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Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...


Mate you don't need to peace out, just admit you hosed up (or mea culpa, if you wanna stick to a specific tone, i guess), which you've already done and move on. Every poster here has had a poo poo opinion or two. Hell, most of these degenerates like chocolate oranges! You'll sometimes get abuse for saying lovely things, but that doesn't mean we all hate you and want you dead or whatever, it just means you hosed up. As long as you're not consistently terrible and unwilling to change, the thread won't tell you to gently caress off completely. I've been told i'm a loving idiot multiple times ITT but I know they all love me, really.

If you're getting "piled on" by people who you recognise hold broadly correct opinions, maybe ask yourself why that is instead of doing the seymour skinner special, eh?

alternatively: this isn't an airport and you're not a plane - there's no reason to announce your departure.

Miftan fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Jan 31, 2023

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Deketh
Feb 26, 2006
That's a nice fucking fish

EmptyVessel posted:

I'll not bother the thread again.
I still love you all unconditionally.
Good luck and god bless.
And out.

Keep on posting imo, I've enjoyed your rambles

Jakabite
Jul 31, 2010

EmptyVessel posted:

No idea if anyone else has piled on.
Only answering this because it deserved a reply.

I was not sniping at others. That throw away line was basically thinking aloud. I was not parading you around. I was genuinely grateful to be engaged with and challenged. I strive to improve but can't learn anything if simply told to gently caress off and stew in my own juice.
I absolutely do not think that everyone here is a closed-minded idiot. The vast majority are interesting and/or funny and cool.

Yes, overly simplistic and absolutely wrong if presented as an academic thesis or serious point of debate.
No one else here ever posts in overly simplistic broad-brush terms?
Again, I'd explicitly identified the statement as pedantic quibbling. Not serious argument.

FFS.
So you ignored my "E; Correcting my loving stupid incorrect use of terminology. Godammit!
Left as struck to expose my shame. gently caress, I'm sorry. " then.
It was a very stupid, and very bad error on my part that I was absolutely mortified at when I saw it. I corrected it, without trying to hide my shame, and apologised.
Back in the 80s most people used transexual not transgender - see "Man Enough To Be A Woman" and then Wayne later Jayne County's lyric "I've got a transexual feeling". Take it up with her. I'd love to hear her reply. I was simply defaulting to how we talked back then.
Again, I.Am.loving.Sorry.
I obviously know that you are fully aware of the differences between transvestite and transgender. Hence the use of the smiley.

Okay and acknowledged. I will strive to consider better ways of expressing the point in the unlikely case that I ever return to it elsewhere.
I genuinely do not think in terms of vertical heirarchies, I only acknowledge horizontal ranges of difference with no sense of implicit superiority of one over another. Obviously I cannot communicate this well so I wont try.

I nowhere said that I was discussing a representative sample. I like everyone can only speak to my own experience. I doubt anyone not actively researching or campaigning in this area, or any other, could claim to have deep personal knowledge of a fully representative sample of cases. You are entirely free to disagree, and you may very well have such knowledge.

I do not see it as patronising to point out that the historical situation is not the current situation. To think otherwise is mind boggling. I wish Sleazy was still alive so he could weigh in on your criticism of his view.
Trans experience was absolutely different back in the past.
See Wendy Carlos's comment on coming out: "The public turned out to be amazingly tolerant or, if you wish, indifferent [...] There had never been any need of this charade to have taken place. It had proven a monstrous waste of years of my life."
I am sure you would agree that that is not the even close to the horror of trans experience these days.

Yeah, I was feeling overly attacked and dismissed and misspoke. Sorry.

Re: Josef bugman taking me to task for using "Correct Thought" this is a term that I never ever use and first encountered in widespread (if possibly ironic) use in previous incarnations of this very thread. It always made me uncomfortable tbh. Thought the scarequotes would have made clear that I was not using it seriously. Oh well.
gently caress me and the horse I rode in on, I guess. *jk*
Re: It's your job to edit down posts to easily digestable word-nuggets.
Oh I did spend hours...

