Auspol 2023 - fuck off Pauline - The Something Awful Forums

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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol 2023 - fuck off Pauline

Electric Wrigglies: Feb 6, 2015

froglet posted:

Yeah, and that's great! (Coz gosh I know I've been there and it is excruciating).

My one nitpick about it (as someone who went through a kafka-esque sequence of events involving nearly dying of a UTI, having recurrent problems, then spending the next 18 months trying to get to the bottom of the issue) is if there's any follow-up care or monitoring for people who are getting them dispensed frequently. Coz if someone's getting recurrent ones, getting it treated on an ad-hoc basis by pharmacists could potentially be harmful in the long run/make the problem worse (e.g. their variety of bacteria develops antibiotic resistance).

Like, is there a pathway for pharmacists to say "hey, look, I can see we've dispensed you antibiotics for this issue 4 times in the past 8 weeks. I can give you more now, but you need to see a doctor to see what's going on"? Or even "hey before you take this, can we take a urine sample to ensure you haven't got something nastier"? (Note: maybe there is, I don't know, I don't think pharmacists are allowed to do this in WA).

And yeah, while this is a huge improvement, there's a broader range of non-emergencies that ED is currently handling that I reckon an urgent care stream may be better equipped to handle. Yes, most people probably can wait in the ED a couple of hours with a bucket to spew up into while waiting to be seen, but it's probably not good for them or the people around them, especially if you've got something super catching like norovirus.

... And all of this is even more important now, in the age of antibiotic resistance and covid!

(... Don't take this as me disagreeing with you! I think we're furiously agreeing with each other. I just care about this stuff a lot and think it could be better!)

Oh btw, for anyone still reading that's based in WA - my friend who works in ED claims if you need something looked at urgently but it's not exactly an emergency (and you'd rather suffer at home as long as possible/not be stuck in the waiting room around the sick people for hours and hours), the best time to rock up at ED is ~3am. Apparently it tends to be relatively quiet around then (funny, that ).

Considering that everything goes through the medicare card, you think it would be easy for statistically optimal procedural based automation to spit out recommendations according to services/medications purchased "hey buddy, a twice daily buy of oxy for the last few weeks and no doctor visits - maybe you should go see a doc?" / "hmm that odd combination of tests and medications suggest that it is not a heart problem like you and your doctor think it is but is actually a reaction to the contraceptive pill you are on, better check for that",/ "you have a cold, antibiotics are probably not necessary and pharmacist x has a history of handing them out like candy".

# ? Jan 29, 2023 11:38

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 20, 2024 12:15

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

ai neural learning prescription writing.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 12:20

Animal Friend: Sep 7, 2011

Electric Wrigglies posted:

Considering that everything goes through the medicare card, you think it would be easy for statistically optimal procedural based automation to spit out recommendations according to services/medications purchased "hey buddy, a twice daily buy of oxy for the last few weeks and no doctor visits - maybe you should go see a doc?" / "hmm that odd combination of tests and medications suggest that it is not a heart problem like you and your doctor think it is but is actually a reaction to the contraceptive pill you are on, better check for that",/ "you have a cold, antibiotics are probably not necessary and pharmacist x has a history of handing them out like candy".

what

# ? Jan 29, 2023 13:02

kirbysuperstar: Nov 11, 2012; Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.

Electric Wrigglies posted:

Considering that everything goes through the medicare card, you think it would be easy for statistically optimal procedural based automation to spit out recommendations according to services/medications purchased "hey buddy, a twice daily buy of oxy for the last few weeks and no doctor visits - maybe you should go see a doc?" / "hmm that odd combination of tests and medications suggest that it is not a heart problem like you and your doctor think it is but is actually a reaction to the contraceptive pill you are on, better check for that",/ "you have a cold, antibiotics are probably not necessary and pharmacist x has a history of handing them out like candy".

I do not think ChatGPT is the answer, OP, thank you

# ? Jan 29, 2023 13:12

Electric Wrigglies: Feb 6, 2015

Statistical analysis is not ChatGPT which is a pure word association algorithm, I understand?

