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mind the walrus posted:I describe it unironically as "What if the Avengers were a family of racist Irish New Yorkers?" It's the same thing that leads Paul Ryan to have Rage Against the Machine as his favorite band. They don't actually pay attention to the art they claim to enjoy.
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Feb 5, 2023 00:57
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Push El Burrito posted:It's the same thing that leads Paul Ryan to have Rage Against the Machine as his favorite band. They don't actually pay attention to the art they claim to enjoy. A fair portion of it too is that a lot of people are deluded enough to believe that THEY'RE the plucky rebels going up against the evil empire. They want the Resistance's theme music, but they also want to wear the Stormtrooper's boots.
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Feb 5, 2023 01:04
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Push El Burrito posted:It's the same thing that leads Paul Ryan to have Rage Against the Machine as his favorite band. They don't actually pay attention to the art they claim to enjoy. Fascists LIKE to PURPOSEFULLY co-opt art "wrong" because the very act of RAPING the original intent over protest with their superior brute force appeals to them, that's PART of what makes them fascist. As always, the cruelty IS the point. the_steve posted:A fair portion of it too is that a lot of people are deluded enough to believe that THEY'RE the plucky rebels going up against the evil empire. It's actually impressive how they set all that up with the Stormtrooper/First Order crap in the Star Wars sequels and then did absolutely nothing with it.
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Feb 5, 2023 02:40
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They understand irony as having destabilizing potential. Look at how they co-opt black cultural productions. The first nazi thing I remember from the internet was white kids having a laugh about Lil B by posting about how great he was.
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Feb 5, 2023 02:43
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The closest way to rationalize B99 is to imagine that they are a precinct of mythical good (ok, decent) cops. Notably one of them resigns when she sees the size of the systemic issues outside of her own precinct rather than being part of a clearly horrible institution.
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Feb 5, 2023 03:17
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The karaoke machine at the bar near my work changes the lyrics to "Some of those that work forces, are the ones who bear crosses"
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Feb 5, 2023 03:25
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The goddamn AV Club ran an article during the height of the very justified 2020 rioting to say that while it was obvious to attentive viewers that B99 had actively tried to avoid being copaganda-- much like the producer's prior work "The Office" and "Parks & Rec" it just wanted to be an urban version of creepy parasocial sitcom for lonely drones--all those efforts did was create a weird fantasy where this one precinct is this lone island of virtue in an absolute ocean of virulent garbage.
mind the walrus has a new favorite as of 03:28 on Feb 5, 2023 |
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Feb 5, 2023 03:25
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It should have just been a different workplace to begin with, it would lose almost nothing if it was a radionstation or a restaurant or a space station instead of cops
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Feb 5, 2023 03:30
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well why not posted:I like how cop shows have Internal Affairs show up and they’re super evil, scummy and unnecessary. Sorry for expecting the police to have some level of standards enforced; I guess? SVU knowingly skirt the rules constantly and are shocked that they’re scrutinised. Schubalts posted:A cop show where the cops actually do their jobs well and get rid of dangerous idiot cops sounds like a good cop show. Idealistic, competent cops that root out police corruption are universes better than shows that glorify dangerous idiot cops who are allowed to get away with whatever they want.
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Feb 5, 2023 03:37
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Mystery of the week is a good format and people like it. It seems like they could avoid a lot of uncomfortable topics and a sea of well-entrenched competition if networks started making shows about private detectives. P.I.'s still exist, you could get your crime solving comfort food TV, and also have more freedom creatively. Seems like a simple solution to me.
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Feb 5, 2023 03:37
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Crowetron posted:Mystery of the week is a good format and people like it. It seems like they could avoid a lot of uncomfortable topics and a sea of well-entrenched competition if networks started making shows about private detectives. P.I.'s still exist, you could get your crime solving comfort food TV, and also have more freedom creatively. Seems like a simple solution to me. Time is a flat circle.
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Feb 5, 2023 03:45
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mind the walrus posted:What if the Avengers 
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Feb 5, 2023 03:58
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Push El Burrito posted:It's the same thing that leads Paul Ryan to have Rage Against the Machine as his favorite band. They don't actually pay attention to the art they claim to enjoy. I think its more because pretty much everybody barely pays attention to lyrics aside from rote memorization so they can sing along to it. Its why songs with ultra-depressing lyrics constantly shows up in inappropriate places. People care about the beat, not the message. Pretty much the only time people care about the lyrics is when they are looking for a reason to call somebody out.