Apologies again for my patently shoddy attempts at a discussion.
This is an area that I have very strong feelings about and I hurt for all those currently suffering the cruel and unusual treatment that seems to have become socially acceptable. The internet as a vector for utterly barbaric abuse is a horrible, horrible thing that I certainly don't fully appreciate because I'm old and I do not Twitter or the like. Even if I did I would not be a target. My secondhand awareness is clearly not enough - my daughter has shared her personal experiences of online and real world abuse - but a spectator can never truly understand the full pain. I know that much of my thinking is necessarily not up-to-date and genuinely want to improve. I can but try.

I'll not bother the thread again.
I still love you all unconditionally.
Good luck and god bless.
And out.

I enjoyed your posts, don’t leave!

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Masks can help protect the wearer, if it's a barrier one way, it's also a barrier the other.

I don't understand where this 'masks don't protect the wearer' idea comes from.

I do understand that if you are infected, not spreading your lung gunk around other people is more helpful to them than not wearing a mask, than helpful for you - the mask wearer - being surrounded by 10 unmasked infected lung gunk sharers, but it does offer a modicum of protection more than not being masked. And obviously quality of mask & fit also add further variation to the amount of protection.

Yes it's not 100% protection (the argument I see most from non-wearers is 'it doesn't prevent covid' - no and nor do seat belts 100% protect people in car accidents nor does 'the rhythm method' protect 100% against pregnancy, but it protects a bit).

It helps a little bit, but it's not the point of them. Knowing what your mask is designed for is the point. To take the opposite example, if you have COVID and go out in a filtered gas mask or whatever, you're getting the cleanest air possible, but you're blasting virus out of your face in all directions because that's a mask designed under the assumption that the problem is on the outside.

Also, it doesn't quite work the same way in both directions. When you're breathing out, the air goes forwards, perfect to be caught by a mask over your mouth. When you're breathing in, you're just creating negative pressure in front of your mouth, the air that fills it could come from anywhere. If your mask is any less than airtight, it'll come from around the edges too. Plenty of aerosolised virus can get in that way.

Dabir fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Jan 31, 2023

ThomasPaine
Feb 4, 2009

We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror.

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Masks can help protect the wearer, if it's a barrier one way, it's also a barrier the other.

I don't understand where this 'masks don't protect the wearer' idea comes from.

*Some* masks protect the user. Your average surgical/cloth ones however add a bit of protection but not a huge amount. They work to limit how far you can project infected material because the gunk you cough up goes in one direction, right into them, and most of the droplets stay behind them. You'll still release a bit but you'd have to be in close proximity for anyone to get a big dose. They're hardly airtight though, so if the room you're in is already saturated with germs they're going to get past them because they can enter from other angles. I'm certainly not an anti-masker by any means but in any kind of crowded environment a majority of people forgoing one essentially means everyone might as well be forgoing one, and the only situation where you'd be making a meaningful dent in that is if you think you have covid, in which case I'd always argue you shouldn't be in that environment in the first place.

Mega Comrade
Apr 22, 2004

Listen buddy, we all got problems!

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Masks can help protect the wearer, if it's a barrier one way, it's also a barrier the other.

I don't understand where this 'masks don't protect the wearer' idea comes from.

I do understand that if you are infected, not spreading your lung gunk around other people is more helpful to them than not wearing a mask, than helpful for you - the mask wearer - being surrounded by 10 unmasked infected lung gunk sharers, but it does offer a modicum of protection more than not being masked. And obviously quality of mask & fit also add further variation to the amount of protection.

Yes it's not 100% protection (the argument I see most from non-wearers is 'it doesn't prevent covid' - no and nor do seat belts 100% protect people in car accidents nor does 'the rhythm method' protect 100% against pregnancy, but it protects a bit).

Anyway see here for some discussion: https://archive.is/iGlUw


Because most of the masks you see people wearing are cloth ones. Cloth masks do a pretty drat good job of containing coughs and sneezes for what they are, but only filter the largest of droplets breathing in, so protect the wearer very little, better than nothing I suppose but if you are actually concerned about catching COVID at this point you should be wearing something higher quality. A N95/ffp2 is different, they do protect the wearer reasonably well.

