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Never played the games but the Bill/Frank episode was absolutely amazing. What I don't understand is why they'd choose to devote almost an entire episode to 2 people you're not going to see back anymore or explain much of the history/backstory of other characters. This whole arch doesn't do much for the main story at first glance, maybe Joell refer back to these guys in future episodes? The episode itself was absolutely amazing, could've been a stand alone movie if you'd ask me.
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Feb 1, 2023 14:35
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The one woman who Bill slept with is Ellie’s mother. I’m just loving with you. Or am I?
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Feb 1, 2023 14:42
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LochNessMonster posted:Never played the games but the Bill/Frank episode was absolutely amazing. What I don't understand is why they'd choose to devote almost an entire episode to 2 people you're not going to see back anymore or explain much of the history/backstory of other characters. This whole arch doesn't do much for the main story at first glance, maybe Joell refer back to these guys in future episodes? The episode itself was absolutely amazing, could've been a stand alone movie if you'd ask me. Partly, it's a way for the show to tackle the game's episodic structure in a way that mirrors the content of the game without being repetitive from episode to episode. Partly, the show's establishing a foil for characters and situations that unfold in the first and second game. And partly, it's just because it's a cool thing to do. The various acts in the first Last Of Us don't really relate to each other narratively, beyond featuring the same two leads; two parts set up material for the second game (the first half of 'Autumn' and 'Spring'), but the others are just largely stand alone adventures. A lot of supporting characters come and go.
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Feb 1, 2023 15:03
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LochNessMonster posted:Never played the games but the Bill/Frank episode was absolutely amazing. What I don't understand is why they'd choose to devote almost an entire episode to 2 people you're not going to see back anymore or explain much of the history/backstory of other characters. This whole arch doesn't do much for the main story at first glance, maybe Joell refer back to these guys in future episodes? The episode itself was absolutely amazing, could've been a stand alone movie if you'd ask me. Bill is the turning point in the story where Joel begins to devote himself to keeping Ellie safe instead of just turning her over to the Fireflies and forgetting about her. In the game, Bill is an example of a selfish prick who is now alone after losing the only person left that he cared about. In the show, they went the opposite way and is an example of what happiness can still be found if you aren't being a selfish prick. In both instances, Joel has never dealt with the trauma of losing his daughter, now just lost his partner of who-knows-how-long, and is being asked to risk his life for this girl he barely knows to save a humanity he doesn't care about. In the games, though, Bill was much less fleshed out character and closer to a plot device that introduced a new zombie type and a few new weapons, and got you a truck to get to the next level (Pittsburgh).
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Feb 1, 2023 15:10
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LochNessMonster posted:Never played the games but the Bill/Frank episode was absolutely amazing. What I don't understand is why they'd choose to devote almost an entire episode to 2 people you're not going to see back anymore or explain much of the history/backstory of other characters. This whole arch doesn't do much for the main story at first glance, maybe Joell refer back to these guys in future episodes? The episode itself was absolutely amazing, could've been a stand alone movie if you'd ask me. you're also told indirectly that joel and tess have been together for 16 years, which makes you wonder in which ways those two could be said to be happy, having survived everything and found each other. what even is happiness and a strong relationship in a world like this. and how does someone balance the vulnerability of love versus the devastation of loss bill (a bit on the nose as we've talked before regarding the letter) found his purpose in living for someone else the revelation of tess and joel is actually a huge piece of storytelling that almost serves at the equivalent of the implied relationship between bill and frank in the game without being more explicit as to the exact nature of it. here, instead, we centre bill and frank this time, which in a way is a callback to how the videogames did it the other way around. and the episode also serves as an expansion of a beloved character in the game but there's of course also the irony in how bill and frank found some form of happiness in shunning the rest of humankind, including choosing not to help other people beyond ways that benefitted themselves - presumably, as bill implies. it's a personal triumph that's not shared with anyone else, beyond the words and lessons bill imparts on joel kliras fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 15:20
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In the game, you get a lot of funny bantering between Bill and Ellie, which are very funny, but also tonally inconsistent with the grim dark bill subplot, and overall story. I think game has more of the tonal swing because whenever Joel and Tess go to work, they are ruthless zombie killing commandos.
