in other times I've been there. It looks like the bad Easter week (the pilgrimage and megapacked week) is the one that starts on Palm Sunday, so if you're there from 2-9 April then uh, dang. Still, worth going to St Peters as it is absolutely mindblowing so I doubt you can be "churched out" of it; it's just absurdly more impressive than any other church in terms of grandeur, sorry Florence. I am churched out, but St Peters is still incredible. You've got 5 days, so... go on a weekday that's not a holiday and it should be less crowded. I went during the day on Christmas Eve about 10 years ago and it was about an hour queue then too, so you should be OK even if you're there on April 2-9, just avoid Easter Sunday (obviously?). For museums in Rome: this was probably on the previous pages, but it's worth emphasizing again: buy tickets in advance. Like at least a week in advance. Especially for Villa Borghese and the Vatican Museum they can and will sell out several days in advance. For the Roman forum and coliseum, they won't sell out but buying online can save you a waiting in line time. Saladman fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Jan 28, 2023 |
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Jan 28, 2023 11:20
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Paperhouse posted:for an authentic experience try going to a Milan game wearing an Inter shirt and getting your head kicked in webmeister posted:See if you can get tickets to Santa Maria Delle Grazie, it’s where the Last Supper painting is located CmdrSmirnoff posted:I went in the summer, so YMMV, but I liked the random parks scattered near the downtown core, especially the Giardini Indro Montanelli and Parco Sempione. They're both near lots of little streets filled with beautiful buildings and little restaurants Quick example: walk east from Corso Venezia to Via Giuseppe Baretti; there's a nondescript little square flanked by gorgeous old apartments labeled as Piazza Eleonora Duse on Google Maps. Really lovely.
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Jan 28, 2023 14:19
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Hadlock posted:The UK is instituting some "visa but not a visa" with minimum 48 hour turn around time, AND a $8 fee? Even for US and EU citizens? As mentioned, tick another 27 countries off your list because Schengen is implementing the same thing starting November 2023. But you've saved $8, so I guess it evens out.
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Jan 28, 2023 20:50
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The tourist Schengen visa won't be required of UK or US citizens. What a massive pain in the rear end for those affected. https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/tourist-schengen-visa/ quote:What Documents are Required When Applying for a Tourist Schengen Visa?
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Jan 28, 2023 21:25
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WaryWarren posted:The tourist Schengen visa won't be required of UK or US citizens. What a massive pain in the rear end for those affected. The EISTA is not the tourist Schengen visa and yes, US and UK citizens need one. https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/who-needs-etias/
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Jan 28, 2023 21:40
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Saladman posted:buying online can save you a waiting in line time. The forum and Colosseum tickets are all online now, you literally cannot purchase them in person anymore.
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Jan 28, 2023 21:41
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HookShot posted:The EISTA is not the tourist Schengen visa and yes, US and UK citizens need one. Maybe not the right thread for it, but: quote:Foreign nationals who have a long-stay D visa for the Schengen area. I'm a US citizen who has an EU Blue Card issued by Germany. I have never heard of a "long-stay D visa", am I gonna have to do this poo poo whenever I come home to Germany from visiting family in the States? Edit: answered my own question. quote:Do I need an ETIAS visa if I already have a long-term visa from one of the Member States? Drone fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jan 28, 2023 |
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Jan 28, 2023 22:02
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Sounds like we might be overlapping in Florence! Maybe we should get a gelato and post about it in the thread...
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Jan 28, 2023 22:26
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Seems like a lovely legal loophole to revoke visa on arrival for most of the western world Interesting that every page about this stuff has a FAQ and #1 is "so is this a visa?" and the response is a carefully worded, "this does not meet the legal standard of a visa" or similar
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Jan 28, 2023 22:31
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Hadlock posted:Seems like a lovely legal loophole to revoke visa on arrival for most of the western world Yeah, I don't really get it either. Any money they get from it will go into administration for dealing with it, so it's not like it's a money maker, I bet it costs more than those $8 will bring in, and I literally cannot even think of one single purpose that it serves. "Pre travel check" makes no sense. The ETIAS will last three years. The ESTA lasts two. No idea how long the Turkish/Canadian/UK/whatever ones last, but it's a definite trend and the only purpose seems to be to mess with people who don't know how to deal with the administrative minutiae of travel... meaning basically everyone who is not a regular trans-Atlantic flyer. Why these things don't last the lifetime of your passport? Who loving knows. Kind of like an International Driver's Permit, it just seems like purely an administrative scam.