I throw a cloth one on when I get on the bus because you often get old people on the bus. I'm vaccinated and have now had COVID so am no longer concerned about catching it personally.

Jaeluni Asjil
Apr 18, 2018

Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

Dabir posted:

It helps a little bit, but it's not the point of them. Knowing what your mask is designed for is the point. To take the opposite example, if you have COVID and go out in a filtered gas mask or whatever, you're getting the cleanest air possible, but you're blasting virus out of your face in all directions because that's a mask designed under the assumption that the problem is on the outside.

Ok yes from that point of view.
Guess I'm thinking mostly in terms of what regular public people such as myself are wearing - either cloth ones or disposables not CSI:Biohazard quality.

^^^
I stand partially corrected all round.

Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jan 31, 2023

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Mega Comrade posted:

I'm vaccinated and have now had COVID so am no longer concerned about catching it personally.

You probably should be, I'm afraid

Mega Comrade
Apr 22, 2004

Listen buddy, we all got problems!
Death for my age group is < 0.1%, so now its double. Those risks are still incredibly low for someone in my age bracket with no underlying health problems.

Just Another Lurker posted:

Ahh... reinfection is a thing, sorry.

Yes almost certainly I will get it again at some point. Its endemic now, the ship has sailed on wiping it out.

Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jan 31, 2023

Just Another Lurker
May 1, 2009

Mega Comrade posted:

..
I'm vaccinated and have now had COVID so am no longer concerned about catching it personally.

Ahh... reinfection is a thing, sorry.

-------------

Just got my £600 government payout for the heating/electricity(Northern Ireland), happily that's enough to pay my yearly rates bill. :)

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018
Why does everyone do that "Someone has responded to my post, therefore I will withdraw from the thread forever and retreat to my Fortress of Solitude at the North Pole" thing. Just post, who gives a poo poo.

I'll never stop posting

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Failed Imagineer posted:

Why does everyone do that "Someone has responded to my post, therefore I will withdraw from the thread forever and retreat to my Fortress of Solitude at the North Pole" thing. Just post, who gives a poo poo.

Looking for people to go 'no don't leave, we like you'

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

EmptyVessel posted:

I'll not bother the thread again.

just post imo, worst people can do is tldr

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

Just Another Lurker posted:

Just got my £600 government payout for the heating/electricity(Northern Ireland), happily that's enough to pay my yearly rates bill. :)

At the current rates that's *checks comically long notes* three weeks worth. Sorry we can't freeze the cap because that's communism.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009


so glad we kept this fucker under control so it didn't became the new angel of death for the next 3-5 years.

Mega Comrade
Apr 22, 2004

Listen buddy, we all got problems!

Tesseraction posted:

so glad we kept this fucker under control so it didn't became the new angel of death for the next 3-5 years.

Honestly how could we have? The UKs response can be criticised heavily, but even China who locked down harder than pretty much anyone is now seeing skyrocketing infections now they have opened up.

Maybe if the entire world had responded like China in 2020?

killerwhat
May 13, 2010

Failed Imagineer posted:

Why does everyone do that "Someone has responded to my post, therefore I will withdraw from the thread forever and retreat to my Fortress of Solitude at the North Pole" thing. Just post, who gives a poo poo.

I'll never stop posting

Many years ago, someone - fairly mildly - argued with my mum in group chat in an MMO. She cried so hard she missed my brother's parents evening.

keep punching joe
Jan 22, 2006

Die Satan!
Your mum is weak and does not have what it takes to be a gamer.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

Mega Comrade posted:

Honestly how could we have? The UKs response can be criticised heavily, but even China who locked down harder than pretty much anyone is now seeing skyrocketing infections now they have opened up.

Maybe if the entire world had responded like China in 2020?

Honestly part of the problem was that the world collectively failed to contain this, but there was a definitely an element in many countries where the powers in charge were weighing up public safety vs. protecting The Line That Must Always Go Up but that had Stopped Going Up For A While. It's just frustrating that 100 years after the devastation of the Spanish Kansas Flu. Likewise America was part of the giant bucket of poo poo that let this thing mutate like crazy. Maybe I'm just feeling a little extra death to the Anglosphere today.

