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How quickly does coffee 'go bad'? I bought some Rosso "turning point" that used to be my favorite and I can't get it to the same point despite trying to dial it in quite a lot. I bought it and another bag of coffee and drank the other bag first, so this was sitting for 3 weeks before I opened it I guess. Roast date is Dec 19th and I started drinking it maybe around January 16-17th. It was kept in it's bag at room temp since it was roasted. Also, anyone else finding that older coffee maybe grinds different or has some other quality like that whereby the shot pulls differently with all the other variables the same? I'm getting channeling despite using the same WDT/process that I would always use without any channeling.
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Jan 21, 2023 01:42
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VelociBacon posted:How quickly does coffee 'go bad'? I bought some Rosso "turning point" that used to be my favorite and I can't get it to the same point despite trying to dial it in quite a lot. I bought it and another bag of coffee and drank the other bag first, so this was sitting for 3 weeks before I opened it I guess. Roast date is Dec 19th and I started drinking it maybe around January 16-17th. It was kept in it's bag at room temp since it was roasted. I don't know how fresh coffee needs to be for espresso, but I've definitely had some weird batches from Rosso for pourover, to the point where I stopped buying from them. They're good when they're good but too inconsistent.
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Jan 21, 2023 02:21
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VelociBacon posted:How quickly does coffee 'go bad'? I bought some Rosso "turning point" that used to be my favorite and I can't get it to the same point despite trying to dial it in quite a lot. I bought it and another bag of coffee and drank the other bag first, so this was sitting for 3 weeks before I opened it I guess. Roast date is Dec 19th and I started drinking it maybe around January 16-17th. It was kept in it's bag at room temp since it was roasted. Ideally, I like to finish a bag within three weeks of its roast date. If you do pourover you’ll see that that’s around the tipping point where bloom really drops off, and espresso stops having any crema. Taste holds up ok for a bit longer, but it changes noticeably before a month. Freezing unopened bags extends freshness very well. Needing to change grind settings as the coffee ages is a well known thing, and espresso makers will notice more channeling as well. I don’t understand the reasons for it, but usually you want to tweak the grind a bit finer if it takes longer than a week, maybe week and a half to finish a bag.
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Jan 21, 2023 02:48
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I secured some known-good espresso from a local roaster and have been permutating and experimenting over the last few days. It seems that 14.5 grams at #3.5ish on the Rocky is as much as I can do without getting some kind of spurting. Problem is that's pretty over-extracted at that point. I'm guessing that if I have higher doses, it'll be a little less over-extracted/bitter. If I go any coarser, I get some degree of spurting. Should I move up to #4 and higher doses until it doesn't spurt?
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Jan 21, 2023 23:26
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MJP posted:I secured some known-good espresso from a local roaster and have been permutating and experimenting over the last few days. It seems that 14.5 grams at #3.5ish on the Rocky is as much as I can do without getting some kind of spurting. Problem is that's pretty over-extracted at that point. I'm guessing that if I have higher doses, it'll be a little less over-extracted/bitter. Unpressurized basket will likely fix. If it doesn’t than you need to do the mod that lowers the pressure.
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Jan 22, 2023 00:10
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Gotcha. If I wanted to get a triple basket as well as a double, would this fit a Gaggia Classic? It wasn't listed in the compatibility list so I'm guessing no, but I'm trying to get past that darn $15 threshold for free shipping.
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Jan 22, 2023 03:20
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MJP posted:Gotcha. If I wanted to get a triple basket as well as a double, would this fit a Gaggia Classic? It wasn't listed in the compatibility list so I'm guessing no, but I'm trying to get past that darn $15 threshold for free shipping. Any 58mm basket should fit, but you will probably need a bottomless portafilter for a triple basket.
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Jan 22, 2023 03:26
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Got a bottomless filter + triple unpressurized basket on order. I like lattes, might as well be able to start with 21g. Out of curiosity, are my spurting/channeling issues just how Gaggia Classics are, and part of the learning curve, or would I have the same issues with another proper espresso machine?
