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Blue Footed Booby posted:Oblivion used generation, not Morrowind. They generated terrain then tweaked it by hand so they wouldn't spend half the dev cycle hand-crafting erosion marks in hillsides. The dungeons were still constructed by hand. Tweaked generated content definitely is a good thing for open world games. Particularly with stuff like vegetation, random rocks, ground elevation, etc. If it lets the map designers actually spend time on important things. Having said that, like how much content do you actually need? Radiant quests are a good example of automated stuff done bad, particularly when they are an essentially part of some of the story.
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Jan 31, 2023 16:36
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MixMasterMalaria posted:Oblivion's world was super bland after a couple of hours because of it. It was super bland because they made the whole world a bowl with the white gold tower in the center, visible from everywhere, completely destroying the illusion of size, then had absolutely everything everywhere leveled to you so there were never any surprises. And because they followed the weird mushroom land with what was in the in-game books supposed to be jungle, but inexplicably made it into generic not-Europe. I don't think using time-saving generation tools was a major factor in Oblivion's shortcomings.
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Jan 31, 2023 16:43
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The radiant AI sucked too
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Jan 31, 2023 16:54
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HootTheOwl posted:The radiant AI sucked too The AI will eventually come for us because of our sisyphean torture of his digital brother in Oblivion. There was one NPC who wanted to go to bed all the time, but his radiant AI was programmed to only go to bed when it was within 8 yards of him and they put the bed 10 yards away. So, he would just walk on his side of his house desperately wanting to go to bed for all eternity, but never able to make it.
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Jan 31, 2023 16:58
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The AI will eventually come for us because of our sisyphean torture of his digital brother in Oblivion. There was one NPC who wanted to go to bed all the time, but his radiant AI was programmed to only go to bed when it was within 8 yards of him and they put the bed 10 yards away. So, he would just walk on his side of his house desperately wanting to go to bed for all eternity, but never able to make it. Maybe that NPCs real version should have been more diligent about creating the god-AI. 
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Jan 31, 2023 17:04
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HootTheOwl posted:The radiant AI sucked too Didn't they end up not even actually using it in the game (or severely limiting it in some way) because it would always result in some huge clusterfuck NPC riot or something?
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Jan 31, 2023 17:13
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Neo Rasa posted:Didn't they end up not even actually using it in the game (or severely limiting it in some way) because it would always result in some huge clusterfuck NPC riot or something? Oh I doubt it, there were so many bugs and weird choices with NPCs in Oblivion (like a character who lives in one town, but for some reason starts in another town 20 miles away, leading to them being killed by bears) that I doubt any kind of coherent group based behavior would result.
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Jan 31, 2023 17:53
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MonikaTSarn posted:I was terribly disappointed when I found out Robot Wars is just remote controlled. Would be much more interesting with actual combat AI. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS-L2fpV1Is
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Jan 31, 2023 18:32
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That automated robot battle competition rules. Reminds me of whichever Culture novel where a laser battle between two Minds is over in a few tenths of second and the human passenger on the winning ship is just shown an extreme slo-mo replay after the fact.
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Jan 31, 2023 18:36
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The AI will eventually come for us because of our sisyphean torture of his digital brother in Oblivion. There was one NPC who wanted to go to bed all the time, but his radiant AI was programmed to only go to bed when it was within 8 yards of him and they put the bed 10 yards away. So, he would just walk on his side of his house desperately wanting to go to bed for all eternity, but never able to make it. Easier time than the NPC whose bed is accidentally set at a place across the map so they begin a journey toward death on the road as soon as you start a game
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Jan 31, 2023 18:36
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PT6A posted:It was a good time for games that were fun and casual. Games take themselves far, far too seriously these days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK0qDY36jGg&t=34s
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Jan 31, 2023 20:14
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The thing about the 90's and generally with early gaming is that you didn't have much in the way of voice acting or mocap or anything like that, so studios could really just churn stuff out, like a major release or two a year if they had the same engine and mostly the same assets between them. Look at the run that Microprose had, it wasn't a given that this method would turn out nothing like garbage like it can be relied upon to do today. If you had a game that needed some more visual flair you said "hey that guy at the party last night said he was an actor I think? I wonder if he and his pals would do this scene for a hundred bucks and lunch" edit - Final Fantasies 1-5 all came out within a 5 year period. The move to 3D/2.5D had it at 2 years between released, and the fully modernized ones starting with 13 are coming out with like 6 year gaps now but it could be argued that it's also just that Sony doesn't want to keep making them/they realized they should've been making catgirl MMOs the whole time Epic High Five fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Jan 31, 2023 |
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Jan 31, 2023 20:55
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I have no idea where else to put this and I just learned about it, but it… loosely fits the theme of this thread, maybe? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/23/dennis-montgomery-cia-al-jazeera quote:The intelligence reports fitted the suspicions of the time: al-Qaida sleeper agents were scattered across the US awaiting orders that were broadcast in secret codes over the al-Jazeera television network.
