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Gravitas Shortfall posted:I am an Ana and I end up spending a lot of time trying to get into a point where I have LOS and end up just giving up, if he wants heals he can come to me. I also have no idea if ball players get any value out of nano but often there's no good other targets. Yeah, following dive tanks is suicide usually. I used to play Ball before and I think he's a pretty bad target for Nano. His abilities are all low damage single target or lower damage AoE and it's a bad combo with his ult. The only way he'll get any value out of Nano is by being really good with the guns or by soaking up a lot of damage from enemy team.
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Jan 27, 2023 12:31
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Nanoing a ball into a tough choke can be pretty good but yeah theres usually someone better to give it to
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Jan 27, 2023 12:39
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I'm of the opposite opinion. The entire team should follow with ball. You should literally all be playing characters with high mobility. Ball's purpose is to cause general chaos and then the rest of the team should absolutely destroy anyone who steps into the wrong place to avoid him.
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Jan 27, 2023 13:25
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dogstile posted:I'm of the opposite opinion. The entire team should follow with ball. You should literally all be playing characters with high mobility. Ball's purpose is to cause general chaos and then the rest of the team should absolutely destroy anyone who steps into the wrong place to avoid him. So what exactly is stopping the opponent's team from just ignoring the ball and killing the supports/dps that have all walked out of cover/used their mobility tools trying to follow the Ball?
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Jan 27, 2023 14:00
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jesus christ
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Jan 27, 2023 14:11
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Jack Trades posted:So what exactly is stopping the opponent's team from just ignoring the ball and killing the supports/dps that have all walked out of cover/used their mobility tools trying to follow the Ball? It's an arms race. You should be better prepared to dive 3 people on one of their squishies before they can get on yours. You are the white chess pieces in this scenario.
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Jan 27, 2023 14:13
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If we are talking about the whole team diving with the ball, it kinda assumes a dive comp.
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Jan 27, 2023 14:17
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PantsBandit posted:I just think it's fun to throw death balls into hallways Me too. It reminds me of the HalfLife 2 deathmatch games bouncing that ball all over the place. hope and vaseline posted:Mercy's movement is absolutely insane and really fun to master I'll never understand how to move properly with Mercy. Jack Trades posted:So what exactly is stopping the opponent's team from just ignoring the ball and killing the supports/dps that have all walked out of cover/used their mobility tools trying to follow the Ball? Nothing, and this is usually how it goes because everyone thinks ball is a throw pick because they don't know how to play with him. There's all kinds of tutorials on how to play ball, but not how to play with a ball. His ult would be amazing to combo with Sigma, Zarya, Orissa, Hog, Rein etc, but isn't so great with anyone else, besides mayyyyybe Mei? Make ball DPS 2023.
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Jan 27, 2023 14:18
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Yeah, Hammond should just be a DPS character. His kit is already a mix between old Doomfist and Reaper. Use a movement ability to get in, combo one target, use another ability to get out, repeat. There's no good reason for him to be a Tank in the first place.
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Jan 27, 2023 14:23
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I mean if Blizz would have moved all the Fat-DPS* characters from tank to Damage with their HP-pools intact, it would have been cool. But without huge HP-pool, DPS-Hammond would be a sad little hamster. *Hog, Hammond, DVA, Zarya. Also Junkqueen now.
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Jan 27, 2023 14:27
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:
The game is much easier to understand while rotating a round a fixed point that moves in an understandable way like rein. He is a big standard flag that tells you where to go and how to flank. There is no doubt it helps people play a simpler game. I don't know if playing around ball without him solo carrying is an option below mid plat.
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Jan 27, 2023 14:29
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Issaries posted:I mean if Blizz would have moved all the Fat-DPS* characters from tank to Damage with their HP-pools intact, it would have been cool. You could make his shield work like a Zarya bubble, or something, and he'll work with Bastion-level HP, I'm pretty sure. Just gotta boot the damage output a little bit to make the kill combos more consistent.