Like there is an entire Australian Bureau of Statistics that has been around for decades so its not like statistically analyzing demographic scale outcomes is not some kinda fad. This is the thing that they did in the UK to work out that some shoulder reconstruction surgery should not be done because statistically it was a waste of time.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 13:50

SCheeseman: Apr 23, 2003

After Robodebt it's a good idea to tread carefully on letting governments roll out automated systems. They can be useful, but too often it's instead a crux to take the things people need away from them and to remove agency from human decision makers (both clients and workers).

# ? Jan 29, 2023 14:23

MikeJF: Dec 20, 2003

And even if it's just flagging, the big issue with using systems to pick out items for human review is that it's really, really hard to stop people falling into the trap of just ticking what the system pops up.

MikeJF fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Jan 29, 2023

# ? Jan 29, 2023 15:07

Jezza of OZPOS: Mar 21, 2018; GET LOSE❌🗺️, YOUS CAN'T COMPARE😤 WITH ME 💪POWERS🇦🇺

SCheeseman posted:

After Robodebt it's a good idea to tread carefully on letting governments roll out automated systems. They can be useful, but too often it's instead a crux to take the things people need away from them and to remove agency from human decision makers (both clients and workers).

# ? Jan 29, 2023 16:13

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

Robots are workers too

# ? Jan 29, 2023 20:38

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

hambeet posted:

Robots are workers too

Not unless you can tell me what their union is.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 22:36

Regular Wario: Mar 27, 2010; Slippery Tilde

Cartoon posted:

Not unless you can tell me what their union is.

IT Workers union

# ? Jan 29, 2023 22:45

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

Cartoon posted:

Not unless you can tell me what their union is.

They can join any union being workers, duh.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 23:53

Animal Friend: Sep 7, 2011

Cartoon posted:

Not unless you can tell me what their union is.

Skynet

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:12

Other: Jul 10, 2007; Post it easy!

Cartoon posted:

Not unless you can tell me what their union is.

Devastator

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:15

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

So dissapointed nobody came up with Corpore Metal

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:27

Capt.Whorebags: Jan 10, 2005

froglet posted:

Yeah, and that's great! (Coz gosh I know I've been there and it is excruciating).

My one nitpick about it (as someone who went through a kafka-esque sequence of events involving nearly dying of a UTI, having recurrent problems, then spending the next 18 months trying to get to the bottom of the issue) is if there's any follow-up care or monitoring for people who are getting them dispensed frequently. Coz if someone's getting recurrent ones, getting it treated on an ad-hoc basis by pharmacists could potentially be harmful in the long run/make the problem worse (e.g. their variety of bacteria develops antibiotic resistance).

Like, is there a pathway for pharmacists to say "hey, look, I can see we've dispensed you antibiotics for this issue 4 times in the past 8 weeks. I can give you more now, but you need to see a doctor to see what's going on"? Or even "hey before you take this, can we take a urine sample to ensure you haven't got something nastier"? (Note: maybe there is, I don't know, I don't think pharmacists are allowed to do this in WA).

And yeah, while this is a huge improvement, there's a broader range of non-emergencies that ED is currently handling that I reckon an urgent care stream may be better equipped to handle. Yes, most people probably can wait in the ED a couple of hours with a bucket to spew up into while waiting to be seen, but it's probably not good for them or the people around them, especially if you've got something super catching like norovirus.

... And all of this is even more important now, in the age of antibiotic resistance and covid!

(... Don't take this as me disagreeing with you! I think we're furiously agreeing with each other. I just care about this stuff a lot and think it could be better!)

Oh btw, for anyone still reading that's based in WA - my friend who works in ED claims if you need something looked at urgently but it's not exactly an emergency (and you'd rather suffer at home as long as possible/not be stuck in the waiting room around the sick people for hours and hours), the best time to rock up at ED is ~3am. Apparently it tends to be relatively quiet around then (funny, that ).

This is an excellent point and one of the shortcomings with having pharmacists dispense even "basic" things like antibiotics. If you go to your GP with a UTI they should do a urine dipstick sample which will indicate basics, e.g. presence of white blood cells (leukocytes) which is normally a good sign that you have a UTI. They'll prescribe a relatively broad antibiotic for treatment, such as cephalexin. Importantly though, they should be then getting you to do a urine sample which will be sent off for a proper analysis including a culture growth. This will then be used to see if the specific bacteria in your UTI is susceptible to the antibiotics or if something more targeted is needed.

