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Is there anything in-game that tells you what the 3 classes actually get access to?
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Feb 4, 2023 10:57
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toasterwarrior posted:Do you always start with goblins as your recruitables in Spellforce: Conquest of Eo? I go Artificer but am very doubtful about investing crafting resources into these chucklefucks considering how fragile they are, unless I really am meant to boost their health to acceptable levels by spamming health glyphs. Goblins have been pretty decent so far in my Artificer run. You want to run all gobbo stacks with a shaman. The arrow rune (six orange elements) and the bleed rune (3 orange, 3 purple) are good on your archers and brawlers respectively. Plus you can research elemental weapons enchantment to give your guys more hitting power.
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Feb 4, 2023 11:56
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Also your starter goblins are unique in they don’t have an upkeep so you should keep them alive.
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Feb 4, 2023 12:06
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I found the Dwarfs, my good ole bearded bois. Spoilers for those who care: Dwarf city is due east of the mountain start position, with some easy beginner quests you can generally push relations into high enough that you can start recruiting basic dwarfs at the location. Doing so also gives them a +15HP buff plus elemental resistance, though from what I see you can't recruit the higher level melee units from the city so you can only get them on the basic units + T2 healers and shooters + T3 fire mage. When that happens, I believe it's best to start recruiting the T2 melee units from your tower + barracks room from maxing out your relationship with the Dwarf city since their base stats are just plain better than than T1 + city recruitment buffs I also found out that you really want to keep investing into your proficiency, even a trickle, as you eventually get more unit slots per stack as you reach thresholds, on top of tower room slots and whatever. Right now I'm hoping someone has a spell list handy since picking a school as your primary gives you an additional page of spells to research vs. having it as a secondary. From what I can see, Earthmaster as primary gives you a bunch of utility spells on your second page that don't seem particularly impressive, so I wonder if Guardian has cooler second page spells. toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Feb 4, 2023 |
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Feb 4, 2023 12:13
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victrix posted:It's not strictly a 4x, I think it feels more like an adventure/rpg/wargame hybrid with a focus on tactical combat and some pretty interesting building and upgrading mechanics (notably, your main 'town' is a floating mage tower you can move around the land to extract resources). Your apprentices build small towns to gather more, and there's a whole tower upgrade system for more economy as well as a crafting system and master of magic-esque spellcasting. oh hey sounds like what Spire of Sorcery should have been
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Feb 4, 2023 13:23
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DrManiac posted:Is there anything in-game that tells you what the 3 classes actually get access to? Each class gets a distinct crafting mechanic, Alchemist can make lots of one shot items usable in battle, everything from basic healing items to potions allowing permanent enslavement of enemy units (items labeled as catalysts have special effects for alchemist crafting, you can ignore that tag on the other two afaik) Artificer can make one use runes with permanent effects on your units (each tier of ore improves the power of the same rune recipe fyi, e.g. one of the greater rune types gives pathfinding for terrain to a whole stack which rules) Necromancer straight up crafts units! Each of the three also has occasional gimmes in rpg events, though that's not really something to plan around
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Feb 4, 2023 13:58
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victrix posted:Each class gets a distinct crafting mechanic, Alchemist can make lots of one shot items usable in battle, everything from basic healing items to potions allowing permanent enslavement of enemy units (items labeled as catalysts have special effects for alchemist crafting, you can ignore that tag on the other two afaik) If somebody asked you how it compared to the Fallen Enchantress series, what would you say?
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Feb 4, 2023 15:01
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Thompsons posted:oh hey sounds like what Spire of Sorcery should have been I’m still pissed about this lol. The only time I’ve actively felt ripped off by a early access game.
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Feb 4, 2023 15:11
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habituallyred posted:If somebody asked you how it compared to the Fallen Enchantress series, what would you say? I would say I think FE is a bad game  (but I will give them at least a few points for trying to fix some 4x issues with sorcerer king, which this game is similar to in some ways) It's much closer to a blend of Age of Wonders and an RPG, in the same way Spellforce itself is a blend of RTS+RPG. You only ever have your tower and any hamlets built by your (limited number of) apprentices. You don't build or conquer cities, you interact with fixed cities on the fixed world map, getting quests, units, blueprints, and items from them if you work on your reputation with that faction. Your "empire" is essentially a traveling mage caravan, because fixed resources deplete as you exploit them within your borders (tower or hamlets), so you're strongly encouraged to pack up and move periodically - which both pushes you into more dangerous lands, and potentially into conflict with the Circle of mages, who are stronger than you out of the gate. Your tower can literally fly, and apprentices can make new hamlets in just a few turns, so moving is easy. Quests and your own decisions will impact how and when you get into fights with the Circle (the members present are random each game afaik). While the map is fixed, the quests (supposedly around 700, with random elements), mages (random selection each game), resources, enemies and more are all different each game, combine that with multiple starting locations around the world and multiple class specialties and spell books, hundreds of units and items, mean that any given play through will be different depending on how you approach it. Speaking of, the map is loving gigantic, and you only need to complete the main quest to win, so while you could theoretically go everywhere and "do everything", I'm not going to be playing like that since it sounds like a good way to burn out.
