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Only Kindness posted:Rolf Harris I've learned to separate the artist from the art, so now I can objectively appreciate his poo poo kangaroo sketches and wobble-board songs
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Jan 30, 2023 14:15
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Failed Imagineer posted:All I'm saying is that he's expressed problematic opinions and has been unwilling to hold himself accountable When asked to comment he said 'beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep'
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Jan 30, 2023 14:17
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Scampi is new labour, sweep is an anarchist who attends protests purely to bait cops and spoils his ballot writing in for count binface.
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Jan 30, 2023 14:19
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Failed Imagineer posted:I've learned to separate the artist from the art, so now I can objectively appreciate his poo poo kangaroo sketches and wobble-board songs
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Jan 30, 2023 14:22
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Speaking of jail, An Occasional Public Service Taxxe
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Jan 30, 2023 14:25
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The biggest crime is how boring Star Citizen has got. That thread was an endless riot of insane LOLs for several years. Now it’s just pathetic tedium
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Jan 30, 2023 14:34
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Yeah even the SA thread is boring now, it’s just devolved into people stalking one particular freak on Reddit and reposting all their dogshit takes about life and occasionally the game.
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Jan 30, 2023 14:35
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Oh that's who it was, I forgot about croberts
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Jan 30, 2023 14:35
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Just looked out the window to see someone cutting down a tree in my garden (poo poo bamboo tree so not worth anything but still pretty awful behaviour). Guy claimed he was doing it because of a fibre optic cable being passed through the branches, but I'm sure it's because the guy next door wants to put up a fence. Didn't think to discuss this with us in advance, I'm raging, my first suburban homeowner drama.
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Jan 30, 2023 14:41
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Failed Imagineer posted:We regret to inform you that Sooty is racist My cat's named Sooty (well Sotis), for reasons. 
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Jan 30, 2023 14:43
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keep punching joe posted:Just looked out the window to see someone cutting down a tree in my garden (poo poo bamboo tree so not worth anything but still pretty awful behaviour). Guy claimed he was doing it because of a fibre optic cable being passed through the branches, but I'm sure it's because the guy next door wants to put up a fence. Didn't think to discuss this with us in advance, I'm raging, my first suburban homeowner drama. tree law
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Jan 30, 2023 14:44
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Speaking about more political / leftist stuff. Been seeing more people sayign fascism has roots in socialism and marx and the like, and if you google it you mostly get right wing sites supporting said conclusion. Anyone know a good source to counter this? I don't know poo poo about the historical origins of that, or if it matters much since fascism has in practice always allied with the right.
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Jan 30, 2023 14:47
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His Divine Shadow posted:Speaking about more political / leftist stuff. Been seeing more people sayign fascism has roots in socialism and marx and the like, and if you google it you mostly get right wing sites supporting said conclusion. Anyone know a good source to counter this? I don't know poo poo about the historical origins of that, or if it matters much since fascism has in practice always allied with the right. Sounds like dogshit "these lefties are always telling you you can't do things, and Russia was authoritarian, and yet they say WE'RE the bad guys" takes tbh
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Jan 30, 2023 14:51
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It's just 'the left are the real fascists' bullshit cause you're not allowed to drop racial slurs any more
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Jan 30, 2023 14:52
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I guess you could say he made a... Clean Sweep.
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Jan 30, 2023 14:53
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keep punching joe posted:Just looked out the window to see someone cutting down a tree in my garden (poo poo bamboo tree so not worth anything but still pretty awful behaviour). Guy claimed he was doing it because of a fibre optic cable being passed through the branches, but I'm sure it's because the guy next door wants to put up a fence. Didn't think to discuss this with us in advance, I'm raging, my first suburban homeowner drama. cutting off some branches (i dont think bamboo trees even really have branches) or the whole thing? Don't stand for this. Reading this kind of stuff makes me furious.