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Jan 22, 2023 14:56
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Channeling is something everyone has to learn how to deal with. The Gaggia specifically has a higher brew pressure than most pro-sumer machines too, which makes it worse. Proper dial in and Puck prep are how to deal with it. Did you end up getting a WDT tool? You want something with very fine needles like that Etsy linked one. Also you might want to look in to temperature surfing on the Gaggia if you haven't already.
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Jan 22, 2023 15:20
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Bandire posted:Channeling is something everyone has to learn how to deal with. The Gaggia specifically has a higher brew pressure than most pro-sumer machines too, which makes it worse. Proper dial in and Puck prep are how to deal with it.
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Jan 22, 2023 15:57
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MJP posted:Yep, got a WDT tool and have been using it. I'm stirring through the whole puck to loosen and fluff before tamping. I also got a tamper that's spot on to the stock baskets - 58.6mm, allowing 0.1mm (thank you, digital calipers). I'll do some reading on temp surfing after this next test shot but i definitely kinda feel the discouragement creeping in. Gonna maybe just stay at 14g and super fine and deal with overextraction but spurt free, at least until the new basket arrives. Sorry to add more for you to buy, but if you haven’t I highly recommend a dosing ring or funnel. Single greatest QOL tool I’ve purchased for my espresso setup. Makes losing grinds due to the mound a non-issue. IMO wait to experiment until you get your unpressurized basket. Anything you learn on the pressurized basket will go out the window with the unpressurized. Don’t try to drive a screw with a hammer. After you have your full toolset, then focus on technique. Use properly aged (10 days through 1 month), darker roasted beans. Get your puck prep good and consistent. Weigh beans before AND after grind, focus on level tamping, understand proper WDT, run a couple grams through your grinder with each and every adjustment to clear retention. Once you feel you’ve hit a wall and can’t get better results, then it’s time to look at moving the pressure down on your machine. There’s tons of guides on how to do this for the gaggia. FWIW, I had some pretty bad channeling problems and it was immediately solved by lowering my machine pressure. Just don’t invest time into it until you know all of the other foundations are solid.
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Jan 22, 2023 17:18
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A triple basket sounds like a great way to waste a ton of coffee when you're still figuring stuff out. 18g double lattes are totally fine and maybe even normal.
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Jan 22, 2023 18:45
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VelociBacon posted:A triple basket sounds like a great way to waste a ton of coffee when you're still figuring stuff out. 18g double lattes are totally fine and maybe even normal. I'm guessing I can't just use it for single or double shots, then? Semi-alternate topic, is there any place in the US that sells replacement safety valves for Moka pots? I dropped my Moka pot on the collar, so it won't thread anymore, and my backup is missing the little ball from the valve. Of course, the valve threadings are a few mm apart, so no interchangeability. Given that these are $7 parts but with $20-$25 shipping from the UK (which I understand is still dealing with the Royal Mail hacking incident) I might as well just cough up for a new Moka pot.
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Jan 23, 2023 03:32
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Go to your local goodwill and get a new one that will almost assuredly be there
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Jan 23, 2023 04:17
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MJP posted:I'm guessing I can't just use it for single or double shots, then? You can’t do a single or double in a tripe basket without negatively impacting the results of the brew, no.
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Jan 23, 2023 04:41
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For anyone who does 15g or smaller doses, these I bought for spices and takeout sauces fit wonderfully 
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Jan 23, 2023 04:48
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Does one really need 30 of those?
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Jan 23, 2023 04:49
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No, but everything on Amazon must be $10 or more for reasons, so often you need to get way too many of whatever you want  At least some of our bagged spices will be easier, and I can single dose out several days ahead easily.
