Games Industry News and Discussion

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immoral_: Oct 21, 2007; So fresh and so clean.; Young Orc

Evil Kit posted:

The dev is noted to have worked slot machines and such, and the why the treasure opening animations work is literally drawn from that lol. VS uses a lot of the tricks of that industry.

But it's only $3 and no micro transactions so.

It's now $4.99, plus a $1.99 DLC, but still more bang for your buck than most AAA games released in the last decade or so.

# ? Jan 21, 2023 08:12

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 14:42

Ayndin: Mar 13, 2010

I had initially misread the part about it being the dev who had worked on a lot machines as the game being about slot machines and thought it was talking about Luck Be a Landlord. That made some sense because it�s a pretty fun game, but it came out in 2020 so I wasn�t sure why it�s be up for goty now.

# ? Jan 23, 2023 23:26

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1617647012903784463

# ? Jan 23, 2023 23:46

RPATDO_LAMD: Mar 22, 2013; 🐘🪠🍆

paywalled, so:

Jason Schreier posted:

A manager at video game developer Blizzard Entertainment said he was ousted after refusing to give a low evaluation to an employee that he felt didn�t deserve it in order to fill a quota.
In 2021, Blizzard, a unit of Activision Blizzard Inc., implemented a process called stack ranking, in which employees are ranked on a bell curve and managers must give low ratings to a certain percentage of staff, according to people familiar with the change who asked not to be named discussing a private matter. Managers were expected to give a poor �developing� status to roughly 5% of employees on their teams, which would lower their profit-sharing bonus money and could hamper them from receiving raises or promotions in the near future at the Irvine, California-based company, known for games like Overwatch and World of Warcraft.
Brian Birmingham, who was the co-lead developer of World of Warcraft Classic, wrote an email to staff last week to express his frustration with this system. He wrote that he and other managers on the World of Warcraft team had been able to circumvent or skip filling the quota for the last two years and that he believed the mandate had been dropped or wasn�t strictly enforced. But recently, Birmingham said, he was forced to lower an employee from the average �successful� rating to �developing� in order to hit the quota.
�When team leads asked why we had to do this, World of Warcraft directors explained that while they did not agree, the reasons given by executive leadership were that it was important to squeeze the bottom-most performers as a way to make sure everybody continues to grow,� Birmingham wrote in the email, which was reviewed by Bloomberg. �This sort of policy encourages competition between employees, sabotage of one another�s work, a desire for people to find low-performing teams that they can be the best-performing worker on, and ultimately erodes trust and destroys creativity.�
Birmingham wrote that he refused to work at Blizzard until the company removed this stack ranking policy. �If this policy can be reversed, perhaps my Blizzard can still be saved, and if so I would love to continue working there,� Birmingham wrote. �If this policy cannot be reversed, then the Blizzard Entertainment I want to work for doesn�t exist anymore, and I�ll have to find somewhere else to work.�
Before he sent the email, Birmingham told a large group of colleagues he was resigning. He said he was then called by an HR representative to confirm his resignation and he told them that he was still considering it but that he would not work until the policy was retracted. He was then terminated, according to the email. Birmingham didn�t respond to a request for comment.
A Blizzard spokesperson said the company's employee evaluation process was designed to facilitate "excellence in performance" and "ensure employees who don't meet performance expectations receive more honest feedback, differentiated compensation, and a plan on how best to improve their own performance." The spokesperson added that the evaluation process involves conversations with multiple managers "and sometimes ratings move up or down based on those discussions."
Stack ranking, which first gained widespread popularity after it was brought to General Electric Co. by then-Chief Executive Officer Jack Welch in the 1980s, is used at several tech companies including Amazon.com Inc. The process, often criticized for pitting employees against one another and for facilitating toxic environments, has become less popular over the last decade. Microsoft Corp., which plans to acquire Activision Blizzard for $69 billion pending regulatory review, put an end to its own stack-ranking program in 2013.
In recent years, Blizzard�s corporate overseers at Activision have taken a larger role in operations, pushing the company to cut costs and produce games more quickly.
In the email, Birmingham said he had been asked to keep the process secret but that he had refused. �We were asked to keep it confidential because it was an ongoing discussion, and we don�t want Activision executives to make things even worse,� he wrote. �That threat of retaliation cannot be allowed to motivate our actions. Even if that�s legal, it�s certainly not ethical, and I cannot support it.�
Birmingham wrote that several directors and leads on the World of Warcraft team had asked if they could be given �developing� ranks instead of their employees but were told that it wasn�t an option.