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Jan 28, 2023 23:38
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Saladman posted:Yeah, I don't really get it either. Any money they get from it will go into administration for dealing with it, so it's not like it's a money maker, I bet it costs more than those $8 will bring in, and I literally cannot even think of one single purpose that it serves. "Pre travel check" makes no sense. It's not meant to be a money maker. It's purely retributive because the US and Canada have had the exact same thing in place since 2007 and 2016 respectively for all but an extremely tiny selection of countries. And to be honest, it's 100% fair considering the circumstances and somewhat surprising it didn't happen earlier. If EU/Schengen countries are not given pure visa-free access then why should they give it to others? MagicCube fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Jan 29, 2023 |
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Jan 29, 2023 00:42
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Hadlock posted:Seems like a lovely legal loophole to revoke visa on arrival for most of the western world Just imagine the time you'll save in the queue after the global south gets rejected at home for not submitting their forms properly!
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Jan 29, 2023 01:35
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MagicCube posted:It's not meant to be a money maker. It's purely retributive because the US and Canada have had the exact same thing in place since 2007 and 2016 respectively for all but an extremely tiny selection of countries. I don't fully disagree but at the same time limiting the number of tourists coming into your county both has the short term effect of reducing tourism dollars, and long term effect of reducing international business. I'm more likely to do business with a country that has no hassle visa on arrival than some country that has weird diplomatic retribution rules in place that harms the wrong group. My buddy lives in Colombia with his Colombian wife pumping an extra 50k (or more) a year directly into their economy because I went there on a visa on arrival tourism trip. I would have never suggested Colombia to him if it had been a pain in the rear end to get in there. In 2009 I almost struck Argentina off my list because they had weird visa rules but had just updated them to allow visa on arrival in BA. Those are terrible examples but he's now hiring some Colombian contactors for his UK company, and I helped choose Colombia over Mexico to hire 9 contractors because I have a favorable opinion of the country. Small things but you start putting road blocks up and 5-10 years later it starts ruining opportunities for regular people At another company, the founder did a study abroad in Bulgaria in 1997 (on a student visa, so tangential, but still,). When I left the company in 2017 they had a satellite office in Sofia (the capital) with 50 very well paid employees there Digital passports should be making things easier not harder to build bridges
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Jan 29, 2023 01:56
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greazeball posted:Just imagine the time you'll save in the queue after the global south gets rejected at home for not submitting their forms properly! The global south, famous for previously benefitting from effortless and free entry to Western countries. Americans having to put in almost one tenth of the money and effort required for travel documents will surely somehow affect them.
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Jan 29, 2023 02:09
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Hadlock posted:Digital passports should be making things easier not harder to build bridges I fully agree with this, but you need to look inward before blaming other countries. If the USA had not implemented ESTA in 2007 this conversation wouldn't be happening. It's the US wanting to have their cake and eat it too. Americans got a free ride from the EU on this issue for 16 years and now when the playing field gets levelled, they feel aggrieved.
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Jan 29, 2023 02:30
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MagicCube posted:If the USA had not implemented ESTA in 2007 this conversation wouldn't be happening. It's the US wanting to Look I voted against the guy in office when that went in to place, along with the numerical majority of Americans. Both times. Kneecapping euro tourism seems like an awful and ineffectual way to resolve the problem though
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Jan 29, 2023 02:40
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Alucard posted:Sounds like we might be overlapping in Florence! Maybe we should get a gelato and post about it in the thread... LETS DO IT
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Jan 29, 2023 03:12
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Reposting, please help, thank you Wonton posted:Hey goons,
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Jan 29, 2023 03:20
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