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Jan 23, 2023 05:30
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I'm rolling up to my first week with the Baratza Encore and have been enjoying it quite a bit. My setup now consists of it and a Moccamaster KBT. My question for anyone here with a similar setup (or good advice in general for this type of brewer), would be what you recommend for the grind size? I have the Encore set to a grind size of 18, and it tastes very good, but I'm wondering if I need to go higher, or lower, and I've also heard of folks "calibrating" the Encore, but I'm not quite sure how to go about that.
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Jan 23, 2023 15:35
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I’m around there, depending on the bean. 18-21 or so. I also let water go into the brew basket and I give it a stir so all grinds are saturated then I put in the carafe. Between 1-2 cups.
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Jan 23, 2023 15:38
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bredfrown posted:I'm rolling up to my first week with the Baratza Encore and have been enjoying it quite a bit. just gently caress around and go finer or coarser and see if you like it more or less on the same bean
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Jan 23, 2023 15:49
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JFC I love where I live. There's a guy who sells unroasted beans and commercial espresso machines next town over, and he has unpressurized baskets. Just grabbed one and the spurting 100% did not happen, not even the tiny little spurt that I was getting on my more successful shots. Had some decent crema, too. 14g at #3 was spurtless but still a tad over-extracted, #4 also spurtless and a little less over-extracted. Gonna try #5 and 15g at #4 next in hopes of Actually Getting It Right. Glad I forced myself to listen to the thread and not go off half-cocked in basket town.
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Jan 23, 2023 19:41
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bredfrown posted:I'm rolling up to my first week with the Baratza Encore and have been enjoying it quite a bit. AIUI, recalibration is really only necessary if you're not able to grind as fine or as coarse as you'd like to, not that recalibrating will somehow make the Encore better at grinding (the issue with the Encore not being "good" for espresso is the wide distribution of particle sizes, even at the "correct" setting). Though if I'm wrong, I'm happy to be corrected. That said, recalibration is relatively simple. There are three distinct settings (coarse, neutral and fine). Once you change between them, the numeral settings that you are referring to, will have completely different meanings. here's a quick video tutorial https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyQ_AywdBRQ edit: Baratza also has a guide that is slightly different https://baratza.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Recalibration.pdf (double edit, wrong link) Bayham Badger fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jan 24, 2023 |
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Jan 24, 2023 00:18
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bredfrown posted:I'm rolling up to my first week with the Baratza Encore and have been enjoying it quite a bit. Calibration shifts your grind numbers. If you set the calibration finer, a #8 will become #14, and so on. The purpose of doing it as an end user is to either tighten or loosen up the steps, or if you can’t grind fine/coarse enough. Unless you have an actual issue with the grinder, there is zero reason to recalibrate for drip. For espresso you can make the argument that you get a little more granular stepping at the super fine end, but even then the benefit ain’t much.
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Jan 24, 2023 02:56
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Thank you all for clearing this up! I saw the calibration advice getting thrown around on reddit a lot, but I wanted to check in here as well. I think what I need to now is probably just experiment more, lol! I tried an 8 grind this morning and I really liked it (it was very fine, but I received this advice from a friend of mine who also has the same setup), but I also liked 18. I'm thinking I might try 15 tomorrow morning and see if it's anything special, lol The grinder alone has improved the taste of my coffee significantly. I can't believe how much different it tastes now.
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Jan 24, 2023 03:18
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Just sneezed while holding my Robot portafilter full of water, turns out espresso tastes better after having cheated death.
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Jan 27, 2023 23:50
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I've been spending lots of quality time futzing and dialing in with my Gaggia Classic and Rancilio Rocky. It seems like I'm stuck at an impasse - 3.5 is just still a bit too bitter, 4.0 is underextracted and the crema doesn't last as long. I'm talking underextracted as in 15g of coffee producing 30g of espresso in 18 seconds. It's not bitter, but it's also lacking a bit of body. Upping the dose at 4.0 doesn't really do much - I've gone as high as 17g in an unpressurized double shot basket and I'm still producing 2x the liquid in less than 20 seconds. Is this just how it is with a Gaggia and Rocky, or is it just how it is with this one espresso blend I got from my local roaster?