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Jan 30, 2023 14:54
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keep punching joe posted:Just looked out the window to see someone cutting down a tree in my garden (poo poo bamboo tree so not worth anything but still pretty awful behaviour). Guy claimed he was doing it because of a fibre optic cable being passed through the branches, but I'm sure it's because the guy next door wants to put up a fence. Didn't think to discuss this with us in advance, I'm raging, my first suburban homeowner drama. I’ve got some Japanese knotweed cuttings if you want to ruin his day and garden
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Jan 30, 2023 14:56
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His Divine Shadow posted:Speaking about more political / leftist stuff. Been seeing more people sayign fascism has roots in socialism and marx and the like, and if you google it you mostly get right wing sites supporting said conclusion. Anyone know a good source to counter this? I don't know poo poo about the historical origins of that, or if it matters much since fascism has in practice always allied with the right. Historically fascists attempted to appeal to socialists, because socialism was the other big hip thing at the time in response to the excesses of capitalism, but fascism (and especially nazism) is primarily rooted in weird racial theories of the time and professes that all the different races in the world have to fight each other so that the best one can come out on top, and also generally specifies that "the jewish race" in particular has been working to undermine the success of the "worthy" races of the world and this can only be resolved by fighting a war against them as a people. There's very little to do with economics in it at all, I think strasserites are as close as you get to nazis with actual thoughts on economics but the overwhelming application of fascist government has been to conduct a race war to wipe out 1. jews and 2. communists, which they generally regard as the same thing called "judeo-bolshevism", basically the fascist mindset casts every bad thing in the world as being the result of a jewish conspiracy against the deserving races of the world and so you can't really separate their ideas on economics from that, such as they have them. And thus also their ideas on economics don't really make any sense because they're founded on so many nonsensical elements. And none of that has really anything to do with marxism. Comparing the two I think is like comparing apples and basking sharks, they are two fundamentally different ways of looking at the world and the only thing they have in common is that when the world is hosed up, people start looking for alternative explanations of how it works when the dominant ones fail to satisfy. They both grow in response to that but they're not at all alike. Marxists would say that the reason you're poor is because capitalism is a system that inherently trends towards the immiseration and exploitation of those without capital for the benefit of those with capital and that we must change the way we organize work and ownership to fix this. Fascists would say that the reason you're poor is because a big conspiracy of jews control everything and they are trying to keep your inherently superior aryan-ness suppressed and the only way to fix it is to kill all the jews and then all the aryans will be fine and that's how the world should be. It's fairytale logic. And it's also, worryingly, a way of thinking that you can see a lot of parallels with in the modern right wing. They love the idea that there is a conspiracy of inherently evil people who are the root of all the wrongs in the world, and that the evil people are probably aligned with some cosmic good and evil struggle. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jan 30, 2023 |
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Jan 30, 2023 14:56
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In Minecraft ofc
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Jan 30, 2023 14:56
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His Divine Shadow posted:Speaking about more political / leftist stuff. Been seeing more people sayign fascism has roots in socialism and marx and the like, and if you google it you mostly get right wing sites supporting said conclusion. Anyone know a good source to counter this? I don't know poo poo about the historical origins of that, or if it matters much since fascism has in practice always allied with the right. The Wikipedia article on the economy of Nazi Germany should comfortably put paid to that notion. Apart from anything else, they coined the term 'privatisation' to describe their selling off of state-run industries after the Great Depression. One of the central tenets of Nazism was that democracy should be abolished because it was an obstacle to capitalism and a gateway to socialism, which Hitler helpfully spelled out in one of his early speeches: quote:The month after being appointed Chancellor, Hitler made a personal appeal to German business leaders to help fund the Nazi Party for the crucial months that were to follow. He argued that the experience of Weimar Republic had shown that "'private enterprise cannot be maintained in the age of democracy.' Business was founded above all on the principles of personality and individual leadership. Democracy and liberalism led inevitably to Social Democracy and Communism." In the following weeks, the Nazi Party received contributions from seventeen different business groups, with the largest coming from IG Farben and Deutsche Bank. Many of these businesses continued to support Hitler even during the war and even profited from persecution of the Jews. The most infamous being firms like Krupp, IG Farben, and some large automobile manufacturers. Historian Adam Tooze writes that the leaders of German business were therefore "willing partners in the destruction of political pluralism in Germany." In exchange, owners and managers of German businesses were granted unprecedented powers to control their workforce, collective bargaining was abolished and wages were frozen at a relatively low level. Business profits also rose very rapidly, as did corporate investment.