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Jan 27, 2023 14:31
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Tell us you've never played against a good Wrecking Ball without saying so. Please never again mention making his kills more consistent you absolute fuckng walnut.
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Jan 27, 2023 14:36
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I mean it was in a context of making him a normal HP DPS hero. If survivability goes down, something is gotta go up.
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Jan 27, 2023 14:44
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:I am an Ana and I end up spending a lot of time trying to get into a point where I have LOS and end up just giving up, if he wants heals he can come to me. I also have no idea if ball players get any value out of nano but often there's no good other targets. For the record, Ball is a decent Nano target. With Nano his Roll will do 75 damage and his slam will do max 150 damage (my memory is saying Slam is 100 base damage, someone correct me if I’m wrong on this). If he slams directly on a person Nano Slam+Melee is all he needs to delete a target with 200 HP. Because it’s hard to assume if he’ll get both the Roll and the Slam in one, it’s usually easier to throw the Nano right when he’s about to Slam. Otherwise, tossing a grenade as the enemies land (there’s a slight pull effect on the Slam towards the center, grouping them up more) is more than devastating enough. I don’t believe you have to all go Dive with Ball, but if you don’t then you need to be a long range character that can quickly follow up on a Slam from high ground (Ashe, Widow, maybe Soldier and Ana, Zen, and maybe Brig to protect your backline better). The timing can be a lot harder though, so it’s easier to just go Dive. Even nerfed Sombra can work. https://youtu.be/ljFPvoFZ6r8
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Jan 27, 2023 14:49
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Ball doesn't really need healing the same way other tanks do. He has a boatload of bonus health and needs to stay moving, and that means he uses health packs more than support healing. If ball is your tank, focus your support powers on confirming kills and keeping your squishies alive. For example, anas sniper rifle may be more useful doing damage to pile-driver targets because ball may not be healable for a large portion of the fight because he still has shields. All that said, the ball should still engaging where his team can help. Far too often he drives behind the enemy team alone and is unable to get a solo pick, but not doing that is part of learning the tank.
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Jan 27, 2023 15:06
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Jack Trades posted:So what exactly is stopping the opponent's team from just ignoring the ball and killing the supports/dps that have all walked out of cover/used their mobility tools trying to follow the Ball? Ball CC and their own abilities. You don't have to burn fade to follow him in, you just need to be close enough to actually fight, then while you're fighting when you get challenged you burn your mobility to a safer spot but where you can still actually fight. Genji can dash and almost instant kill any target ball lands on with a right click melee after, tracer has more mobility than she can feasibly use during a single engagement, lucio has infinite mobility. Like, they just protect themselves while ball tries to hammer the gently caress out of their team. You don't get 5 people going "lol gently caress ball" below contenders anyway. You also can't just ignore ball, even if you miss every shot, rolling through/slam/melee does 180 damage
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Jan 27, 2023 15:28
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Ball is one of those heroes that probably doesn't belong in the game, unfortunately, if you wanted to balance it perfectly. The character is TOO different from every other character in the game to really fit a proper role, and with 1 less tank, it makes it even worse. Other heroes in this category include old Doom (maybe new doom BARELY fits in this category, but I must say they've made him fit better as a tank, even if DPS doom was "fun" to play), old Brig, and Widow. Special honorary mention to Sojourn and Ramattra's ults. These heroes will probably always feel odd and frustrating to play against/with depending on the game and your team. They are always fun for the person playing them and miserable for 5, if not 9 other players in the game. What are you gonna do? The blizz devs want to add genre-confused nonsense in the game to give it identity, but in reality it's hard to tell if the game would be better or worse if these heroes were gone entirely or completely reworked in all aspects. BabyRyoga fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jan 27, 2023 |
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Jan 27, 2023 18:23
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Bad players dislike Wrecking Ball because they don't know how to play with him (pressing W) and low-aim supports waste their time trying to snipe him across the room instead of waiting for him to come park next to him. For the rest of you: we remember when every support hated Ball because he was murdering them without recourse and running off, right? That's why they have to nerf him out of meta any time he's good.