Mega Comrade
Apr 22, 2004

Listen buddy, we all got problems!
We could definitely still be doing more now though for sure. They have moved the booster shots to seasonal ones, offered to only those who are elderly or immune compromised, despite data showing categorically that immunisation slows the spread in general.
If I could have a seasonal booster I'd happily take it, hell I'd have the flu one too please.

Mega Comrade fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jan 31, 2023

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018

keep punching joe posted:

Your mum is weak and does not have what it takes to be a gamer.

She will never take her place amongst the honoured dead in Sto'vokor, for she does not have the warrior heart of the shitposter

killerwhat
May 13, 2010

keep punching joe posted:

Your mum is weak and does not have what it takes to be a gamer.

Very true. I don't have a warrior heart either but I've just managed to get my post count up to a huge "0.10 per day"

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

Don't need a warrior's heart when you have that dog's face for an avatar.

Guavanaut
Nov 27, 2009

Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998



Toilet Rascal
Could be much worse :v:

Microplastics
Jul 6, 2007

:discourse:
It's what's for dinner.

killerwhat posted:

Many years ago, someone - fairly mildly - argued with my mum in group chat in an MMO. She cried so hard she missed my brother's parents evening.

I hope you issued a "cry much? :smug:" to finish her off, as is gamer tradition

Tesla was right
Apr 3, 2009

Whats with all the robot sex avatars?
I've been wearing one of those half-mask respirators when I've been going out and about. It feels a lot more secure than the FFP2 masks I could get at Boots.

It's this one https://www.arco.co.uk/Web-Taxonomy/Personal-Protective-Equipment/Face-Masks-%26-Respirators/Half-Masks/Stealth-Half-Face-Respirator-Mask-with-P3-Filters/p/PIM000000000025531, that I think was originally linked from this thread.

It's secure enough for me to brave public transport, and I take an LFT if I think I'm going to be breathing on anyone.

Now I want one that fits a straw so I can stay hydrated at comedy gigs without taking my mask off.

Diet Crack
Jan 15, 2001


"Thanks for the donations, these veneers are sweet"

Whoever said that we should Mussolini Boris and Pigfucker, why stop at 2? There's plenty of lampposts. Personally I think they should all hang down the mall and then have a festival as they sway in the breeze.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

Do you do a Bane voice when wearing it?

Dead Goon
Dec 13, 2002

No Obvious Flaws



I seem to recall as Covid was kicking off, and it was a challenge to get people to wear masks that a tactic used was the line "it's not to protect you, it's to protect others because you want to protect others, right?!"

I can't help but feel that from this the sentiment that masks don't protect yourself was born, it's certainly a line of thought that crossed my mind, if not for me then for others.

Tesseraction
Apr 5, 2009

Cloth* masks can't really protect you, but they can capture most of your cough, that's why the issue came from. The better quality of mask you use the more likely it is to protect you as well as protect others.

* obviously some of the more heavy duty filtered cloth masks are better, but I'm talking about when people were functionally putting a pair of cotton underwear over their face

Diet Crack
Jan 15, 2001

Clapping will keep us safe and the NHS at it's best.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Mega Comrade posted:

We could definitely still be doing more now though for sure. They have moved the booster shots to seasonal ones, offered to only those who are elderly or immune compromised, despite data showing categorically that immunisation slows the spread in general.
If I could have a seasonal booster I'd happily take it, hell I'd have the flu one too please.

Even better - they're now considering no longer giving anyone the primary course of vaccination (unless clinically vulnerable) "over the course of 2023"

so, uh, if anyone knows anyone who's never been vaccinated - I'm thinking mostly of younger people here who are just aging up into being eligible (anyone older who hasn't already had their primary course is realistically never going to, 'cause it's poison microchips or w/e) - then they should get vaccinated ASAP. 'Cause there's a good chance we're not going to bothering at all soon.

Tesla was right posted:

I've been wearing one of those half-mask respirators when I've been going out and about. It feels a lot more secure than the FFP2 masks I could get at Boots.