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Jan 31, 2023 21:25
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https://twitter.com/Eric_Wallace_/status/1620449934863642624
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Jan 31, 2023 23:06
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 Move fast and break (copyright) laws. It's like watching a wasp landing on a stinging nettle.
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Jan 31, 2023 23:18
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I wonder if we will get copyright trolls buying up images that have clearly been used as data sets to sue AI companies with.
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Jan 31, 2023 23:22
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Neo Rasa posted:Didn't they end up not even actually using it in the game (or severely limiting it in some way) because it would always result in some huge clusterfuck NPC riot or something? They used it. Radiant is the name for the entire "people going around doing stuff" system they developed. But it was indeed seriously limited because it kept doing crazy poo poo like the Hungry Guard Incident, which is what you're thinking of. A penniless guard got so hungry they stole food, got caught by the owner, and fought the owner when attacked. All the other guards joined in due to being the same faction, along with the owner's friends. Then stray arrows dragged in literally the whole town until everyone was dead. This all happened outside the view of the character, who returned to turn in a quest or whatever and found a ghost town. They also had issues with NPCs looting crates where the player stashed loot, potentially artifacts, which adds a fun new dimension to bat brawls. That staff that creates a doppelganger of whoever it's used on was a particular problem, because characters were smart enough to use it on the most powerful character nearby, ie the player. Basically, they removed problem cases one by one until they ended up with a system not really noticably different from hard scripted routines. It just didn't require them to literally write scripts for every NPC lol Kwyndig posted:Oh I doubt it, there were so many bugs and weird choices with NPCs in Oblivion (like a character who lives in one town, but for some reason starts in another town 20 miles away, leading to them being killed by bears) that I doubt any kind of coherent group based behavior would result. Characters have their home and other settings configured via a series of forms in the editor. Iirc you can set some stuff via the preview window, but a lot of stuff is set blind, and doing it from the character panel is generally faster. If you click the wrong location ID it won't necessarily be obvious something is wrong unless a tester finds it. Then players just assume that argonian is supposed to be dead in a ditch. Blue Footed Booby fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 00:40
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One part nightmarish, one part strangely compelling to watch https://twitter.com/dendycrew/status/1620446542950993920
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Feb 1, 2023 02:18
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Blue Footed Booby posted:They used it. Radiant is the name for the entire "people going around doing stuff" system they developed. But it was indeed seriously limited because it kept doing crazy poo poo like the Hungry Guard Incident, which is what you're thinking of. The police stealing from a shop keeper and killing him and all his friends is a point for realism tho
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Feb 1, 2023 02:31
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Some company came out with a chatbot that's supposed to help make it easier for medical professionals to generate a differential diagnosis. So initially, you get your standard chuckles out of it https://twitter.com/spiantado/status/1620441729651609602 Then the curtain is pulled back even more https://twitter.com/spiantado/status/1620511367446016000 But then you go crashing right back into the "nightmare" part https://twitter.com/spiantado/status/1620514614877519872
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Feb 1, 2023 03:07
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Anno posted:One part nightmarish, one part strangely compelling to watch It just had a bit about frozen food with an extended warranty and... okay that is a pretty funny concept.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:48
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woke kaczynski posted:Some company came out with a chatbot that's supposed to help make it easier for medical professionals to generate a differential diagnosis. Ehh I see a lot of people somehow surprised that when you talk to a bot designed specifically for medical diagnosis its answers will all be through the lens of medical diagnosis.