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Jan 30, 2023 14:56
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There's not really a claim to oppose? Fascists have been anti-communist since Mussolini's little bundle of national action started up to campaign ifor Italy to gently caress with Australia in ww1. Opposing every movement that doesn't despise the existence of ethnic minorities as "communist" is one of the genuinely universal traits of fascist movements. If they mean "well Marxists think the government should do economics! And fascists also think that!" then that is one of those arguments where the speaker is either stupid or dishonest to such an extent that they can't/won't respond to basic facts and your time is better served going "lol what are you talking about, do you think NHS spending is communist and fascist? What's wrong with you"
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Jan 30, 2023 14:58
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Sanford posted:I’ve got some Japanese knotweed cuttings if you want to ruin his day and garden Knotweed which famously stays in your neighbour's garden and never spreads over to yours
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Jan 30, 2023 15:00
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The point of fascism I think really is to get people to reject economic explanations for their problems and instead to focus on magical thinking and weird ideas about the inherent difference and hierarchy of racial classification, which certainly has its roots in a lot of ideas that were floating around at the beginning of the 20th century and many of which have never quite gone away, just taken different forms with poo poo like the bell curve.
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Jan 30, 2023 15:06
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NotJustANumber99 posted:cutting off some branches (i dont think bamboo trees even really have branches) or the whole thing? Basically they've just lopped the whole top off from about 6 to 7 feet and above. It was partly overhanging his garden so technically I think it's allowed to to remove those, but the whole tops gone. The guy who is currently in putting up the fence was then in with a hacksaw to helpfully remove the 'stump' if you can call 6 foot of tree a stump. Told him to gently caress off and get the owner to come talk about it later. Maybe it's not bamboo, it looks like it, several long green trunks with leafy shoots coming off it.
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Jan 30, 2023 15:13
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Spangly A posted:There's not really a claim to oppose? Fascists have been anti-communist since Mussolini's little bundle of national action started up to campaign ifor Italy to gently caress with Australia in ww1. Opposing every movement that doesn't despise the existence of ethnic minorities as "communist" is one of the genuinely universal traits of fascist movements. I'd argue that it goes much further than that - fascism is deeply ideologically tied with capitalism, seeing the state as a means of supporting and rewarding social-Darwinist competition both economic and social. The Nazis in particular were extremely serious about their conflation of Judaism and communism, with free-market competition being what they considered to be the ideal way to prove Aryan supremacy and let the untermensch wither and die without state coddling.
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Jan 30, 2023 15:13
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OwlFancier posted:Historically fascists attempted to appeal to socialists, because socialism was the other big hip thing at the time in response to the excesses of capitalism, but fascism (and especially nazism) is primarily rooted in weird racial theories of the time and professes that all the different races in the world have to fight each other so that the best one can come out on top, and also generally specifies that "the jewish race" in particular has been working to undermine the success of the "worthy" races of the world and this can only be resolved by fighting a war against them as a people. Thanks this was a good explanation.
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Jan 30, 2023 15:17
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OwlFancier posted:The point of fascism I think really is to get people to reject economic explanations for their problems and instead to focus on magical thinking and weird ideas about the inherent difference and hierarchy of racial classification, which certainly has its roots in a lot of ideas that were floating around at the beginning of the 20th century and many of which have never quite gone away, just taken different forms with poo poo like the bell curve. Nope, they went all-in on tying the racial to the economic. Remember that fascism was chiefly a militant middle-class reaction to an underclass rising in power and influence - they wanted to reasssert that the poor were naturally poor because they were subhuman, and that their demands for equality should be violently suppressed.