It sounds like the stack ranking bullshit was a technically-on-the-books policy for years but management just started actually enforcing it again which is what triggered this.

# ? Jan 23, 2023 23:55

The Bee: Nov 25, 2012; Making his way to the ring . . .
from Deep in the Jungle . . .

The Big Monkey!

"It is this guy's turn to be the worst performing Blizzard employee."

# ? Jan 24, 2023 00:04

Bucnasti: Aug 14, 2012; I'll Fetch My Sarcasm Robes

The Bee posted:

"It is this guy's turn to be the worst performing Blizzard employee."

When I was at MS in the early 2000's we each took turns being the guy on the team with a mere 3.0 (out of 5) performance rating. It was stupid, the entire review process was theater.

# ? Jan 24, 2023 01:05

Doom Rooster: Sep 3, 2008; Pillbug

Hell we were stack ranking for years at Blizzard CS, still through when I left.

It was a hilarious disaster after the first round. We did our first stack ranking and it went okay because we had a ton of low performers.

We then used the stack rank for schedule choice priority. The vast majority of top ranks chose day shift, and most of the overnights were filled out with the bottom performers.

So, the next stack rank forced a ton of top performers to be ranked at the bottom of their shift, giving them low schedule priority, screwing their (mediocre at the best of times) raises and profit sharing.

# ? Jan 24, 2023 02:09

ColdPie: Jun 9, 2006

"Birmingham wrote that several directors and leads on the World of Warcraft team had asked if they could be given �developing� ranks instead of their employees "

Lol. I love those kinds workarounds. Good effort on that manager, hope he finds a less lovely place to work and takes some of his team along.

# ? Jan 24, 2023 13:16

Catgirl Al Capone: Dec 15, 2007

Evil Kit posted:

The dev is noted to have worked slot machines and such, and the why the treasure opening animations work is literally drawn from that lol. VS uses a lot of the tricks of that industry.

But it's only $3 and no micro transactions so.

i kinda wonder if non-predatory games like VS can function as the equivalent of nicotine patches for gambling addicts. probably only on a case-by-case basis if at all.

# ? Jan 24, 2023 13:30

leper khan: Dec 28, 2010; Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

Catgirl Al Capone posted:

i kinda wonder if non-predatory games like VS can function as the equivalent of nicotine patches for gambling addicts. probably only on a case-by-case basis if at all.

VS doesn't have baked in social elements. And if it did, they'd need some sort of content around that. From there it's harder to not monetize it.

# ? Jan 24, 2023 17:17

fez_machine: Nov 27, 2004

leper khan posted:

VS doesn't have baked in social elements. And if it did, they'd need some sort of content around that. From there it's harder to not monetize it.

The majority of gambling doesn't have a social aspect, namely, the pure skinner box slots.

# ? Jan 24, 2023 23:13

Shadowlyger: Nov 5, 2009; ElvUI super fan at your service!

Ask me any and all questions about UI customization via PM

Brian himself has spoken out.

https://twitter.com/BrianBirming/status/1617688536983175168?t=Zo3rdE0exWD7d439W0ZECg&s=19

Long tweet thread, here's the whole thing.

Brian Birmingham posted:

"I wasn't intending to make this public, but apparently its in the news already, so I'd at least like to set the record straight. I am no longer an employee of Blizzard Entertainment, though I would return if allowed to, so that I could fight the stack-ranking policy from inside. I'm told the forced stack-ranking policy is a directive that came from the ABK level, ABOVE Mike Ybarra. I don't know for sure, but I suspect it's true. Everybody at Blizzard I've spoken to about this, including my direct supervisors, expressed disappointment about this policy.

For those who don't know, "ABK" is the parent company formed when Activision Publishing expressed their interest in buying World of Warcraft from Vivendi in 2008. Blizzard's market value was enough that Activision Publishing could NOT buy it outright... Instead they arranged to form a new company called, "Activision Blizzard" which would own Activision Publishing and Vivendi's games division, including Blizzard Entertainment. Vivendi had >50% of the shares of "Activision Blizzard" at that time.