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Jan 31, 2023 15:32
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MJP posted:I've been spending lots of quality time futzing and dialing in with my Gaggia Classic and Rancilio Rocky. It seems like I'm stuck at an impasse - 3.5 is just still a bit too bitter, 4.0 is underextracted and the crema doesn't last as long. I'm talking underextracted as in 15g of coffee producing 30g of espresso in 18 seconds. It's not bitter, but it's also lacking a bit of body. Upping the dose at 4.0 doesn't really do much - I've gone as high as 17g in an unpressurized double shot basket and I'm still producing 2x the liquid in less than 20 seconds. Is this just how it is with a Gaggia and Rocky, or is it just how it is with this one espresso blend I got from my local roaster? I don't know that grinder well but I would try grinding finer until you get to that 25-30s shot time and see how that tastes. The espresso I have right now tastes best with my grind setting giving me a 40s shot 18g in / 40g out. Sometimes the rule should be broken but if you're not even at ~30s yet I think that's the first thing to try. I know you're saying the fiber grind is too bitter but just try going finer and see how that tastes I guess.
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Jan 31, 2023 15:54
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The rocky was my first grinder and it’s challenging to use for espresso. The steps are too coarse and it retains a lot of grounds, making dialing very difficult unless you purge a couple grams between each shot. There are a couple things you can try, though. First, at the finer setting, is your shot “choking” with no or very little liquid coming through, or is it flowing normally but just very bitter? In particular, is it bitter or is it astringent - does it seem to dry out your tongue? If the former, and if the flow rate is good, this may just be a temperature problem, especially if you’re using a darker roast. Try to temp surf the gaggia a bit longer so the group head cools off by a few extra degrees, and see if that makes any difference. If your flow rate is choking at the finer setting or your espresso is noticeably astringent, then your grind is too fine and you’re overextracting. You can try dosing down by a half gram or a gram, which should raise the flow rate, giving you a better quality extraction with more good flavors and fewer bad ones. This is more likely to work than trying to squeeze more extraction out of a coarse grind by upping the dose, which has diminishing returns - at some point there’s just not enough contact time to extract the good flavors, no matter how much extra material you pack into the basket. Alternatively, if you’re using a low-quality basket like the oem gaggia baskets, you may be able to improve the flow rate just by upgrading to a precision basket. IMS or VST are the gold standard but not necessarily the only option; I can personally say the redesigned (as of like 2010) rancilio baskets are a huge upgrade and can be had for under ten bucks (but make sure you get that specific part number, 40-100-102. 40-100-010 is the older part and is poor quality. Also, not vouching for that specific shop, it was just what popped up on google.) Lastly, if none of those work, the Real Solution is just to upgrade your grinder. There used to be a lot of guides floating around about how to stepless mod the rocky, and they’ve fallen way out of favor as much better grinders have come on the market but I’m sure you can still find one on google or the homebarista forums. Otherwise, just bite the bullet and save up for a niche or mignon or lagom mini or something. There’s an upper bound to the experience you can have with a given setup and right now that upper bound is set for you by the rocky.
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Jan 31, 2023 16:30
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What about the 1zpresso j-max here? The steps are pretty fine adjustments and might be a nice stopgap while looking for a "forever espresso grinder".
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Jan 31, 2023 16:50
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Mignon Chrono with the espresso burrs from the more expensive but still 50mm burrset I think is unbeatable value.