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Feb 1, 2023 15:24
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stephenthinkpad posted:In the game, you get a lot of funny bantering between Bill and Ellie, which are very funny, but also tonally inconsistent with the grim dark bill subplot, and overall story. I think game has more of the tonal swing because whenever Joel and Tess go to work, they are ruthless zombie killing commandos. kind of how anime has to stylistically dial a lot of emotions up. or how older movies at times seemed overdramatic because they had to account for microphones that couldn't pick up the dialogue otherwise back then, it was also slightly subversive or unusual for a kid like ellie to swear that much in a game. nowadays, it's obviously the most normal thing in the world
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Feb 1, 2023 15:27
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Appreciate filling me in on the game story, differences and and reasoning behind it. Helps seeing a bit beyond just what was shown in the episode. Really enjoyed the first 2 episodes but this one blew those out of the water. I wouldn’t mind if they’d do a Bill/Frank spinoff.
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Feb 1, 2023 15:36
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I have a feeling the “all these zombies are part of a giant fungal neural network” thing is only going to be used when convenient and forgotten about multiple times. I really wish they hadn’t included it.
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Feb 1, 2023 17:49
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TheBizzness posted:I have a feeling the “all these zombies are part of a giant fungal neural network” thing is only going to be used when convenient and forgotten about multiple times. I don't know why you'd assume that. It's pretty easy to work around - they only use it in populated areas where the fungus has visibly taken over. Which is precisely one location we've seen so far. The next big infected area we'll see (assuming they don't do the hotel basement - as they've already done the lobby bit) is the sewers - which ends with all the infected in the area swarming after the group. So it works there.
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Feb 1, 2023 17:50
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It’s just a really easy thing to screw up. I hope they don’t.
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Feb 1, 2023 17:57
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It something dies next to a patch of moist crud, it’s alarm bell time. If something dies in a largely clear spot 3 floors up, it’s fine. I really wouldn’t worry to much, it’s the emotional and thematic side of things that’s important, not the darn zombo mechanics.
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Feb 1, 2023 18:50
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TheBizzness posted:I have a feeling the “all these zombies are part of a giant fungal neural network” thing is only going to be used when convenient and forgotten about multiple times. Much like the spore clouds in the game, it's only used as a plot driver.
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Feb 1, 2023 19:10
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LochNessMonster posted:Never played the games but the Bill/Frank episode was absolutely amazing. What I don't understand is why they'd choose to devote almost an entire episode to 2 people you're not going to see back anymore or explain much of the history/backstory of other characters. This whole arch doesn't do much for the main story at first glance, maybe Joell refer back to these guys in future episodes? The episode itself was absolutely amazing, could've been a stand alone movie if you'd ask me. Bill’s letter tells Joel that he has to protect Tess. Joel failed at that and it hurts so now it’s even more hammered into his head that he has to protect Ellie. This will be weighing on him when he finds out the fireflies are going to kill Ellie to find a cure
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Feb 1, 2023 19:19
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After the leaks I had no desire to play TLOU2. Not because I didn't think Joel deserved some kind of comeuppance for his actions, or that I thought he and Ellie should have some saccharine ending together, just because I became aware of having to play as Abby after that event (and for large parts of the game), and because I loved the first game so much, and that version of Ellie & Joel, I can't imagine myself wanting to do that. I wanted DLC for the first game, not a torturous slog which boils down to "you liked that character? well gently caress you". I'm sure it's a great game, but I feel like it's one that has been written to punitively attack fans of the first one. Show is great though, so *shrug* Durzel fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 19:32
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Durzel posted:I'm sure it's a great game, but I feel like it's one that has been written to punitively attack fans of the first one. I cannot believe that this is something people really feel is a real thing, but I keep seeing it said. It’s written to tell a story that they want to tell. E: it’s okay for characters to enter or exit a story. Joel’s story got told. He made his choices then he faced consequences. How is that an attack on anyone? zelah fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 19:39
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Durzel posted:not a torturous slog which boils down to "you liked that character? well gently caress you". It's not this at all. You should play it, it's great. Also I'll never understand why anyone would willingly read leaks for a story they're invested in.