In creating "Activision Blizzard" they needed an executive, and Bobby Kotick, from Activision Publishing was selected as the new CEO of Activision Blizzard. Mike Morhaime, still President of Blizzard at that time, reported up to Bobby Kotick's staff at "Activision Blizzard"

Bobby and an investor group staged a "hostile takeover" meaning that they bought up more than 50% of Activision Blizzard shares. (There's no actual violence in a "hostile takeover" despite the name). I forget which year this happened, but it resulted in greater control.

Activision Blizzard then acquired "King" becoming "Activision Blizzard King," or "ABK." ABK was then a parent company of 3 different companies that they owned:
- Activision Publishing
- Blizzard Entertainment
- King

IIRC, the first year we were asked to meet a specific quota of "Developing" ratings was in the 2020 evaluations, across the winter of 2020/2021. IIRC this was also the first year they tried to unify the review/appraisal systems across all three child business units. Activision, Blizzard, and King all had *similar* appraisal processes by this point, and ABK wanted to unify them into one. Presumably this was the motivation for *enforcing* a 5% "developing" rating: to make it match in all 3 studios. I'm not defending this, only explaining.

We at Blizzard pushed back pretty hard in 2021, and I truly believed we had reversed the developing-quota policy. When the sexual harassment lawsuit was revealed later that year, we saw some change following that as well, and it felt like we could make an impact on ABK policies. The realization that there's still a minimum quota for "Developing," despite our objections and sternly worded letters leads me to believe I was operating under an illusion. I hope Blizzard's positive culture can overcome ABK's poison, but it isn't succeeding in doing that yet.

So having explained all that, I bear no ill will toward my former colleagues at Blizzard Entertainment. The Blizzard I knew and always wanted to work for is being torn apart by the executives at ABK, and it makes me sad. I truly respect the developers I worked with at Blizzard. I will still play Blizzard games; the developers at Blizzard are still amazing. Dragonflight and Wrath of the Lich King Classic are gems. Dragon Riding is amazing in Dragonflight, as is the Ulduar raid, and the new Titan Rune Dungeons in Wrath of the Lich King.

But ABK is a problematic parent company. They put us under pressure to deliver both expansions early. It is deeply unjust to follow that by depriving employees who worked on them their fair share of profit. The ABK team should be ashamed of themselves. I must stress that the above is *my best recollection* of events. It covers a lot of years, and human memory is notoriously imperfect. I do believe that the broad strokes are accurate:
- The "developing" quota is toxic
- It is an ABK policy
- It is being forced on Blizzard

I can't tell you whether to boycott Blizzard games or not. How best to express your displeasure is up to you. As I said above: I won't boycott. But I can't participate in a policy that lets ABK steal money from deserving employees, and I can't be made to lie about it either. And to wrap up I want to again clarify that I was surprised to see the Bloomberg article below. I did NOT provide them the email they're quoting from, but I believe the quotes are accurate. They have neither spoken to me nor reached out to me in any way."

# ? Jan 25, 2023 00:37

ColdPie: Jun 9, 2006

I know it can be hard for employees at lower levels to understand, but this information allows executives to make hard decisions in tough economic times. For example, if those 5% of employees are let go, then Bobby Kotick's next yacht can have two jacuzzis, instead of just one.

# ? Jan 25, 2023 09:30

Catgirl Al Capone: Dec 15, 2007

Noticed that the PMG for working at Valve just released:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9aCwCKgkLo

# ? Jan 25, 2023 15:06

fez_machine: Nov 27, 2004

Catgirl Al Capone posted:

Noticed that the PMG for working at Valve just released:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9aCwCKgkLo

I felt this over focused on Valve not making a statement during the height of BLM, rather than the more corrosive effects of allowing distinctly horrible games on its store or the proliferation of gambling sub-sites (which is what the video set itself to answer).

# ? Jan 25, 2023 23:33

Left 4 Bread: Oct 4, 2021; i sleep

woke kaczynski posted:

One thing I wish existed is an actually "good" fake version of these games for people with alzheimer's etc, that's another demographic taken advantage of disproportionately by these gambling mechanics.