Sure the pharmacist can issue the general antibiotics and say "if it doesn't resolve, go see your GP" and most cases that's probably fine. But for some of the cases, it will add days to the illness and potentially cause further complications, e.g. nephritis.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 01:10

cool biRd pics: Aug 28, 2009; you will feel ashamed of your words & deeds

GPs do get a lot of pressure from patients to just write up a quick script for broad spectrum ABs. a lot of people dont want to have to do the proper pathology when they can just book a appointment and head straight to the pharmacy. I think people not having a �regular� GP contributes to this as well as GP clinics being run as businesses that have to make quick assessments based on a 1-off consult.

its good to have health professionals who are familiar with the patient and their medical/social etc history and leads to better healthcare imo

# ? Jan 30, 2023 02:46

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

Other posted:

Devastator

# ? Jan 30, 2023 02:50

Regular Wario: Mar 27, 2010; Slippery Tilde

:actually:

the better name would be Computron or Defensor

Devastator is for the construction industry AI

# ? Jan 30, 2023 03:54

Horsebanger: Jun 25, 2009; Steering wheel! Hey! Steering wheel! Someone tell him to give it to me!

froglet posted:

Oh btw, for anyone still reading that's based in WA - my friend who works in ED claims if you need something looked at urgently but it's not exactly an emergency (and you'd rather suffer at home as long as possible/not be stuck in the waiting room around the sick people for hours and hours), the best time to rock up at ED is ~3am. Apparently it tends to be relatively quiet around then (funny, that ).

I went to ED at 3am after I coughed up blood and was seen immediately which was a relief!

# ? Jan 30, 2023 04:23

Coward: Sep 10, 2009; _{I say we take off and surrender unconditionally from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure}

.

Cartoon posted:

So dissapointed nobody came up with Corpore Metal

Traitor! Save us, friend Computer!

# ? Jan 30, 2023 07:49

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

Any news about that mental health forum thing held on Monday? This was supposed to be the big thing after the 10 sessions got cut but it�s very radio silence afterwards.

# ? Jan 31, 2023 00:54

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

They�re still in there. They locked the doors until they get what they want.

# ? Jan 31, 2023 04:34

Eediot Jedi: Dec 25, 2007; This is where I begin to speculate what being a
man of my word costs me

hambeet posted:

They�re still in there. They locked the doors until they get what they want.

I feel like a mental health week after considering the mental health system and how it could be improved is appropriate.

earth shattering revelation no one saw coming:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-31/qld-robodebt-scheme-government-royal-commission-alan-tudge/101910064

quote:

Ms Miller said the government released personal information of Robodebt "case studies" to the media to deter more people from speaking out.

"The minister requested the file of every single person who appeared in the media � you could see the exact transactions that they'd had with Centrelink.

"This would send a clear message � that maybe consider it [going to the media] twice.

Love the use of "friendly" media.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-01/qld-robodebt-scheme-government-royal-commission-fraud/101910062

lol at tudge: I never asked the legality of the scheme I was responsible for, even after the legality of the scheme was questioned. I am responsible government man.

# ? Feb 1, 2023 07:26

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

I demand more royal commissions into the LNP.

# ? Feb 1, 2023 07:55

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

The only update I've really seen from the Australian Psychological Society came out today and it really seems like a huge wet fart. Mark Butler saying that "oh we'll talk about it on the forum" and then basically have no action come out of it is extremely milquetoast Labor

e: below is the text for the APS members, but it's behind a paywall

quote:

This week, APS members and your patients were represented at the Federal Government�s Mental Health Equity and Access Forum in Canberra to discuss the Better Access review. The APS was well represented, with Dr Zena Burgess CEO and other APS colleagues joining me, alongside several key mental health bodies.

We were pleased to see lived experience was also represented at the forum. The APS recognises the importance of lived experience in decision making. We have built strong and reciprocal ties with lived experience groups as we strive to support our members, as well as the wider community with our work.

Federal Health Minister the Hon Mark Butler MP spoke about the budget constraints his portfolio faces. Disappointingly, he made no commitments for any changes.