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Jan 27, 2023 19:56
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Ball is absolutely a tank, a tanks job is to demand attention and kill fuckers who aren't doing that. Ball is absolutely fantastic at that. The idea that a tank needs to just be a solid point has never really existed since Winston was meta.
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Jan 27, 2023 20:20
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dogstile posted:Ball is absolutely a tank, a tanks job is to demand attention and kill fuckers who aren't doing that. I totally agree, but I think there is still a big difference between winston and ball. Winston plays in sight of his team, parks a shield for a bit and then jumps back to team. It is still a rally point that you can see and easily time.
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Jan 27, 2023 20:36
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Oh I'm not saying they're the same, I'm saying they they're not your traditional tanky tanks. Winston's actually kinda flimsy, but he's a tank.
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Jan 27, 2023 20:49
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In terms of difficulty to play around, I'd say ball is in his own tier. He can easily leave his team tankless and exposed. He can fake an engagement trying to get enemies to chase him. He can go on a 30 second healthpack hunt while his team is getting trigger happy and peaking. Other tanks don't do that except for the flankiest hog. Even doom is more predictable. Predictability is as much of an asset in low level play as it is a detriment in high level play. You have to assume people are W+M1ing and they have to be herded in the right direction. e: Of course a good ball is going to account for all those things and expose those weaknesses in the other team and climb right outta there. headcase fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Jan 27, 2023 |
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Jan 27, 2023 21:00
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Ball feels like he's at or near the top of the game when it comes to just disrupting enemies. Which, disrupting formation is more of a DPS thing (what I would argue the old "attack" class was), but his ability to get in, ult, and get the hell out without dying is a tool no DPS can really match. Dropping a minefield on a cart means you're going to be able to move that drat cart now, and there's almost nothing the other team can do to stop it.
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Jan 27, 2023 21:38
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In Overwatch 1 as a Mercy main I quite liked flying between Ball and my team, it was like a forward version of Widow, where if I stayed aware of their positioning I could link with them and use them for my own mobility but I had to be careful of becoming stranded. With 1 tank in the team it's just not fun though. Then it's like I'm the tank, even more than before.
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Jan 27, 2023 22:16
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I realize this would probably make him waaaaay too easy, but the only buff I’d want for Ball is just let him Slam after doing a regular jump. You could even make it that the higher you’re in the air, the greater the damage or AoE of the slam, maxing out at the current damage and AoE. It would definitely smooth out the learning curve and mostly buff low rank.
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Jan 27, 2023 23:51
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ball's kit is fine imo and just needs numbers tweaked ball has to be balanced for situations where teammates are actually coordinated and pick heros that complement his dive alpha strike otherwise he will get out of hand. this means he will be underwhelming in situations where he dives completely alone with zero supplementary dps and the enemy tank just walks into ball's squishies
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Jan 28, 2023 02:29
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dogstile posted:Ball is absolutely a tank, a tanks job is to demand attention and kill fuckers who aren't doing that. I'd argue current Doom is very similar to an alternate version of Winston. Ball is just, different. Sure, the thing that probably best describes him when you only have 3 roles is tank, but the way he plays is just so different that it seems like, at times there is a fundamental mismatch with the way you would play a PVP shooter. The even bigger problem is the lack of synergy with players that aren't on the same page that he brings to the table. It's like playing old techies in Dota 2; the character changes the way the game is played more than the other characters, so it leads to chaos and scenarios where either team can potentially be unhappyy. I'm personally ok with ball, tbh, i'm just echoing what i've seen and heard and coming to an opinion on how he fits into the game based on that. I think Widow is really the much bigger "get this bitch the gently caress out of the game" hero.