Catgirl Al Capone posted:

i kinda wonder if non-predatory games like VS can function as the equivalent of nicotine patches for gambling addicts. probably only on a case-by-case basis if at all.

At one point in time I fell into doing some sort of personal research on gacha and lootboxes, particularly just to see firsthand how predatory some of this stuff could be. I'd heard as much and I'd seen as much from videos on the topic, but I'd never cognizantly been in the shoes of targeted party. I stuck purely to free-to-play games and didn't put any money into it, just to see how much the systems would try and push. Admittedly, I have one of the exact kinds of inclinations towards compulsive spending these "games" would hook onto and bleed me dry from, but luckily(?) I'm flat broke in regards to spending money most days of the month anyways. Going in with a good knowledge of the abusive tactics helped too, of course, (but the urge still arose a few times, disregarding how blatant the tactics can get.)

Mid-way through that experiment and even for a time after I'd ended it, I'd had the idea of a game that could scratch the itches these predatory money pits rely on but without any of it ever charging a cent. The eternal worry though, was even if it could end up helping some folks, it could just serve as the gateway drug of sorts for those not yet prone to gambling, compulsive spending, etc. Once they've exhausted the content of this prospective game, what stops some person from seeking a similar experience and falling into the gacha/lootbox hole as result? If you weren't mimicking the dopamine spikes and instead opted for a nicotine-patch like approach, you'd likely just have a thoroughly boring game fit only to kill time more actively than staring at the wall. At that point, why not just play a good, normal game?

I was never really able to reconcile that thought so I put the idea down and resolved it'd be best just make a decent game that's just fun instead. I'm no expert on psychology or the neuroscience of addiction, so maybe someone who does really know something about the subjects could say better on whether a thing would truly help or would exist as just a double edged sword.

...Although, I can't deny that a certain portion of the idea was spawned from my brain itself wanting the game to exist so that it could scratch the itch left behind by ending the experiment. The "daily routine grind + maybe vague PvP + collect appealing garbage like a magpie all turned up to 11" design really sucks in an addictive personality like mine and I hate it. I'll be honest, the one game that kept it's hooks in me the longest really only lost me because a server merge happened and I couldn't really "keep up" as a F2P anymore. I had definitely been getting tired of it, but that made it easier to end what was no longer really an experiment.

Regardless, this kind of garbage predatory nonsense should've gotten stomped out long ago.

# ? Jan 26, 2023 02:12

RPATDO_LAMD: Mar 22, 2013; 🐘🪠🍆

Odd Wilson posted:

The "daily routine grind + maybe vague PvP + collect appealing garbage like a magpie all turned up to 11" design really sucks in an addictive personality like mine and I hate it.

There are many non-gacha "games as a service" that lean on this same addictive loop, notably paid MMOs like WoW but also some f2p-but-gambling-free games like Destiny.

# ? Jan 26, 2023 04:05

Sab Sabbington: Sep 18, 2016; In my restless dreams I see that town...

Flagstaff, Arizona

fez_machine posted:

I felt this over focused on Valve not making a statement during the height of BLM, rather than the more corrosive effects of allowing distinctly horrible games on its store or the proliferation of gambling sub-sites (which is what the video set itself to answer).

This is part 2 following their previous video which was all about the issue of gambling, primarily in Valve's games. If you mean there's still not enough info with that context, then I'm not sure how much more can be said, though I'd love more.

# ? Jan 26, 2023 04:15

LIVE AMMO COSPLAY: Feb 3, 2006

RPATDO_LAMD posted:

There are many non-gacha "games as a service" that lean on this same addictive loop, notably paid MMOs like WoW but also some f2p-but-gambling-free games like Destiny.

God Of War just made a big deal out of min-maxing feedback loops (and they definitely aren't alone there). Vampire Survivors is not some scary new level of engagement

# ? Jan 26, 2023 06:17

fez_machine: Nov 27, 2004

Sab Sabbington posted:

This is part 2 following their previous video which was all about the issue of gambling, primarily in Valve's games. If you mean there's still not enough info with that context, then I'm not sure how much more can be said, though I'd love more.

It's the later, the first video was firmly from an outside Valve view. With all the interviews from ex and current employees I would have liked more info on the decision making about steam and its negative effects.