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Feb 5, 2023 04:59
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IShallRiseAgain posted:I think its more because pretty much everybody barely pays attention to lyrics aside from rote memorization so they can sing along to it. Its why songs with ultra-depressing lyrics constantly shows up in inappropriate places. People care about the beat, not the message. Pretty much the only time people care about the lyrics is when they are looking for a reason to call somebody out. Semi-Charmed Life is still one of the greatest examples of this phenomena. The public will sing along about extorting their girlfriends for amphetamines if the tune is merry enough! I dunno how many peppy as all hell Vocaloid songs I've listened to over the years and then found out that Hatsune Miku was pouring her heart out about getting bullied in school. edit: The phenomena itself is kind of wonderful though and adds a lot of depth to music even if it can be misappropriated by weird politicians. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 05:18 on Feb 5, 2023 |
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Feb 5, 2023 05:15
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IShallRiseAgain posted:I think its more because pretty much everybody barely pays attention to lyrics aside from rote memorization so they can sing along to it. Its why songs with ultra-depressing lyrics constantly shows up in inappropriate places. People care about the beat, not the message. Pretty much the only time people care about the lyrics is when they are looking for a reason to call somebody out. Pretty much yeah. Folks can just... like things. There doesn't need to be some great stupidity where they're not aware of the lyrical content of what they're listening to. My dad is an aerospace engineer who's been a lifelong hardline R voter and RATM has been one of his favorite bands since Evil Empire. He's not dumb (except politically), he absolutely knows that they are extremely anti-everything-he-believes, he knows about all the lyrics and all the stunts they've pulled in concerts as protest and all the inflammatory statements they've made about Bush, but he doesn't care because the music sounds good.
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Feb 5, 2023 05:20
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M5-7RbOV9s&t=26s
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Feb 5, 2023 05:26
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ishikabibble posted:Pretty much yeah. Folks can just... like things. There doesn't need to be some great stupidity where they're not aware of the lyrical content of what they're listening to. I think that's all pretty reasonable as long as he doesn't act shocked when Tom Morello expresses an opinion or walk out of a concert because they did Politics at it.
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Feb 5, 2023 06:10
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Improbable Lobster posted:It should have just been a different workplace to begin with, it would lose almost nothing if it was a radionstation or a restaurant or a space station instead of cops And now I really want to find that page with the Deep Space 99 memes.
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Feb 5, 2023 06:16
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Improbable Lobster posted:It should have just been a different workplace to begin with, it would lose almost nothing if it was a radionstation or a restaurant or a space station instead of cops Much like Parks & Rec it feels like people making it didn't really realize that it's not just quirky workers but people who have a serious effect on the world around them, and once they realized Andre Braugher was on the table--and to be fair, he really anchors the poo poo out of that show-- the whole metajoke about Homicide: Life on the Street made the cop thing seem like a much better idea. Sucks too because that cast really is the best out of any of those three shows.
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Feb 5, 2023 06:24
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CJacobs posted:Semi-Charmed Life is still one of the greatest examples of this phenomena. The public will sing along about extorting their girlfriends for amphetamines if the tune is merry enough! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSA6pZjoFQg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps03G7WUTXY (Note the changed lyrics in the Chipmunks cover)
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Feb 5, 2023 07:18
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More like oldPostSlashAVcombo
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Feb 5, 2023 07:25
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mind the walrus posted:Much like Parks & Rec it feels like people making it didn't really realize that it's not just quirky workers but people who have a serious effect on the world around them, and once they realized Andre Braugher was on the table--and to be fair, he really anchors the poo poo out of that show-- the whole metajoke about Homicide: Life on the Street made the cop thing seem like a much better idea. I feel like that all ties into the whole End of History liberal mindset that those jobs don't really matter and it's just a more interesting backdrop than a generic office job. Which at least worked alright for 30 Rock, where the joke is that the not-SNL they work on is almost entirely complete garbage that runs on momentum and star power.
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Feb 5, 2023 07:34
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I think I brought it up in this very thread, maybe another one, but another reason for copaganda is that in a lot of ways it's arguably the easiest way to do a TV show that is grounded in reality. Cops are, if you believe their job is to investigate crime and apprehend criminals (lol it's not), essentially professional protagonists. A lot of the thorny details in writing are immediately solved simply by making you main characters cops. Why are they involved in the plot? Because it's their job. Why are people willing to help them or talk to them? Because they are authority figures. Why are they stumbling into a mystery every single week? Because that's their literal job. Why do they get to be armed? 'Cause their cops. Etc etc. Like if you're a lazy or mediocre writer, making your lead a cop is a godsend. In the past you had private investigators as an option, but that isn't really the same in stories set in the modern day. If you have an episodic series based around some sort crime and want your protagonist to be somehow getting involved every single week, then making them a cop is kind of the simplest and easiest way to go about that. I'm not for a second denying there is deliberate copaganda, too, Dick Wolf has said as much, and this still doesn't explain stuff like why defense attorneys and IA are villainized and other problemati issues, but yeah. I highly suspect a lot of times the basic impetus for a cop show is simply that it's very easy and solves a lot of basic writing problems and lets you get right down into the stuff you and the audience are more interested in; the characters and the crimes.