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Jan 30, 2023 15:17
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Yeah to the extent they do have economic thoughts it is promotion of things they can tie into the cult of competition and hierarchy. I don't know how they would fare in the long term (lol at the idea of long term fascism not imploding) but yes they will often get on well with capitalism immediately, insofar as it exalts the idea of the worthy and unworthy. Though obviously their racial theories come before any notion of capitalist success, if you're the wrong type of person you can't be allowed to succeed under capitalism. Which I suppose if you have the right kind of brain spiders could be thought of as dangerously socialist interference with the market.
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Jan 30, 2023 |
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Jan 30, 2023 15:18
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Spangly A posted:There's not really a claim to oppose? Fascists have been anti-communist since Mussolini's little bundle of national action started up to campaign ifor Italy to gently caress with Australia in ww1. Opposing every movement that doesn't despise the existence of ethnic minorities as "communist" is one of the genuinely universal traits of fascist movements. They where trying to reach into the obscure depths of history and conflate the origin of fascism and socialism as coming from the same place (same poo poo different name, not like our pure capitalism) and I wasn't really sure how to respond to to that.
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Jan 30, 2023 15:21
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Failed Imagineer posted:I've learned to separate the artist from the art, so now I can objectively appreciate his poo poo kangaroo sketches and wobble-board songs *jury walking in to deliver their verdict* "Can we tell what it is yet?" *jury all storm out looking furious in order to add some more unanimous guilty verdicts*
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Jan 30, 2023 15:21
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OwlFancier posted:Yeah to the extent they do have economic thoughts it is promotion of things they can tie into the cult of competition and hierarchy. I don't know how they would fare in the long term (lol at the idea of long term fascism not imploding) but yes they will often get on well with capitalism immediately, insofar as it exalts the idea of the worthy and unworthy. Though obviously their racial theories come before any notion of capitalist success, if you're the wrong type of person you can't be allowed to succeed under capitalism. Which I suppose if you have the right kind of brain spiders could be thought of as dangerously socialist interference with the market. The Nazis helpfully spelled out that that was exactly what they thought was the explanation for rich Jews - Judeo-Bolshevism was rigging the free market to give them an unfair advantage against hard-working Aryans. Their economic ideology (despite their protestations that they didn't have one) was quite coherent. It was just insane and gratuitously sadistic.
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Jan 30, 2023 15:21
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The reason I think they are not primarily economically focused is that I find the idea of racial conflict being the primary motivator, a thing that a lot of people today find harder to understand. Today, of course, capitalism is frequently institutionally racist, and racists can be capitalists, but generally racism is useful to capitalism because it allows greater exploitation of the working class. The racism is there and very real, but it's sort of secondary to the real point of making shitloads of money. So you hear people looking at the second world war and saying things like "why did they waste all that effort on exterminating people? Wouldn't it be better to enslave them and use them to fuel the war effort" or similar sentiments (they did do that as well of course). And fundamentally I think that's the difference, people look at the genocide and struggle to understand that that was the point. That they would willingly plunge the country into war, would divert materiel from that war to conduct wholescale slaughter of people, and when they started to lose the national conflicts, would only increase the desperation and allocation of resources to accelerate their war against humanity itself. That, I think, is the difference between being economically motivated politics and fascism, in the modern day we are so utterly immersed in the idea of economic motivation that people really struggle to grasp that behaviour. I think we might be broadly describing the same thing although I am probably struggling to articulate it. They do have ideas, I guess, about the economy, but I struggle to call them economic ideas if you get me? Like it's not economics it's insane magical race theories applied to the economy. Especially contrasting with marx whose entire thing is looking at the economy and material worker/employer relationships and what that means for us. Completely different ways of looking at the world, storybooks vs science. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Jan 30, 2023 |
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Jan 30, 2023 15:27
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stev posted:That sucks. I'm starting to think I have an allergy to them, since recently it's set off my asthma every time I've cleaned out the pig cage. It's unfortunately common to develop allergies if you have frequent contact with rodents, you become more sensitised over time. I worked with some biologists for a while who did experiments with rats, and basically every one of them would be horribly allergic to the animals within a year or so of starting to work with them. They'd all come in to work every day and spend the whole time in the lab red-eyed and sniffling.