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Feb 1, 2023 19:42
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Yeah, the point of playing as Abby (and introducing characters like Lev) is to have you empathize with her after just seeing her as the villain. One of the reasons that the ending is so rough is that if you're reacting as intended, you don't want to see Ellie or Abby die.
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Feb 1, 2023 19:46
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Steve Yun posted:Bill’s letter tells Joel that he has to protect Tess. Joel failed at that and it hurts so now it’s even more hammered into his head that he has to protect Ellie. This will be weighing on him when he finds out the fireflies are going to kill Ellie to find a cure that just seems unnecessary? the game made joels actions at that point completely understandable without any letter clumsily spelling it out imho
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Feb 1, 2023 19:48
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stev posted:It's not this at all. You should play it, it's great.
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Feb 1, 2023 19:52
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Durzel posted:After the leaks I had no desire to play TLOU2. Not because I didn't think Joel deserved some kind of comeuppance for his actions, or that I thought he and Ellie should have some saccharine ending together, just because I became aware of having to play as Abby after that event (and for large parts of the game), and because I loved the first game so much, and that version of Ellie & Joel, I can't imagine myself wanting to do that. I wanted DLC for the first game, not a torturous slog which boils down to "you liked that character? well gently caress you". Nope. It's heavy but it's a great heavy if that's your thing. The final scene still breaks my heart in a beautiful way
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Feb 1, 2023 19:53
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I guess it's the medium I'm struggling with. If it were non-interactive (and with this show it might well be soon) then I'd probably engage because the alternative is just abruptly stopping watching the show. As it is, as I understand it anyway, you start playing as Abby directly after the event and for a considerable time thereafter. What I'm saying - simplistically perhaps - is that I'm too invested in Ellie and Joel to want to play as her, and from the sounds of it the game expects you to swallow your hate and play out Abby's story to possibly emphathise with her along the way. I'd loathe controlling her, and the game making me control her, and can imagine myself not engaging with her story (and the wider story) as a consequence. My perception is that the way the game has been written to force people to control Abby is an oppressive narrative choice. I can live without playing it, I guess I'm saying. The second game took the story in a direction I didn't like, so choose not to consume it, and my head canon is that it doesn't exist. I can accept this isn't a particluarly rational point of view, though. It is certainly rooted in raw emotion, such is the gravitas of the first game.
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Feb 1, 2023 20:03
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am0kgonzo posted:that just seems unnecessary? The most forced part of an excellent episode of television, IMO. After shifting the focus away from Joel and Ellie for an entire hour, I assume the writers felt compelled to relate the side story to the main plot but it was a little clumsy. I've been really liking this show so far but can't help but hate-read The Last of Us II cope subreddit after each episode airs. What is the name of this condition?
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Feb 1, 2023 20:16
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Durzel posted:As it is, as I understand it anyway, you start playing as Abby directly after the event and for a considerable time thereafter. quote:The second game took the story in a direction I didn't like, so choose not to consume it, and my head canon is that it doesn't exist.
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Feb 1, 2023 20:19
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Someone who had Lou Gehrig’s disease in his family is of the opinion that that was what Frank had Says he would’ve done the same thing
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Feb 1, 2023 20:20
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Durzel posted:As it is, as I understand it anyway, you start playing as Abby directly after the event and for a considerable time thereafter. What I'm saying - simplistically perhaps - is that I'm too invested in Ellie and Joel to want to play as her, and from the sounds of it the game expects you to swallow your hate and play out Abby's story to possibly emphathise with her along the way. I'd loathe controlling her, and the game making me control her, and can imagine myself not engaging with her story (and the wider story) as a consequence. My perception is that the way the game has been written to force people to control Abby is an oppressive narrative choice. After the big Pro Golf moment happens, you don’t even see Abby again for maybe 10-15 hours, depending how fast/slow you take it sneaking/murdering through Seattle. You let a load of half-truths and false assumptions prevent you from engaging with a great, albeit at times emotionally devastating, experience. poo poo, I was spoiled on it too because it was nigh on unavoidable like you say, and sure, I wanted to go full Kill Bill when I reached that part too but there were still loads of wonderful surprises ahead and some very poignant and touching moments. It’s not necessarily a joyous story with happy ending but it was one well worth experiencing.