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Jan 28, 2023 04:13
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doom/winston/ball fill a similar archetype imo ball is more on the CC + unkillable side of the spectrum sojourn is way way worse than widow ever was. you don't change the way you play vs sojourn like you do with a widow b/c sojourn's kit is so busted without the needed 1-shot hero downsides you can't change the way you play against her lol
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Jan 28, 2023 04:28
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Fix Sojourn: 1) Take away her quake railgun secondary fire 2) Make her E energy ball her secondary fire instead 3) When she fills her ult meter she gets ONE railgun shot. That's it. Let it penetrate an infinite number of targets again, give it 100% damage, doesn't matter, she only gets one. 4) If she fires her railgun into her E energy ball it makes a big explosion Congratulations she is now an Unreal Tournament character instead of a Quake 3 character and it would stop stuff like this: https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ApprehensivePoliteFulmar-mobile.mp4 Assepoester fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Jan 28, 2023 |
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Jan 28, 2023 04:47
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soldier but his rocket is hitscan and headshots, his shift makes him even faster and leaps to high ground, and his ult is a low cooldown rocket
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Jan 28, 2023 05:01
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I'm glad I haven't run into these good Balls it must be hard to play him on a controller or something but I'm able to usually take care of him as a support. Now, the Mercy that rezs him every time I do because I have to reload some time, well,
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Jan 28, 2023 05:04
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pre-nerf roadhog had way more one-shot counterplay and warning than sojourn which makes the situation of completely dumpstering hog funnier. it feels like you got outplayed when a hog got a pick rather than vs sojourn. I think the thing that makes sojourn hitscan one-shot so busted is you can't trade map control like you can vs widow to force more favorable engagements or have counter-picks. you're just forced to fight and constantly eat the one-shot threat off cooldown. the most you can do is don't let her charge or get a pick pre-fight.
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Jan 28, 2023 05:09
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comedyblissoption posted:soldier but his rocket is hitscan and headshots, his shift makes him even faster and leaps to high ground, and his ult is a low cooldown rocket i still think sojourn was initially a soldier rework that ultimately was split off into a whole new character
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Jan 28, 2023 05:21
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reminder that overwatch 2 has a tremendous financial incentive w/ character unlocks that wasnt there before to make sure they are busted upon release and then have to tune them down later lol
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Jan 28, 2023 05:34
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there is assuredly a bean counter metric that measures success by number of people buying the character unlock
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Jan 28, 2023 05:36
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F.D. Signifier posted:Fix Sojourn: Can we make her E into something that can catch and redirect a bullet/railgun shot, like it sorta ricochets off of it and either splits into two shots or a multi-hit single shot
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Jan 28, 2023 06:00
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comedyblissoption posted:reminder that overwatch 2 has a tremendous financial incentive w/ character unlocks that wasnt there before to make sure they are busted upon release and then have to tune them down later lol this is true but also Rammatra is fine apart from his ult
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Jan 28, 2023 08:43
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:this is true but also Rammatra is fine apart from his ult And there's always junker queen.
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Jan 29, 2023 02:39
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https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/overwatch/23910162/developer-update-from-aaron-kellerquote:The new Ranked mode suffered from poor comprehension. There was confusion around players’ real rank and how that translated to their skill level, difficulty forming groups with friends, and a negative impression of the matchmaker when players of different ranks were put in the same match (even if their skill levels were similar). We will be implementing some changes in S3 and quite a few more in S4 all aimed at creating more clarity in the system. More details on short-term changes and long-term vision will be coming soonTM. Can't help but notice that they're saying that they're planning on improving the "clarity" of the matchmaker, not that they're planning on improving the matchmaker. Also changing ult refund to 25% is going to do literally nothing to solve the problem of Tank players having to rock-paper-scissors each other because they're both the most important role piloting purposefully overpowered characters. Jack Trades fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jan 30, 2023 |
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Jan 30, 2023 19:22
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