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Jan 31, 2023 16:55
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TengenNewsEditor posted:What about the 1zpresso j-max here? The steps are pretty fine adjustments and might be a nice stopgap while looking for a "forever espresso grinder". Just spend a little more and get the Fellow Opus when it comes out. I cancelled my J-Max order and preordered one instead. My encore sucks for espresso, but I'll get by for a few more weeks. Corb3t fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jan 31, 2023 |
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Jan 31, 2023 19:16
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hypnophant posted:The rocky was my first grinder and it’s challenging to use for espresso. The steps are too coarse and it retains a lot of grounds, making dialing very difficult unless you purge a couple grams between each shot. There are a couple things you can try, though. First, at the finer setting, is your shot “choking” with no or very little liquid coming through, or is it flowing normally but just very bitter? In particular, is it bitter or is it astringent - does it seem to dry out your tongue? If the former, and if the flow rate is good, this may just be a temperature problem, especially if you’re using a darker roast. Try to temp surf the gaggia a bit longer so the group head cools off by a few extra degrees, and see if that makes any difference. I purge pretty much all the time - got a 3D printed bellows lid thingy, so I blow out before and during grinds. At the finer settings, there's about 5 seconds after I flip the switch before espresso starts coming out, then it flows normally. It's bitter, not astringent, so I'm guessing it's temp surfing unless that 5 second delay is choked flow rate. However, even at 3.0, I'm still going pretty quickly - 14g at 3.0 yielded 28g espresso at just slightly bitter in 17 seconds. Likewise, 13g at 3.0 was done in 11 seconds (and still had that 5 second delay, FWIW). I'm using an aftermarket unpressurized basket - not sure of the brand since I got it at a local roaster/espresso repair shop. It looks like the Rancilio one you've linked. FWIW I'm using a dosing tool - the one with needles and stuff - and getting darn near perfectly level tamps. Should I continue permutating or is this just how it is with the Rocky? If that's Rocky life, then how realistic is it to want a grinder that can range from espresso to French press? I had my eyes on a Mignon Perfetto or Specialitta, so if I gotta go that route, then I must, but I'd rather at least rule out whether it's Rocky problems before dropping more $. At least espressocoffeeshop has them, so that's a plus.
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Jan 31, 2023 19:24
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MJP posted:Should I continue permutating or is this just how it is with the Rocky? If that's Rocky life, then how realistic is it to want a grinder that can range from espresso to French press? I had my eyes on a Mignon Perfetto or Specialitta, so if I gotta go that route, then I must, but I'd rather at least rule out whether it's Rocky problems before dropping more $. At least espressocoffeeshop has them, so that's a plus. This comes up almost every week but you basically can't use one grinder for espresso + something else, especially french press since that's relatively coarser than pourover etc. Even on a Niche or something you will get enough retention that it just isn't feasible, and dialing back into exactly what you wanted for both seems like it would be tricky on top of that. If you get a Eureka Mignon Chrono + Espresso burrs for espresso, and the 2nd gen Ode for your pourover/french press, that's I think coming in still under $600 for two grinders. e: Or just use your current grinder for the non-espresso stuff.
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Jan 31, 2023 19:42
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Having tried using a Niche for everything, I can confidently say don't do it. You'll be way off the dial in terms of adjustment for drip/pourover (or dog forbid, french press) and you'll be chasing re-dialing in for espresso. As for the question on the JX-Pro, it's a REALLY nicely made piece, but what I found was a HUGE variance depending on grind speed. Since it's a hand grinder, I wasn't able to get the consistency I can with a Niche hand grinding. I even tried running it off a drill but still ended up with some shots running fast and some choking at the same setting (and occasionally it was perfect!) I'm also doing this on a Flair so an additional variable in terms of hand-pulling shots vs. a traditional machine. If you can't spring for a Niche, the JX-Pro is very capable (and grinds super fast too), it just wasn't consistent enough for my setup. It also is stepped and has much less of an issue with retention than an electric grinder so I think you could get away with using it for both pourover and espresso, but you'd be dialing a lot and it might be hard to keep track of. In the end, my Encore came out of retirement to be the "everything but espresso" grinder and the Niche is wonderful for espresso.