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Feb 1, 2023 20:24
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TheBizzness posted:I have a feeling the “all these zombies are part of a giant fungal neural network” thing is only going to be used when convenient and forgotten about multiple times. All scripted drama needs plot devices, and zombies themselves are just a plot device. But honestly this is a much better way than the games, where it's just "spores", and they only show up as a signal to the player that there's infected nearby. They've already done a good job in the series at putting a rational limit on the "fungal network" by having the dry, dead, disconnected fungus at the museum.
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Feb 1, 2023 20:24
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stev posted:It's not this at all. You should play it, it's great. I haven't played TLoU2 yet and got it spoiled for me just randomly on a reddit thread about a different video game. But it didn't really surprise me because Joel isn't on the cover of the game. Obviously something happened to him.
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Feb 1, 2023 20:27
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acksplode posted:Nope. You start playing as Abby around the game's halfway point, after you've seen/made Ellie carry out some extreme violence culminating in the death of a pregnant woman. At that moment Ellie hates herself and you probably hate her a little bit too, she doesn't seem so much like the good guy. And the Abby section kicks off by putting you right into the middle of the Wolf/Scar war that Ellie's half of the game danced around, so even if you're put off by playing as her, it hooks you by satisfying some intrigue. Also the gameplay takes an interesting turn, she's stronger than Ellie and better suited for brute force. Not coincidentally, she plays a lot more like Joel. And then before long you're invested in her story and start seeing her as something other than the villain. Sentinel Red posted:After the big Pro Golf moment happens, you don’t even see Abby again for maybe 10-15 hours, depending how fast/slow you take it sneaking/murdering through Seattle. You let a load of half-truths and false assumptions prevent you from engaging with a great, albeit at times emotionally devastating, experience. It sounds like I’ve maybe got a distorted view of it then. I’ll see about checking it out after Dead Space.
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Feb 1, 2023 20:27
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I was in the "why did they need a second one" camp and watched the fanbase response over the last few years and just checked out. The show has made me really want to play it now, if it ever comes to PC.
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Feb 1, 2023 20:35
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In the run up to TLOU2 I thought it was a big risk that could retroactively mess up the perfect ending to the first game, but they totally nailed it. Naughty Dog fully understood why that ending was interesting and made it the core of the sequel's drama.
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Feb 1, 2023 20:38
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Technically you play as Abby for a very brief moment near the start of the game.
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Feb 1, 2023 20:43
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I like how Owen multiple times in the game tries to wrestle a gun out of someone’s hand, leading to things getting worse and people dying
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Feb 1, 2023 20:48
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Xombie posted:I haven't played TLoU2 yet and got it spoiled for me just randomly on a reddit thread about a different video game. But it didn't really surprise me because Joel isn't on the cover of the game. Obviously something happened to him. Steve Yun posted:Someone who had Lou Gehrig’s disease in his family is of the opinion that that was what Frank had
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Feb 1, 2023 20:55
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Is Joel wearing Frank’s flannel shirt after he takes a shower
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Feb 1, 2023 21:02
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Steve Yun posted:Is Joel wearing Frank’s flannel shirt after he takes a shower Yeah. He and Ellie are both wearing their iconic outfits after the shower and the shirt is Frank’s! Neat little Easter egg.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:04
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I appreciate TLoU2 because we are still discussing it years later and people have very strong opinions on it. Much like the ending of the Sopranos, and very much unlike the ending of Game of Thrones, it managed to emotionally engage the audience and provoke discourse on its meaning.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:12
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The next TLOU thing is a live service online game. It'll probably make a gigabillion dollars and be around for years before TLOU3 is a thing, sadly.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:20
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Rental Sting posted:The most forced part of an excellent episode of television, IMO. After shifting the focus away from Joel and Ellie for an entire hour, I assume the writers felt compelled to relate the side story to the main plot but it was a little clumsy. I dunno but I have it too. Other ppl might disagree but wanna see the best of those takes.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:24
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Steve Yun posted:Someone who had Lou Gehrig’s disease in his family is of the opinion that that was what Frank had I thought it was MS. It was clearly some form of muscular dystrophy. But I feel like I'm Congress, trying to diagnose Terry Schiavo through a TV (which is something that happened goddamn).
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Feb 1, 2023 21:26
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