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Feb 1, 2023 05:09
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It's somehow the opposite of an expert system in the dumbest way.
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Feb 1, 2023 05:13
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And increasingly on the nose examples of how you can manipulate the tone of the input to get any output you want.Xand_Man posted:Ehh I see a lot of people somehow surprised that when you talk to a bot designed specifically for medical diagnosis its answers will all be through the lens of medical diagnosis. I got some real fun facts for you about the history of medical diagnosis and its relation to social issues!
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Feb 1, 2023 06:10
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The AI Seinfeld channel just had a sketch where a new Chinese restaurant opened and they were worried about the chef dropping chicken liver and feet in the soup. Is all AI doomed to racist tropes?
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Feb 1, 2023 08:31
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No, but all "AI" of this ilk reflects the dataset the developers chose to train it with.
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Feb 1, 2023 09:12
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Tayter Swift posted:The AI Seinfeld channel just had a sketch where a new Chinese restaurant opened and they were worried about the chef dropping chicken liver and feet in the soup. Is all AI doomed to racist tropes? That's not racist, that's a completely plausible recipe and could be totally delicious. Try it, might be good.
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Feb 1, 2023 09:32
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Blue Footed Booby posted:They used it. Radiant is the name for the entire "people going around doing stuff" system they developed. But it was indeed seriously limited because it kept doing crazy poo poo like the Hungry Guard Incident, which is what you're thinking of. This all sounds amazing and makes me wish every game used this AI. RE ChatGPT Vs Crypto: for me the big difference comes from ease of use, real world application, and knowing it's limitations. I've seen a lot of people saying "ChatGPT is poo poo, I asked it to write code and it came back with fundamental errors and bugs!". First of all: I've never known a HUMAN dev whose code didn't need constant rework. Second: that's a very specific use case, and ChatGPT has a lot of low-level beneficial uses. It usually requires human tweaks and intervention, but every great system currently works better as a collaboration. There's a great example in the book Hello World by Hannah Fry: they created an AI to review body scans for traces of cancer, and pitted it against a human doctor. I can't remember the exact figures, but it was something like: humans caught 89% of potentially cancerous cells, but made false negatives (said cells couldn't be cancerous when they could have been). The AI caught 91%, but made false positives (said cells were cancerous when they weren't). But when they had the AI do the first sweep, and then the human reviewed it's work, they caught over 99%. That's where ChatGPT can be useful. Our marketing team often comes to me asking for boilerplate quotes on projects I'm working on or for general insights about our industry . It saves me time to put their requests into ChatGPT, then edit the response to be a bit more personalised from me. I can't remember which writer said, writing is hard, editing is easy, and that's certainly true for me. With Crypto as well, the use cases were always 5-10 years away. Like: I have yet to see a commercially viable implementation of blockchain technology outside of crypto. I remember these articles about how there would never be lost luggage again, as your bag would have a UUID stored on the BLOCKCHAIN! But where are these technologies today? It's been years since this stuff was available. Whereas ChatGPT, if I go on & ask for a 10 day travel itinerary in Italy with Google Maps links for major sites: it returns it in seconds, and while it's not a perfect result, it gives me something to work with.
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Feb 1, 2023 09:53
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Mourning Due posted:I've seen a lot of people saying "ChatGPT is poo poo, I asked it to write code and it came back with fundamental errors and bugs!". First of all: I've never known a HUMAN dev whose code didn't need constant rework. Second: that's a very specific use case, and ChatGPT has a lot of low-level beneficial uses. I can totally see ChatGPT being built into my IDE and creating boiler plate for me. I DO think it has its uses. I just got very annoyed at the constant 'sky is falling' doomerism journalism over it when it first launched, mostly from people who know nothing about AI. It also went all over dev twitter and youtube with very little criticism or talk about its limitation, I guess cos making people afraid of the future of their jobs creates engagement. It does have some similarities to blockchain rush though, mostly the sea of new startups who are just putting a skin over existing AI models and claiming it can replace lawyers or doctors or whatever and getting millions in seed money for zero effort in the process. But that is more an issue with startup and investment culture, not AI itself.