It's this one https://www.arco.co.uk/Web-Taxonomy...00000000025531, that I think was originally linked from this thread.

It's secure enough for me to brave public transport, and I take an LFT if I think I'm going to be breathing on anyone.

Now I want one that fits a straw so I can stay hydrated at comedy gigs without taking my mask off.

That was probably me - glad you're having good results with it! I'm still using mine at the gym, it's still doing the trick. I use 3M Aura 9322+ masks otherwise, and they're hands down the most comfortable masks I've ever used.

Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jan 31, 2023

Tesla was right
Apr 3, 2009

Whats with all the robot sex avatars?

Tesseraction posted:

Do you do a Bane voice when wearing it?

Yes. I also look like a low-level STALKER NPC, which is fun.

Barry Foster posted:

That was probably me - glad you're having good results with it!

Thanks! I had it for over a year before I could wear it because of a skin condition and NHS dermatology being totally hosed.

big scary monsters
Sep 2, 2011

-~Skullwave~-
My partner had covid and we didn't know for the first couple days so carried on as normal. I didn't catch it so I assume I'm just too powerful for the virus.

Diet Crack
Jan 15, 2001

I presume I just had Covid with this last cold as it was from the boots type coughing - didn't go out much though for the sake of others and not spreading it though.

Did try and call a pharmacy to see about testing kits - "we don't have any." Sounds about right, would probably cost £30 a pop too.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

They sell them at sainsburys for £2 a go.

Diet Crack
Jan 15, 2001

OwlFancier posted:

They sell them at sainsburys for £2 a go.

Where though, the only Sainsburys around me are those small local ones and I certainly haven't seen them - I'd assume you need a larger one with a pharmacy in it?
I mean, the fact that I would have to go to a SUPERMARKET whilst contagious to get something to test for that very thing baffles me - they should be posted out easily (and for free) but alas.. UK.
Good thing we paid for all these contracts

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Diet Crack posted:

Where though, the only Sainsburys around me are those small local ones and I certainly haven't seen them - I'd assume you need a larger one with a pharmacy in it?
I mean, the fact that I would have to go to a SUPERMARKET whilst contagious to get something to test for that very thing baffles me - they should be posted out easily (and for free) but alas.. UK.

No, weirdly, most of the normal size ones I have visited have them on a shipper (cardboard stand) near the checkouts. Locals probably won't, but I've never seen a sainsburys with a pharmacy in it, so just regular superstore sized ones.

Admittedly, shippers usually are for limited stock items so perhaps they are not a permanent thing, but I have seen them consistently since before xmas.

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007


Diet Crack posted:

Where though, the only Sainsburys around me are those small local ones and I certainly haven't seen them - I'd assume you need a larger one with a pharmacy in it?
I mean, the fact that I would have to go to a SUPERMARKET whilst contagious to get something to test for that very thing baffles me - they should be posted out easily (and for free) but alas.. UK.
Good thing we paid for all these contracts

How DARE you, the billionaires deserved that money! Sometimes they ever got paid again to dispose of the faulty tests they provided in the first case!!

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Testro
May 2, 2009
I had the opposite experience. I had two bouts of post-viral illness when I was much younger, so with covid, I stayed inside as much as possible because I desperately didn't want to catch it. I had all 3 vaccines, only saw my immediate 3 family members and my best friend indoors (all with LFTs beforehand and a few days space from any mixing they might have done, to give covid time to show if they'd caught it).

For over 2 years, I spent 98% of my time on my own. I did everything online - shopping, socialising, everything. The only visits I had outside were 3 routine medical appointments. Then, policies changed and I had to go back to the office. In total, I spent under 20 hours in the office and caught covid. Unluckily for me, it wasn't just a sniffle - I have been devastatingly unwell with covid / long covid, and I have been off work for over 5 months.

My doctor said that some people are just predisposed to reacting badly to viruses, hence my initial post-viral illnesses all those years ago.

Bit gutted that I spent over 2 years mostly on my own, only to immediately catch it as soon as I went into a mixed environment. I didn't even do anything interesting for myself, like go to a concert. A tad annoying.

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