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Jan 31, 2023 19:53
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Fellow's owner has been making claims on coffee discussion groups that the upcoming $200 Opus grinder can do both espresso and pour over better than the Niche can. https://www.gearpatrol.com/food/a42409254/fellow-opus-grinder/
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Jan 31, 2023 20:03
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MJP posted:At the finer settings, there's about 5 seconds after I flip the switch before espresso starts coming out, then it flows normally. It's bitter, not astringent, so I'm guessing it's temp surfing unless that 5 second delay is choked flow rate. However, even at 3.0, I'm still going pretty quickly - 14g at 3.0 yielded 28g espresso at just slightly bitter in 17 seconds. Likewise, 13g at 3.0 was done in 11 seconds (and still had that 5 second delay, FWIW). I'm using an aftermarket unpressurized basket - not sure of the brand since I got it at a local roaster/espresso repair shop. It looks like the Rancilio one you've linked. FWIW I'm using a dosing tool - the one with needles and stuff - and getting darn near perfectly level tamps. The delay is normal - that’s how long it takes the coffee to become fully wetted, which has to happen before anything can flow out. In fact 5 seconds is probably too short - 10-12 is more normal. Longer if your machine does a soft preinfusion (though I believe the gaggia does not.) FYI when people say things like “18 in 36 out in 30 seconds,” that time is always counted from when you switch on the pump, so it includes that preinfusion delay. In short, you are still not grinding fine enough to hit the generic 18/36/30s recipe. If the coffee still tastes bitter to you, you are probably (1) brewing too hot for the roast, (2) experiencing sour-bitter confusion, (3) using a coffee that is just more bitter than you like. A WDT tool is a good addition to your routine. As for the basket, the way to check is by holding it up against a well-lit, light-colored backdrop and check that all the holes appear round and regular. If some appear brighter than others, smaller than others, some are not fully punched out, or if the edges of some holes are visibly ragged, then you’d benefit from getting a better-quality basket with laser-cut holes, like an IMS, VST, or the rancilio I linked. The advantage of this is that the basket does not contribute any additional unevenness to flow beyond what is arising from your coffee (which is never perfectly evenly distributed, no matter your routine.) In your case, I think the better flow characteristics will give you a bit more margin to accommodate the imprecision of the rocky’s grind. I agree with what everyone else has said about running one grinder for filter and espresso. I do think it’s possible to get good espresso out of the rocky but it’s just a pain in the rear end and I would make upgrading the grinder my first priority. In fact that’s exactly what I did when I was in your shoes - I bought a sette 270 (which I also don’t recommend now, but it made much better espresso than the rocky) and kept the silvia for a few additional years.
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Jan 31, 2023 20:35
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amenenema posted:As for the question on the JX-Pro, it's a REALLY nicely made piece, but what I found was a HUGE variance depending on grind speed. Since it's a hand grinder, I wasn't able to get the consistency I can with a Niche hand grinding. I even tried running it off a drill but still ended up with some shots running fast and some choking at the same setting (and occasionally it was perfect!) I'm also doing this on a Flair so an additional variable in terms of hand-pulling shots vs. a traditional machine. Huh, I don't get that issue at all with Flair + JX-Pro. I'll try some side by side with grind speed as the variable, but so far my numbers are really tight day to day. Out of curiosity, how long do you pre infuse? Are you pulling at 9 bar? For me it's 10 sec at 1.5 bar, starting time from the first drop, and 1-2 grams drip through in those 10 seconds. Then I max out at 5-6 bar, eyeballing my target flow rate.
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Jan 31, 2023 20:36
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Corb3t posted:Fellow's owner has been making claims on coffee discussion groups that the upcoming $200 Opus grinder can do both espresso and pour over better than the Niche can. Got a link to where he’s saying it outperforms the niche?
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Jan 31, 2023 20:49
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Corb3t posted:Fellow's owner has been making claims on coffee discussion groups that the upcoming $200 Opus grinder can do both espresso and pour over better than the Niche can. I'm very interested in this grinder just for pourover because I'm over the particle size distribution on my Encore, but I have a hard time believing it will do both espresso and pourover well because I don't understand why they'd cannibalize sales from their own significantly pricier pourover grinder.
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Jan 31, 2023 21:21
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