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Jan 30, 2023 15:28
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there's a swathe of liberals for whom the Corbyn/Sanders period led them to think they are further left than they really are, and then subsequent current events have made latent campist tendencies in the left somewhat louder than usual. Especially in the UK, these tendencies had silenced themselves during the Brexit/Corbyn period but are now emerging again. at the same time, leading alt-rightists are embracing those same points in social media so there's chatter by people who suddenly rediscover that red-brown dynamics can exist, or have historically existed, rather than just taking the left's claims to be the antithesis of the right for granted. To be clear, I don't think campism is a dominant strain in the Western left today, but campists are certainly loud on social media on that tangent - a couple days ago I went down an interesting thread on pre-Bolshevik communism - typically SPD support for war credits is pinned on Kautsky, as a point jointly endorsed by Bolsheviks and Luxembourgists - but here is Engels himself in 1892 explaining why German socialists should fight for Germany: quote:But the German socialist party, thanks to the efforts and the unceasing sacrifices of more than thirty years, has attained a position that none of the other socialist parties in Europe occupies: a position which guarantees it political power in a short while. Socialist Germany occupies in the international working-class movement the most advanced, the most honourable and the most responsible outpost; it is its duty to defend this outpost against all. because, in the main: the tsarist hordes of Russia. How the worm turns.
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Jan 30, 2023 15:29
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I think that it's more that the Nazis didn't really see a distinction. Their economic theory was their racial theory, and vice versa. They were true believers in both parts because they saw them as a coherent whole. Of course capitalism is sensible and righteous if you believe in the innate superiority and inferiority of certain human beings, and of course racism and other bigotries start making more sense if you accept the moral case for capitalism.
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Jan 30, 2023 15:32
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ronya posted:because, in the main: the tsarist hordes of Russia. How the worm turns. ahh, Russia, always the villain, never the bride
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Jan 30, 2023 15:34
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Darth Walrus posted:I think that it's more that the Nazis didn't really see a distinction. Their economic theory was their racial theory, and vice versa. They were true believers in both parts because they saw them as a coherent whole. Of course capitalism is sensible and righteous if you believe in the innate superiority and inferiority of certain human beings, and of course racism and other bigotries start making more sense if you accept the moral case for capitalism. I suppose the difficulty is I don't really have a concept of economics that isn't basically marxist, the idea that you look at the material, provable relations between real things and work from there. But of course historically people have had a lot of other conceptions of how the world works and I guess those are also thought of as economics. The storybook understanding of the world is the most worrying part honestly, because you see it a lot today, very much among the right. I think if anything it's the biggest unifying factor among them. I think it's also the most dangerous appeal of fascism, that it does often aspire to something other than just money making. It has a mythology behind it and a goal, dreams of building something huge, it's just that it aims to do that atop the bones of billions. And a lot of people are willing to bet they'll be the ones standing, or would happily die if they thought it was in service of that goal. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Jan 30, 2023 |
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Jan 30, 2023 15:37
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Failed Imagineer posted:Knotweed which famously stays in your neighbour's garden and never spreads over to yours We've got some spreading from a rural pumping station near us and the government is refusing to treat anything that has spread beyond the bounds of the pumping station. Because presumably beyond there the rule of law no longer applies.
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Jan 30, 2023 15:47
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stev posted:That sucks. I'm starting to think I have an allergy to them, since recently it's set off my asthma every time I've cleaned out the pig cage. I had a while where I got pretty wheezy every time I gave the pigs hay or cleaned them out, it went away when I generally improved the quality of air I was getting by not taking the tube twice a day.
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Jan 30, 2023 15:56
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His Divine Shadow posted:Been seeing more people sayign fascism has roots in socialism and marx and the like, and if you google it you mostly get right wing sites supporting said conclusion. OwlFancier posted:I think it's also the most dangerous appeal of fascism, that it does often aspire to something other than just money making. The most dangerous thing about fascism is it's ability to present simple solutions to complex problems, to people too stupid to realise why it wouldn't work. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Jan 30, 2023 |
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Jan 30, 2023 15:58
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