For several years now, we have been consistently calling on federal and state governments to better support psychologists and this forum was no exception. We raised a number of important issues in a bid to develop a more effective Better Access, namely;

Adopting APS solutions to strengthen the workforce Access to services in rural and regional areas Issues of access and equity Reducing wait times for patients, and; The need for incentives programs and increasing psychology placements.
We understand these pressing issues are of great concern to many of you � we asked, and many of you told us via member feedback.

You will see our latest advocacy efforts across the media, both on radio and in print, in this week�s APS Update as well as our APS in the news page on the website.

These issues form the basis of our 2023 Pre-Budget Submission. We encourage you to read through it to see what we are focused on.

Please know that we will continue to strongly advocate on behalf of members to get you the investment and programs from government that you and your clients deserve. We will not stay quiet on the issues affecting you and your communities most.

To those who took part in our recent member survey, thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences. We look forward to sharing those findings with you soon.

Feedback like this helps us understand the issues affecting you and ensures we can advocate on your behalf effectively, striving for solutions from the government that positively impact you and your clients, and where needed most.

Dr Catriona Davis-McCabe FAPS GAICD
President

lmao

# ? Feb 1, 2023 10:56

bobvonunheil: Mar 18, 2007; Board games and tea

Recoome posted:

The only update I've really seen from the Australian Psychological Society came out today and it really seems like a huge wet fart. Mark Butler saying that "oh we'll talk about it on the forum" and then basically have no action come out of it is extremely milquetoast Labor

Still better than saying "I'll get back to you on that" then following it up with "I talked about that last time"

but not by much

# ? Feb 1, 2023 13:09

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

bobvonunheil posted:

Still better than saying "I'll get back to you on that" then following it up with "I talked about that last time"

but not by much

Literally the same answer as before which was "My Budget!!!!"

Of course, the irony being that treating mental health at the ED is actually significantly more expensive than sub acute care but it's just classic Labah to throw a pity number at a lived experience group while effectively telling them to eat poo poo by yanking the funding for bare bones MH care.

# ? Feb 1, 2023 20:56

Comstar: Apr 20, 2007; Are you happy now?

Good news everybody: Adani is toast.

In unrelated news, AFB smashes Chinese money laundering group with 100+ Million in real estate deals. What's bad about this is, it was so easy to setup, there are billions still waiting to be discovered that is so large it may not be able to be found, and they blame the Chinese for our failures.

Wonder how much illegal real estate is propping up Adani.

# ? Feb 1, 2023 22:26

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

As well as anger at Cardinal Pell, the protesters also voiced outrage at Opposition Leader Peter Dutton�s attendance, amending their chant to �George Pell go to hell, take Dutton there as well�.

# ? Feb 2, 2023 03:34

bee: Dec 17, 2008; Do you often sing or whistle just for fun?

That's one hell of a chant, pun unintended

# ? Feb 2, 2023 06:11

MysticalMachineGun: Apr 5, 2005

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

As well as anger at Cardinal Pell, the protesters also voiced outrage at Opposition Leader Peter Dutton�s attendance, amending their chant to �George Pell go to hell, take Dutton there as well�.

:hmmyes:

# ? Feb 2, 2023 06:20

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

There goes Lydia.

# ? Feb 6, 2023 02:59

EvilElmo: May 10, 2009

Synthbuttrange posted:

There goes Lydia.

lol

# ? Feb 6, 2023 03:01

bell jar: Feb 25, 2009

:wave:

# ? Feb 6, 2023 03:05

NTRabbit: Aug 15, 2012; i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches

I'm sure things will go well when she contests the next election in the libertarian party

# ? Feb 6, 2023 03:19

Seemlar: Jun 18, 2002

NTRabbit posted:

I'm sure things will go well when she contests the next election in the libertarian party

She doesn't face election again until 2028

# ? Feb 6, 2023 03:29

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

Vic Greens in another split shocker

# ? Feb 6, 2023 04:13

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

https://twitter.com/abcnews/status/1622312828689612800

# ? Feb 6, 2023 04:19

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 20, 2024 12:15

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

Please dont borrow at 19% or breastfeed your dog

# ? Feb 6, 2023 04:26

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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol 2023 - fuck off Pauline

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