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Feb 5, 2023 08:26
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Recently re watched A Mighty Wind and it's just as good as I remember. Until the very last scene where they put Harry Shearer In a wig and the whole joke is "haha, this deep voiced man thinks he's a woman." Right up there with a Christmas Story on terms of a perfectly nice movie that fumbles the ball at the last second.
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Feb 5, 2023 08:34
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:In the past you had private investigators as an option, but that isn't really the same in stories set in the modern day. Naw they're still super popular, a lot of them just morphed into amateur enthusiasts like Miss Marples, Jessica Fletcher, podcast hosts, etc.. Sherlock Holmes adaptations are still going strong as well. You've also got Magnum PI and The Equalizer (both recently rebooted), Monk, Jack Reacher, etc etc etc.. The classic 'Sam Spade' hardboiled noir PIs were just one variation on the genre.
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Feb 5, 2023 08:41
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Crowetron posted:Mystery of the week is a good format and people like it. It seems like they could avoid a lot of uncomfortable topics and a sea of well-entrenched competition if networks started making shows about private detectives. P.I.'s still exist, you could get your crime solving comfort food TV, and also have more freedom creatively. Seems like a simple solution to me. I wish they brought back the format of the first two seasons of Miami Vice where every week was an ultra nihilistic mowing down of wave after wave of cocaine or weapons smugglers in miami by two guys in a Ferrari set to a Phil Collins song
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Feb 5, 2023 08:44
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Naw they're still super popular, a lot of them just morphed into amateur enthusiasts like Miss Marples, Jessica Fletcher, podcast hosts, etc.. Sherlock Holmes adaptations are still going strong as well. Huh, nice. Had no idea. I was under the impression PIs these days mostly just did 'I think my wife is cheating on me' and insurance related 'we think this guy is faking the severity of his injuries!' stuff. But yeah. I still think that at least half the appeal of copaganda, from the POV of the creators, is less ideological and more just practical. That said, it varies from show to show. Blue Bloods is pretty nakedly cryptofascist propaganda in a way that even Law and Order SVU isn't quite. Well, wasn't back when I saw a bit of SVU with my mother in the early aughts, lmao, when the show was still semi-sane. I have no clue what the gently caress SVU is these days besides 'wild'.
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Feb 5, 2023 08:47
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Huh, nice. Had no idea. I was under the impression PIs these days mostly just did 'I think my wife is cheating on me' and insurance related 'we think this guy is faking the severity of his injuries!' stuff. SVU has calmed down a fair bit from “Tonight, Elliot Stabler wrestles a tiger while Capt. Cragen deals with the most special of special victims: a monkey smuggled in a basketball.” It’s still crazy, but it’s crazy in the sense of normal cop show things again, not “turn on the sun” crazy like it was for awhile there. And it’s bad but it’s still not Blue Bloods bad.
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Feb 5, 2023 08:53
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The last really crazy thing I remember from it was the gamergate episode from about 10 years ago. They've done "the long-lost child of a rich family suddenly returns but it's an imposter and they're about to be killed by the other child of the family who secretly killed the missing child and covered it up" three separate times.
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Feb 5, 2023 08:56
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And people say the Yakuza games have tone go all over the place.
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Feb 5, 2023 08:57
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Huh, nice. Had no idea. I was under the impression PIs these days mostly just did 'I think my wife is cheating on me' and insurance related 'we think this guy is faking the severity of his injuries!' stuff.
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Feb 5, 2023 09:17
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Tiggum posted:There has never been a Sherlock Holmes or Philip Marlowe in real life. And Chandler was very specific and emphatic about it. I can't remember the quote offhand, but it's something to the effect that even if there ever was a man like Philip Marlowe he wouldn't be doing a job like that, and if he did, it would rapidly turn him into someone different. Also, that he can't know he's a good guy; any virtues he has should only be apparent to the reader, not him.