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Feb 4, 2023 15:24
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Fallen Enchantress but better was the vibe I was getting. I'll give it a go.
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Feb 4, 2023 16:19
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Spellforce is awesome. I don't know quite why it's clicking for me when Songs of Conquest didn't, but it's a ton of fun.
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Feb 5, 2023 10:46
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I picked up Wizards and Warlords which I saw recommended earlier and I've been enjoying it, but I really don't understand how the combat works. I've pretty much been auto-resloving, and if I lose a fight with advantage I reload and do it manually, dumping greater magic missile everywhere and then hitting next turn where I win, but I don't understand the mechanics of why anything happens during the fight.
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Feb 5, 2023 11:03
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Omi no Kami posted:Spellforce is awesome. I don't know quite why it's clicking for me when Songs of Conquest didn't, but it's a ton of fun. I'm probably just bad but songs of conquest was just too drat hard for me, it's a neat game otherwise
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Feb 5, 2023 12:13
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GodFish posted:I picked up Wizards and Warlords which I saw recommended earlier and I've been enjoying it, but I really don't understand how the combat works. I've pretty much been auto-resloving, and if I lose a fight with advantage I reload and do it manually, dumping greater magic missile everywhere and then hitting next turn where I win, but I don't understand the mechanics of why anything happens during the fight. Are you using the new grid system or the old "battlefield of the mind" setting? I remember a little bit about the old system and its quirks but can't say much about the new one. What sort of units are you using and what are you up against? Hiring units from your tower without a barracks or archery range is usually a waste of money. Trained troops will take forever to make without a trainer, but they can be well worth it. If you want to put marks on units you also need the Enchanting lore and miscellaneous resources. Wisps and most other summon anywhere things are bad. Make sure to look and see that you aren't trying to fight ghosts with physical weapons. Basically we need more information for non obvious advice.
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Feb 5, 2023 12:43
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sebmojo posted:I'm probably just bad but songs of conquest was just too drat hard for me, it's a neat game otherwise Once you get a handle on its magic system, the current AI is completely helpless. I'm not sure it'll change with an improved AI, unless they go heavily into giving it premade spell casting routines. Currently, the AI doesn't even understand that some spells expire on the unit's turn, and not the full battle round, so it keeps burning mana on nothing.
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Feb 5, 2023 13:05
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sebmojo posted:I'm probably just bad but songs of conquest was just too drat hard for me, it's a neat game otherwise It seemed tough to me as well.
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Feb 5, 2023 13:11
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habituallyred posted:Are you using the new grid system or the old "battlefield of the mind" setting? I remember a little bit about the old system and its quirks but can't say much about the new one. Even these questions were pretty helpful. It looks like I've been using the old system, but I might give the grid based one a try to see if it makes things a bit more clear. I've been using an army with Wisps, Wardancers and Stimenn, and another with Wisps and Wreckers, but they were all trained from my non-barracks tower. I've got a pretty decent income and two towns, so I'll work on improving my military infrastructure, hopefully that should help a bit.
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Feb 5, 2023 20:12
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Conquest of Eo question: how do you *stop* enchanting a unit? It seems like this should be obvious…
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Feb 5, 2023 20:23
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GodFish posted:Even these questions were pretty helpful. The old system is neat, but needed some more time in the oven. Skirmishing with ranged weapons is great, and the main exception to the recruiting from tower rule is militia with javelins. Fun recollection: your archers will fire earlier in the battle if you order your forces to charge vs. telling them to hold. Very handy with double bow golems.
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Feb 5, 2023 20:33
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Dav posted:Conquest of Eo question: how do you *stop* enchanting a unit? top right widget:  e: also confirming Hard is, in fact, hard victrix fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Feb 5, 2023 |
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Feb 5, 2023 21:00
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Spell list for Conquest of Eo is out: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2928702566 As I was suspecting, Guardian is actually better than Earthmaster for stacking unit buffs :v Time to reroll. And yes, even Balanced difficulty doesn't gently caress around. Play the diff previous that to experience the game first and learn the mechanics, IMO. There's a lot going on.