# ? Jan 26, 2023 08:17

Catgirl Al Capone: Dec 15, 2007

fez_machine posted:

It's the later, the first video was firmly from an outside Valve view. With all the interviews from ex and current employees I would have liked more info on the decision making about steam and its negative effects.

as stated in the video Valve is absurdly secretive so all the material that they have to go off is what employees and ex-employees are willing and able to say.

# ? Jan 26, 2023 14:05

Left 4 Bread: Oct 4, 2021; i sleep

RPATDO_LAMD posted:

There are many non-gacha "games as a service" that lean on this same addictive loop, notably paid MMOs like WoW but also some f2p-but-gambling-free games like Destiny.

Yeah, this is true. It is just the GaaS design method in action.

I grew up with WoW in the TBC - Cata era, and it's probably why I'm a sucker for said loop. Although for me, it was pretty low reward almost the entire time- stalling content to get your subscription money rather than trying to rip money constantly with the temptation of the next big high. I haven't checked in with WoW since early Legion (still a never-ending grind with pitiful reward), so I've no idea if they've gone and stepped it up into predatory design. I think they saved that for Diablo Immoral. I can't say anything for Destiny: it completely failed to hook me, I don't know if it was a lessened interest in FPS games at the time or already gained predisposition against lootboxes themselves, but it was unrewarding as hell.

GaaS definitely leans on that loop though, they just don't apply it nearly as aggressively and destructively from what I've seen. AAA industry has been trying to chase the "forever game" since Ultima Online proved it could be profitable. The difference in effort to potential dopamine hit gained is the important part. The gacha/lootbox/slot machines are basically handing you dopamine injections where past the initial hit, the vast majority will be placebo in content as it frictionlessly removes dollars from your wallet all while obfuscating the means of doing so. So while I dislike GaaS too, the ineffectually restricted digital gambling fronts that employ it to prey on the vulnerable to destructive levels currently earn more of my enmity.

That's not to say that GAAS can't be destructive in and of itself, even without microtransactions. It's just not something that can be easily regulated, whereas the explicitly predatory methods of digital gambling fronts, be it gacha, lootboxes, or literal slots, are something that can be reasonably caged. Pay-to-win GaaS only needs the aspect of gambling added to be no different than most mobile gacha garbage. Which is fitting, I suppose, given that P2W GaaS is really just its ancestor.

anyways, off to playing good games that aren't trying to own my life and only cost a single purchase

# ? Jan 26, 2023 17:07

Rarity: Oct 21, 2010; ~*4 LIFE*~

Ironically, the ActiBlizz studio Proletariat has dropped its push for a union vote

quote:

The Communications Workers of America (CWA) has dropped its request for a union vote at Activision Blizzard's Proletariat studio after accusing CEO Seth Sivak of "making a free and fair election impossible". In a statement released yesterday, the CWA accused Sivak of responding to the union push with "confrontational tactics" that "demoralized and disempowered the group," so the vote won't go ahead at all.

Dustin Yost, a software engineer at Proletariat and a member of the union organising committee, said in a statement that, although "the overwhelming majority" of his colleagues at the studio had signed cards in support of unionisation, the process "took its toll" on workers. Meetings in which the CWA claims Sivak "framed the conversation as a personal betrayal" apparently made the process too hard-going for employees to continue with.

Both Yost and the CWA negatively compared Proletariat to Microsoft Zenimax, asking why it was not possible for the Activision Blizzard-owned studio to "remain neutral, as Microsoft did at Zenimax" and allow "a free and fair process, without intimidation or manipulation by the employer".

When I reached out to Proletariat for comment on those claims, a spokesperson told me that the CWA withdrawal was an "acknowledgment that Proletariat workers didn�t actually want this," and that it validated "employees who spoke up about feeling pressured by the CWA�s campaign". Proletariat also told me it supported "confidential elections that include all affected workers and lets them vote in private, free from pressure and intimidation".

The spokesperson also said that the CWA's claims about Sivak were "totally false," and that the CEO was "responding to concerns from employees who felt pressured or intimidated by CWA and wanted more information about what joining a union could mean". The spokesperson claimed Sivak only acted to defend the right of employees to a private vote, so they "couldn't be targeted for their perspectives � like [Sivak] himself is being targeted by the CWA right now".