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Feb 1, 2023 10:50
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Anno posted:One part nightmarish, one part strangely compelling to watch Tayter Swift posted:It just had a bit about frozen food with an extended warranty and... okay that is a pretty funny concept. This really is a bizarre and somewhat dystopian trip if you catch it at the right moment. You also can't convince me this isn't what citizens of Yharnam watch in their spare time. For one bit the mask slipped and they started walking around like they broke their backs like spineless FROM Software characters or those googly armed things outside a car dealership. All while they made the most asinine comedy bits ever that occasionally segue into a real joke. Prior to that they were in the corner together, silently walking into each other for an indeterminate amount of time. I can only assume that they were trying to combine and become super Jerry or something in some sort of Cronenbergian display of asinine horror-comedy. Edit: Oh my word the couch is some sort of eldritch abomination. Trying to sit on it does incredible things to a character. Not-George sat down on it and all their joints twisted backwards while he ranted about vegan cheese. Jerry then sat down on it, got devoured, and rose out of it like he was getting raptured while affirming George's desire to try vegan cheese. Edit: Also, scratch that Cronenberg bit. They just figured out how to merge into one comedy golem after an extended bit of wondering if their life was a cosmic joke and george getting ghosted on leaving the apartment to go to a restaurant like three times. Turns out the chair in front of the computer lets multiple people sit in it. The scene immediately cut to a ChatGPT generated channel guide when they did this. 
Archonex fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 14:20
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Tayter Swift posted:It just had a bit about frozen food with an extended warranty and... okay that is a pretty funny concept. I started watching this and the first thing Larry said was "can you imagine us having a real conversation" which was creepy, and then they immediately started about the rise of AI which cause the chat to freak the gently caress out. A good watch
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Feb 1, 2023 14:46
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Aipsh posted:I started watching this and the first thing Larry said was "can you imagine us having a real conversation" which was creepy, and then they immediately started about the rise of AI which cause the chat to freak the gently caress out. A good watch
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Feb 1, 2023 14:52
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That Seinfeld AI program is genius. Thank you for linking it. When I tuned in, they were actually making some relatively decent comedy in a 7-minute conversation on the concept of "breakfast for dinner" and Jerry being forbidden from eating cereal after 9 pm by some unknown force. It broke after about 10 minutes and was just silent for a while, but then it came back with George telling an anecdote about getting into a minor argument with "the pretzel guy" that hard cut away before he could say what the argument was.
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Feb 1, 2023 15:11
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woke kaczynski posted:Some company came out with a chatbot that's supposed to help make it easier for medical professionals to generate a differential diagnosis. Garbage in, Garbage out. Imagine asking this to a doctor, who isn't allowed to say "gently caress off" and MUST answer. The problem with all these ChatGPT models, is people being assholes.
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Feb 1, 2023 15:17
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SniHjen posted:Garbage in, Garbage out. “This is normal” appears to not be a possible “diagnosis” which is a huge problem.
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Feb 1, 2023 15:24
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woke kaczynski posted:Some company came out with a chatbot that's supposed to help make it easier for medical professionals to generate a differential diagnosis. I remember IBM's Watson was supposed to be used for that.
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Feb 1, 2023 15:25
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karthun posted:I remember IBM's Watson was supposed to be used for that. 😃: Watson, tell me a story about a barn. 💻: I'm gay.
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Feb 1, 2023 15:31
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I think the big problem with all the new tech that comes out is that people with money only think about what existing things they can replace instead of thinking of new and novel things to do with it. On top of all that, the existing things usually do that thing better. All the blockchain ideas were all just trying to replace a database poorly. Self driving cars just trying to replace public transit poorly. ML and AI in business applications just replacing excel sheets poorly.
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Feb 1, 2023 16:28
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poemdexter posted:I think the big problem with all the new tech that comes out is that people with money only think about what existing things they can replace instead of thinking of new and novel things to do with it. On top of all that, the existing things usually do that thing better. Vlookups with ~theAlgorithm~
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Feb 1, 2023 16:39
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SniHjen posted:Garbage in, Garbage out. The first couple are mildly entertaining. The one where the response to a 17 year old being gay is that they're probably trans and bipolar is very much not, especially in times where (in the US at least) conversion therapy still exists and there are increasing state attacks on any form of gender nonconformity.
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Feb 1, 2023 16:41
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