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Feb 5, 2023 23:27
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Another ping on playing on a lower difficulty. I am a 4x vet but first spellforce game, and the medium difficulty does not mess around with scaling difficulty. Have found a funny combo though, on my earthmaster apprentice I got the earth armor skill, 50% physical resist for 2 focus. I can throw it on a wisp with native 50%, pops it up to 100% and physical damage enemies might as well treat it as an environmental object since they can't damage it.
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Feb 5, 2023 23:32
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habituallyred posted:The old system is neat, but needed some more time in the oven. Skirmishing with ranged weapons is great, and the main exception to the recruiting from tower rule is militia with javelins. Fun recollection: your archers will fire earlier in the battle if you order your forces to charge vs. telling them to hold. Very handy with double bow golems. Yeah, as the person who originally brought it up the old system is trash. Keep in mind that, barring alterations to the gameplay i'm not aware of, resources matter. Being able to churn out adamantine golems every five or so turns is incredible if you get a good start or manage to find a way to discover a deposit. You can also play the global commodities market once you have a solid intake of rare resources to make bank for all sorts of experimental stuff, including experimenting on magical items and the like to see what you like. Aside from that, treat the game as more of a living world sim where you're either an rear end in a top hat wizard in a tower, a nation state, or a warlord. There's enough randomly occurring events that might pop off over the course of a game (not that you're guaranteed to see them, mind) that you can replay it more than a few times if the gameplay loop tickles your fancy. Archonex fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Feb 6, 2023 |
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Feb 5, 2023 23:47
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Jesus, Explorer vs Balanced diffs in Conquest of Eo are night and day. Even while knowing what I'm technically supposed to be doing after two early runs, I'm sure that a Balanced AI would've been kicking my loving head in at around half the total playtime I put into this one. I'm tempted to start over on Balanced but I'm certain that I do not have the tempo knowledge to pull that off.
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Feb 6, 2023 09:02
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The starting positions make a big difference for me as well. Although I haven't played far enough to see if that makes a difference in the later difficulty curve. With the necromancer the easiest start actually makes it a bit more difficult to find higher tier souls for your good units.
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Feb 6, 2023 09:47
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spellforce is too hard imo, it's like you play with the maximum amount of Fallen Empires in Stellaris and also you get -5 to their rep every 12 turns also it needs a dedicated End Turn button that I can rebind to Mouse 4 or Space or whatever
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Feb 6, 2023 11:17
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backspace, bind it with ahk or whatever (devs said more key stuff coming) Yeah Hard is absurd, I'm pretty sure I lost this game months ago, but I'm playing it out for the practice, I'll bump it down one and try another location for the next game Multiple doom stacks of mixed t3/t2 from every circle mage while I have t2 at best, every roaming pack is 7 units 
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Feb 6, 2023 14:46
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victrix posted:top right widget: Thanks!
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Feb 6, 2023 15:12
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it seems there might be ways at least to get friendly with circle mages no idea if you can ever ally them although im my currently playthrough im at war with hokan and this is probably over within a few months
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Feb 6, 2023 15:37
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Hokan has a quest where you get massive rep, I had problems with the dude that's bullying you for gold, one turn I couldn't pay (well I had the gold but also negative cashflow) and it was instant war :/
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Feb 6, 2023 16:50
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First game I played that I stopped around week 13. I had gotten two or three circle mage quests to raise rep with them. Second game at the same point now, have gotten zero quests. Both games. I had only met two mages, maybe having more mages on deck helps?