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Feb 5, 2023 10:26
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Ghost Leviathan posted:And people say the Yakuza games have tone go all over the place. Play them anyway, a brawler with a deep move set, deep sidequests, and hours of good FMV video on the main storyline is a good thing. Yakuza series owns, start with Yakuza Zero. Just the cutscenes from each one would be good media, and they're interactive!
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Feb 5, 2023 11:14
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Minstrel shows were also pretty popular in Australia and blackface performances continued for a LONG time. Popular 70s/80s/90s TV variety show Hey Hey It's Saturday used to have the occasional blackface act in their 'Red Faces' amateur talent show segment and when they tried to revive the show in 2009 they brought that back too which did NOT go over well I remember when that came out again and there were people trying to defend it on here. Thankfully, even in '09, most folk were telling them to gently caress off.
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Feb 5, 2023 12:15
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Naw they're still super popular, a lot of them just morphed into amateur enthusiasts like Miss Marples, Jessica Fletcher, podcast hosts, etc.. Sherlock Holmes adaptations are still going strong as well. I liked Jessica Jones because she was a hard-drinking PI who had a fictional reason not to be brutally killed by bad guys at the end of every episode. I mean, she comes close, but *powers*.
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Feb 5, 2023 15:12
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Brawnfire posted:I liked Jessica Jones because she was a hard-drinking PI who had a fictional reason not to be brutally killed by bad guys at the end of every episode. I mean, she comes close, but *powers*. Bruce Willis was pretty hardboiled in The Last Boyscout but that film is 32 years old so I guess it doesn't count if we're talking about the current state of the genre. 
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Feb 5, 2023 15:27
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I feel like that all ties into the whole End of History liberal mindset that those jobs don't really matter and it's just a more interesting backdrop than a generic office job. Which at least worked alright for 30 Rock, where the joke is that the not-SNL they work on is almost entirely complete garbage that runs on momentum and star power. we've had this discussion before in this thread about Parks and Rec and its literally not even what the show is about. Leslie, Ben, and Chris Treager's whole thing is that the government has impact and often have to get the public to care about the mundane government operations and their impact.
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Feb 5, 2023 15:50
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Bruce Willis was pretty hardboiled in The Last Boyscout but that film is 32 years old so I guess it doesn't count if we're talking about the current state of the genre. 
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Feb 5, 2023 15:58
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Mooseontheloose posted:we've had this discussion before in this thread about Parks and Rec and its literally not even what the show is about. Leslie, Ben, and Chris Treager's whole thing is that the government has impact and often have to get the public to care about the mundane government operations and their impact. And in the long run yeah, that's the legacy of the show. You think of Leslie Knope's brand of well-intentioned but presumptuous and overtly insulating Hillary Clinton politicking and not the plots where she was given a bad deal no one could finesse their way out of. You think of Nick Offerman's "idealized" form of Libertarian machismo iconography and one-liners and not the character growth of a guy discovering that no man is an island even if he is one of the few who may be able to successfully live as one. You think of Aziz and Donna and fat Crisp Rat and not even a little of what they do on the show, and that is clearly intentional and by-design. And that's a reason for mockery/scorn when the entire premise is in-fact also fighting uphill to try and take responsibility for its premise and consistently failing to do so, especially when you factor in the final season being a literal time-jump featuring the characters at greater levels of security/financial success at the exact wrong time in the zeitgeist for that sort-of retreating presentation, even if it does incidentally feel far more genuine/sincere to what the creators/performers actually experience than anything else on the show. Brooklyn 99 meanwhile doesn't feel nearly as privileged, but it does feature a premise that yeah can't help but drag the performers down under it, to the point where I actually think of how gross the premise of the show is before I even think of the characters or many of the genuinely excellent jokes-- as an aside I think B99 is far and away the funniest actual show of the three. I AM GRANDO posted:The last really crazy thing I remember from it was the gamergate episode from about 10 years ago. They've done "the long-lost child of a rich family suddenly returns but it's an imposter and they're about to be killed by the other child of the family who secretly killed the missing child and covered it up" three separate times. If I were still in my weed phase this would make for a fun stoner marathon.
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Feb 5, 2023 16:31
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Huh, nice. Had no idea. I was under the impression PIs these days mostly just did 'I think my wife is cheating on me' and insurance related 'we think this guy is faking the severity of his injuries!' stuff. Monk had the protagonist be a guy who had too many mental issues (he had a million phobias and extreme OCD) to still be a cop after his wife died (because she helped him manage them) but he was exceptional at being a detective so he ran a 'PI' business with the help of a caretaker, where he would be hired by the cops to help them whenever a crime was difficult The police chief was his old partner who was fond of him even with how frustrating he could be.
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Feb 5, 2023 16:46
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