Regardless of how you interpret the story, it's worth remembering that some Proletariat employees�including Yost himself(opens in new tab)�have come out in the wake of the dropped bid to remind everyone that the studio "is full of folks with very complex [points of view]," so it's difficult to unilaterally ascribe a single set of opinions on the matter to the studio's workers as a whole. The organising committee has itself tweeted(opens in new tab) that its fiery comments reflect its own opinion, and not the broader stance of all Proletariat's workers.

Proletariat is Activision's first win in a union struggle in some time. The company lost two struggles at Raven and Blizzard Albany(opens in new tab) last year, with workers at both studios pushing for�and winning�votes to unionise despite Activision's best efforts. The company probably hopes that the failure of the Proletariat vote to get off the ground marks the point where 2022's wave of unionisations(opens in new tab) will break and roll back. I suspect Activision won't be so lucky.

Concluding his statement, Yost said that while the CWA was "withdrawing [its] union election petition today," he still believes that "a union is the best way for workers in our industry to ensure [their] voices are being heard". Proletariat, after all, has nothing to lose but its chains.

# ? Jan 27, 2023 14:23

Ofecks: May 4, 2009; A portly feline wizard waddles forth, muttering something about conjured food.

Odd Wilson posted:

I haven't checked in with WoW since early Legion (still a never-ending grind with pitiful reward), so I've no idea if they've gone and stepped it up into predatory design.

They absolutely did with Shadowlands, the previous expansion to the current one. Lots of little time-wasters were introduced, and they added up to a pretty significant annoyance. I mean, some of these things already existed since Legion, BfA, forever, etc., but they really doubled-down on it for SL. It's one of the reasons why I quit the game for good last year. However, I will say that for collectors and completionists, the game was pure solid gold, if you can stomach the other BS that comes along with it. Some of that isn't necessarily Blizz's fault, per se, where it has more to do with the format of being a MMO. If they ever take the game offline (as in, I see no other players within the game world unless I specifically consent, like in Diablo 3), remove the subscription fee, and make a host of other player-friendly changes, I'll consider coming back to it.

# ? Jan 27, 2023 18:29

Bucnasti: Aug 14, 2012; I'll Fetch My Sarcasm Robes

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/review-call-of-duty-modern-warfare-2-this-week-in-business

This is amazing, it reminds me of a Regular Cars Review video, they start off making fun of the people who drive the car and then slides into a dissertation on existential dread and the loss of the American dream.

quote:

What good is a 10-point scale if basically everything reviewed earns between a 7 and a 9?

To address this, we've decided to review games using a process called stack ranking. It basically grades on a curve, ensuring that the entire scale will be used because we're required to give out our highest grade to 5% of games, our lowest grade to 5% of games, and similar bands for every rating in between.

Modern Warfare 2 is the 20th mainline Call of Duty game on consoles, and looking through the entire archive of GamesIndustry.biz reviews, it appears that we have never given a single one of them our lowest score, 0 out of 10. So sorry Modern Warfare 2, but we've got a 5% quota to hit.

# ? Jan 27, 2023 23:50

foutre: Sep 4, 2011; RIP ZEEZ

^^ very good review, also very depressing...

Catgirl Al Capone posted:

as stated in the video Valve is absurdly secretive so all the material that they have to go off is what employees and ex-employees are willing and able to say.

Yeah, I imagine NDAs applied a lot more there than elsewhere. To me it confirmed that Valve would be a miserable place to work - it feels like they set the company up perfectly to promote a lot of the worst tendencies in the industry. It also imo explains a lot of why it's like pulling teeth to get Valve to meaningfully restrict things like gambling etc. - barring avoiding legal action, where's the incentive (or support) for any particular employee to push through something that hurts profits?

I realize there are some differences, but their set up also reminded me a lot more of Tencent's model than I would have thought. My impression from working with them a bit is that at Tencent you aren't tied to any particular project either, which in practice seems to incentive rent-seeking rather than really investing in any individual thing.

# ? Jan 28, 2023 00:10

BeanpolePeckerwood: May 4, 2004; I MAY LOOK LIKE SHIT BUT IM ALSO DUMB AS FUCK

Catgirl Al Capone posted:

Noticed that the PMG for working at Valve just released:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9aCwCKgkLo

Thanks for posting this.