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Feb 6, 2023 17:28
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there's a point in the main story where you get directly involved with the circle, it implies there is a peaceful route, but I'm not certain the best way to do that - once they hit cold war they're happy to attack your stacks and take your hamlets, and your rep will spiral if you retaliate in general doing stuff in an area seems to trigger quests related to that area, so you may be able to do the same thing near mages
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Feb 6, 2023 17:53
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Actually now that I think about it, I did get 3 circle mage quests. They were all hostile against the mage I had already decided I would be fighting, the red demon guy. I had also picked the hostile options in the earlier main quest choices, so those probably do dictate whether you get more hostile or friendly options. One quest I got was to fight to free a captive demon from the mage, which got me a T3 wendigo. Edit: it's also only -6 relationship to burn one of their wizard towers, which opens that entire space up for you. Moonshine Rhyme fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Feb 6, 2023 |
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Feb 6, 2023 18:27
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Has anyone had luck using archers in Spellforce? They carried me through the early game but once I started pushing into nearby regions and fighting higher-tier units with bigger health pools it feels like they dropped off fast.Goa Tse-tung posted:spellforce is too hard imo, it's like you play with the maximum amount of Fallen Empires in Stellaris and also you get -5 to their rep every 12 turns fwiw it does have a dedicated end turn button - Backspace - but I'm not sure if you can rebind it. You can also seek out the fallen empires (the circle mages) and talk to them (somehow?) to get quests to gain rep with them. I can't remember how I did this but I somehow opened a dialog with one and got to select from multiple quests, like you can when visiting a city. I think if they're already hostile to you though, you might only be able to attack them. e: Also a tip for anyone who is playing alchemist and feels underwhelmed - I was too until I started crafting potions out of multiple elements  All the single-element potions were really underwhelming to me, but once you start mixing them they get fantastic, like e.g. 3Elemental/3Life = a potion that gives the target +3 missile range.And another thing that was not immediately obvious to me is that you can move your lodge whenever you want. When it first introduces the concept of lodges it says something like "each apprentice can only build one lodge, so think about where you place it!" which made me think it was a one-and-done and avoid placing them for a long time, but you can rebuild it in a new location whenever. That and flying your tower around are literally how you get resource nodes so, do it early and do it often
deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Feb 6, 2023 |
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Feb 6, 2023 20:40
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deep dish peat moss posted:
Your apprentices respawn at their lodges after a few turns if they get stack wiped. e. and each apprentice can build a lodge NoNotTheMindProbe fucked around with this message at 11:01 on Feb 7, 2023 |
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Feb 7, 2023 10:55
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deep dish peat moss posted:Has anyone had luck using archers in Spellforce? They carried me through the early game but once I started pushing into nearby regions and fighting higher-tier units with bigger health pools it feels like they dropped off fast. Starting off in the mountain areas, the beast stacks would be filled with moles and snow leopards, both of which can literally get into melee with your army from the first turn without you getting to respond. I didn't bother with ranged units and just stacked dwarf moleriders, who were the complete package of tough, strong in melee (they have daze on attack, very good), and great movement with a healer and hero/apprentice. I went Artificer with double Guardian books for tall play and you can get some serious buffs on your guys: I had a global enchantment that gave +4 white damage to all units capable of white damage, and the Holy Weapons enchant does just that plus +3 white damage, paired with Bless which makes your guys always do max damage per attack. I was in the middle of freeing up more mana for more enchants too; I could've gotten a +2 armor and death damage resist buff for 2 mana per unit, or a +6 damage vs demon/undead buff for 1 mana per unit, which is super fuckin' nasty and basically a hard counter to any rival circle mage running undead or demons. It's a very interesting game, a far more successful attempt at a story-based 4x than I've seen in a field full of failed and flawed games. That said, I think I might wait for the first patch before going back in again, the devs have acknowledged that the pacing can be off and I ran into a quest bug that would softlock me (duplicate quest causing the second copy to have no proceeding dialogue option to exit out). I know now what to do, but I could use some more meta knowledge on how to maximize my Artificer play since all I do is just spam 3 green glyphs and dumping them en masse on my units for an easy +20 health. Surely there's some more tricks I could do. EDIT: Actually, the whole ranged thing reminds me of AoW3, where in late game the real kings of the battlefield were high HP, high melee damage beatsticks. Ranged units just can't compare, especially since all it takes to shut them down is to get into melee with them. toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Feb 8, 2023 |
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Feb 8, 2023 09:07
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the pacing is def a bit off it starts off decent and then like a month later you get constant enemy stacks of 7-8 tier 2-3 units (this is on balanced) it could also maybe use a diplomacy system
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Feb 8, 2023 19:13
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There's definitely a hump to cross with the first spike of difficulty. I had to consolidate my stacks and make a strong stack for the big threats until my economy could handle supporting full. T2 armies?
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Feb 8, 2023 19:41
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Good way into my artificer game now, and regretting I didn't beeline adamantium earlier. Not sure if Necro or alchemists have a similar peak meta resource but it's making me think that heading straight out for it would be the ideal. (Not that I knew where the adamantium was in the first place though).
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Feb 9, 2023 18:38
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This spellforce game is interesting. Only a couple of months into my first campaign, but I really like the domain + apprentice system. I'd probably steal the hell out of the concept if I ever made a game in the genre myself, since micromanagement outscaling player interest is it's biggest problem imo. It's almost like an AoW-style take on the agents system from Shadows of Forbidden Gods, trying to solve the same design problem from a slightly different perspective. I can also stomach the tactical combat (usually a hard no for me these days) far better, because the game isn't pretending to be a symmetrical contest between equal powers. Corbeau fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Feb 9, 2023 |
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Feb 9, 2023 21:16
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