# ? Jan 28, 2023 00:45

Strategic Tea: Sep 1, 2012

Doesn't Valve have a 'cutting edge' management structure where everyone works on whatever they want and are judged on the results?

Which to me sounds like an absolute joke; just a tech company fat off its monopoly position that can subsidize 90% of staff to waste time as long as 10% keep Steam online.

# ? Jan 28, 2023 14:59

stev: Jan 22, 2013; Please be excited.

Strategic Tea posted:

Doesn't Valve have a 'cutting edge' management structure where everyone works on whatever they want and are judged on the results?

Which to me sounds like an absolute joke; just a tech company fat off its monopoly position that can subsidize 90% of staff to waste time as long as 10% keep Steam online.

Yeah that's what the video's about.

# ? Jan 28, 2023 15:01

kliras: Mar 27, 2021

"flat" corporate hierarchies are the biggest red flag; i hope no one here will ever see a job posting featuring that and apply

# ? Jan 28, 2023 15:11

Bucnasti: Aug 14, 2012; I'll Fetch My Sarcasm Robes

Back when they published their employee manual that structure sounded like such a dream. Now that I'm leading projects and have a view of the entire process, I realize it's a nightmare.

# ? Jan 28, 2023 16:14

Fruits of the sea: Dec 1, 2010

I've seen presentations by two companies that operate with a flat management system. They appear to be doing quite well and without the scope creep or delays that Valve clearly suffers.

They made it very clear, repeatedly and with emphasis that a flat organization requires an incredibly specific and focused mission statement. Management was required to be very hands-on in regards to communicating the businesses' stated goals. Employees were free to work on projects and move about in the company as they wished but only in service to the mission statement.

Valve doesn't appear to do that at all, just a totally carefree approach to doing literally anything, whether it's experimental hardware, new storefront features that are mostly discarded/left stagnant or videogames (lol).

One commonality though is that all the businesses, including Valve, rely heavily on R&D. I think that's the largest benefit of a flat system. It allows different departments to interact with each other and share skillsets and ideas for improvement. That is... not something that happens easily or at all in a more stratified organization. (like MS' teams not talking to each other which is why the OS is a hodgepodge of new and old UI elements)

Of course they didn't talk about representation, hiring and salary processes so who knows if they are still dysfunctional on that level.

Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jan 28, 2023

# ? Jan 28, 2023 16:21

Catgirl Al Capone: Dec 15, 2007

valve's libertarian pseudo-flat structure has an entirely different character from flat worker cooperatives

# ? Jan 28, 2023 17:41

Sab Sabbington: Sep 18, 2016; In my restless dreams I see that town...

Flagstaff, Arizona

Flat structures in various businesses have become a red flag in the same vein as unlimited PTO or the hiring person saying they're not a team, they're a family during the interview process. Undoubtedly there are circumstances where that might be true and/or functional, but it makes me side-eye really loving hard and absolutely defaults to a big warning sign.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 02:42

cmdrk: Jun 10, 2013

if the power structures aren't explicit, they'll be implicit and that's worse.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 02:56

Mokinokaro: Sep 11, 2001; At the end of everything, hold onto anything; Fun Shoe

Pretty much. The vibe from ex employees at Valve is that it's basically Gaben's fiefdom where all the teams fight over getting him to support them.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 14:21

THE BAR: Oct 20, 2011; You know what might look better on your nose?

Mokinokaro posted:

Pretty much. The vibe from ex employees at Valve is that it's basically Gaben's fiefdom where all the teams fight over getting him to support them.

And he chooses to support nobody, seeing how their IPs are doing.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 14:26

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

Gaben is a distant and unknowable god

# ? Jan 29, 2023 14:33

THE BAR: Oct 20, 2011; You know what might look better on your nose?

I keep mistaking him for the Minecraft guy for some reason.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 14:35

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 14:42

Viewtiful Jew: Apr 21, 2007; Mench'n-a-go-go-baby!

Tankbuster posted:

Gaben is a distant and unknowable god

There was that interview he did like some months before Alyx was announced and launched where he saw Breath of the Wild winning awards and he said he felt a feeling like, "Man, I miss the feeling of winning awards."

That was what got Alyx moved into production, he missed that feeling where you win awards.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 20:50

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